Thai women bring the bf or husband to social events, shopping, dining and so on.

I doubt if Thai men (bar boys or dancers) when with gay men bring the wife/gf out dining or shopping or socializing.

Maybe I am wrong. You tell me.

You are wrong, Mark.

Of course Thai working women "bring the bf or husband to social events, shopping, dining and so on".

Similarly, of course Thai working men bring their bf/gf/wife/partner "to social events, shopping, dining and so on" including when they are out with their friends (gay or straight). Why on earth would they have any reason not to? In all but a very few cases their bf's/gf's/wives/partners, etc, are well aware of exactly what their opposite numbers are doing; in many cases their opposite numbers are doing exactly the same thing - after all "its only business".

What very few of them are likely to do, male or female, gay or straight, is to bring along their customers as well and to introduce them to their male or female partners. I have known a very few cases where it happens (on a social rather than a sexual level), but in most cases it is something that most working Thais want to avoid if at all possible for what I would have thought were very obvious reasons. Business is business, even when that business is pleasure (for the customer) and business and pleasure seldom mix.

Do guys who pretend to be gay at a gay club but are really heterosexual ever take their wife or GF to a gay club?

My mistake, Mark - I was taking your posts seriously.

It would be just as relevant to ask whether guys who pretend to be straight at a straight club but are really gay would ever take their boyfriends to a straight club.

Do guys who pretend to be gay at a gay club but are really heterosexual ever take their wife or GF to a gay club?

My mistake, Mark - I was taking your posts seriously.

Not a wise move.

Do guys who pretend to be gay at a gay club but are really heterosexual ever take their wife or GF to a gay club?

My mistake, Mark - I was taking your posts seriously.

It would be just as relevant to ask whether guys who pretend to be straight at a straight club but are really gay would ever take their boyfriends to a straight club.

I am trying to be serious but the great gray gay wall of fog sometimes closes in on me.

Since we are talking about P4P clubs perhaps you could tell me what a gay guy pretending to be straight at a straight club is. Because I don't know.

Maybe you could mention why a gay guy pretending to be straight would work at a P4P straight club.

Also I would like to know what a gay guy pretending to be straight would do at a straight P4P club.

Intellectually your statement, “It would be just as relevant to ask whether guys who pretend to be straight at a straight club but are really gay would ever take their boyfriends to a straight club.” makes sense but there aren't any gay guys pretending to be straight working at a straight P4P club in my experience.

What about lesbians in p4p?

Are there 'straight' ones going with female customers?

There are lesbians or bi girls going with men in the industry.

Do guys who pretend to be gay at a gay club but are really heterosexual ever take their wife or GF to a gay club?

My mistake, Mark - I was taking your posts seriously.

It would be just as relevant to ask whether guys who pretend to be straight at a straight club but are really gay would ever take their boyfriends to a straight club.

I am trying to be serious but the great gray gay wall of fog sometimes closes in on me.

Since we are talking about P4P clubs perhaps you could tell me what a gay guy pretending to be straight at a straight club is. Because I don't know.

Maybe you could mention why a gay guy pretending to be straight would work at a P4P straight club.

Also I would like to know what a gay guy pretending to be straight would do at a straight P4P club.

Intellectually your statement, “It would be just as relevant to ask whether guys who pretend to be straight at a straight club but are really gay would ever take their boyfriends to a straight club.” makes sense but there aren't any gay guys pretending to be straight working at a straight P4P club in my experience.

How about a gay guy pretending to be straight at a straight P4P club whose clientelle is women. Would that work, basically a gay guy servicing women P4P clients.

What about lesbians in p4p?

Are there 'straight' ones going with female customers?

There are lesbians or bi girls going with men in the industry.

I don't think we are talking about hens teeth or pigs flying. What you suggest is of course possible but beyond rare. It is like a go go dancer with a golden heart or an honest cop in Pattaya. I am sure they exist although I have never met one.

I am not a big fan or normal. I like to boldly go where no man has ever been before. I like lesbians, butch leather biker lesbians in particular. I also like physical extremes, like a Russian ballet dancer, Hungarian gymnast or sober Irishwomen. I have spent my life searching for the unusual. Last New Years I set about finding two lesbian bar girls for a New Years eve celebration. I know the turf pretty well. It was a very difficult quest. Especially if you know the difference between a real and a fake lesbian. Try to find a couple of Toms to play and you will have an idea.

You mention straight lesbians. What is that?

You also mention there are lesbians going with men in the P4P industry. Sure they tell you they are lesbians but in fact they are asexual females interested in money.

There are no P4P lesbian clubs inhabited by real lesbians. There are lesbian clubs inhabited by real lesbians to be sure but not P4P clubs.

And more importantly my original questions were not answered that is, since we are talking about P4P clubs perhaps you could tell me what a gay guy pretending to be straight at a straight club is. Because I don't know.

Maybe you could mention why a gay guy pretending to be straight would work at a P4P straight club.

Also I would like to know what a gay guy pretending to be straight would do at a straight P4P club.

Do guys who pretend to be gay at a gay club but are really heterosexual ever take their wife or GF to a gay club?

My mistake, Mark - I was taking your posts seriously.

It would be just as relevant to ask whether guys who pretend to be straight at a straight club but are really gay would ever take their boyfriends to a straight club.

I am trying to be serious but the great gray gay wall of fog sometimes closes in on me.

Since we are talking about P4P clubs perhaps you could tell me what a gay guy pretending to be straight at a straight club is. Because I don't know.

Maybe you could mention why a gay guy pretending to be straight would work at a P4P straight club.

Also I would like to know what a gay guy pretending to be straight would do at a straight P4P club.

Intellectually your statement, “It would be just as relevant to ask whether guys who pretend to be straight at a straight club but are really gay would ever take their boyfriends to a straight club.” makes sense but there aren't any gay guys pretending to be straight working at a straight P4P club in my experience.

How about a gay guy pretending to be straight at a straight P4P club whose clientelle is women. Would that work, basically a gay guy servicing women P4P clients.

Yes there are gay guys working at gay bars who service women. But that was not the question. The question was what would a gay guy pretending to be straight at a straight P4P club do? A straight club has women for sale not men. Women don't go into a straight club to buy a guy. They go into gay clubs to buy guys and straight clubs to buy women.

Yes there are gay guys working at gay bars who service women. But that was not the question. The question was what would a gay guy pretending to be straight at a straight P4P club do? A straight club has women for sale not men. Women don't go into a straight club to buy a guy. They go into gay clubs to buy guys and straight clubs to buy women.

I know of two clubs that service women only. Men (regardless of orientation) are barred entry, the exception being the male hosts. Both clubs are P4P. So are these two clubs straight? Yes. So a gay guy at one of these places may well pretend to be straight to get a job as a host and service women. However, I must say that these are a rarity and that your conclusions are probably correct. That is, in general, women would go to gay bars to buy a guy.

As to your question, probably drink and chat with the women workers.

Yes there are gay guys working at gay bars who service women. But that was not the question. The question was what would a gay guy pretending to be straight at a straight P4P club do? A straight club has women for sale not men. Women don't go into a straight club to buy a guy. They go into gay clubs to buy guys and straight clubs to buy women.

I know of two clubs that service women only. Men (regardless of orientation) are barred entry, the exception being the male hosts. Both clubs are P4P. So are these two clubs straight? Yes. So a gay guy at one of these places may well pretend to be straight to get a job as a host and service women. However, I must say that these are a rarity and that your conclusions are probably correct. That is, in general, women would go to gay bars to buy a guy.

As to your question, probably drink and chat with the women workers.

I thought I had been around but I have never heard of such a club in Thailand. In the States sure, Japan maybe but Thailand!

Are you talking about clubs in Thailand?

Yes there are gay guys working at gay bars who service women. But that was not the question. The question was what would a gay guy pretending to be straight at a straight P4P club do? A straight club has women for sale not men. Women don't go into a straight club to buy a guy. They go into gay clubs to buy guys and straight clubs to buy women.

I know of two clubs that service women only. Men (regardless of orientation) are barred entry, the exception being the male hosts. Both clubs are P4P. So are these two clubs straight? Yes. So a gay guy at one of these places may well pretend to be straight to get a job as a host and service women. However, I must say that these are a rarity and that your conclusions are probably correct. That is, in general, women would go to gay bars to buy a guy.

As to your question, probably drink and chat with the women workers.

I thought I had been around but I have never heard of such a club in Thailand. In the States sure, Japan maybe but Thailand!

Are you talking about clubs in Thailand?

There are numerous clubs in Thailand (Bkk, CM, Pattaya, Phuket, Samui, and most of the regional centres, and they have been around for decades), with male hosts for women and many of these venues bar entry to male customers and some bar entry to gatoey.

I have a western gay friend (lives/works in Bkk) who has a 'boyfriend' who is straight and the 'boyfriend' works in such an establishment, and the 'boyfriend is married with a couple of kids.

Many years back I did a consulting project for a very up front wealthy Thai businesswoman who owned one of these venues, under the Windsor Suites hotel (which she owned) on Sukhumvit, but I'm not sure if the venues still operates today. She also told me she owned several more similar venues because they were good business, but I don't know the details of where.

I can recall she mentioned that 99.9% of the customers were wealthy Thai women (rarely foreign women) often with roaming husbands with one or more minor wives. She readily admitted that she was in the same group, and had several young men who 'took care' of her.

Yes there are gay guys working at gay bars who service women. But that was not the question. The question was what would a gay guy pretending to be straight at a straight P4P club do? A straight club has women for sale not men. Women don't go into a straight club to buy a guy. They go into gay clubs to buy guys and straight clubs to buy women.

I know of two clubs that service women only. Men (regardless of orientation) are barred entry, the exception being the male hosts. Both clubs are P4P. So are these two clubs straight? Yes. So a gay guy at one of these places may well pretend to be straight to get a job as a host and service women. However, I must say that these are a rarity and that your conclusions are probably correct. That is, in general, women would go to gay bars to buy a guy.

As to your question, probably drink and chat with the women workers.

I thought I had been around but I have never heard of such a club in Thailand. In the States sure, Japan maybe but Thailand!

Are you talking about clubs in Thailand?

There are numerous clubs in Thailand (Bkk, CM, Pattaya, Phuket, Samui, and most of the regional centres, and they have been around for decades), with male hosts for women and many of these venues bar entry to male customers and some bar entry to gatoey.

I have a western gay friend (lives/works in Bkk) who has a 'boyfriend' who is straight and the 'boyfriend' works in such an establishment, and the 'boyfriend is married with a couple of kids.

Many years back I did a consulting project for a very up front wealthy Thai businesswoman who owned one of these venues, under the Windsor Suites hotel (which she owned) on Sukhumvit, but I'm not sure if the venues still operates today. She also told me she owned several more similar venues because they were good business, but I don't know the details of where.

I can recall she mentioned that 99.9% of the customers were wealthy Thai women (rarely foreign women) often with roaming husbands with one or more minor wives. She readily admitted that she was in the same group, and had several young men who 'took care' of her.

Sorry but I don't believe you. Bangkok I am not that familiar with but Pattaya or Chiang Mai, no way. PM me with an address.

While my experience with sex workers is quite limited and 10 years in the past, I have concluded that straight Thai men were often sex workers and in fact predominate in that line of work. It was so prominent in those days that during the short time I was a sex tourist here, I began to insure, before employing them, that they were gay, as there is a world of difference between gays providing that service and straights ...

Clearly, the more effeminate a gay is makes the same sex experience by a straight and gays on the way out, that much easier and more enjoyable. Caveat, this post contains broad generalities and the dangers that entails.

The "world of difference" depends on your wants, needs & expectations. Certainly the majority at certain bars, e.g.Tawan in Bangkok, are straight.

When I was a bar patron, I would always ensure that whoever I took off was straight, although I was generally sure before asking.

I find it amusing that gays generally want straights to view their non-heterosexual attitudes toward sex as being an acceptable variation from whatever is considered "normal," but then within the queer community they seem to feel everyone must think just as they do. I agree there is a "world of difference," and for me the only satisfactory experiences were with guys who were decidedly straight.

The two long term "friendships" I have had, the second of which continues to this day and is no longer based primarily on sex, have been with Thai males who have wives & children. And I have met their parents, wives and children.

What makes social or sexual experiences "that much easier and more enjoyable," depends on the people involved. If you think gays can only find genuine enjoyment with other gays, that same rigid thinking could be extended to saying Blacks can only be happy with Blacks or Asians with Asians or tall people with other tall people or Jews with other Jews, etc. And if you find it odd that anyone could find genuine enjoyment by breaking out of those xenophobic closets, it is indeed dangerous to make (or impose) those generalities.

And yes, I am responding not only to the person who wrote the quoted comments, but also to other respondents to other threads on other boards who find it shocking that straight guys work in gay bars and/or that anyone labelled gay could find them preferable company to gay "companions."

And along the same line, any time spent looking at gay-oriented porn on the Internet (not that I would ever do that ) must make it obvious that a whole lot of the guys appearing there are definitely not gay and none the less appealing because of it.

Edited February 13, 201115 yr by Suradit

Sorry but I don't believe you. Bangkok I am not that familiar with but Pattaya or Chiang Mai, no way. PM me with an address.

There are, or at least were, a few bars west of Soi Buakow in Pattaya that had/have boys who were primarily available to women. Cartier Boys at one time had a reputation for being a destination for Russian women visiting Pattaya, although I think it became more and more gay oriented because that's where the money is ... and the owner, mamasan is certainly gay.

Sorry but I don't believe you. Bangkok I am not that familiar with but Pattaya or Chiang Mai, no way. PM me with an address.

There are, or at least were, a few bars west of Soi Buakow in Pattaya that had/have boys who were primarily available to women.

That should have been EAST of Soi Buakow (and west of Third Rd) and the "edit" option seems not to be available.

Sorry but I don't believe you. Bangkok I am not that familiar with but Pattaya or Chiang Mai, no way. PM me with an address.

There are, or at least were, a few bars west of Soi Buakow in Pattaya that had/have boys who were primarily available to women.

That should have been EAST of Soi Buakow (and west of Third Rd) and the "edit" option seems not to be available.

Yes, I know where you mean. I lived with a woman who's son worked there and they both lived with me for a while. I know the area quite well. I have to go and eat some sushi to get my brain working better and will comment more later. Thanks for answering.

While my experience with sex workers is quite limited and 10 years in the past, I have concluded that straight Thai men were often sex workers and in fact predominate in that line of work. It was so prominent in those days that during the short time I was a sex tourist here, I began to insure, before employing them, that they were gay, as there is a world of difference between gays providing that service and straights ...

Clearly, the more effeminate a gay is makes the same sex experience by a straight and gays on the way out, that much easier and more enjoyable. Caveat, this post contains broad generalities and the dangers that entails.

The "world of difference" depends on your wants, needs & expectations. Certainly the majority at certain bars, e.g.Tawan in Bangkok, are straight.

When I was a bar patron, I would always ensure that whoever I took off was straight, although I was generally sure before asking.

I find it amusing that gays generally want straights to view their non-heterosexual attitudes toward sex as being an acceptable variation from whatever is considered "normal," but then within the queer community they seem to feel everyone must think just as they do. I agree there is a "world of difference," and for me the only satisfactory experiences were with guys who were decidedly straight.

The two long term "friendships" I have had, the second of which continues to this day and is no longer based primarily on sex, have been with Thai males who have wives & children. And I have met their parents, wives and children.

What makes social or sexual experiences "that much easier and more enjoyable," depends on the people involved. If you think gays can only find genuine enjoyment with other gays, that same rigid thinking could be extended to saying Blacks can only be happy with Blacks or Asians with Asians or tall people with other tall people or Jews with other Jews, etc. And if you find it odd that anyone could find genuine enjoyment by breaking out of those xenophobic closets, it is indeed dangerous to make (or impose) those generalities.

And yes, I am responding not only to the person who wrote the quoted comments, but also to other respondents to other threads on other boards who find it shocking that straight guys work in gay bars and/or that anyone labelled gay could find them preferable company to gay "companions."

And along the same line, any time spent looking at gay-oriented porn on the Internet (not that I would ever do that ) must make it obvious that a whole lot of the guys appearing there are definitely not gay and none the less appealing because of it.

My first question was, 1# How would a gay guy know about straight men who work in gay bars? Do straight men who work in gay bars talk to gay men about their female lovers/wives with any degree of honesty?

I think you have answered that question and answered it very well.

And your answer was a surprise to me. I learn something almost every day.

You said, “When I was a bar patron, I would always ensure that whoever I took off was straight, although I was generally sure before asking.”

I guess it should have been obvious to me by the number of propositions I have received during my life that many gay men like straight guys. I just never thought about it.

I had a gay high school English teacher who asked me one night when I was at his house. I only smiled. It didn't upset me. I really liked the guy. He had introduced me to three major best selling authors (also gay) I owed him a debt of gratitude for the experience of meeting and talking to those people. He never forced anything.

But I had never really realized there were some gay guys who actually preferred straight men. News to me.

Since I was into swinging in the States I do realize there a lot of straight men, married swingers who are also into men but never admit to being bi. Somehow it freaked them out to vocalize in front of their wife something that was obvious as soon as the lights went out.

The rest of your post left me curious. Does the gay population discriminate against or frown upon gays who only like straight men?

Also I have found very few Thai women who would like to have a sexual relationship with a straight man and a gay man. I have only met one and she was the manager of a gay disco.

[Yes there are gay guys working at gay bars who service women. But that was not the question. The question was what would a gay guy pretending to be straight at a straight P4P club do? A straight club has women for sale not men. Women don't go into a straight club to buy a guy. They go into gay clubs to buy guys and straight clubs to buy women.

I know of two clubs that service women only. Men (regardless of orientation) are barred entry, the exception being the male hosts. Both clubs are P4P. So are these two clubs straight? Yes. So a gay guy at one of these places may well pretend to be straight to get a job as a host and service women. However, I must say that these are a rarity and that your conclusions are probably correct. That is, in general, women would go to gay bars to buy a guy.

As to your question, probably drink and chat with the women workers.

I thought I had been around but I have never heard of such a club in Thailand. In the States sure, Japan maybe but Thailand!

Are you talking about clubs in Thailand?

There are numerous clubs in Thailand (Bkk, CM, Pattaya, Phuket, Samui, and most of the regional centres, and they have been around for decades), with male hosts for women and many of these venues bar entry to male customers and some bar entry to gatoey.

I have a western gay friend (lives/works in Bkk) who has a 'boyfriend' who is straight and the 'boyfriend' works in such an establishment, and the 'boyfriend is married with a couple of kids.

Many years back I did a consulting project for a very up front wealthy Thai businesswoman who owned one of these venues, under the Windsor Suites hotel (which she owned) on Sukhumvit, but I'm not sure if the venues still operates today. She also told me she owned several more similar venues because they were good business, but I don't know the details of where.

I can recall she mentioned that 99.9% of the customers were wealthy Thai women (rarely foreign women) often with roaming husbands with one or more minor wives. She readily admitted that she was in the same group, and had several young men who 'took care' of her.

Sorry but I don't believe you. Bangkok I am not that familiar with but Pattaya or Chiang Mai, no way. PM me with an address.

Believe me or not, up to you. Do a little more searching in Pattaya and you will numerous such clubs.

Response to score card.

I guess you did not read my last post. I don't really want to side track the issue. If you will kindly post the location of a club in Pattaya that bars male entry we can be done with it.

Forgive me for being a cynic. But you have never seen the club. You have never been there and you don't know where it is. Right?

I don't know but I've been told the streets of heaven are paved with gold.

Edited February 13, 201115 yr by mark45y

I find it amusing that gays generally want straights to view their non-heterosexual attitudes toward sex as being an acceptable variation from whatever is considered "normal," but then within the queer community they seem to feel everyone must think just as they do. I agree there is a "world of difference," and for me the only satisfactory experiences were with guys who were decidedly straight.

While I agree with the rest of your post, and scorecard's, I don't agree with your view of what gays "generally" consider "normal .... acceptable", etc. This may be the view of a very small number of very prolific posters (and ex-posters) here, who constantly claim to be representative of or to "know" about the gay view, but the reality is that they represent nobody but themselves and their narrow-minded and outdated bigotry.

Most gays, in my experience, are broad-minded enough to realise that men who like straight (or straight-acting) men and men who like lady-boys/katoeys (and I use the term in its generally-recognised broad meaning, not with the very narrow meaning that the same posters give it here) are all part of the "queer community". The days when to be "gay" you had to be either a king or a queen, a clone or a twink, are long gone.

While I agree with the rest of your post, and scorecard's, I don't agree with your view of what gays "generally" consider "normal .... acceptable", etc. This may be the view of a very small number of very prolific posters (and ex-posters) here, who constantly claim to be representative of or to "know" about the gay view, but the reality is that they represent nobody but themselves and their narrow-minded and outdated bigotry.

Most gays, in my experience, are broad-minded enough to realise that men who like straight (or straight-acting) men and men who like lady-boys/katoeys (and I use the term in its generally-recognised broad meaning, not with the very narrow meaning that the same posters give it here) are all part of the "queer community". The days when to be "gay" you had to be either a king or a queen, a clone or a twink, are long gone.

Sweatie Pie clearly just baited me and sadly for all of us, mostly me, it worked. (The flesh is weak.) I don't think anyone, (certainly not me!) speaks for all gay people. That's absurd, how could that even be possible? I won't talk about ladyboys here as I have already spoken on that in the other thread, but I have never, ever, never, ever for one second in my entire life claimed (or thought for one second) that gay men who are attracted to straight men or to gay men who project themselves in stereotypically straight ways for their culture (whatever that is) aren't as gay as any other homo on the block! I humbly request this Sweatie Pie character (who let's face it, is on my case for some sick reason) to desist from putting words in my mouth or imagine thoughts I never had. Congrats on baiting me, but enough is enough of these fantastical fairy tales he is telling. As long as we are on the subject, I don't even really believe there such a real thing as the "queer community" so again don't make up false stories about what I think about who belongs to something I don't even believe in.

It is actually kind of funny, this guy is PROJECTING onto me something he dislikes, but that thing he is imagining is an abstract ILLUSION that has nothing to do with me or my own point of view. So he's arguing with a chimera. I may be a lot of things, and many of them not so great, but I ain't a chimera.

Edited February 13, 201115 yr by Jingthing

I find it amusing that gays generally want straights to view their non-heterosexual attitudes toward sex as being an acceptable variation from whatever is considered "normal," but then within the queer community they seem to feel everyone must think just as they do. I agree there is a "world of difference," and for me the only satisfactory experiences were with guys who were decidedly straight.

While I agree with the rest of your post, and scorecard's, I don't agree with your view of what gays "generally" consider "normal .... acceptable", etc. This may be the view of a very small number of very prolific posters (and ex-posters) here, who constantly claim to be representative of or to "know" about the gay view, but the reality is that they represent nobody but themselves and their narrow-minded and outdated bigotry.

Most gays, in my experience, are broad-minded enough to realise that men who like straight (or straight-acting) men and men who like lady-boys/katoeys (and I use the term in its generally-recognised broad meaning, not with the very narrow meaning that the same posters give it here) are all part of the "queer community". The days when to be "gay" you had to be either a king or a queen, a clone or a twink, are long gone.

Is a gay man liking sex with a straight man the same thing as a straight man liking sex with lesbians? Is the motivation similar? As I see it a gay man would have to alter the sexual orientation of a straight guy like the straight guy would have to alter the sexual orientation of a lesbian. I find it challenging, stimulating, adventurous, even dangerous at times. Kind of a rush.

I do applaud your openness and agree that there are many different kinds of sexual orientation and it is a shame to have only a few people ride roughshod over many who are perhaps not outspoken enough to express a different opinion.

Gay men/boys working in the scene are all 'gay' or 'bi'. Just occassionally a boy will tell you honestly that he is straight.

Once getting into a relationship, you'll find out that your partner suddenly has a sister who'd like to stay in your house or that he has a good friend somewhere.

Gay men/boys working in the scene are all 'gay' or 'bi'. Just occassionally a boy will tell you honestly that he is straight.

Once getting into a relationship, you'll find out that your partner suddenly has a sister who'd like to stay in your house or that he has a good friend somewhere.

Very well and concisely put.

- A link was asked for. I assume you mean to the aborted related discussion on the thread about the murdered man in C.M.

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4198787

(...)

Thanks. What a weird thread.

Is male prostitution legal in Thailand ?

There is no prostitution in Thailand. This thread is theoretical.

Gay men/boys working in the scene are all 'gay' or 'bi'. Just occassionally a boy will tell you honestly that he is straight.

Once getting into a relationship, you'll find out that your partner suddenly has a sister who'd like to stay in your house or that he has a good friend somewhere.

Of course, the "gaydar" is not always reliable, and for some people even less so than for others.

But if you have a close physical encounter with a man, you'll feel it - I'd say. But then, he can be gay in the western sense but at the same time straight. As Pawpcorn pointed out in #6 (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/440563-male-prostitutes-who-service-men-are-often-heterosexual/page__p__4202423#entry4202423) these definitions don't make sense over here.

I heard at least one western social worker giving up on the western-style labels and using the term MSM (men having sex with men) instead.

Gay men/boys working in the scene are all 'gay' or 'bi'. Just occassionally a boy will tell you honestly that he is straight.

Once getting into a relationship, you'll find out that your partner suddenly has a sister who'd like to stay in your house or that he has a good friend somewhere.

Of course, the "gaydar" is not always reliable, and for some people even less so than for others.

But if you have a close physical encounter with a man, you'll feel it - I'd say. But then, he can be gay in the western sense but at the same time straight. As Pawpcorn pointed out in #6 (http://www.thaivisa....23#entry4202423) these definitions don't make sense over here.

I heard at least one western social worker giving up on the western-style labels and using the term MSM (men having sex with men) instead.

What a great post. I LOVE the MSM term, really makes great sense; stop already with the labels, if it feels good, do it, it's "Amazing Thailand" after all!

Ah... Gaydar!!! Great subject! I thought I had Gaydar perfected, in the states (on the West coast...) and it was so simple, there... if a guy looked directly into your eyes for a longer than "normal" period... bingo! Gay! 555+

Here, I couldn't figure it out, for a long time... since any guy, almost, seemed willing to look you directly in the eyes, for extended periods... made no sense! And reality (I know NOW) is that an extended look into the eyes can be interpreted as threatening, or a challenge to fight! (believe it!) Gotta be careful!

I FINALLY figured it out, in that gay men, here, consistently, would "walk" in a slightly different manner than straight men... When a gay man walks... he has "poise", not a "swagger", meaning, if you watch their head and shoulders, you will see a very smooth stable "glide".

I'd put a 100% certification here too, but I KNOW this has to be taken as a generality, lest be "flamed", again, for stating generalities as certainties, lol...

On the same Gaydar subject... if the Thai guy raises his eyebrows at you, for a moment... you've just been propositioned! (OK, a generality!)

All this has made me start to wonder just how I walk!?!? Do I glide, or swagger? Not sure, but I DO think about it now, and truthfully, I think I'm gliding....

And yes, I DO occasionally raise my eyebrows!

Yes, that is normally true. Being a male whore and also having a Thai Girlfriend is normal here in Thailand and abroad. Most of the go-go boys in Silom who do the sex shoes do go home to be with their girlfriends and do have children.

They do it for the money to support their family.

Yes, that is normally true. Being a male whore and also having a Thai Girlfriend is normal here in Thailand and abroad. Most of the go-go boys in Silom who do the sex shoes do go home to be with their girlfriends and do have children.

They do it for the money to support their family.

Yes, I can certainly believe that many men work in order to support their families. Some choose this kind of work, others that. Depends on how you "perform" in each kind of work. Some people prefer offices, others bars, and again others construction sites.