3G Network Good To Go In 2 Months: CAT Chief

[ThaiLife]

Could some expert telecom/IT person explain in lay terms what, if any, affect all this will have on me currently using CAT CDMA as my only internet service provider?

I am no expert on the subject, but like you I use CAT CDMA to connect to the Internet.

Last week I tried to get a network router that would accept my CAT CDMA air card, which CAT said would be suitable for the purpose. Two frustrating days later they then said I need the new CAT CDMA EC150 air card, which is 3G compatible and gives download speeds of up to 3.1Mbps - but that will not be available in Udon for about a year!

So far as I can see from the pictures of the device, it does not have an antenna socket. That screws me as I am too far from the transmitter to get a signal without an antenna.

Hi

Have a look here at the post about the CAT CDMA USB modem - VW140 , its got an external antenna socket

My link

and here at the CAT web site ..

My link

and here , where its also on sale , along with the Cradlepoint MBR 1000 Router and external antenna connectors and its shows

the EC150 USB modem with an external antenna connection ?

My link

an alternative cheaper router may be this one ...

My link

with more info here ...

My link

TL :jap:

[jfchandler]

Thanks for that link, Tywais... That site looks like a wealth of info on 3G and related subjects, including device compatibility... You do have to register with the web site in order to fully view their documents/reports.

Some stats of HSPA worldwide.

Support for all 3G spectrum bands is strongly evident in the survey, not only for the widely-deployed 2100 MHz frequency band, but also for 850 MHz band operation in support of mobile broadband markets in Australia, the Americas, and Asia, plus HSPA devices operating in the 1900 MHz and AWS bands as also used in the Americas. The significantly improving availability of UMTS 900 (HSPA) devices is also highlighted, with 526 products now launched (more than double the number of products in the market one year ago).

gsacom

Edited February 16, 2011 by jfchandler

[jfchandler]

Looks like Thailand isn't even on the map, so to speak, in terms of the next generation LTE services.... But lots of other places around us certainly are....

[AgentSmith]

It appears to be the HSPA will be on 850MHz. My HTC Desire supports HSPA on 900/2100 MHz. Wonder what the percentage of phones in Thailand support HSPA on 850MHz?

If this is true then I'm lucky with the Asian version of my motorola defy as it is 850/2100. You could check though because if you're lucky then the desire supports more than just the official frequencies. In that case it only takes a piece of software. Check the desire division at forum.xda-developers.com for all the info you need.

Is there a list with provinces where hspa will be available?

[AgentSmith]

It appears to be the HSPA will be on 850MHz. My HTC Desire supports HSPA on 900/2100 MHz. Wonder what the percentage of phones in Thailand support HSPA on 850MHz?

Well, I guess we can probably expect to see True selling their own phones then. I seem to remember a rather successful telecoms company in Thailand using that business model about 15 years ago in Thailand who used IMIE coding to prevent access so they could charge a fortune for phones.

iPhone is 850 compliant as are many many other phones. I believe 900 Mhz for 3G is the band for which there is little to know hand sets available, and requires custom made ($$) hand sets. Telstra has implemented 850 very successfully too which has further reach than 2100 Mhz.

"Little to know hand sets available?" Yeah right! You clearly don't know too much about good smartphones. My super popular Samsung Galaxy S (which I like a lot!) runs on 900/2100MHz and so do many many others like HTC etc. Actually the iPhone is one of the few handsets that needs 850MHz.

The brand, model and popularity say very little about the frequencies a device supports. It mostly depends on WHERE you bought it. As I mentioned before my motorola defy is 850/2100. Bought it here in thailand. This same model in europe is 900/2100 whilst the south american version is even 850/1700/2100. Often phones can have their supported frequencies changed with only a slight change in their software (easily done with smartphones, except the iphone of course ). Keep in mind though the hardware optimizations for certain frequencies so reception on the added frequency might not be as good as on 'native' phones.

Edited February 16, 2011 by AgentSmith

[fatfather]

It appears to be the HSPA will be on 850MHz. My HTC Desire supports HSPA on 900/2100 MHz. Wonder what the percentage of phones in Thailand support HSPA on 850MHz?

If this is true then I'm lucky with the Asian version of my motorola defy as it is 850/2100. You could check though because if you're lucky then the desire supports more than just the official frequencies. In that case it only takes a piece of software. Check the desire division at forum.xda-developers.com for all the info you need.

Is there a list with provinces where hspa will be available?

Same question: Is there a list with the 25 provinces where HSPA will be available?

[Tywais]

In general, the various UMTS bands are deployed as follows:

* Band I (W-CDMA 2100) in Europe, India, Africa, Asia, Australia (all carriers' metropolitan networks), New Zealand (ITU Region 1) and Brazil (part of ITU Region 2)

* Band II (W-CDMA 1900) in North America and South America (ITU Region 2).

* Band IV (W-CDMA 1700 or Advanced Wireless Services) in the United States (T-Mobile USA) and Canada (WIND Mobile, Mobilicity and Vidéotron)

* Band V (W-CDMA 850) in Australia (Telstra NextG Network), Thailand (True move and DTAC), New Zealand (XT Mobile Network), Brazil, Canada, the USA, Guatemala, Costa Rica, Venezuela, other parts of South America, Israel[2], parts of Asia (ITU Region 2 and ITU Region 3), Poland (Sferia/Aero2 - hspa+ internet only)

* Band VIII (W-CDMA 900) in Europe, Asia, Australia (Optus and Vodafone regional/country 3G networks), New Zealand (ITU Region 1 and ITU Region 3), Thailand (Advanced Info Service) and Venezuela (Digitel GSM)

Source: Wiki

[Cheops]

The brand, model and popularity say very little about the frequencies a device supports. It mostly depends on WHERE you bought it. As I mentioned before my motorola defy is 850/2100. Bought it here in thailand. This same model in europe is 900/2100 whilst the south american version is even 850/1700/2100. Often phones can have their supported frequencies changed with only a slight change in their software (easily done with smartphones, except the iphone of course ). Keep in mind though the hardware optimizations for certain frequencies so reception on the added frequency might not be as good as on 'native' phones.

Hi AgentSmith, you are correct for your phone, but I'm also correct for my phone (SGS), since the SGS uses the same band in Europe as here in Thailand (900/2100MHz). Of course this model is made in a ton of other versions for the US where everything is carrierbased . By the way, my phone supports 4 bands (850/900/1800/2100), but for the 3G radio it supports 900/2100. Actually I have just flashed a new ROM in my SGS and could choose also which modem to use (got it from Rom Kitchen). Do you think the 900/2100 is really hardware based in the Galaxy S or can I use a different modem piece of software in a ROM to use 850MHz?

[colinthailand20005]

The point I was making is that you said True 3G has only been in Pattaya a few months, but it has been there for at least 1 year+

and do you think that is a valid contribution to the topic?????

I think if you write any post they should be accurate, and your post was not accurate, if you cannot accept that don't post anything else!

[iks77]

basically i would love to see TOT increase the coverage of their 3G Network. Wherever i tried that so far it was very stable and fast with speed greater than 4 Mbit.

Regarding 4G (LTE) you have to keep in mind that this is mostly used for stationary usage as a alternative to landline communication. For example in germany the providers only offer it as a fixed connection at your house until now to enable broadband internet in areas without ADSL coverage (yes, also in germany there are many white spots without ADSL....)...

Chris

[BlackJack]

Confused

"witness the next step of DTAC - 3G"

and the story is about TRUEMOVE

I have a DTAC account for my Nokia 3g phone

I have TOT for Internet in Pattaya and

TRUE home for internet in Bangkok

I paid the extra 100 baht for TRUE WIFI

So what do i need to access this proposed new 3G system and from what company

Confused

[jfchandler]

Confused

"witness the next step of DTAC - 3G"

and the story is about TRUEMOVE

I have a DTAC account for my Nokia 3g phone

I have TOT for Internet in Pattaya and

TRUE home for internet in Bangkok

I paid the extra 100 baht for TRUE WIFI

So what do i need to access this proposed new 3G system and from what company

Confused

It depends on what 3G bands your particular Nokia phone can receive signal on...

Right now, DTAC has basically no 3G service.

In Bangkok, people wanting 3G have the choice of True on 850 Mhz or TOT/IMobile on 2100 Mhz...

In Pattaya, people in covered areas can access True on 850 Mhz...but no 3G from TOT there as yet.

[AgentSmith]

The brand, model and popularity say very little about the frequencies a device supports. It mostly depends on WHERE you bought it. As I mentioned before my motorola defy is 850/2100. Bought it here in thailand. This same model in europe is 900/2100 whilst the south american version is even 850/1700/2100. Often phones can have their supported frequencies changed with only a slight change in their software (easily done with smartphones, except the iphone of course ). Keep in mind though the hardware optimizations for certain frequencies so reception on the added frequency might not be as good as on 'native' phones.

Hi AgentSmith, you are correct for your phone, but I'm also correct for my phone (SGS), since the SGS uses the same band in Europe as here in Thailand (900/2100MHz). Of course this model is made in a ton of other versions for the US where everything is carrierbased . By the way, my phone supports 4 bands (850/900/1800/2100), but for the 3G radio it supports 900/2100. Actually I have just flashed a new ROM in my SGS and could choose also which modem to use (got it from Rom Kitchen). Do you think the 900/2100 is really hardware based in the Galaxy S or can I use a different modem piece of software in a ROM to use 850MHz?

Well I think you are going to be happy when you read this:

http://androidforums.com/samsung-galaxy-s/258859-how-enable-850mhz-3g-network-frequency-your-samsung-i9000-galaxy-s.html

Might work with other Android phones too.

[Cheops]

The brand, model and popularity say very little about the frequencies a device supports. It mostly depends on WHERE you bought it. As I mentioned before my motorola defy is 850/2100. Bought it here in thailand. This same model in europe is 900/2100 whilst the south american version is even 850/1700/2100. Often phones can have their supported frequencies changed with only a slight change in their software (easily done with smartphones, except the iphone of course ). Keep in mind though the hardware optimizations for certain frequencies so reception on the added frequency might not be as good as on 'native' phones.

Hi AgentSmith, you are correct for your phone, but I'm also correct for my phone (SGS), since the SGS uses the same band in Europe as here in Thailand (900/2100MHz). Of course this model is made in a ton of other versions for the US where everything is carrierbased . By the way, my phone supports 4 bands (850/900/1800/2100), but for the 3G radio it supports 900/2100. Actually I have just flashed a new ROM in my SGS and could choose also which modem to use (got it from Rom Kitchen). Do you think the 900/2100 is really hardware based in the Galaxy S or can I use a different modem piece of software in a ROM to use 850MHz?

Well I think you are going to be happy when you read this:

http://androidforums.com/samsung-galaxy-s/258859-how-enable-850mhz-3g-network-frequency-your-samsung-i9000-galaxy-s.html

Might work with other Android phones too.

Thanks a lot for the link! Tried it, can indeed see all the options, but cannot select the 850

I guess that indeed there are 2 main versions of the Galaxy S and the international version doesn't have the 850MHz 3g radio.

By the way, the Moto Defy is also quite nice! Although I really like my 4" super amoled screen. GPS sucks though from my Galaxy, which I 'fixed' by using an external bluetooth receiver (which works great!).

[MaiChai]

Am I reading this right: Real Future will build the network and lease it to CAT. CAT will then lease it to True Move. Arn't Real Future and True Move the same company (or group). Stinks of corruption to me. Can't see how all this reselling several times through different companies will benefit the consumer. Sounds more like a gravy train to skim off percentages to different groups and ultimatly the consumer pays? What value does CAT add?

[volk666]

Hold on, folks,

CAT had rights to 800MHz frequency, which is used all over the world by CDMA. 3G on CDMA is called EVDO, while HSPA mentioned by True is evolution of GSM networks, and GSM networks have never ever run on 800MHz and there are no phones that support it.

850MHz is the frequency owned by True GSM network and they will land in a very deep deep doodoo if they try to offer 3G on that frequency using CAT's old towers.

I have no idea how True will solve that problem. They might offer specially built phones that can use HSPA on 800MHz or there might be some other solution, but they surely are not installing 850MHz equipment on CAT towers - it doesn't make any sense, they have plenty of their own 850MHz towers, why buy CAT's?

Edited February 16, 2011 by volk666

[notime]

Oh fantastic news .. but will this 3 G network work in Samui during the power cuts?

[jamora]

The point I was making is that you said True 3G has only been in Pattaya a few months, but it has been there for at least 1 year+

and do you think that is a valid contribution to the topic?????

I think if you write any post they should be accurate, and your post was not accurate, if you cannot accept that don't post anything else!

I think that your post is beyond the pale.

....... probably one of the most anal comments for some time looks like you need to get life and an opinion

Posting incorrect information is pale!!! I found his post useful. This is a thread about the launch of 3G network in Thailand, and knowing where you can receive it now seems relevant! And it has been a wonder to me how they have had the network in Bangkok, Hua Hin, Pattaya etc. for over a year, but never really seemed to move any further until now?

[jfchandler]

850MHz is the frequency owned by True GSM network and they will land in a very deep deep doodoo if they try to offer 3G on that frequency using CAT's old towers.

I have no idea how True will solve that problem. They might offer specially built phones that can use HSPA on 800MHz or there might be some other solution, but they surely are not installing 850MHz equipment on CAT towers - it doesn't make any sense, they have plenty of their own 850MHz towers, why buy CAT's?

Indeed, it gets pretty complicated... But as best as I can piece together the different reports, True does indeed intend to use their partnership with CAT to expand their 850 Mhz 3G network for GSM phones, and also in some fashion take over the Hutchinson CDMA network and service in outlying provinces, though I haven't been able to tell just what exactly they're planning to do with that.

I've heard and seen nothing about any planned 800 Mhz service or anything about special phones for that band. As far as I've seen, everything in the works right now is either 850 (True/CAT) or 2100 Mhz (TOT/IMobile/Samart)...

Separately, I believe Mai Chai pretty well summed up the essence of the True-CAT business agreement, at least so far as it's been made public thus far. One True subsidiary installs and leases the 3G equipment to CAT, then CAT turns around and gives True what I believe is supposed to be about 80% usage of the network for another True subsidiary, with CAT retaining a 20% usage share to sell or resell on its own.

From one of the news reports I read the other day interviewing the CEO of CAT, I believe he was saying CAT will do about a 20% markup on the service (money into its pocket) before passing it along to the True subsidiary to sell to the public.

For all kinds of reasons, it's a rather "interesting" business arrangement that certainly befits Thailand's style of doing things.

[volk666]

In yesterday's paper there was brief mention that True got hands on 15MHz of 850MHz spectrum. Perhaps there's some overlap with 800MHz, but it is all very confusing to me.

True already got 850MHz itself, and it can't launch 3G service for legal reasons, only as a trial.

Now they got CAT's network, and CAT actually owns both 800 and 850, always had, but its CDMA network operated only on 800. True's subsidiaries Real This and Real That (can't rememebe the names) inherited the rights to 3G from CAT/Hutch network, and they intend to use this right on any frequency they want?

That is just asking for legal trouble. They can take care of competitors - Dtac just got approval from CAT for commercial implementation of 3G on another chunk of 850MHz and AIS will probably get something, too, but it's all very very shaky. Anyone can file a lawsuit in this country and stop Sun from rising, if they want to, and all kinds of colored people are out in the streets watching for any sign of collusion.

The deal might blow in everybody's faces pretty soon.

[AgentSmith]

The brand, model and popularity say very little about the frequencies a device supports. It mostly depends on WHERE you bought it. As I mentioned before my motorola defy is 850/2100. Bought it here in thailand. This same model in europe is 900/2100 whilst the south american version is even 850/1700/2100. Often phones can have their supported frequencies changed with only a slight change in their software (easily done with smartphones, except the iphone of course ). Keep in mind though the hardware optimizations for certain frequencies so reception on the added frequency might not be as good as on 'native' phones.

Hi AgentSmith, you are correct for your phone, but I'm also correct for my phone (SGS), since the SGS uses the same band in Europe as here in Thailand (900/2100MHz). Of course this model is made in a ton of other versions for the US where everything is carrierbased . By the way, my phone supports 4 bands (850/900/1800/2100), but for the 3G radio it supports 900/2100. Actually I have just flashed a new ROM in my SGS and could choose also which modem to use (got it from Rom Kitchen). Do you think the 900/2100 is really hardware based in the Galaxy S or can I use a different modem piece of software in a ROM to use 850MHz?

Well I think you are going to be happy when you read this:

http://androidforums.com/samsung-galaxy-s/258859-how-enable-850mhz-3g-network-frequency-your-samsung-i9000-galaxy-s.html

Might work with other Android phones too.

Thanks a lot for the link! Tried it, can indeed see all the options, but cannot select the 850

I guess that indeed there are 2 main versions of the Galaxy S and the international version doesn't have the 850MHz 3g radio.

By the way, the Moto Defy is also quite nice! Although I really like my 4" super amoled screen. GPS sucks though from my Galaxy, which I 'fixed' by using an external bluetooth receiver (which works great!).

You better read again because I think the solution is given in the last reaction on that blog.

[MaiChai]

True gets their own network! CAT gets 20% for doing sweat FA because they have the license. How did they get the license? Because they put the injunction in forcing the commercial auction to be cancelled and because of some past right to the frequency which was granted to them long before 3g existed or more importantly the commercial opportunity of 3g existed! Thus do they have more right to it than anyone else?

I see this problem as a result of weak government and vested interests in the government ensuring True get a big piece of the action. We live in a modern commercial world and mobile phone networks should be run by companies that can fairly compete against each other. This deal unfairly gives the whole of Thai 3g to one company, with a chunk of revenue going to CAT organisation to keep the Thai elite oiled. Other operators will be at an unfair advantage since they will be at the mercy of True.

I see this development being as bad as some of the things Taksin did to give advantageto AIS and his other communications companies.

On a positive note True is a well organised and very technically competent company. However the lack of competition will lead to abuses.

[MaiChai]

On Andriod, the radio image is seperate from Andriod OS. This allows manufacturers to substitute different radios for different regions/countries while keeping the Andriod OS the same. The radio is the component that provides the telephony; eg whether its UMTS or CDMA and what frequencies are supported. You can check the image name in About phone->Baseband version. Chances are you can replace it with a different frequency one, proving the hardware is the same!

I believe the frequencies this CAT service will work on have not been specified. Thus I think we cannot assume its 850mhz? I would have thought its more likely to be 2100?

Edited February 16, 2011 by MaiChai

[Tywais]

I believe the frequencies this CAT service will work on have not been specified. Thus I think we cannot assume its 850mhz? I would have thought its more likely to be 2100?

As I have posted previously, there are several news releases out that specifically state 850 MHz. As far as I know the 2100 licenses are still in the air due to the issues at NTC. Another News Clipping on the announcement here.

More here:

Why 850, American-style 3G? Why now? Why True? Blame it on the new Frequency Allocation Act and its failure to separate the state owned enterprises (CAT and TOT) from the revenue share drug that has been keeping them alive.

The day the Frequency Allocation Act was ratified by parliament, the order books for 850 MHz 3G equipment went through the roof according to one domestic telecommunications equipment manufacturer. Everyone was hovering around 850 3G but nobody was committing themselves as they wanted a proper licence at a much lower cost. Why pay 30 percent to CAT when a telco can pay 6 percent to the National Telecommunications Commission? Only when it was clear that the NTC’s auction was not happening any time soon, did things get into gear on 850.

Why True? Why now?

[smedly]

actually most modern brands have this configuration which will leave many with no access

2G NetworkGSM 850 / 900 / 1800 / 1900 3G NetworkHSDPA 900 / 2100 HSDPA 850 / 1900 / 2100 - for the Americas

[AgentSmith]

Reception wise 850 would be much better than 2100, especially indoors. Back in europe I often had problems receiving 3G inside since it's all 2100 band. slowly abandoning gsm there and adopting 900-umts would be ideal especially in urban areas. So you better check for a 850-fix for your phone before you start shouting 2100 too loud!

[Deeral]

This thread is now firmly in the territory of nerd-dom.those who "know" everything but understand nothing.

It's all very well debating what models work on which frequency but it has little bearing on the real issues, which are quality of service and the overwhelming evidence that the reason this is so tardy in its inception is that the project is beset with nepotism, graft and corruption. As such it doesn't auger well for any service on any frequency.furthermore the sheer fact that the nerds can debate frequencies shows that the service is ill thought out even before it gets off the ground.

Thailand is late with 3G - but the way this service has been chopped and changed would indicate that when it finally becomes available on a national basis, it will be crap.anyone who has used the AIS 3G internet service will know that the pre-pay set up is a joke - it is almost impossible for a customer to top up and the packages offered are unreliable and irrational.

unless these products can be accessed and used by "Jo Average" they are useless.

Another thought to bear in mind is that It is also quite possible that in the light of the role played by the "Social Media" in Egypt, iran Tunisia Bahrain etc., that the government will find further ways to clip the service's wings so it doesn't get into the hands of the "bootless and unhorsed" who might cause problems on the streets of the capital.

[jfchandler]

Deeral, I think there's merit in some of what you say about how and why Thailand finds itself in its current situation...

However, that being said, a lot of people here in the TV threads are simply looking for practical information about what it will mean for them and their ability to use their current mobile phones and what to consider when buying new ones...which people do with some frequency....not to mention which companies to choose as mobile service providers.

It might have been the province of nerds in the past. But these days, it's a concern for everyday people, because a lot of everyday people want to use their mobile phones to access the Internet. And unfortunately, the haphazard and start and stop manner in which Thailand has pursued 3G has left a lot of people confused and not sure where things are heading.

[MaiChai]

Thanks for the clarification on the frequency.

This does severely limit handset choice. Imobile and Wellcom have a couple of Andriod phones that will work on 850Mhz, but they are not up to the spec of the market leaders like HTC, Samsung, etc, which don't support this frequency. I have a Wellcom A88; its ok, but my 3 year old HTC Dream has a better LCD and it does have occasional glitches, unlike a leading brand. These phones are rebranded from Chinese manufacturers.

I guess we can conclude that 3g is going to be a mess in Thailand for the foreseeable future. At least the major operators are trying to work around it the best they can.

[AgentSmith]

This thread is now firmly in the territory of nerd-dom.those who "know" everything but understand nothing.

[yada yada]

Well thank you for calling me nerdy because of my willingness to help others on a very real practical issue. Guess I could say this thread is now firmly in the territory of the people that want to feel so much better than others. Oops I just did. Did you now climb a rock that is high enough for you? Do you actually realize where you post your crap? This is not some symposium for the elite. The internet is too crowded with narcissists as it is. Why don't you all just start your own site and fight your way to alpha male position with each other? Then you don't bother the more pragmatic part of the world so much anymore. Everybody happy!

It might have been the province of nerds in the past. But these days, it's a concern for everyday people, because a lot of everyday people want to use their mobile phones to access the Internet. And unfortunately, the haphazard and start and stop manner in which Thailand has pursued 3G has left a lot of people confused and not sure where things are heading.

For now it's safe to say that at least with gprs/edge technology we can count on mobile internet connections. And although not as fast as hspa edge is also officially recognized as 3G. Just not many people know that but this means we actually have been having 3G connections in this country for quite some time already.

Edited February 16, 2011 by AgentSmith