3G Network Good To Go In 2 Months: CAT Chief

[HerbalEd]

Just in time.... every other country is moving to 4g now.

Some are moving but very slowly.

[KKK]

I don't think I'll be moving to 3G as it all seems such a mess to me. I bought a 3g phone (Samsung) in Thailand and now it seems it may not be compatible as it's 900/2100 not 850/whatever. And with the rest of the world moving to 4g it seems another case of "Thailand too little too late". When the Thai government, phone providers, and phone manufacturers all get together timely and provide a service for the people without ripping them off I might join in. Reckon I'll have a long wait though....8G anyone!!!

[volk666]

If True indeed is going to use 850 MHz frequency than it basically means they bought CAT/Hutch network only for the towers, which is not a bad idea because towers need land and need building, so they save themselves some time and trouble.

On the other hand, the whole 3G delay here was because neither CAT nor TOT allowed 3G service on companies existing frequencies - 850MHz for True, 900 for AIS, and Dtac has also some of 850.

Now, in a sudden change of heart, they gave True the right to run 3G AND sold them the towers, and announced the same permission for Dtac.

There will be losers here, and they will cry foul. AIS, is one, TOT is another - it has its own plan to let other companies to use its 1900MHz, legal 3G, and then some consumer advocates will jump in, too - because of the 2100MHz auction going down the drain as no one will need it anymore, or could afford it after doing 3G on 850-900.

2100MHz is a "public interest" project, anyone can sue anyone else on the "public interest" pretext. They'll probably start with suing the government for delinquency first.

[jfchandler]

Actually, according to the database at the website gsmarena.com, there are 160+ phones now out on the market that are sold at least somewhere (though not necessarily Thailand) with 3G band coverage of both 850 and 2100 Mhz on the same model phone. The list seems to include at least some phones from all of the major manufacturers.

Sometimes, the web site will indicate where a particular version is available, such as 850 Mhz from the U.S. Sometimes it just lists the different band versions of a particular model that are available, without saying where... Here are screen shots of some of the dual 850/2100 Mhz models....

GSM Arena's phone finder feature, which allows you to search by model specs, is available here:

[Deeral]

Deeral, I think there's merit in some of what you say about how and why Thailand finds itself in its current situation...

However, that being said, a lot of people here in the TV threads are simply looking for practical information about what it will mean for them and their ability to use their current mobile phones and what to consider when buying new ones...which people do with some frequency....not to mention which companies to choose as mobile service providers.

It might have been the province of nerds in the past. But these days, it's a concern for everyday people, because a lot of everyday people want to use their mobile phones to access the Internet. And unfortunately, the haphazard and start and stop manner in which Thailand has pursued 3G has left a lot of people confused and not sure where things are heading.

If there is a problem with frequencies then what is needed is a stick or address with a list of phones, frequencies, networks and compatibilities.

THe problem here as you may have noticed is the "advice" on frequencies is now jumbled beyond comprehension....a symptom of nerds is that they are in fact particularly bad at relating their topic to the real world or or communicating it to others

[Deeral]

This thread is now firmly in the territory of nerd-dom.those who "know" everything but understand nothing.

[yada yada]

Well thank you for calling me nerdy because of my willingness to help others on a very real practical issue. Guess I could say this thread is now firmly in the territory of the people that want to feel so much better than others. Oops I just did. Did you now climb a rock that is high enough for you? Do you actually realize where you post your crap? This is not some symposium for the elite. The internet is too crowded with narcissists as it is. Why don't you all just start your own site and fight your way to alpha male position with each other? Then you don't bother the more pragmatic part of the world so much anymore. Everybody happy!

It might have been the province of nerds in the past. But these days, it's a concern for everyday people, because a lot of everyday people want to use their mobile phones to access the Internet. And unfortunately, the haphazard and start and stop manner in which Thailand has pursued 3G has left a lot of people confused and not sure where things are heading.

For now it's safe to say that at least with gprs/edge technology we can count on mobile internet connections. And although not as fast as hspa edge is also officially recognized as 3G. Just not many people know that but this means we actually have been having 3G connections in this country for quite some time already.

QED

[jfchandler]

I think I just provided that in my post re GSM Arena and their phone search feature above....

If there is a problem with frequencies then what is needed is a stick or address with a list of phones, frequencies, networks and compatibilities.

[alant]

big win for nokia?

[jfchandler]

Indeed, Nokia seems to do better than most of the other major manufacturers, particularly in their higher end phones, of providing broad 3G band compatibility...

However, now that they're phasing out Symbian OS and moving to Windows Phone 7 as their OS in the coming year, it will be interesting to see how their future models deal with that issue... I'm assuming the broad 3G band compatibility will continue..but at this point who knows...

I'd been wanting for a long time to buy a Nokia E71 phone, but it's not readily available in a dual 850/2100 Mhz version.... So I've never pulled the trigger on that one, because I'd decided already that whatever phone I got needed to be 850 and 2100 Mhz 3G capable...

Unfortunately, the E72, which has broader 3G compatibility, hasn't had the same quality reputation as the E71... However, the latest N8, E5, C6 and C7 models all seem to fit the bill...

[billd766]

If True indeed is going to use 850 MHz frequency than it basically means they bought CAT/Hutch network only for the towers, which is not a bad idea because towers need land and need building, so they save themselves some time and trouble.

On the other hand, the whole 3G delay here was because neither CAT nor TOT allowed 3G service on companies existing frequencies - 850MHz for True, 900 for AIS, and Dtac has also some of 850.

Now, in a sudden change of heart, they gave True the right to run 3G AND sold them the towers, and announced the same permission for Dtac.

There will be losers here, and they will cry foul. AIS, is one, TOT is another - it has its own plan to let other companies to use its 1900MHz, legal 3G, and then some consumer advocates will jump in, too - because of the 2100MHz auction going down the drain as no one will need it anymore, or could afford it after doing 3G on 850-900.

2100MHz is a "public interest" project, anyone can sue anyone else on the "public interest" pretext. They'll probably start with suing the government for delinquency first.

The two most expensive parts of any network in any country are infrastructure.

#1 is acquiring the land and building rights to put up a tower and building along with power from the main supply somewhere.

My wife has a small AIS site (outdoor so no building) on her land with a tower and mains electricity from the roadside 30 metres away. She gets about 30k baht rental a year for that.

#2 is the fibre optic links from the site back to a switching centre somewhere and from there into the main trunk routes back to Bangkok and then out to the world at large. When I started building networks back in 1987 that link was actually a phone line which went on to a microwave link and eventually now the fibre optics.

Therefore if you already have #1 then re-equipping and updating is easy as the equipment gets more compact with every generation.

However if you have to start from new it takes a fair time to process.

#1 First network planning has to decide what they want and where

#2 Next comes the site surveys

#3 If the site is available and OK then site acquisition takes it on

#4 Legal services get involved for leases and planning permission

#5 If all that is OK then the site goes out to contract for physical infrastructure, tower, power etc.

#6 When that is done the RF installation team go in, build the equipment racks etc, antennas and feeders

#7 The RF guys finish all that get the site downloaded by the switch, fire it up and test it then it goes live and a new site is added to the network.

In addition to all that in a completely new network the owners usually put the job out to tender to one of the big telcos such as Nokia, Hua Wei, Alcatel, Lucent etc who then sub contract it on, so in addition to all of that most of the time you need the main contractor plus the network operators input at a lot of the stages.

The time span varies dependent on the skills of the various crews, the country you are in and somewhere along the line Sod's law will be waiting as well.

I had 25 years experience across 20 odd countries and operators and I am soooooo glad that I am now retired and don't have to put up with that crap any longer.

Edited February 17, 2011 by billd766

[volk666]

Maybe it's a good deal for True, to buy an existing network and convert it to their own needs, but it's not a deal breaker - the country was supposed to easily absorb at least three more nationwide networks from the scratch and True has planned for it all along, until now.

When the 2100MHz frequency finally goes to auction, will True even have funds left to bid for the license? And if it gets a license, will it convert the 850MHz they are building now to 2100 again? Will it have money for that?

And what happens to 800Mhz license they got when they bought CAT's network? If they convert the towers to 850Mhz what will happen to eight hundred thousand CAT users?

And the first, most important question, is still unanswered - where and how True got the right to start 3G on 850Mhz? It didn't have it a month ago and 850 wasn't part of the deal in any way. Or was it? Did Hutch/CAT network had rights to some 850 they didn't use? Who gave it to Hutch in the first place if they were not using it?

[KKK]

big win for nokia?

And for Samsung Thailand too (in baht terms but not reputation) who sold me a 900MHZ 3G phone that probably won't work here. Anybody think I have some redress with them?

I used to say "Never a Nokia" now I say "Samsung Sucks"

[jfchandler]

You could always hold out hope for future AIS 3G service on that band.... but... that might not be such a great bet under the current circumstances....

[MaiChai]

Your quote of 160+ phones is not quite right. Firstly the phones have to be available here and there is the of rebranding a handset in different countries (Wellcom A88 exists as about 15 different phones across the world; basically rebadged Commtiva z71). ZTE Blade is also another cheap phone with a good spec that has been rebranded across the globe.

I think the trick is not to spend too much on a phone, which is why the Wellcom/Imobiles make sense. My experience from working in the mobile business is that a better phone will always come along, they loose money faster than cars, and they only last a year or two. Thus why pay too much?

Edited February 18, 2011 by MaiChai

[jfchandler]

Mai Chai, I think I pretty clearly said, in the prior post you're referring to, that that number of 850/2100 Mhz 3G phones were available somewhere, though not necessarily in Thailand...

Even so, given that most of the folks here on ThaiVisa are either expats living in Thailand or visitors to Thailand, there's not much stopping most farang readers here from acquiring a mobile from their home country, if they desire to do so.

[Flapman]

Could some expert telecom/IT person explain in lay terms what, if any, affect all this will have on me currently using CAT CDMA as my only internet service provider?

I am no expert on the subject, but like you I use CAT CDMA to connect to the Internet.

Last week I tried to get a network router that would accept my CAT CDMA air card, which CAT said would be suitable for the purpose. Two frustrating days later they then said I need the new CAT CDMA EC150 air card, which is 3G compatible and gives download speeds of up to 3.1Mbps - but that will not be available in Udon for about a year!

So far as I can see from the pictures of the device, it does not have an antenna socket. That screws me as I am too far from the transmitter to get a signal without an antenna.

The Cradlepoint MBR900 is a good router with a USB modem port. It works fine with the C-motech CCU-680 modem from CAT, which has a socket that accepts a "pig-tail" which connects onto the cable running up to a Yagi antenna. 50 Ohm cable is the correct spec: Times Microwave Systems LMR-400 cable is a good spec low-loss flexible coax UV resistant cable.

[jfchandler]

Got an emailed TOT 3G newsletter today (in Thai) that appears to list the areas where they'll first be expanding their 3G coverage on the 2100 Mhz band outside of Bangkok...

The list in the email was: Chonburi, Rayong, Surat Thani, Songkhla, Phuket, Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Lampang, Phitsanulok, Nakhon Ratchasima, Khon Kaen, Udon Thani and Nong Khai.

I couldn't find a web version of the same document, and the email didn't appear to have any links, so here's a capture of it...

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[rreddin]

Could some expert telecom/IT person explain in lay terms what, if any, affect all this will have on me currently using CAT CDMA as my only internet service provider?

I am no expert on the subject, but like you I use CAT CDMA to connect to the Internet.

Last week I tried to get a network router that would accept my CAT CDMA air card, which CAT said would be suitable for the purpose. Two frustrating days later they then said I need the new CAT CDMA EC150 air card, which is 3G compatible and gives download speeds of up to 3.1Mbps - but that will not be available in Udon for about a year!

So far as I can see from the pictures of the device, it does not have an antenna socket. That screws me as I am too far from the transmitter to get a signal without an antenna.

I have EC122 with attenna. It claims to deliver 3.1 , but it depends how busy the network is. Mine came from Sakon Nakhon 3months ago. I'm about 1.5 klms from transmitter. I'm surprised what they have told you about Udon. I'm halfway between Udon and Sakon Nakhon.

CAT's Khon Kaen office confirmed this again a couple of days ago. No CAT 3G in Udon for at least 9 months. However, for me and the other 10 CAT CDMA users in the village, that has been rendered academic as CAT will shortly be installing a base station with cable connections to the existing users.

[Deeral]

I would be seriously concerned that this hastily introduced service will be any good.

I've had the AIS 3G internet service for several years now and whilst the actual service did exist, the customer service and usage side was - and still is completely hopeless.

I used a pre-pay option and quite frankly it couldn't be more awkward to top up.

THe options offered were ex;pensive and difficult to work out - of course what had happened was they has the technical side but spent no thought at all on what the publc - their customers - might need.

TOT are particularly bad at CS so I see no reason why any 3G service they offer would be ay good at all in this respect.

You can have the best technology in the world, but if you as a customer can't use it, you might as well throw it in the bin.

[ES1]

Just in time.... every other country is moving to 4g now.

Not really. They announce things but it's mostly propaganda. In the US they have been annoucing that 4G is less than a year away for the last 5 years. Sprint is the only one with a live network in several cities and they are still no where near full coverage across the country.

Edited February 26, 2011 by ES1

[ES1]

Could some expert telecom/IT person explain in lay terms what, if any, affect all this will have on me currently using CAT CDMA as my only internet service provider?

No effect. The 2 networks run in parallel using the same towers and antennas and they won't phase out CDMA for years.

Edited February 26, 2011 by ES1

[ES1]

It appears to be the HSPA will be on 850MHz. My HTC Desire supports HSPA on 900/2100 MHz. Wonder what the percentage of phones in Thailand support HSPA on 850MHz?

LOL.... just like democracy 'Thai-style' is a flawed and fundamentally corrupt concept, it would appear that 3G will also be a similarly flawed and fundamentally corrupt 'Thai-style' abomination with only vested interests making money. Anyone hoping to independently leverage their investments in smart phone technology will be taking a big dry one up the arse. Again!

Wasn't 850 one of the spectrum of choice for GSM? Can GSM and HSPA happily co-exist in the same spectrum?

Most 3G phones now a days are Quad Band GSM and dual band HSPA. If you bring a 3G phone from another country you will need to make sure it uses the proper bands of HSPA. In the US for example, AT&T uses 850/1900 and T-mobile uses 1700/2100.

So if they are using 850 in Thailand an unlocked At&t 3G phone should work. You can also use these phones on any of the GSM providers since they all support quad band GSM.

I use a north american 3G HSPA phone in Thailand but only in GSM mode. It does support 850/1900 HSPA so it will work on any provider that switches on HSPA on those frequencies.

Edited February 26, 2011 by ES1

[Jezz]

Could some expert telecom/IT person explain in lay terms what, if any, affect all this will have on me currently using CAT CDMA as my only internet service provider?

No effect. The 2 networks run in parallel using the same towers and antennas and they won't phase out CDMA for years.

Thanks for that.

[jfchandler]

I use a north american 3G HSPA phone in Thailand but only in GSM mode. It does support 850/1900 HSPA so it will work on any provider that switches on HSPA on those frequencies.

Your comment above really buries the fact that Thailand appears to be heading toward two different national HSPA mobile data networks, the CAT/True one on the 850 Mhz 3G band, and the TOT/IMobile one on the 2100 Mhz 3G band...

It's easy to buy 3G phones abroad that offer either 850/1900 HSPA or 900/2100 HSPA bands (apart from what they offer on the regular GSM-voice bands)... It's much less easy to find tri or quad band 3G phones that cover both the 850 and 2100 Mhz 3G bands to ensure the broadest 3G coverage options in Thailand.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

The best deal for a compatible modem is the Huawei E160. Available here(for UK customers only) for 500 baht(£9.99) Only a few left.

Black here.

[ES1]

I use a north american 3G HSPA phone in Thailand but only in GSM mode. It does support 850/1900 HSPA so it will work on any provider that switches on HSPA on those frequencies.

Your comment above really buries the fact that Thailand appears to be heading toward two different national HSPA mobile data networks, the CAT/True one on the 850 Mhz 3G band, and the TOT/IMobile one on the 2100 Mhz 3G band...

It's easy to buy 3G phones abroad that offer either 850/1900 HSPA or 900/2100 HSPA bands (apart from what they offer on the regular GSM-voice bands)... It's much less easy to find tri or quad band 3G phones that cover both the 850 and 2100 Mhz 3G bands to ensure the broadest 3G coverage options in Thailand.

Which is more or less what I said.