Thai Army Will Retaliate And No Longer Talk With Cambodia: Sansern

[silp1979]

you know how thais treat there neighbours come here and have a look...it it between slave and dirt ( this is not an exaggeration!)

[a99az]

The BBC is reporting that Thai artillery has accidentally destroyed part of the Preah Vihear temple. If true, how typically Thai.

Level the blo... lot and end it. Very stupid.

[drronnie]

the Thai,s are hard headed I am suprised that the not claim Angkor wat as Thai terotery

Dear "GDK",

Please go back in history a few years. You will learn they DID already.

Big problem at that time with Cambodian protests and bombs at the Thai Embassy in Pnom Pen.

There was really anger towards thet Thai at that time.

Actually "they" didn't. The claim was fabricated by Khmer nationalists.

They calimed ath Suvanant Kongying the famous actress said that Angkor Wat belongs to Thailand which was total BS.

[silp1979]

We seem to have quite a few posters on here saying any blame for all this rests with Thailand, the Thai Govt, the PM, the Thai army.

But look at from the point of what each country, Govt has anything to gain or lose.

From what I can see there is no way that Thailand, the army or the Govt can gain anything from starting any fighting.

All are in a no win situation, financialy or politicaly.

On the other hand Cambodia and in particular their PM [dictator] has a lot to gain.

By pretending he is defending the country against the invading Thais he is stirring national feeling in his favour.

Should, as I think is probable, there be the hand and purse of his former advisor behind all of this then he will be getting well rewarded.

It will also give him reason to strengthen the military, new weapons etc. Incase the Thai's invade again.

After all as a dictator the army are his backing against any popular uprising.

From what I read the MOU [signed by whoes govt?] gave the temple to Cambodia but did not define the border around it.

I see nowhere where the Thai Govt has said the temple belongs to Thailand.

However the surrounding land is what is in dispute.

All this started when Cambodia declared the land as theirs and started building roads.

What did you expect the Thai Govt to do say "Take as much as you like".

And If they had said OK you can have the small bit of land, where would it stop? remember part of the sea bed is also under dispute.

The Thai deputy PM has suggested a joint area under the control of both countries for their mutual benefit.

Nowhere did I see a reaction to that from Cambodia.

reality check please !!!

how many times was cambodia humiliated by FM Kasit and and and why did the yellowshirt rally started not long ago and now this, why the 7 thai dwarfs wonderd around in the disputed area???? even with a democrat MP!!!! and not for the first time, come on wake up, military is always happy to fight and gain power from it, soon they will coup again the latest when the reds win a election, power corrrupts and makes ppl blind.

[whybother]

the Thai,s are hard headed I am suprised that the not claim Angkor wat as Thai terotery

Well it was Thailand at one time.

Interesting

Siem Reap {Sorry about the spelling)

is Cambodian for Siam defeated.

that they call a city siam defieted does not mean it was thai before jsut that they win against thais

but i also do not know details

please post with reference links

Angkor Wat was in control of Thailand (Siam) from the 1400's until the French "forced" them out in the 1900's.

[hammered]

We seem to have quite a few posters on here saying any blame for all this rests with Thailand, the Thai Govt, the PM, the Thai army.

But look at from the point of what each country, Govt has anything to gain or lose.

From what I can see there is no way that Thailand, the army or the Govt can gain anything from starting any fighting.

All are in a no win situation, financialy or politicaly.

On the other hand Cambodia and in particular their PM [dictator] has a lot to gain.

By pretending he is defending the country against the invading Thais he is stirring national feeling in his favour.

Should, as I think is probable, there be the hand and purse of his former advisor behind all of this then he will be getting well rewarded.

It will also give him reason to strengthen the military, new weapons etc. Incase the Thai's invade again.

After all as a dictator the army are his backing against any popular uprising.

From what I read the MOU [signed by whoes govt?] gave the temple to Cambodia but did not define the border around it.

I see nowhere where the Thai Govt has said the temple belongs to Thailand.

However the surrounding land is what is in dispute.

All this started when Cambodia declared the land as theirs and started building roads.

What did you expect the Thai Govt to do say "Take as much as you like".

And If they had said OK you can have the small bit of land, where would it stop? remember part of the sea bed is also under dispute.

The Thai deputy PM has suggested a joint area under the control of both countries for their mutual benefit.

Nowhere did I see a reaction to that from Cambodia.

reality check please !!!

how many times was cambodia humiliated by FM Kasit and and and why did the yellowshirt rally started not long ago and now this, why the 7 thai dwarfs wonderd around in the disputed area???? even with a democrat MP!!!! and not for the first time, come on wake up, military is always happy to fight and gain power from it, soon they will coup again the latest when the reds win a election, power corrrupts and makes ppl blind.

you also need to factor in what Hun Sen gets from this. Those on the Thai side of the border always fixate on what is happening in Thailand but there is as much going on in Cambodian politics and has been for the last couple of years including Vietnamese land grabs, opposition leaders forced into exile etc. Sometimes what happens can serve both sides domestically

[OzMick]

Both sides claim the lump of land in question and therefore both sides will say the other trespassed on their territory. Cambodia is militarily weaker and therefore appeals for UN attention. Thailand which is militarily stronger doesnt mind letting it go a little longer. Both sides are using some old mortars and artillery which means shells can easily go astray. The temple which is Cambodian is in the middle of the artillery exchange meaning it will increasingly take hits by accident the longer this goes on. More worryingly than what happens to a piece of stone is that people on both sides are being killed, injured and displaced.

Who is right and who is wrong. Nobody will ever know and the answer is to control the propaganda ie the media stories. Cambodia plays poor little Cambodia bullied by big neighbour but is hamstrung by Hun Sens image. Thailand plays unruly neighbour led by military strongman plays up against civilised member of world community but suffers from its own unruly recent history.

I would not say Cambodia is militarily weaker. Thailand has got old US weapon systems from the 70s. while Cambodia has some of the newest stuff bought from China. Plus Cambodia has 30 year war experience. Thailand has almost none

It has been 20+ years since Viet Nam withdrew - it took them less than 2 weeks to occupy the country. For about 10 years before that the Khmer Rouge hid in the jungle and did very little - murdered a few tourists. Prior to that their, their main achievement was lowering the average IQ of the country. I'm not sure how those experiences will help today.

China has a habit of selling weapons as they are replaced with better gear. The new stuff they keep for themselves - in the VN war they sold a lot of SKS rifles and their older AK-47s. Don't expect the Cambodians to have much better.

[oldsailor35]

Who is damaging the temple? Uhmmm... The Thais are aiming at which direction and the Cambodians are aiming at which direction? The case is closed.

Do you not follow news? its all Cambodian fault. Thai military is a bunch of angels with wings who would never do anything of a kind. They had never and never would shoot at their own people, nor would they harm innocent civilians, nor would they ever miss a target, nor would they ever even consider aiming at the Temple (sarcasm )

And when it comes to controlling (helping) their own people, they only use rubber bullets and tear gas, nothing dangerous like real bullets and tanks.

[oldsailor35]

obviously time for neo con intervention ; bring on "operation temple typhoon"

turn the USS g. washington around

we'll teach them about democracy in sisaket

OMG please please keep the yanks out of it, we have had enough of their meddling. :jap:

[silp1979]

We seem to have quite a few posters on here saying any blame for all this rests with Thailand, the Thai Govt, the PM, the Thai army.

But look at from the point of what each country, Govt has anything to gain or lose.

From what I can see there is no way that Thailand, the army or the Govt can gain anything from starting any fighting.

All are in a no win situation, financialy or politicaly.

On the other hand Cambodia and in particular their PM [dictator] has a lot to gain.

By pretending he is defending the country against the invading Thais he is stirring national feeling in his favour.

Should, as I think is probable, there be the hand and purse of his former advisor behind all of this then he will be getting well rewarded.

It will also give him reason to strengthen the military, new weapons etc. Incase the Thai's invade again.

After all as a dictator the army are his backing against any popular uprising.

From what I read the MOU [signed by whoes govt?] gave the temple to Cambodia but did not define the border around it.

I see nowhere where the Thai Govt has said the temple belongs to Thailand.

However the surrounding land is what is in dispute.

All this started when Cambodia declared the land as theirs and started building roads.

What did you expect the Thai Govt to do say "Take as much as you like".

And If they had said OK you can have the small bit of land, where would it stop? remember part of the sea bed is also under dispute.

The Thai deputy PM has suggested a joint area under the control of both countries for their mutual benefit.

Nowhere did I see a reaction to that from Cambodia.

reality check please !!!

how many times was cambodia humiliated by FM Kasit and and and why did the yellowshirt rally started not long ago and now this, why the 7 thai dwarfs wonderd around in the disputed area???? even with a democrat MP!!!! and not for the first time, come on wake up, military is always happy to fight and gain power from it, soon they will coup again the latest when the reds win a election, power corrrupts and makes ppl blind.

you also need to factor in what Hun Sen gets from this. Those on the Thai side of the border always fixate on what is happening in Thailand but there is as much going on in Cambodian politics and has been for the last couple of years including Vietnamese land grabs, opposition leaders forced into exile etc. Sometimes what happens can serve both sides domestically

sure two dictatorial regimes at work here, no true difference, thailand looks nicer but isn't

[oldsailor35]

How is my post belligerent in anyway what so ever?

Fact 1. Cambodia asked for help from UN and from ASEAN

Facts 2. ASEAN offered to mediate and intervene, Thailand declined

If Thailand was even interested in peace, why would they decline? Why Thailand has not contacted UN asking to stop Cambodia from attacking?

Why Thailand has not written to UN complaining about Cambodia killing and aiming at schools?

If Cambodia indeed did aim at schools and villages and is killing Thai civilians left, right and center and Thailand claims, why would Cambodia seek help from UN and ASEAN, would not those crimes be uncovered and Cambodia would face serious consequences?

Where did Thailand claim that Cambodia are "killing Thai civilians left, right and center"?

figure of speech. Thailand and some posters are claiming that Cambodia is aiming at schools and hospitals and just villages

WOW! and now hospitals.....................there must be dozens of em in that area !

[OzMick]

My research shows, the temple was started around 11th century.

Thailand, before that Siam, was not around then. Even the Kingdom of Ayutthaya starts 1430 or there abouts.

We agree its a Khmer temple, built by Khmers, during the Khmer empire, on Khmer (then) soil.

80% of Khmers reside in Cambodia.

So my question is: Who's name is on the yellow book?

Google Sukhothai - you will be enlightened

[OzMick]

you know how thais treat there neighbours come here and have a look...it it between slave and dirt ( this is not an exaggeration!)

But they are not slaves and free to go home - still, they stay. Ask yourself why? Perhaps they have family memories of people being murdered because they were intelligent enough to wear spectacles, or prefer the better living conditions and wages.

[oldsailor35]

looks, like the conflict is escalating.

thailand should agree to the mediation from the un security council or asean.

both sites should withdraw all military from the border area, as it was proposed already a long time ago by cambodia.

maybe you should move to Cambodia

you seem to support them........

I definately support Cambodia on this one, the Thai army are being unnecessarily aggressive and need to pull back and allow mediators in. Until they do, i will continue to support Cambodia rather than the Thai army.

[MengWan]

Why Thailand has not written to UN complaining about Cambodia killing and aiming at schools?

Easy ...

I suppose because it is USELESS !

Shelling, then complaining is a Khmer Rouge tactic ...

When your neighbour bomb your schools, sending a letter is simply not an appropriate response !

There will never be peace at this border with the HunSen regime in Cambodia, it is time to realize it.

It is indeed no use to talk, because the other side is "playing games".

[termad]

Who has the most to gain from this current situation, and is best friends with one of the principal players? Answer that and you understand what is happening, and why it is happening.

I can't answer that and I therefore don't know what is happening. Could you please tell me?

[whybother]

looks, like the conflict is escalating.

thailand should agree to the mediation from the un security council or asean.

both sites should withdraw all military from the border area, as it was proposed already a long time ago by cambodia.

maybe you should move to Cambodia

you seem to support them........

I definately support Cambodia on this one, the Thai army are being unnecessarily aggressive and need to pull back and allow mediators in. Until they do, i will continue to support Cambodia rather than the Thai army.

Ang the Cambodians aren't being unnecessarily aggressive? Why don't they pull back?

[metisdead]

One post quoting an entire news article was removed due to not making use of "fair use". It is generally accepted, but not written into law, that quoting the first two or three sentences of an article and giving a link to the source is considered “fair use” and not a violation of copyright.

Another post was removed for name calling. It is possible to disagree with someone's opinion without name calling.

[kuffki]

Why Thailand has not written to UN complaining about Cambodia killing and aiming at schools?

Easy ...

I suppose because it is USELESS !

Shelling, then complaining is a Khmer Rouge tactic ...

When your neighbour bomb your schools, sending a letter is simply not an appropriate response !

There will never be peace at this border with the HunSen regime in Cambodia, it is time to realize it.

It is indeed no use to talk, because the other side is "playing games".

Thank you so much for the explanation, and here we go again around the circle, only wish people would actually read the entire threads and not cut out half of the text if they are quoting it.

So please explain to me why Thailand refused help from ASEAN to mediate?

and also explain to me why Thailand declined Cambodian proposal to withdraw troops from both sides for the past 2 years.

If you need FACTS, just read the thread and you will find it.

PS. Thailand has already submitted letter to UN today, Monkey see Monkey do.

Yet still refuses to accept help to mediate.

Cambodia may well be playing games with UN etc, but no one is stopping Thailand from doing the same.

If Thai gov does not have enough brain to act first to make Cambodia look bad, they do not have anyone to blame fot this but themselves.

Edited February 7, 2011 by kuffki

[JamesGoyder]

Sorry I don't have time to read this entire thread. Yesterday Thailand shelled Cambodia for a solid hour and I woudl estimate, although I  wasn't counting, 100+ shells were fired into Cambodian territory. Villagers fleeing the border reported 20+ shells landing in Thailand but I think that what Cambodia fired is a fraction of what Thailand fired, I can't be certain of this though. Vietnamese news showed the damge to Preah Vihear, it is only superficial with bullets knocking out masonry, nothing had actually been knocked down.

Here are a few pics I took today:

A picture of the king lies on the floor after a shell devastated an outbuilding at a Wat near Ban Pum Saron:

A schoolbus full of buffalo joins the exodus:

buffalo.bmp

Thai soldiers on their way towards Preah Vihear:

soldier.bmp

Edited February 7, 2011 by JamesGoyder

[OzMick]

Why are the Thais not asking for mediation? IMHO they feel they are facing an inferior aggressive force and that they will have no problems holding them at the border if necessary. No talkies? Why bother (no reference to the TV poster!) I believe the Cambodians are reacting to PAD pressure on the Thai govt.

If this goes on for a few weeks, who will suffer? Cross border trade is about 1% of Thailand's GDP, a lot bigger slice of Cambodia's. Already one tourist dead at a Cambodian temple - that will do wonders for Angkor attendance, especially if Thailand stops air connections.

Last time I was in Cambodia, the big news was a glut of papaya(?) grown for the Thai bio-fuel plants. Thailand had excess supply and was buying locally in preference (as you do) and the farmers in western Cambodia were screaming. With the border closed, you'll hear them in BKK.

And next time the armchair generals start matching up armies, they may consider logistics. The Thai highways are pretty good, even out that far, and the Cambodian roads.............should that be road?

Yes sailor, Thailand has hospitals close to the border, and bigger better hospitals a short trip away. They also have mental institutions which were a great help to that Pattaya chap.

[oldsailor35]

Both sides claim the lump of land in question and therefore both sides will say the other trespassed on their territory. Cambodia is militarily weaker and therefore appeals for UN attention. Thailand which is militarily stronger doesnt mind letting it go a little longer. Both sides are using some old mortars and artillery which means shells can easily go astray. The temple which is Cambodian is in the middle of the artillery exchange meaning it will increasingly take hits by accident the longer this goes on. More worryingly than what happens to a piece of stone is that people on both sides are being killed, injured and displaced.

Who is right and who is wrong. Nobody will ever know and the answer is to control the propaganda ie the media stories. Cambodia plays poor little Cambodia bullied by big neighbour but is hamstrung by Hun Sens image. Thailand plays unruly neighbour led by military strongman plays up against civilised member of world community but suffers from its own unruly recent history.

I don't think that Cambodia is appealing because they are militarily weaker. Up close and personal like this, the Cambodians can probably give close to as good as they get from the Thais. It just makes their story appear more appealing in the public eye. Thailand might prevail in trying to take 4sq km of land, but can you imagine them trying to explain "why" to their allies. Cambodia doesn't have to play by the rules, they largely have no allies.

NO allies ? .............Have you never heard of Laos or Vietnam, get your facts right . And who does Thailand have...............nobody for sure , and do you think Thailand could depend on Myanmar or Malaysia . :lol: :lol:

[TAWP]

NO allies ? .............Have you never heard of Laos or Vietnam, get your facts right . And who does Thailand have...............nobody for sure , and do you think Thailand could depend on Myanmar or Malaysia . :lol: :lol:

Wait, did you just call Vietnam an ally to Cambodia?

[oldsailor35]

I see the Thaksin blamers are out in force again. This forum never changes.

Better try to blame him than accept the reality of the situation and Thailand's part in it. It's for all intents and purposes a failed state!

Blame Thaksin for the coup, the poor economy, the protests, the junta, the increased military budgets, the corruption in the Democrat-Newin alliance, etc, etc, etc.

Yes OBK i think its about time that the mods had a quiet word with a certain poster in here as every post he has made for the past 4 pages concerns his obvious hatred for Thaksin, in fact its all he has to post about and its getting a pain in the ass whatever side one supports.

[Thai at Heart]

Both sides claim the lump of land in question and therefore both sides will say the other trespassed on their territory. Cambodia is militarily weaker and therefore appeals for UN attention. Thailand which is militarily stronger doesnt mind letting it go a little longer. Both sides are using some old mortars and artillery which means shells can easily go astray. The temple which is Cambodian is in the middle of the artillery exchange meaning it will increasingly take hits by accident the longer this goes on. More worryingly than what happens to a piece of stone is that people on both sides are being killed, injured and displaced.

Who is right and who is wrong. Nobody will ever know and the answer is to control the propaganda ie the media stories. Cambodia plays poor little Cambodia bullied by big neighbour but is hamstrung by Hun Sens image. Thailand plays unruly neighbour led by military strongman plays up against civilised member of world community but suffers from its own unruly recent history.

I don't think that Cambodia is appealing because they are militarily weaker. Up close and personal like this, the Cambodians can probably give close to as good as they get from the Thais. It just makes their story appear more appealing in the public eye. Thailand might prevail in trying to take 4sq km of land, but can you imagine them trying to explain "why" to their allies. Cambodia doesn't have to play by the rules, they largely have no allies.

NO allies ? .............Have you never heard of Laos or Vietnam, get your facts right . And who does Thailand have...............nobody for sure , and do you think Thailand could depend on Myanmar or Malaysia . :lol: :lol:

Considering that you think that Vietnam is an ally of Cambodia and Cobra gold is going on right now in Thailand, I think it is you who need to do some fact checking about whom is allied with whom in this part of the world. Strewth, I never realised that anyone could possibly misunderstand regional history quite as much as your statement suggests.

[oldsailor35]

Mmmm......

Think that the truth will come out one day but not now.

I'm thinking that a war against another nation is a great way to unite a deeply divided country (draw attention away from the domestic problem and get it's people to stick together). That's just a speculation from my side but I'd really wanted to be the fly on the wall on both sides

Yes c64, its known as DESPERATION !

[kuffki]

NO allies ? .............Have you never heard of Laos or Vietnam, get your facts right . And who does Thailand have...............nobody for sure , and do you think Thailand could depend on Myanmar or Malaysia . :lol: :lol:

Wait, did you just call Vietnam an ally to Cambodia?

Vietnam is already Cambodia's 10th largest foreign investor, as well as Cambodia's third strongest trade partner within ASEAN, and the sixth largest amongst all of Cambodia's current trading partners. Cambodia and Vietnam enjoy very complementary economies, along with similar consumer demands and habits, which combined with 1,137 km of border area, results in an incredible potential for substantial bilateral trade growth with vast possibilities for increased mutual benefits.

http://www.asiaecon.org/special_articles/read_sp/12949

[TAWP]

NO allies ? .............Have you never heard of Laos or Vietnam, get your facts right . And who does Thailand have...............nobody for sure , and do you think Thailand could depend on Myanmar or Malaysia . :lol: :lol:

Wait, did you just call Vietnam an ally to Cambodia?

Vietnam is already Cambodia's 10th largest foreign investor, as well as Cambodia's third strongest trade partner within ASEAN, and the sixth largest amongst all of Cambodia's current trading partners. Cambodia and Vietnam enjoy very complementary economies, along with similar consumer demands and habits, which combined with 1,137 km of border area, results in an incredible potential for substantial bilateral trade growth with vast possibilities for increased mutual benefits.

http://www.asiaecon.org/special_articles/read_sp/12949

You fail to understand realpolitik, alright...

Vietnam is NOT an ally of Cambodia. The reality is however that trade and globalization reduces nations will to go at full out war with each-other, both nations have too much to lose. But an ally is NOT the same as trading-partner. An Ally is someone who is committed to join in on your side in an event of war or conflict.

If you two think that Vietnam would come to Cambodia's side in the event there became a full out war they you guys need to brush up on the regions recent history.

Edited February 7, 2011 by TAWP

[Robby nz]

sure two dictatorial regimes at work here, no true difference, thailand looks nicer but isn't

Please Silp could you explain to me how Thailand is a dictatorship?

You see here we have an elected coalition Govt with a PM who was elected by the people of his electorate in the last election.

He was elected by the members of his party to be the party leader and then on the forming of a coalition to govern he became the PM.

News from the other paper:

Defence Minister Prawit Wongsuwon has ordered 2nd Army commander Lt-Gen Tawatchai Samutsakhon to hold another round of talks with Cambodia and find a way to effectively end the border fighting, Defence Ministry spokesman Col Thanathip Sawangsaeng said on Monday.

But will he do it?

However, Lt-Gen Tawatchai said he would not rush to seek talks with Cambodian military leaders because it was clear they were not in complete control of their soldiers.

"Therefore, I will not yet seek a new round of talks, not until they are ready. What we have to do now is to be prepared for any situation," he said.

And:

The source said a son of Hun Sen, Brig Gen Hun Manet, personally commanded the latest fighting around the Preah Vihear temple area.

It was Brig Gen Hun Manet who ordered retaliatory action because Cambodian soldiers suffered heavy casualties in previous clashes. The Cambodian soldiers were ordered to attack on Sunday night, the source said.

"Hun Sen wants the Cambodian people to be satisfied with his son.

"He wants his son to be an army chief despite he fact that Hun Manet is only 33 years old. Hun Manet graduated from the West Point military academy of the United States. He has been tipped to replace his father as the country's military leader in the future," the source said.

[SerpentSea]

We seem to have quite a few posters on here saying any blame for all this rests with Thailand, the Thai Govt, the PM, the Thai army.

But look at from the point of what each country, Govt has anything to gain or lose.

From what I can see there is no way that Thailand, the army or the Govt can gain anything from starting any fighting.

All are in a no win situation, financialy or politicaly.

On the other hand Cambodia and in particular their PM [dictator] has a lot to gain.

By pretending he is defending the country against the invading Thais he is stirring national feeling in his favour.

Should, as I think is probable, there be the hand and purse of his former advisor behind all of this then he will be getting well rewarded.

It will also give him reason to strengthen the military, new weapons etc. Incase the Thai's invade again.

After all as a dictator the army are his backing against any popular uprising.

From what I read the MOU [signed by whoes govt?] gave the temple to Cambodia but did not define the border around it.

I see nowhere where the Thai Govt has said the temple belongs to Thailand.

However the surrounding land is what is in dispute.

All this started when Cambodia declared the land as theirs and started building roads.

What did you expect the Thai Govt to do say "Take as much as you like".

And If they had said OK you can have the small bit of land, where would it stop? remember part of the sea bed is also under dispute.

The Thai deputy PM has suggested a joint area under the control of both countries for their mutual benefit.

Nowhere did I see a reaction to that from Cambodia.

reality check please !!!

how many times was cambodia humiliated by FM Kasit and and and why did the yellowshirt rally started not long ago and now this, why the 7 thai dwarfs wonderd around in the disputed area???? even with a democrat MP!!!! and not for the first time, come on wake up, military is always happy to fight and gain power from it, soon they will coup again the latest when the reds win a election, power corrrupts and makes ppl blind.

And don't forget Panich Vikitsreth, the arrested democrat MP, was the Vice Foreign Minister in the Abhisit cabinet before he get his MP seat in a by election last year and don't forget that a previous government had already a peaceful solution and agreement with Cambodia in that temple issue, an agreement which was targeted by Democrats and yellows.