13 Girls Rescued From Prostitution After Raid On Karaoke Bar In Chiang Mai's Muang District

[Nisa]

A friend of mine who runs an HIV foundation in Bangkok, says she has proof that the number of women per capita involved in the sex industry is significantly higher in the US, than in Thailand. The only difference being that it is far more honest, and open here in thailand, and it is nearly entirely underground (with the exception of strip bars, and the porn industry) in the US. People have no idea how many millions of women are involved in the US, as the massage business, the escort business, the chiropractic office brothels, etc, etc, are all done in secret.

That's interesting. I knew this sort of thing was going on under our collective noses in America, but I had no idea to what extent.

Really? LOL. Prostitution in the USA is HUGE. It is just 'under the table' and 'out of sight'...unlike Thailand, where it is obviously in the open and 'in one's face'. Most women 'escorts' in the US earn huge amounts of money. A few years ago a friend of mine was trying to find a girlfriend by answering adds online in the 'regular' 'women looking for men' section on Craigslist in northern California. Every single woman, except for one, turned out to be a prostitute. He contacted many women over a lengthy period. He eventually met one woman, an East Indian woman, who was actually seeking a date. Prostitution is HUGE in the US and it is ironic and hypocritical that so many people in the US point fingers at places like Thailand. When they point one finger at LOS, they have three fingers pointing back at them (the US).

:jap:

Just an interesting side note ... many Thais in BKK don't even know that places like Soi Cowboy and Nana exist. I was really shocked to learn this by some college kids here ... they never heard of either.

Same as in the US. I would think Lawyers and Escort services are the number one advertisers in Yellow Page ads but few people realize what a huge industry the escort business is.

[MUYTHAI]

How is this even news worthy? I was just on Koh Samui for a month. My classmates and I went out on different occasions to Lamai and Chawang for drinks. In Lamai there is a central square of bars around a Thai boxing ring. On any given night there are perhaps 100 girls (and ladyboys), give or take, working at these bars. All of them dressed like hookers and dancing on the poles installed in each tiny open air establishment. Many were open and fairly brazen about what they were there for. I decided to do my own research and bought a drink for the 20ish looking waitress who had been serving us a drinks and said I wanted her to join me for a while. She spoke fairly good English. She went into sales mode instantly but I calmed her anticipated action and said I want to talk for a while first. She was actually 30 and has a 12 year old son and 8 year old daughter back home in Isaan. She had been on Samui for 6 months already and claimed she was saving to go home. (Grain of salt taken) I asked how much to spend the night with her. 300 baht to the bar and 1000 baht to her. I asked how many other girls do I have to choose from. "Any one you see" was the answer. I asked how many were local girls. "Not many" was the answer. I estimate, from what I saw, that besides these 100 or so in this square, there were maybe another 200 in Lamai and the club scene in Chawang having at least that many as well. Point being, how is a bust on one tiny club involving a whopping 13 girls even worth talking about? And as we all know, this does not even represent a real bust. Perhaps the proprietors missed a payment to the local cops or to the local mafia. At any rate, there are thousands of girls across Thailand selling their wares on a daily basis without even feigning discretion due to fear of being caught let alone needing to be "freed" from their "captors". Although many girls would prefer not to be doing this kind of "work", they are certainly not being forced into it. It is relatively easy money and easy to get into. Sympathy? Sympathetic about the whole situation, but these girls are making their own choices.

The difference is that the bust in question included under-aged women and the article states some were sold into the business. I applaud every case where a bust is made in which a prostitute is being made to be a prostitute against her/his wishes and/or people in their early teens are prostituting. I hope you do also. As for people in their late teens and older who are prostitutes due to their own decision...they should be free to do what they want with their body. This case is another example of why prostitution should be made legal in LOS and regulated like in Costa Rica, Germany, UK, Netherlands, Philippines, parts of OZ, etc.. Legalization and regulation reduces the mistreatment of the workers (they can go to law enforcement authorities for help without the fear of being arrested), reduces 'sex slaves', and is also good for the clients (regular STD tests, etc.). Legalization of prostitution in LOS would not be perfect but would help a lot.

:jap:

Quite true. There would be a REDUCTION in some of the negative aspects of the sex trade. I am not on a stump here nor on some ivory pedestal but wouldn't the perfect solution be to achieve a higher moral standard or at least strive for it. There is always talk of how we can get rid of the stink of the garbage but still keep the garbage. Not possible. The very nature of a morally lacking profession like prostitution is that the lowest common denominator is how it is operated. The lowest pond scum deviant is the problem of course but when you supply a system that feeds that depravity, how can you then cry foul when there is a further moral depravity like pedophilia or sodomy of young boys? Possible to eradicate? Nope. I am a realist but we can at least try. Also, in a system as corrupt as this one is, why would anything really get better? Government and the related officials and the mafia would be the only beneficiaries.

I agree with some of your points. However, morals are subjective and are different in time (year) and space (location). Prostitution is not immoral. Government officials and the mafia are already involved. If prostitution was legal, bar owners, etc. would not have to pay bribes/extortion money to corrupt government officers (BIB, etc.) and mafia because it would be legal. Also, more respectable mamasans, bars, etc. would open up for business and the women would be treated better. Legalization would cause a decrease in mafia involvement and tea money to BIB.

[powderpuff]

let me get this right cause you are able to find a 13 year old prositute in the United States then it is ok that it is happening in Thailand? Cause there is human trafficking going on in other places it is ok that it happens here? What the hell is wrong with you people? 13 year old girls that were sold to a brothel!! did you read this? it is not people working on there own free will in NANA.........do you have a daugher? a niece? a sister? how would you feel if she was being pimped out at 13 would you be ok with that? would you sell her to me? I do not care what the police motivation is for busting the bar, it is a good thing that it was done, the people that ran it should be punished, the people who sold there family should be punished and the people who knowingly asked to sleep with a child should be punished. Anyone here that chooses to defend these people or there clients are exactly why when you mention Thailand people think of the sex trade. If you are 18 years old and want to sell your body, so be it, far from me to judge, but 13 years old is a child, we need to protect them, educate them not exploite them and defend those guilty of this.

The point I was trying to make exactly. Anyone who tries to defend or rationalize this behavior is jaded.

[caf]

Legalisation worked to some extent in the Netherlands but the level of corruption here would be another barrier to its success

As has been said most girls see it as a job which earns good money which can be sent back to the family. Not easy to look at this problem with Western eyes only.

caf

[luckizuchinni]

Have you ever been to Vegas, Los Angeles, Amsterdam, Frankfurt's Redlight district, or The Wall in Nuremberg? I'm sure there are a lot more.

I doubt Thailand invented this industry.

True. Thailand neither invented prostitution, nor karaoke bars. Then again, I doubt that you'll find 13-year old prostitutes (this fact perhaps even being known by some government officials) in Amsterdam, Frankfurt or the US. Nor will parents in those places sell their teenage daughters to brothels.

Hmmm I can guarantee you can get a 13yr old in the USA. Not sure about the other places. I don't think they buy girls as much as they capture them.

The difference is that in the US, the cops will actively track you down for sex with an underage girl, and the courts will apply severe punishments. In Thailand, enforcement against this kind of thing is lax and rarely done. It is better that it was 20 years ago when pre-teens openly walked the street, but it is still prevalent and the purveyors of these young girls rarely suffer any consequences.

[mstribling]

Legalisation worked to some extent in the Netherlands but the level of corruption here would be another barrier to its success

As has been said most girls see it as a job which earns good money which can be sent back to the family. Not easy to look at this problem with Western eyes only.

caf

Very true.

It's the same rinse and repeat story.

When they get popped, save face. "I was trapped, I was sold, etc, etc..."

None of these girls is going to get hit and then confess "Yep, I was slingin' pussy"

Deny all responsibility.

[luckizuchinni]

A friend of mine who runs an HIV foundation in Bangkok, says she has proof that the number of women per capita involved in the sex industry is significantly higher in the US, than in Thailand. The only difference being that it is far more honest, and open here in thailand, and it is nearly entirely underground (with the exception of strip bars, and the porn industry) in the US. People have no idea how many millions of women are involved in the US, as the massage business, the escort business, the chiropractic office brothels, etc, etc, are all done in secret.

That's interesting. I knew this sort of thing was going on under our collective noses in America, but I had no idea to what extent.

Really? LOL. Prostitution in the USA is HUGE. It is just 'under the table' and 'out of sight'...unlike Thailand, where it is obviously in the open and 'in one's face'. Most women 'escorts' in the US earn huge amounts of money. A few years ago a friend of mine was trying to find a girlfriend by answering adds online in the 'regular' 'women looking for men' section on Craigslist in northern California. Every single woman, except for one, turned out to be a prostitute. He contacted many women over a lengthy period. He eventually met one woman, an East Indian woman, who was actually seeking a date. Prostitution is HUGE in the US and it is ironic and hypocritical that so many people in the US point fingers at places like Thailand. When they point one finger at LOS, they have three fingers pointing back at them (the US).

:jap:

Prostitution in the US is big business, no doubt. But to say that there are more hookers per capita in the US than in Thailand is ludicrous. Strip bars make money, if a stripper agrees to have sex for money, the strip bar gets closed, so the owners keep a close eye on that.

Let;s take Craig's List. Look in LA. There may be 1,000 hookers advertising there. Out of an LA area population of 10,000,000? THat is close to Bangkok-size. Do you really think those 1,000 LA hookers come anywhere close to what is in Bangkok? Throw in the street walkers, the OMP's, the high end escorts, and it still does not come close to what is here in Bangkok.

The difference is options. Women in the US have more options than those in Thailand. The Americans who really want to hook, do. Or they very low end of the crack spectrum. But most poor, uneducated women can still do something else to make a living.

[caf]

How is this even news worthy? I was just on Koh Samui for a month. My classmates and I went out on different occasions to Lamai and Chawang for drinks. In Lamai there is a central square of bars around a Thai boxing ring. On any given night there are perhaps 100 girls (and ladyboys), give or take, working at these bars. All of them dressed like hookers and dancing on the poles installed in each tiny open air establishment. Many were open and fairly brazen about what they were there for. I decided to do my own research and bought a drink for the 20ish looking waitress who had been serving us a drinks and said I wanted her to join me for a while. She spoke fairly good English. She went into sales mode instantly but I calmed her anticipated action and said I want to talk for a while first. She was actually 30 and has a 12 year old son and 8 year old daughter back home in Isaan. She had been on Samui for 6 months already and claimed she was saving to go home. (Grain of salt taken) I asked how much to spend the night with her. 300 baht to the bar and 1000 baht to her. I asked how many other girls do I have to choose from. "Any one you see" was the answer. I asked how many were local girls. "Not many" was the answer. I estimate, from what I saw, that besides these 100 or so in this square, there were maybe another 200 in Lamai and the club scene in Chawang having at least that many as well. Point being, how is a bust on one tiny club involving a whopping 13 girls even worth talking about? And as we all know, this does not even represent a real bust. Perhaps the proprietors missed a payment to the local cops or to the local mafia. At any rate, there are thousands of girls across Thailand selling their wares on a daily basis without even feigning discretion due to fear of being caught let alone needing to be "freed" from their "captors". Although many girls would prefer not to be doing this kind of "work", they are certainly not being forced into it. It is relatively easy money and easy to get into. Sympathy? Sympathetic about the whole situation, but these girls are making their own choices.

The difference is that the bust in question included under-aged women and the article states some were sold into the business. I applaud every case where a bust is made in which a prostitute is being made to be a prostitute against her/his wishes and/or people in their early teens are prostituting. I hope you do also. As for people in their late teens and older who are prostitutes due to their own decision...they should be free to do what they want with their body. This case is another example of why prostitution should be made legal in LOS and regulated like in Costa Rica, Germany, UK, Netherlands, Philippines, parts of OZ, etc.. Legalization and regulation reduces the mistreatment of the workers (they can go to law enforcement authorities for help without the fear of being arrested), reduces 'sex slaves', and is also good for the clients (regular STD tests, etc.). Legalization of prostitution in LOS would not be perfect but would help a lot.

:jap:

Quite true. There would be a REDUCTION in some of the negative aspects of the sex trade. I am not on a stump here nor on some ivory pedestal but wouldn't the perfect solution be to achieve a higher moral standard or at least strive for it. There is always talk of how we can get rid of the stink of the garbage but still keep the garbage. Not possible. The very nature of a morally lacking profession like prostitution is that the lowest common denominator is how it is operated. The lowest pond scum deviant is the problem of course but when you supply a system that feeds that depravity, how can you then cry foul when there is a further moral depravity like pedophilia or sodomy of young boys? Possible to eradicate? Nope. I am a realist but we can at least try. Also, in a system as corrupt as this one is, why would anything really get better? Government and the related officials and the mafia would be the only beneficiaries.

I agree with some of your points. However, morals are subjective and are different in time (year) and space (location). Prostitution is not immoral. Government officials and the mafia are already involved. If prostitution was legal, bar owners, etc. would not have to pay bribes/extortion money to corrupt government officers (BIB, etc.) and mafia because it would be legal. Also, more respectable mamasans, bars, etc. would open up for business and the women would be treated better. Legalization would cause a decrease in mafia involvement and tea money to BIB.

And the two organisations you mention would allow that?

Prostitution as a business is a part of the scene here. Money flows not only to the girls of course. The BIB themselves come from families where prostitution to help the family is acceptable.

caf

[mstribling]

Have you ever been to Vegas, Los Angeles, Amsterdam, Frankfurt's Redlight district, or The Wall in Nuremberg? I'm sure there are a lot more.

I doubt Thailand invented this industry.

True. Thailand neither invented prostitution, nor karaoke bars. Then again, I doubt that you'll find 13-year old prostitutes (this fact perhaps even being known by some government officials) in Amsterdam, Frankfurt or the US. Nor will parents in those places sell their teenage daughters to brothels.

Hmmm I can guarantee you can get a 13yr old in the USA. Not sure about the other places. I don't think they buy girls as much as they capture them.

The difference is that in the US, the cops will actively track you down for sex with an underage girl, and the courts will apply severe punishments. In Thailand, enforcement against this kind of thing is lax and rarely done. It is better that it was 20 years ago when pre-teens openly walked the street, but it is still prevalent and the purveyors of these young girls rarely suffer any consequences.

Ridiculous. Cops could give a shit less in the US. Drive down Little York Ave. in Houston and you'll find 13rd old girls slingin' it day-and-night. Cops only care when it is a white girl.

[BkkMikey]

How is this even news worthy? I was just on Koh Samui for a month. My classmates and I went out on different occasions to Lamai and Chawang for drinks. In Lamai there is a central square of bars around a Thai boxing ring. On any given night there are perhaps 100 girls (and ladyboys), give or take, working at these bars. All of them dressed like hookers and dancing on the poles installed in each tiny open air establishment. Many were open and fairly brazen about what they were there for. I decided to do my own research and bought a drink for the 20ish looking waitress who had been serving us a drinks and said I wanted her to join me for a while. She spoke fairly good English. She went into sales mode instantly but I calmed her anticipated action and said I want to talk for a while first. She was actually 30 and has a 12 year old son and 8 year old daughter back home in Isaan. She had been on Samui for 6 months already and claimed she was saving to go home. (Grain of salt taken) I asked how much to spend the night with her. 300 baht to the bar and 1000 baht to her. I asked how many other girls do I have to choose from. "Any one you see" was the answer. I asked how many were local girls. "Not many" was the answer. I estimate, from what I saw, that besides these 100 or so in this square, there were maybe another 200 in Lamai and the club scene in Chawang having at least that many as well. Point being, how is a bust on one tiny club involving a whopping 13 girls even worth talking about? And as we all know, this does not even represent a real bust. Perhaps the proprietors missed a payment to the local cops or to the local mafia. At any rate, there are thousands of girls across Thailand selling their wares on a daily basis without even feigning discretion due to fear of being caught let alone needing to be "freed" from their "captors". Although many girls would prefer not to be doing this kind of "work", they are certainly not being forced into it. It is relatively easy money and easy to get into. Sympathy? Sympathetic about the whole situation, but these girls are making their own choices.

Sympathy?... Did you read the article ? Underaged hilltribe girl aged 13-15 among the girls rescued. Sold by their parents and held in captivity, forced into prostitution.

I would hardly compare that to your happy dancing esaan beer bar girls that you so cleverly interrogated on samui.

[LomSak27]

Its newsworthy because it's bonded protitution, supposedly illegal since 95 or 96, well that might be the date they started enforcing it more, thanks to AIDS. Still its an old tradition in Thailand.

Police claim that initial investigations found the girls had been bought from their relatives in Chiang Rai's Mae Sai district and detained for prostitution in Chiang Mai.

[61guitarman61]

How is this even news worthy? I was just on Koh Samui for a month. My classmates and I went out on different occasions to Lamai and Chawang for drinks. In Lamai there is a central square of bars around a Thai boxing ring. On any given night there are perhaps 100 girls (and ladyboys), give or take, working at these bars. All of them dressed like hookers and dancing on the poles installed in each tiny open air establishment. Many were open and fairly brazen about what they were there for. I decided to do my own research and bought a drink for the 20ish looking waitress who had been serving us a drinks and said I wanted her to join me for a while. She spoke fairly good English. She went into sales mode instantly but I calmed her anticipated action and said I want to talk for a while first. She was actually 30 and has a 12 year old son and 8 year old daughter back home in Isaan. She had been on Samui for 6 months already and claimed she was saving to go home. (Grain of salt taken) I asked how much to spend the night with her. 300 baht to the bar and 1000 baht to her. I asked how many other girls do I have to choose from. "Any one you see" was the answer. I asked how many were local girls. "Not many" was the answer. I estimate, from what I saw, that besides these 100 or so in this square, there were maybe another 200 in Lamai and the club scene in Chawang having at least that many as well. Point being, how is a bust on one tiny club involving a whopping 13 girls even worth talking about? And as we all know, this does not even represent a real bust. Perhaps the proprietors missed a payment to the local cops or to the local mafia. At any rate, there are thousands of girls across Thailand selling their wares on a daily basis without even feigning discretion due to fear of being caught let alone needing to be "freed" from their "captors". Although many girls would prefer not to be doing this kind of "work", they are certainly not being forced into it. It is relatively easy money and easy to get into. Sympathy? Sympathetic about the whole situation, but these girls are making their own choices.

Sympathy?... Did you read the article ? Underaged hilltribe girl aged 13-15 among the girls rescued. Sold by their parents and held in captivity, forced into prostitution.

I would hardly compare that to your happy dancing esaan beer bar girls that you so cleverly interrogated on samui.

Read more of my posts. I won't reiterate them............... Sympathy for the true victims? Yes. There are all forms of victims in this wonderful land.

[irishken]

its amazing to me that we all the bars in thailand and girls in thailand that go to work willingly that there is a market for this kind of forced prostitution

[lowerlakeside]

My Thai wife and i ran a Beer Bar in Lamai Koh Samui for a couple years.When we went back to Issan before opening we had numerous calls from locals who had heard thru the grapevine we were going to open a bar.

Most of these girls had never been away from Issan and were leaving to provide for children after thier husbands had left them ,or were just young uneducated girls with little or no other options.

One girl i later learned was 15 years old,although she was quite tall and big for a Thai girl i had no idea of her age.

One night while she was dancing a bar patron asked me how old she was.i had no idea but assumed around 18 or 19 .

So i asked my wife who told me she was 15.

I then asked her what was the legal age for sex in Thailand and i swear to god this was her answer...

" It depends if you love her or not "

So you see they have different views on life in general here in the land of smiles.

[irishken]

How is this even news worthy? I was just on Koh Samui for a month. My classmates and I went out on different occasions to Lamai and Chawang for drinks. In Lamai there is a central square of bars around a Thai boxing ring. On any given night there are perhaps 100 girls (and ladyboys), give or take, working at these bars. All of them dressed like hookers and dancing on the poles installed in each tiny open air establishment. Many were open and fairly brazen about what they were there for. I decided to do my own research and bought a drink for the 20ish looking waitress who had been serving us a drinks and said I wanted her to join me for a while. She spoke fairly good English. She went into sales mode instantly but I calmed her anticipated action and said I want to talk for a while first. She was actually 30 and has a 12 year old son and 8 year old daughter back home in Isaan. She had been on Samui for 6 months already and claimed she was saving to go home. (Grain of salt taken) I asked how much to spend the night with her. 300 baht to the bar and 1000 baht to her. I asked how many other girls do I have to choose from. "Any one you see" was the answer. I asked how many were local girls. "Not many" was the answer. I estimate, from what I saw, that besides these 100 or so in this square, there were maybe another 200 in Lamai and the club scene in Chawang having at least that many as well. Point being, how is a bust on one tiny club involving a whopping 13 girls even worth talking about? And as we all know, this does not even represent a real bust. Perhaps the proprietors missed a payment to the local cops or to the local mafia. At any rate, there are thousands of girls across Thailand selling their wares on a daily basis without even feigning discretion due to fear of being caught let alone needing to be "freed" from their "captors". Although many girls would prefer not to be doing this kind of "work", they are certainly not being forced into it. It is relatively easy money and easy to get into. Sympathy? Sympathetic about the whole situation, but these girls are making their own choices.

people that go to thailand and then take <deleted> about there culture or the ways the girls have to make a living really piss me off.everyone knows that it is not there first carrer choice to work in a bar

[OzMick]

From a combination of modern diet, processed food, chemical additives and environmental pollution, girls are maturing faster and earlier, many have breasts at 11 or 12 years of age. Boys conversely are bwecoming more feminised.

A long time ago when I was a junior physics teacher I was co-opted by the PE department to run the girls swimming lessons, none of the PE teachers had life saving certificates, and I did. Incidentally the boys played football.

As this lesson was immediately after lunch and many pupils went home for lunch, the arrangement was that I met them at the baths and took the class register at the poolside.

So the first time I arrived and looked for my class, I knew them well as I had taught them physics for the last two years. I could not see them, until eventually i realised that all these shapely young women swimming around were my 14 year old pupils,

perhaps a female teacher might not have been deceived, but I most certainly was.

"Boys conversely are bwecoming more feminised." Typo or not, I like it!

[caf]

How is this even news worthy? I was just on Koh Samui for a month. My classmates and I went out on different occasions to Lamai and Chawang for drinks. In Lamai there is a central square of bars around a Thai boxing ring. On any given night there are perhaps 100 girls (and ladyboys), give or take, working at these bars. All of them dressed like hookers and dancing on the poles installed in each tiny open air establishment. Many were open and fairly brazen about what they were there for. I decided to do my own research and bought a drink for the 20ish looking waitress who had been serving us a drinks and said I wanted her to join me for a while. She spoke fairly good English. She went into sales mode instantly but I calmed her anticipated action and said I want to talk for a while first. She was actually 30 and has a 12 year old son and 8 year old daughter back home in Isaan. She had been on Samui for 6 months already and claimed she was saving to go home. (Grain of salt taken) I asked how much to spend the night with her. 300 baht to the bar and 1000 baht to her. I asked how many other girls do I have to choose from. "Any one you see" was the answer. I asked how many were local girls. "Not many" was the answer. I estimate, from what I saw, that besides these 100 or so in this square, there were maybe another 200 in Lamai and the club scene in Chawang having at least that many as well. Point being, how is a bust on one tiny club involving a whopping 13 girls even worth talking about? And as we all know, this does not even represent a real bust. Perhaps the proprietors missed a payment to the local cops or to the local mafia. At any rate, there are thousands of girls across Thailand selling their wares on a daily basis without even feigning discretion due to fear of being caught let alone needing to be "freed" from their "captors". Although many girls would prefer not to be doing this kind of "work", they are certainly not being forced into it. It is relatively easy money and easy to get into. Sympathy? Sympathetic about the whole situation, but these girls are making their own choices.

people that go to thailand and then take <deleted> about there culture or the ways the girls have to make a living really piss me off.everyone knows that it is not there first carrer choice to work in a bar

I agree it is not their first "career" choice; but it IS part of their "culture". You can't look at this with western eyes. Some posters understand - and oddly they are not always those who have been here the longest

caf

caf

[mstribling]

How is this even news worthy? I was just on Koh Samui for a month. My classmates and I went out on different occasions to Lamai and Chawang for drinks. In Lamai there is a central square of bars around a Thai boxing ring. On any given night there are perhaps 100 girls (and ladyboys), give or take, working at these bars. All of them dressed like hookers and dancing on the poles installed in each tiny open air establishment. Many were open and fairly brazen about what they were there for. I decided to do my own research and bought a drink for the 20ish looking waitress who had been serving us a drinks and said I wanted her to join me for a while. She spoke fairly good English. She went into sales mode instantly but I calmed her anticipated action and said I want to talk for a while first. She was actually 30 and has a 12 year old son and 8 year old daughter back home in Isaan. She had been on Samui for 6 months already and claimed she was saving to go home. (Grain of salt taken) I asked how much to spend the night with her. 300 baht to the bar and 1000 baht to her. I asked how many other girls do I have to choose from. "Any one you see" was the answer. I asked how many were local girls. "Not many" was the answer. I estimate, from what I saw, that besides these 100 or so in this square, there were maybe another 200 in Lamai and the club scene in Chawang having at least that many as well. Point being, how is a bust on one tiny club involving a whopping 13 girls even worth talking about? And as we all know, this does not even represent a real bust. Perhaps the proprietors missed a payment to the local cops or to the local mafia. At any rate, there are thousands of girls across Thailand selling their wares on a daily basis without even feigning discretion due to fear of being caught let alone needing to be "freed" from their "captors". Although many girls would prefer not to be doing this kind of "work", they are certainly not being forced into it. It is relatively easy money and easy to get into. Sympathy? Sympathetic about the whole situation, but these girls are making their own choices.

people that go to thailand and then take <deleted> about there culture or the ways the girls have to make a living really piss me off.everyone knows that it is not there first carrer choice to work in a bar

I don't understand what your saying.

[jfchandler]

A couple of comments...

--This kind of thing (one bar) would be an invisible drop in the bucket upcountry, where this kind of underage activity clearly is predominantly a Thai customer oriented deal... If the authorities bothered to look, they no doubt could find countless other places with similar setups...particularly in the border areas.

--From their skin color, I'd doubt the girls pictured in the photo with the article are the 13-15 year old underaged ones from the hill tribes area.. More likely others among the 13 who were just plying their trade and unhappy about getting nabbed.

--While there certainly are many of-age Thai bar girls in Bangkok, Pattaya and elsewhere who do so voluntarily and (perhaps out of not knowing any better or lack of opportunity) find the bar lifestyle fun and profitable, there's no situation where 13 to 15 year old girls should be in that environment, willing or not.

--I too noticed it as being a bit odd that two of the arrested ladies had last names of Mayer (sisters, I'd suppose). I'd imagine it's not among the more common family names you find among Thai bar girls, unless of course there was some farang ownership interest in the place.

[ginjag]

Sympathy? Sympathetic about the whole situation, but these girls are making their own choices.

I hear what you are saying and not sure "sympathy" would be the right word on an individual basis but I certainly don't look down on the girls and like you am sympathetic to the whole situation. Females in general don't have a lot of opportunity in Thailand, especially ones born more than a decade or two ago. There is no real sex education in this country and girls get pregnant by men who have no obligation to contribute to the child's welfare. Then on top of it you have a society that puts the male above the females in the family but it is the female and not the male who is not only expected to assure financial responsibility for their child but also for their aging parents. We all have choices but these girls have few and again am not sure it is sympathy but I do feel some kind of empathy for them.

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand. If the law is applied no one could do this type of work. so no sympathy needed-or empathy. Give the females the chance in life. If they could find the will to work-but a big percent don't want responsibility. Now what have we got-all 13 pro/bar girls have been finally caught-yippee the end of prostitution in Thailand ???--but I have a sneaking feeling (just a hunch) that there could be 1-or-2 in phuket and pattaya. I could be wrong though

[ginjag]

How is this even news worthy? I was just on Koh Samui for a month. My classmates and I went out on different occasions to Lamai and Chawang for drinks. In Lamai there is a central square of bars around a Thai boxing ring. On any given night there are perhaps 100 girls (and ladyboys), give or take, working at these bars. All of them dressed like hookers and dancing on the poles installed in each tiny open air establishment. Many were open and fairly brazen about what they were there for. I decided to do my own research and bought a drink for the 20ish looking waitress who had been serving us a drinks and said I wanted her to join me for a while. She spoke fairly good English. She went into sales mode instantly but I calmed her anticipated action and said I want to talk for a while first. She was actually 30 and has a 12 year old son and 8 year old daughter back home in Isaan. She had been on Samui for 6 months already and claimed she was saving to go home. (Grain of salt taken) I asked how much to spend the night with her. 300 baht to the bar and 1000 baht to her. I asked how many other girls do I have to choose from. "Any one you see" was the answer. I asked how many were local girls. "Not many" was the answer. I estimate, from what I saw, that besides these 100 or so in this square, there were maybe another 200 in Lamai and the club scene in Chawang having at least that many as well. Point being, how is a bust on one tiny club involving a whopping 13 girls even worth talking about? And as we all know, this does not even represent a real bust. Perhaps the proprietors missed a payment to the local cops or to the local mafia. At any rate, there are thousands of girls across Thailand selling their wares on a daily basis without even feigning discretion due to fear of being caught let alone needing to be "freed" from their "captors". Although many girls would prefer not to be doing this kind of "work", they are certainly not being forced into it. It is relatively easy money and easy to get into. Sympathy? Sympathetic about the whole situation, but these girls are making their own choices.

You might want to do a little bit more research regarding how the Girls would like to be employed. My Wife runs a small business and we needed a couple of helpers and having a Thai Wife, thought it would keep life simple if we had a couple of Thai Girls. Try as we may to find a couple to employ them, we had no luck, so I "volunteered" (I know, no sacrifice is to great for my Lovely Wife), to cruise around the Girlie Bars because I was led to believe there are quite a few Isaan Girls working there. Now, you can't just go barging in there and say "anyone want a job?" That's a bit rude, so I hung around and played a couple of games of pool and bought a couple of drinks and then when I was feeling quite relaxed, asked if any of them fancied a job. Basically they are Housekeeping appointments and we were prepared to pay 5,500 as a staring salary, progressing each three months to 7,500 baht. No one was interested. It transpires that most of them would prefer to stay working in the bars because every night is a party night and they also hope to meet a future foreign husband who will then give them a comfortable life.

Just because somebody doesn't want to work at a non-secure job with you & your wife and leave a back breaking job where they make 5 times more is no indication that they like their current job. It is more likely they depend on the money that job brings.

These girls also need to think about their future. They mostly have no real education and when older can only expect to receive the government 500 baht a month social security which most don't even know exists since you need to make at least 20,000 baht a month to even pay taxes here.

Does working as a prostitute and having sex with smelly fat old farangs have an effect on young girl's mind and self-esteem ... certainly it does but you are sadly mistaken if you think that the girls or women get into prostitution do it because they think it is fun because this is simply not the case for the vast majority of them.

I can't stand to eat boiled cabbage-it makes me sick to try it. get the point Nisa. Also For your information not all customers are fat and smelly, and half are Thai men. It is the case for a vast majority of them, Many love the lifestyle---- they have choices--as we all have and not all are Issan poorly educated girls. Can't they cook--or have 2 jobs a day ?? many are pushed into this by their families also. Nisa look around you more, have a wider vision than you have-you mean well but -your basic observations are limited. relying on others informing you-or looking up other reports. I can guess at your statistic/type reply. But I am trying to be open and honest.

Edited February 17, 2011 by ginjag

[Nisa]

A friend of mine who runs an HIV foundation in Bangkok, says she has proof that the number of women per capita involved in the sex industry is significantly higher in the US, than in Thailand. The only difference being that it is far more honest, and open here in thailand, and it is nearly entirely underground (with the exception of strip bars, and the porn industry) in the US. People have no idea how many millions of women are involved in the US, as the massage business, the escort business, the chiropractic office brothels, etc, etc, are all done in secret.

That's interesting. I knew this sort of thing was going on under our collective noses in America, but I had no idea to what extent.

Really? LOL. Prostitution in the USA is HUGE. It is just 'under the table' and 'out of sight'...unlike Thailand, where it is obviously in the open and 'in one's face'. Most women 'escorts' in the US earn huge amounts of money. A few years ago a friend of mine was trying to find a girlfriend by answering adds online in the 'regular' 'women looking for men' section on Craigslist in northern California. Every single woman, except for one, turned out to be a prostitute. He contacted many women over a lengthy period. He eventually met one woman, an East Indian woman, who was actually seeking a date. Prostitution is HUGE in the US and it is ironic and hypocritical that so many people in the US point fingers at places like Thailand. When they point one finger at LOS, they have three fingers pointing back at them (the US).

:jap:

Prostitution in the US is big business, no doubt. But to say that there are more hookers per capita in the US than in Thailand is ludicrous. Strip bars make money, if a stripper agrees to have sex for money, the strip bar gets closed, so the owners keep a close eye on that.

Let;s take Craig's List. Look in LA. There may be 1,000 hookers advertising there. Out of an LA area population of 10,000,000? THat is close to Bangkok-size. Do you really think those 1,000 LA hookers come anywhere close to what is in Bangkok? Throw in the street walkers, the OMP's, the high end escorts, and it still does not come close to what is here in Bangkok.

The difference is options. Women in the US have more options than those in Thailand. The Americans who really want to hook, do. Or they very low end of the crack spectrum. But most poor, uneducated women can still do something else to make a living.

Women in the US in general become prostitutes for much different reasons than in Thailand with mental illness and drug addiction being at the top ... at least for street prostitutes. I couldn't find anything doing a quick net search but did find that Zurich and Amsterdam have 11 prostitutes per 1,000 population ... clearly that is higher than BKK or Pattaya. I did however find an interesting article regarding Prostitution and Sex Trafficking in the US that clearly shows it has some of the same problems as Thailand http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/usa.htm

[luckizuchinni]

True. Thailand neither invented prostitution, nor karaoke bars. Then again, I doubt that you'll find 13-year old prostitutes (this fact perhaps even being known by some government officials) in Amsterdam, Frankfurt or the US. Nor will parents in those places sell their teenage daughters to brothels.

Hmmm I can guarantee you can get a 13yr old in the USA. Not sure about the other places. I don't think they buy girls as much as they capture them.

The difference is that in the US, the cops will actively track you down for sex with an underage girl, and the courts will apply severe punishments. In Thailand, enforcement against this kind of thing is lax and rarely done. It is better that it was 20 years ago when pre-teens openly walked the street, but it is still prevalent and the purveyors of these young girls rarely suffer any consequences.

Ridiculous. Cops could give a shit less in the US. Drive down Little York Ave. in Houston and you'll find 13rd old girls slingin' it day-and-night. Cops only care when it is a white girl.

Now you are being somewhat on the ridiculous side. Of course, people do and get away with crimes all the time. But cops get promoted on how well they do their job. Arresting criminals is a quantifiable way to do that. Arresting men who have sex with underaged boys or girls is a good for publicity for the police force, and it is a good way to get promoted. And that does not even go into the non-law enforcement agencies working to fight this. I would bet that a good number of so-called underaged girls and boys who agree to meet older men for sex are actually adults setting stings.

In Thailand, the motivation for police is different. It is not so much as how good they do in their job (read arrests) but rather how well they succeed in the massive construct of payola. So getting paid to ignore a bar where there is underage sex going on gets a policeman promoted faster than in the US where busting that place would get the cop promoted faster.

US cops do "give a shit" on underage sex, if only to further their careers (and I am not saying that is the only reason. Cops are human, too, and most would be disgusted by this type of activity)

[luckizuchinni]

Really? LOL. Prostitution in the USA is HUGE. It is just 'under the table' and 'out of sight'...unlike Thailand, where it is obviously in the open and 'in one's face'. Most women 'escorts' in the US earn huge amounts of money. A few years ago a friend of mine was trying to find a girlfriend by answering adds online in the 'regular' 'women looking for men' section on Craigslist in northern California. Every single woman, except for one, turned out to be a prostitute. He contacted many women over a lengthy period. He eventually met one woman, an East Indian woman, who was actually seeking a date. Prostitution is HUGE in the US and it is ironic and hypocritical that so many people in the US point fingers at places like Thailand. When they point one finger at LOS, they have three fingers pointing back at them (the US).

:jap:

Prostitution in the US is big business, no doubt. But to say that there are more hookers per capita in the US than in Thailand is ludicrous. Strip bars make money, if a stripper agrees to have sex for money, the strip bar gets closed, so the owners keep a close eye on that.

Let;s take Craig's List. Look in LA. There may be 1,000 hookers advertising there. Out of an LA area population of 10,000,000? THat is close to Bangkok-size. Do you really think those 1,000 LA hookers come anywhere close to what is in Bangkok? Throw in the street walkers, the OMP's, the high end escorts, and it still does not come close to what is here in Bangkok.

The difference is options. Women in the US have more options than those in Thailand. The Americans who really want to hook, do. Or they very low end of the crack spectrum. But most poor, uneducated women can still do something else to make a living.

Women in the US in general become prostitutes for much different reasons than in Thailand with mental illness and drug addiction being at the top ... at least for street prostitutes. I couldn't find anything doing a quick net search but did find that Zurich and Amsterdam have 11 prostitutes per 1,000 population ... clearly that is higher than BKK or Pattaya. I did however find an interesting article regarding Prostitution and Sex Trafficking in the US that clearly shows it has some of the same problems as Thailand http://www.uri.edu/a.../hughes/usa.htm

Pattaya has an estimated 20,000 prostitutes. With a population of something a little over 100,000, that gives a rate of 20%. Even given some shaky figures, that far exceeds the 1% as listed above in Amsterdam or Zurich.

Just as Amsterdam undoubtedly has a higher percentage of prostitutes as the nation at large, Pattaya undoubtedly has a higher rate than in Thailand at large.

[luckizuchinni]

You've been watching to much dateline.

Like I said. Cops could give a shit less. Call 911 in Houston and tell them you say an underage girl slingin pussy on York street. They'd go along with it because it is being taped. But would a uniformed police car show up? No way.

I bet it is the sane in Baltimore, Philly, and elsewhere.

White people don't have a clue what goes on in the streets

I am glad you know my race given my username and less than 100 posts!

[mstribling]

Gotta love TV. I had to scroll up to see what the topic was about

[Just1Voice]

Four things.

First, Buddha taught that having a son was good because he could help with the farming, etc., but having a daughter was a "blessing" because she could bring income to the family. My feeling is that this was originally meant through "sin sod" and marriage endowments, but that it was later "distorted" to including prostitution, either willingly by the girl, or by the parents simply selling her.

Second, one of my wife's younger cousins is drop dead beautiful. Looks like a Thai Playboy centerfold. She went to work at 18 as a bar girl. Since she spoke Japanese, she concentrated on the bars who catered to them. She's now 30, very happily married for nearly 10 years now to a wealthy Japanese who is only 5 years older than her, who she met in one of the bars, has a nice home, 2 children, and together they opened a very nice Japanese restaurant.

Third. I have a neighbor (Thai) who is a very nice guy. Divorced, but with girl friend for over 2 years now. He has a 13 yr old daughter from his first marriage who goes to a private school in Lampang. Even without makeup, sexy clothes, etc., this girl looks more like 23 than 13. About a month ago he went to Lampang to see her, and bring her back to CM for the upcoming holidays. He stopped at a local bar to join some friends, and dam_n near had a heart attack when he saw his 13 yr old daughter coming back into the bar with her latest "date". He went ballistic, to say the least, and was ready to kill the bar owner, who told him that his daughter, who has an ID saying she's 18, was one of their best girls, and always had 3-4 customers a night at 2,500 baht each. Daughter is now living at home with dad and going to a local school here. This girl was not forced or sold, as her father paid for everything, plus 5k a month for "spending money". She said she did it because she loved sex, and wanted more money for "fancier things" than his 5k monthly allowance allowed.

Fourth. At a particular intersection here in CM there is a woman who sells flower garlands. Sometimes she has her daughter and young son with her. One day I stopped to buy some, as my life loves them around the house. The woman came over with her daughter, and after paying for the garlands, she asked me if I liked young girls. Deciding to play along, I said "yes". She told me I could have her daughter for 1 hour for 2,000 baht. When I asked how old the daughter was, the mother proudly told me "14 and still virgin!". I told her "no thanks, that is too young" and drove off. I no longer buy garlands there.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Just1Voice

[sydneyjed]

Its worth talking about if some girls are aged 13-15 years old and are innocent naieve hill tribe girls sold off by their relatives!Alright to a certain extent morality may be going out the window in some areas of Thai life/society..but these girls deserve a better life than this served up to them and even if it is a token gesture they don't deserve this!!Disturbing story and sad!

How is this even news worthy? I was just on Koh Samui for a month. My classmates and I went out on different occasions to Lamai and Chawang for drinks. In Lamai there is a central square of bars around a Thai boxing ring. On any given night there are perhaps 100 girls (and ladyboys), give or take, working at these bars. All of them dressed like hookers and dancing on the poles installed in each tiny open air establishment. Many were open and fairly brazen about what they were there for. I decided to do my own research and bought a drink for the 20ish looking waitress who had been serving us a drinks and said I wanted her to join me for a while. She spoke fairly good English. She went into sales mode instantly but I calmed her anticipated action and said I want to talk for a while first. She was actually 30 and has a 12 year old son and 8 year old daughter back home in Isaan. She had been on Samui for 6 months already and claimed she was saving to go home. (Grain of salt taken) I asked how much to spend the night with her. 300 baht to the bar and 1000 baht to her. I asked how many other girls do I have to choose from. "Any one you see" was the answer. I asked how many were local girls. "Not many" was the answer. I estimate, from what I saw, that besides these 100 or so in this square, there were maybe another 200 in Lamai and the club scene in Chawang having at least that many as well. Point being, how is a bust on one tiny club involving a whopping 13 girls even worth talking about? And as we all know, this does not even represent a real bust. Perhaps the proprietors missed a payment to the local cops or to the local mafia. At any rate, there are thousands of girls across Thailand selling their wares on a daily basis without even feigning discretion due to fear of being caught let alone needing to be "freed" from their "captors". Although many girls would prefer not to be doing this kind of "work", they are certainly not being forced into it. It is relatively easy money and easy to get into. Sympathy? Sympathetic about the whole situation, but these girls are making their own choices.

[Nisa]

Pattaya has an estimated 20,000 prostitutes. With a population of something a little over 100,000, that gives a rate of 20%. Even given some shaky figures, that far exceeds the 1% as listed above in Amsterdam or Zurich.

Actually most people put the population of Pattaya between 300k and 500k depending on the season. The stat you are quoting are coming from household registration numbers.

I am also curious to where you got the number 20k for number of prostitutes in Pattaya.

According to Wikipedia ...

The 2001 report by the World Health Organisation: "The most reliable suggestion is that there are between 150,000 and 200,000 sex workers."

A recent government survey found that there were 76,000 to 77,000 adult prostitutes in registered entertainment establishments;

the NGOs believed there were between 200,000 and 300,000 prostitutes.

Somehow I don't believe that approx. 10% of prostitutes in Thailand are based in Pattaya ... but I never counted or considered it much before this.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Nisa

[pjclark1]

Does working as a prostitute and having sex with smelly fat old farangs have an effect on young girl's mind and self-esteem ... certainly it does but you are sadly mistaken if you think that the girls or women get into prostitution do it because they think it is fun because this is simply not the case for the vast majority of them.

Why bring white men into this discussion?

The brothel raided was for Thais, not for foreigners (as are nearly all brothels in Thailand).

It's extremely unlikely that any of those girls had ever had sex with a white man.

Methinks

Spot the racist is the name of the game!

Edited February 17, 2011 by pjclark1