Formula 1 In 2011

[rixalex]

Rix, we all have our preferred drivers mine has, at least since Lewis made the monkey remark and in him I really hoped we had a winning Brit again, but like perhaps most fans I have several drivers I enjoy watching, Fernando is obviously one and the others are Jenson and of course Sebastan,I have always said he would become a force in the future.

I think if my memory serves me correctly that Lewis and Fernando finished the first season on equal points so I cannot see how Fernando was out driven by Lewis, I have never thought Lewis got prefferential treatment from the team but I think that as he had been around the people for a very long time that perhaps he enjoyed a familiarity that Ferdando didn't.

My own view is that in the past there have been many dubious incidents concerning Fernando, some proven others not.

As far as out qualifying others it matters not, in a lot of cases, at least this years in particular it's the results at the end of the day that count, finishing and getting the points in the bag is what is required.

My problem with Lewis is he does not know when to keep his mouth shut and is always bitching, maybe someone needs to tell him that every driver would like to win, not only him, he appears to have absolutely no respect for other drivers and that half hearted apology to Massa and Maldonado just about sums him up.

Lewis, you can be an exciting driver at times, stop the whinging, control your emotions so you do not make rash mistakes, and yes I for one think you were extremely lucky not to be DQd after the Maldonado incident so remember this, you have to be in it to win it take a good hard long look at yourself.

Broadly speaking, agree with all your points wacky.

As far as the significance of qualifying goes, at the end of the day, as you say, what matters is where you finish in the race. That doesn't however mean that we take nothing from where drivers finish in qualifying, particularly in respect to their team-mates, as far as how good a driver they are. During a race there are many more factors that come into play, particularly tactics, and these factors can play a big part in where a driver finishes, that are often out of their own hands. Qualifying is not without tactics, but less so than in the race. It's much more to do with the driver. In Q3, essentially they all get one or maybe two laps to basically drive as fast as they darn well can. Pressure on the driver is immense. This season, and last season too, i think we have seen an absolute masterclass display from Vettel in consistently going out there and getting the job done in one lap. He has shown his class where Webber has generally failed.

Respectively, i think the same has been true of Alonso and Hamilton. They haven't obviously had the cars to match Vettel in qualifying, but they have convincingly shown that under pressure and with one lap to hang it all out there, they have done better than their team-mates, and often by quite some margin.

[rixalex]

Oh, and by the way, you were correct in stating that Alonso and Hamilton ended up with the same points tally in that first season - 109 i think - so pretty evenly matched i agree. I think though that when put in context of it being Hamilton's debut season and being paired with a two times world champ, it is all the more impressive that he held his own.

And if you care to look at qualifying in 2007 - which i know you don't - the stats show that Lewis's average grid starting position was 2.59. That compares with 3.18 for Alonso. Take from that what you will.

[PomPui]

Does anyone know if the new Senna Movie is coming to Thailand?

Senna Move Site

and

IMDB Senna Movie

"Flawed and reluctant to dig too deep, but also a lyrical, haunting and nerve-wracking portrait: the thinking man's true-life Top Gun (with cars)." Total Film

"A worthy paean to a true talent.: Empire Magazine

Would be a shame not to see this on the big screen.

Cheers

PomPui

[rixalex]

Does anyone know if the new Senna Movie is coming to Thailand?

Would be a shame not to see this on the big screen.

Cheers

PomPui

Would love to see it too. Heard one of the producers being interviewed about it with Mark Kermode from the BBC - he's a movie critic - and it sounds very interesting - check out the BBC podcasts. Also sounds like something that you need to see at the cinema, to get the full effects. Sadly don't expect much chance of it coming to an EGV or a Major near you, anytime soon.

[wackysleet]

Oh, and by the way, you were correct in stating that Alonso and Hamilton ended up with the same points tally in that first season - 109 i think - so pretty evenly matched i agree. I think though that when put in context of it being Hamilton's debut season and being paired with a two times world champ, it is all the more impressive that he held his own.

And if you care to look at qualifying in 2007 - which i know you don't - the stats show that Lewis's average grid starting position was 2.59. That compares with 3.18 for Alonso. Take from that what you will.

Rix, your right, I do not look at the qualifying stats but surely the figures you so acurately quoted {I CHECKED THEM lol} surely endorses what I previously said about qualifying not being so important when you have two drivers ending up with the same total of points.

Please do not misunderstand me,I am fully aware of Lewis Hamiltons strengths, and his weaknesses but I was pointing out in Fernandos case that he was very much the new boy in the team, Lewis had been around the pits and crews for a very long time, he was after all Rons protegee and Fernando was actually coming in cold, but your right about him, two times world champion wondered myself why he did not perform better.

Some time back I made a suggestion about qualifying as in drawing numbers from a hat and having just a few drivers on the track at any one timeeach driver given perhaps 10 minutes to do his hot laps in each session or at least something like that, I can see and understand Lewis getting upset after failing to get more than the one hot lap in after the Perez incident but perhaps it's a case of what goes round comes round, at least with something along those lines it may shake up the front row a bit more.

PS. I am not sure that even if Lewis had got another hot lap in that he would have been on pole, it seems that Sebastion does just enough to get and keep the pole position.

Congratulations to Jenson, he should have won that race except for the stupid tyre changing rule, {where did that come from}?

[wackysleet]

Does anyone know if the new Senna Movie is coming to Thailand?

Would be a shame not to see this on the big screen.

Cheers

PomPui

Would love to see it too. Heard one of the producers being interviewed about it with Mark Kermode from the BBC - he's a movie critic - and it sounds very interesting - check out the BBC podcasts. Also sounds like something that you need to see at the cinema, to get the full effects. Sadly don't expect much chance of it coming to an EGV or a Major near you, anytime soon.

It will probably be in Pantip Plaza by next week, I will look when I get back from Europe on monday, would like to see it myself.

Never was a fan of Senna, talented undoubtedly but such a flawed character and a cheat to boot.

Edited June 2, 2011 by wackysleet

[PomPui]

Does anyone know if the new Senna Movie is coming to Thailand?

Would be a shame not to see this on the big screen.

Cheers

PomPui

Would love to see it too. Heard one of the producers being interviewed about it with Mark Kermode from the BBC - he's a movie critic - and it sounds very interesting - check out the BBC podcasts. Also sounds like something that you need to see at the cinema, to get the full effects. Sadly don't expect much chance of it coming to an EGV or a Major near you, anytime soon.

It will probably be in Pantip Plaza by next week, I will look when I get back from Europe on monday, would like to see it myself.

Never was a fan of Senna, talented undoubtedly but such a flawed character and a cheat to boot.

It's already on Torrent so you can get it for sure but I wanted to go and enjoy this in the cinema.

Cheers

PomPui

[rixalex]

Rix, your right, I do not look at the qualifying stats but surely the figures you so acurately quoted {I CHECKED THEM lol} surely endorses what I previously said about qualifying not being so important when you have two drivers ending up with the same total of points.

To repeat, "yes", finishing position trumps all other stats in terms of who wins what, but that doesn't mean that how a driver performs in qualifying is meaningless.

Some time back I made a suggestion about qualifying as in drawing numbers from a hat and having just a few drivers on the track at any one timeeach driver given perhaps 10 minutes to do his hot laps in each session or at least something like that, I can see and understand Lewis getting upset after failing to get more than the one hot lap in after the Perez incident but perhaps it's a case of what goes round comes round, at least with something along those lines it may shake up the front row a bit more.

Yep, i love your idea. Anything to be honest would be better than what we have at the moment. Hate the format.

PS. I am not sure that even if Lewis had got another hot lap in that he would have been on pole, it seems that Sebastion does just enough to get and keep the pole position.

Tend to agree. Think pole might have been beyond him. Still, he was quickest in Q1 and Q2, so every indication he would have been strong in Q3. That he wasn't is nobody's fault but his and the teams, for risking doing one run. Lewis should have just taken it on the chin, and kept his mouth shut, but as we know, keeping his mouth shut is not his strongest trait.

Congratulations to Jenson, he should have won that race except for the stupid tyre changing rule, {where did that come from}?

Indeed. Why was it possible for the officials that weekend to make up the rules as they went along? Can't fathom it. Vettel got a massive "get out of jail" card, and we were robbed of what could have been an all time classic Monaco race ending.

[PomPui]

I still think Vettel would have hung on to the end. Of course it would have been very interesting to watch.

[rixalex]

I still think Vettel would have hung on to the end. Of course it would have been very interesting to watch.

Perhaps but we have seen what happens this season when these tyres "drop off the edge of the cliff" as they describe it. Drivers become sitting ducks, and i think with the number of laps Vettel had already done on that set, he would have struggled a lot. Enough for Button (and possibly Alonso) to get past? We'll never know.

[PomPui]

I still think Vettel would have hung on to the end. Of course it would have been very interesting to watch.

Perhaps but we have seen what happens this season when these tyres "drop off the edge of the cliff" as they describe it. Drivers become sitting ducks, and i think with the number of laps Vettel had already done on that set, he would have struggled a lot. Enough for Button (and possibly Alonso) to get past? We'll never know.

Yes we will never knows.

But I woud like say Vettel is the class act of field, he is also in the best car. He as through out this season gone further on his tires than most people. We all remember Mansel following Senna around lap after lap, that is would I would have expected to happen.

[wackysleet]

I still think Vettel would have hung on to the end. Of course it would have been very interesting to watch.

Perhaps but we have seen what happens this season when these tyres "drop off the edge of the cliff" as they describe it. Drivers become sitting ducks, and i think with the number of laps Vettel had already done on that set, he would have struggled a lot. Enough for Button (and possibly Alonso) to get past? We'll never know.

Yes we will never knows.

But I woud like say Vettel is the class act of field, he is also in the best car. He as through out this season gone further on his tires than most people. We all remember Mansel following Senna around lap after lap, that is would I would have expected to happen.

I think that Jenson is as good as anybody in nursing his tyres and in this instance was on fresh rubber, watching the race and the general feeling in the pit lane was that Jenson was on target to win, but of course anything can and did happen.

My feeling was that the teams must have known about this because I think Fernando changed tyres too.

[rixalex]

We all remember Mansel following Senna around lap after lap, that is would I would have expected to happen.

Yes we do indeed. Painful watching it was too. But i think in that instance, though Mansell had good out and out speed, they were fairly equally matched in terms of cornering grip, and at Monaco, having an advantage in that department counts for so much more than straight line speed. It's why i think Button would have had a good shot at getting past Vettel. Of course it's all academic now.

[wackysleet]

Just checked up on the rules regarding tyre changes etc; under a red flag. Rule 41 sub 41-4 " Cars may be worked on once they have stopped on the grid or entered the pits but any such work must not impede the resumption of the race".

The exception as also noted under 41-4 is that cars may not be refueled on the grid under a red flag scenario. All other work is permitted

Well I for one never heard of that rule but it still does not explain why the race was not permanently stopped and finished as has happened before when 75% of the race is exceeded or is over the two hour mark and I know that the red flag stoppage time can be added on which could take it over the two hours but in this instance they had exceeded the lap % to call it a day.

Perhaps i'm just cynical or could it have been to pander to the monied crowd?. All in all as far as i'm concerned a totally unsatisfactory end to the race, next time Jenson.

[rixalex]

Just checked up on the rules regarding tyre changes etc; under a red flag. Rule 41 sub 41-4 " Cars may be worked on once they have stopped on the grid or entered the pits but any such work must not impede the resumption of the race".

The exception as also noted under 41-4 is that cars may not be refueled on the grid under a red flag scenario. All other work is permitted

Well I for one never heard of that rule but it still does not explain why the race was not permanently stopped and finished as has happened before when 75% of the race is exceeded or is over the two hour mark and I know that the red flag stoppage time can be added on which could take it over the two hours but in this instance they had exceeded the lap % to call it a day.

Perhaps i'm just cynical or could it have been to pander to the monied crowd?. All in all as far as i'm concerned a totally unsatisfactory end to the race, next time Jenson.

Interesting to hear that stuff about the rules. I don't ever remember on previous occasions the teams being able to work on the cars / change the tyres under the red flag, but then again i guess they are a pretty rare occurrence. Can't understand the reasoning for it. Surely it opens the door for a team to do "a Piquet" and try to deliberately create a red flag situation to help one of their drivers. Not that i think a team would dare to now, but what about even if it wasn't intentional, but the team benefited. Like had it been Webber who had the accident that caused the red flag. I see the potential there for all sorts of problems.

[wackysleet]

Interesting to hear that stuff about the rules. I don't ever remember on previous occasions the teams being able to work on the cars / change the tyres under the red flag, but then again i guess they are a pretty rare occurrence. Can't understand the reasoning for it. Surely it opens the door for a team to do "a Piquet" and try to deliberately create a red flag situation to help one of their drivers. Not that i think a team would dare to now, but what about even if it wasn't intentional, but the team benefited. Like had it been Webber who had the accident that caused the red flag. I see the potential there for all sorts of problems.

Rixalex. Charlie Whitings view is that a red flag is effectively the same as a stationary safety car situation, confused? I am, so draw your own conclusions from that statement, personally I have never seen work carried out behind a safety car stationary or moving .

I just do not understand the logic, guess i must be fick

[rixalex]

personally I have never seen work carried out behind a safety car stationary or moving .

I think you might have unwittingly stumbled there on a great idea. Teams all have an extra F1 car that is for the mechanics to use, so when one of their cars is in trouble, like Hamilton's was with the rear wing falling off, the mechanics jump in and nip out onto track, run along side the damaged car at race speed, one of the mechanics then jumps over, the other guys toss over the necessary tools, and they affect a repair on the move. Great TV and would do wonders for the ratings. You listening Bernie?

[wackysleet]

Interesting to hear that stuff about the rules. I don't ever remember on previous occasions the teams being able to work on the cars / change the tyres under the red flag, but then again i guess they are a pretty rare occurrence. Can't understand the reasoning for it. Surely it opens the door for a team to do "a Piquet" and try to deliberately create a red flag situation to help one of their drivers. Not that i think a team would dare to now, but what about even if it wasn't intentional, but the team benefited. Like had it been Webber who had the accident that caused the red flag. I see the potential there for all sorts of problems.

Rixalex.

I found it very hard to believe what Piquet Jnr did even under orders from his team principal but fortunately those same events turned and bit them both in the arse, personally I think your right that it's very unlikely to happen again, i'm hoping there is not another Flabio out there lurking.

The scenario you raise could of course happen but under the circumstances I think most unlikely, the case in question could possibly happen with the same setup as then ie, a top driver Fernando and a novice as in Piquet feeling the need to obey his principal in the hope of securing his seat but that setup does not really exist now most teams having drivers of similar ability, but saying that there is always the old chestnut of team orders as in everyones favourite drivers, Massa and Alonso but then again perhaps the rules will be changed again in that respect.

[Mosha]

Unfortunately the track for years has not being able to provide a sporting spectacle. Almost impossible to pass on with the modern cars. Make the drivers go around in peddle cars, or remove it from the point scoring.

[soihok]

How many forum members will go to ( or have been to ) a F1 race this year?

I may go to the Singapore F1 night race, but I am going to the Malaysian Motogp

[wackysleet]

Unfortunately the track for years has not being able to provide a sporting spectacle. Almost impossible to pass on with the modern cars. Make the drivers go around in peddle cars, or remove it from the point scoring.

Mosha. I am in Monaco at the moment, I came over for the Spanish race and this one and have to agree, it's never really been a place one could overtake easily and very difficult to see a lot of the racing but the atmosphere here was something else and the excitement in the pits was electric with people thinking that Jenson was going to win, unfortunately not to be.

Monaco is more than just a Formula1 race for a lot of the people who go, the principality is like nothing else on the calender with incredibly beautiful women all over the place so I think with the experience we have of previous races here then it's not the most exciting venue but then the women were something else.

I am staying on here to go to see the 24hr race at Le Mans and then hopefully the Tour De France so should be back for the rainy season.

David.

[wackysleet]

Just heard that Bahrain is back for the 30th October, unfortunately, hope the teams have the balls to say something, more tear gas fired off after more tension today.

[wackysleet]

How many forum members will go to ( or have been to ) a F1 race this year?

I may go to the Singapore F1 night race, but I am going to the Malaysian Motogp

I have been to two this year and if possible would like to go to Silverstone.

[Mosha]

As for Bahrain, and the teams deafening silence. One has to suspect they are waiting for government health warnings, on what has already being called a day of rage.

[rixalex]

A record 21 races provisionally pencilled in for 2012! Great stuff!!

BAHRAIN - 11 March

AUSTRALIA - 18 March

MALAYSIA - 1 April

CHINA - 8 April

SOUTH KOREA - 22 April

TURKEY* - 6 May

SPAIN - 20 May

MONACO - 27 May

CANADA - 10 June

UNITED STATES - 17 June

VALENCIA, SPAIN - 1 July

BRITAIN - 15 July

GERMANY - 29 July

HUNGARY - 5 August

BELGIUM - 2 September

ITALY - 9 September

SINGAPORE - 30 September

JAPAN - 14 October

INDIA - 28 October

ABU DHABI - 11 November

BRAZIL - 25 November

* Subject to confirmation

[Mosha]

OK is this just coincidence or am I a cynic? (Actually I am lol)

Sir Jackie Stewart supports FIA's Bahrain decision

RBS announce expansion in Bahrain

Google RBS Bahrain

[rixalex]

OK is this just coincidence or am I a cynic? (Actually I am lol)

Sir Jackie Stewart supports FIA's Bahrain decision

RBS announce expansion in Bahrain

Google RBS Bahrain

You are thinking too mut Mosha. I'm sure these two snippets of information are completely unrelated. FIA is far too honourable to put business and money before people's lives.

[wackysleet]

OK is this just coincidence or am I a cynic? (Actually I am lol)

Sir Jackie Stewart supports FIA's Bahrain decision

RBS announce expansion in Bahrain

Google RBS Bahrain

You are thinking too mut Mosha. I'm sure these two snippets of information are completely unrelated. FIA is far too honourable to put business and money before people's lives.

Not forgetting Bernies statement that the decision to race in Bahrain has nothing to do with money, now all it needs is for some teams to say it's too dangerous to go there and participate, similar scenario as teams boycotting the race in the states that time, too dangerous.

[Mosha]

My money is on the various governments

[PomPui]

How many forum members will go to ( or have been to ) a F1 race this year?

I may go to the Singapore F1 night race, but I am going to the Malaysian Motogp

I went to the Malaysian F1 this year and it took hours to get back downtown to the hotel. I am going to the Singapore F1 race. I would have gone to china if it was not so expensive.

Edited June 4, 2011 by PomPui