tim armstrong Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I have wondered if this was happening for a while, and have no reason to doubt the following story. It's a concern for anyone sending their Thai partner alone through the Oz embassy visa application process. I was talking to a Thai lady market trader recently who has a thriving local business. She is about to visit for the first time her boyfriend in Australia. They are engaged, and he has just gone back there. Last week she went with her details to the Oz embassy to get a tourist visa, and was redirected up the road to the Thai company who now processes applications. She was told what the usual tourist visa fee would be, and thought it was perfectly NORMAL! to be asked for an additional 'under the counter' 2,000 baht to get it processed quickly ! Note, this is not just any visa company, this is the official Oz government contractor. I told her that Australians don't generally do business this way, and that she should either herself or via the boyfriend go to the Embassy and report the incident. Maybe she will or not, but I guess she will have some fear of being refused a visa if she makes a fuss. As I said, I have no reason to doubt her story, so travellers to Oz beware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madivad Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I have heard about this external company being used before. But we have always done ours by post. And never had any problems (with regards to fees). Being an Aussie (like yourself I'm guessing), I would like to think that if this is the case then someone at the embassy would be 'interested' in this, and would follow it up. A scary part about this is that if she doesn't / didn't pay it then by definition does it mean that she is placed right at the bottom? Or even in a new pile that means she doesn't get processed for a month? Hmmm interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallmeScooter Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 This is a very tough / unfortunate spot for her. The right thing to do - of course - is make a formal statement regarding the incident. But the smart line to take? I'm not so sure. If no one else has made any complaints or if the person in question is not on their radar already, I'm not sure how it could possibly play out well for her. Maybe the 3rd or 4th complainant without proof, and things get hot under the collar for the scoundrel. But if she's the first....? Tough spot. Could she make an in-confidence submission to the Embassy? Surely they would appreciate the delicacy of her position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Maybe time for the hidden camera and microphone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDAUSSIE Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 The best thing for her or anyone else in this situation is to carry a small tape recorder and tape the conversation, then contact the AFP they have someone stationed at every Australian Embassy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gburns57au Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 The best thing for her or anyone else in this situation is to carry a small tape recorder and tape the conversation, then contact the AFP they have someone stationed at every Australian Embassy Thats illegal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gburns57au Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Maybe time for the hidden camera and microphone Thats illegal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gburns57au Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) The right course of action is to report it to the Embassy. Her Application could then be lodged at the Embassy not the VFS Office to avoid any comebacks Edited February 16, 2011 by gburns57au Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Croc Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 The best thing for her or anyone else in this situation is to carry a small tape recorder and tape the conversation, then contact the AFP they have someone stationed at every Australian Embassy Thats illegal Yes, report it and let Immigration Internals conduct their own investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) Thats illegal ... Maybe -- but in the Thai Criminal Code (as amended 2003) Title XI is Offense Against Liberty and Reputation and it ain't there while the use of various recording methods in the course of defamation is specifically mentioned. ... or else the OZ Embassy guys could go in there and ask 'You guys aren't asking for bribes, are you?' Edited February 16, 2011 by jazzbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gburns57au Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Thats illegal ... Maybe -- but in the Thai Criminal Code (as amended 2003) Title XI is Offense Against Liberty and Reputation and it ain't there while the use of various recording methods in the course of defamation is specifically mentioned. ... or else the OZ Embassy guys could go in there and ask 'You guys aren't asking for bribes, are you?' Do you have a link to that Title XI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 http://www.thailaws.com/ Criminal Code, B.E. 2499 (1956) as amended until Code (No. 17), B.E. 2547 (2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gburns57au Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) http://www.thailaws.com/ Criminal Code, B.E. 2499 (1956) as amended until Code (No. 17), B.E. 2547 (2003) I dont believe that reporting an employee for asking for a bribe would be considered defamation. Section 328 appears to be more about use of various means of recording used in the commission of the offence of defamation. For instance, If I sent a hand drawn picture of you depicting you as a lazy drunk to a third party, then I have defamed you. (unless of course you are a lazy drunk.... ) Edited February 16, 2011 by gburns57au Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I said that the only place in the entire Thai Criminal Code that it mentions recording is in the context of defamation; it does not seem to say there or anywhere else that a hidden recording is de facto illegal as you claimed in your above post especially when trying to document some other malfeasance or possible criminal act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gburns57au Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I said that the only place in the entire Thai Criminal Code that it mentions recording is in the context of defamation; it does not seem to say there or anywhere else that a hidden recording is de facto illegal as you claimed in your above post especially when trying to document some other malfeasance or possible criminal act. Sorry if I misread your post... However it is still illegal to record someone without their knowledge unless approval has been given by the proper authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 So much for 60 Minutes: Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) Visa applications for Australia are handled by VFS Global who run the: Australia Visa Application Centre Thai CC Tower Unit 2 & 3, 34th Floor 889 South Sathorn Road, Yannawa Bangkok 10120 the same international company used by the UK to handle visa applications at Regents House. I looked at their corporate website for their policy on ethics and could only find this http://www.vfsglobal...CoreValues.aspx (IMHO a bit weak in substance). Edited February 16, 2011 by Basil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystwoodcol Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I have had that experience before with my g/f but she got around it with some sweet Thai talk and a cake. I for one greatly disagree with the OZ embassy sub contracting a very important function like this. She could get put to the bottom of the pile if she complains its happened before. A problem now arises what to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 A problem now arises what to do? Sting operation ... just don't tell Mr. Burns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProThaiExpat Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Having dealt with VHS for years, I find them fairly efficient and trouble free. I would suggest your Thai friend use the courier service that is available in BKK and elsewhere to transport her passport to VHS, yes she would be paying for the courier service as an extra cost, under 1000Baht, but that way she could avoid the counter person she encountered for the bribe. Once she got her visa, she could then send a confidential report to the Embassy in the mail, clearly identifying the addressee as "Only to be Opened by", head of security office, internal security officer or the like. She would have to have the name of the person soliciting the bribe, date of visit etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I am not Australian but as VHS Global also handles visa applications for the UK I am most concerned this practice will spread and hope it is stopped immediately. VHS Global as I understand is a international company that is an off shut of Kuoni a Swiss travel company, what concerns me most is it seems to hold a monopoly on this sort of service with many countries now out sourcing to it and without viable competition respectable governments will not have the option to take their business elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doggie888888 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I have read and re-read the OP...I am not sure if the phrase "under the counter" is accurate or just someone's interpretation of the situation. In some urgent cases, there is an extra fee for "fast tracking". If your friend did indeed pay the extra, it should be on an official receipt...then there is nothing untoward, is there? If she paid the extra and it was not recorded, then this would qualify as an "under the counter" fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Maybe time for the hidden camera and microphone Great idea but: Security Regulations Security Notice for Visiting VFS Australia Visa Application Centre Due to security reasons the following items will not be permitted inside the Application Centre or stored in the premises. All battery operated or electronic gadgets such as cameras, audio/video cassettes, compact discs, MP3's, floppies, laptops, or portable music players. All bags such as travel bags, back packs, briefcases, suitcases, leather / jute / cloth bags and zip folders. Only a plastic bag containing your application related papers would be permitted. Sealed envelopes or packages. Any inflammable item such as matchboxes/ lighters/ fuel etc. Any sharp objects such as scissors, pen knives or nail filers. Weapon or weapon like objects or explosive material of any kind. The list provided above is not finite. Other items may be prohibited based on Security Staff's discretion. From the VFS website http://www.vfs-au.net/securityregulations.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinique Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I am not Australian but as VHS Global also handles visa applications for the UK I am most concerned this practice will spread and hope it is stopped immediately. VHS Global as I understand is a international company that is an off shut of Kuoni a Swiss travel company, what concerns me most is it seems to hold a monopoly on this sort of service with many countries now out sourcing to it and without viable competition respectable governments will not have the option to take their business elsewhere. Sorry maybe a bit off topic but... What I would like to know is why the governments are outsourcing in the first place. Not enough staff at the Embassies??? 1.They are supposed to be saving costs after the financial crisis - surely engaging this company is an extra cost. 2. What about security of personal information ? Which used to go only to your government now being in the hands of outsiders. 3. In countries like Thailand where privacy/corruption/scams can and do occur why would home governments even dream of outsourcing? No doubt some consultant has also been paid afortune to come up with this one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattayaParent Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Maybe time for the hidden camera and microphone Great idea but: Security Regulations Security Notice for Visiting VFS Australia Visa Application Centre Due to security reasons the following items will not be permitted inside the Application Centre or stored in the premises. All battery operated or electronic gadgets such as cameras, audio/video cassettes, compact discs, MP3's, floppies, laptops, or portable music players. All bags such as travel bags, back packs, briefcases, suitcases, leather / jute / cloth bags and zip folders. Only a plastic bag containing your application related papers would be permitted. Sealed envelopes or packages. Any inflammable item such as matchboxes/ lighters/ fuel etc. Any sharp objects such as scissors, pen knives or nail filers. Weapon or weapon like objects or explosive material of any kind. The list provided above is not finite. Other items may be prohibited based on Security Staff's discretion. From the VFS website http://www.vfs-au.ne...egulations.html Some mobile 'phones have a recording function, voice or video or both. Nobody would think anything was odd if the 'phone was being held in someones hand while the voice recorder is running unkonwn to the 'victim' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Maybe from the VFS website it should just say the following electronic devices are not allowed because we do not want you recording any offers of bribery ... All the same security measures and probably then some are in place at the US Embassy on wireless ... if pen and paper are still allowed maybe you can just ask the bribe offerer to sign a confession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinique Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 You may also find that Mobile phones are ("at the discretion of security officers") also not allowed in the VFS center. This has been the case, at times, when entering the Australian Embassy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7by7 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 As already mentioned by others, VFS is a respectable company that handles visa applications for many countries (including, but not limited to; the UK, the USA and Australia) worldwide. It should be stressed that they merely process the paperwork and play no part in the decision making process. If anyone has reason to believe that an employee of VFS is acting in any underhand or illegal manner or guilty of any activity such as that described in the OP, then they should immediately report the individual to VFS and their embassy. I do not know the procedure for Australian visas but as doggie888888 says, could this simply have been a standard fast tracking fee? BTW, I have no connection with VFS or any of it's associated or subsidiary companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Just to clarify for us Yanks, according to the VFSGlobal website, VFS only handles administrative back-office 'non-judgmental' diplomatic processing for US Embassies/Consulates in India, Nigeria, and Malaysia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7by7 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Indeed, poorly worded on my part. VFS are a global company, but do not handle applications for all their clients in every country. See Our Clients. My point being that they are a reputable company and would not risk damaging that reputation (and losing business) for a few local bribes. Any attempt by a VFS employee to extract same should be reported to them and the embassy concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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