Is This A Good Time To Retire To Thailand Part 2

[newbepat]

Is This a Good Time to Retire to Thailand Part 2?

As the Moderator said, it was me who asked him to delete/close Part 1 of this topic

What did i get out of this?

· I got some very good advice

· I got some very bad advice

· Some kind comments some not so.

· Some incorrect

· I got some rude remarks even thou i was not rude to anyone,

· Some rude remarks about me, some about my country.

· I got guys in arguments with each other over me and what i said and didn't say

· I also got some very good advice, by messages posted to me Thanks

· You get people darting in and out saying things that are off the wall.

1. I am Irish i live in Ireland and proud of my country, But for the banks and political situation + The high tax here this would be a great little country to live in (except for the weather)

2. Ok Tax man is sorted Paid in full. ( for anyone following the tread)

3. Ex wife. We separated about 22 years now, No children, we had a business we sold up and divided everything 50/50 signed and sealed with solicitors the lot, she went her way i went my way. I set up another business on my own bought and sold property and made some money. She did ok too. 3 years ago she filed for divorce she wants more money and will not agree terms (now remember we split our assets 50/50 when we separated (in Ireland you cannot get a divorce until you are 4/5 years separated) any money i have now, i gained since i separated. The law in Ireland says you cannot get out of this, she can come back again and again, same same for me too but i think that's unfair

4. Financial Advice, For those who said seek good financial advice I am doing that, it's like a mine field out there, i don't know who to trust and i haven't a clue about stocks and shares or money management. The advice i got here in Ireland so far was to keep your money in "Good Banks" in short term accounts, what's on offer is (2%- 3.5% AER) Its best to keep in €100k lots (guaranteed) hence the 5 bank accounts .The safer the Banks like AAA rating they will give you a lower interest rate, try and manage that and travel at the same time, "Sorry Sir, your money was rolled over at this or that interest rate you were late contacting us" its locked in. The banks in Ireland are obliged to stop tax @ 27% on any interest you earn. For those who are interested go to Google and look up D.I.R.T. OH and don't forget to get from each bank you have an a account in and send to revenue Yearly Interest Cert's. So you see it not as simple as some guys are saying.

5.

Pension:

The state pension in Ireland is paid to anyone who has worked all their lives and has paid a contribution each week while they are in employment, you need to have worked about 48 years to get full pension. At this moment it's worth about €200.00 per week = €800.00 per month its paid when you reach 66 years of age but who knows if it will be there in 3 years time. (I am not saying if it's right or wrong) I am just stating the facts

So the question i ask, is this a good time to Retire to Thailand. for me maybe it is.

Ok my plan is to go for say 3 months first move to different locations

Not to buy Property, just rent for the moment, learn more about money management, and keep a low profile regards showing your wealth,

Village life, maybe not for me. "Too many dogs",

Not to loan money. Anything else Guys and Gals?

Please be gentle this is big decision for me.

Thanks in advance

Pat

PS : Sorry about the long tread

Edited February 18, 2011 by newbepat

[tw25rw]

I would say it was good in that the exchange rate is fairly stable at a rate that is the most expensive it has been for westerners for a long time. It isn't likely to take another big tumble like 2-3 years ago when lots of people were caught out having assumed 70 or so baht to the gbp was the norm and always would be.

[RoyHarsip]

Thailand is a great place to retire to if :

1. you are extremely wealthy.. & i'm talking absolute minimum 1 million GBP+ to your name

2. you are very money/business savvy

3. you still have easy 'back up' exit options back to the west.. property etc..

If you are just an honest aged hard working class westerner who completely sells up & virtually burns his bridges with 'home' with just a few multiples of 10k GBP at your disposal, with not much knowledge of money management but with dreams of living in 'Paradise' as you perceive it & relying on nothing more than the pittance State Pension from your own Euro Country.... Then i would have to say no, don't do it... better to stay put and come for 3-6+ month holidays every year

Then again... if you like to gamble...

also it depends on the quality of life you want in your hard earned retirement...

[chooch7]

people move to thailand because they are not wealthy!

if you are wealthy los has litlle to offer!

[RoyHarsip]

people move to thailand because they are not wealthy!

you're right..!

i often see these backpacked types huddled around BTS stations begging for funds whilst clutching a worn out paperback copy of 'The Beach' in their mits, with the 'where is this bloody place then?' puzzlement on their faces...

[GreenSnapper]

people move to thailand because they are not wealthy!

if you are wealthy los has litlle to offer!

Lots of poor farangs here - that is true.

But also quite wealthy ones with multi million $/€ properties. Thais are successfully selling crappy condos to farangs for 500K € and up.

And don't underestimate the tax free status here which wealthy people profit most from.

[Robby nz]

Read through part one but didnt reply but will do now.

It depends on what you want to do here and where you want to do it

I am one of the ones who retired here on a basic income of pention and a bit of interest from investment.

I live a frugal lifestyle in a small town, dont drink or smoke and prefer to eat Thai food.

The 2 bed 2 story 2 bath house I rent costs 4000b PM and the locals think that is expensive.

However I do like to travel and do trips around the place regularly, just come back from 6 weeks touring the SI of NZ and will next month go to the south of Lao and have a look at the Bolovan platau and the 4000 islands.

After that I plan to do the north of Thailand where I havent been yet then cross over and do the North of Laos.

After that who knows.

If you want a luxuary condo in Pattaya, BKK or Pataya you will need a lot of euros.

From my way of thinking you have way enough for a good lifestyle here provided you dont get carried away with booze and the ladies.

Donts" Dont buy property, rent.

Dont buy a V hikle, unless you really need it, in most towns you dont because thete is great public transport.

Dont marry, unless you want someone to look after your money in your old age.

[Firefan]

The rules about separation/divorce in Ireland certainly sound unfair! Best of luck with that part.

With €500k and even a potential income stream of another €8-900/mth in couple of years - and after reading your posts - you will live a fine life in Thailand based on your assumptions (not buying right away in Thailand/living moderate life style etc.).

You certainly do not have to live on the country side - you can live in Bangkok or other city, and if use the 4-5% rule of thumb (safe withdrawal rate allowing for inflation) calculation just the €500k will earn you €20-25000/year which should allow for a fine (but not extravagant) life style.Naturally; if your investments do better than that, or if you think your life expectancy is shorter than most, you can decide to take out even more - the 4-5% is based on the worst historical 30 year survival scenario - nobody knows the future...

That leads to your next issue; how and where(through whom) to invest. Obviously keeping it in Ireland makes little sense for tax purposes if you live in Thailand.

Take your time to learn about investments (stocks/bonds/commodities/funds/ETFs Etc.). Don't make any hurried decisions. Seek professional advise for things that are too complicated to handle/learn by yourself (especially legal and tax issues) - but on the other hand try to avoid fee hungry financial "advisors" if possible (you can find other threads here where wrappers/portfolio bonds/admin fees/fund management fees add up to almost 10% the first year!).

Cheers!

[wamberal]

I wonder how many people who decide to retire in a place like Thailand, rather than in their home country, have really thought it through. One thing about a place like Ireland, or Austrlia (which is where I and my wife live) is that retired people are given some kind of safety net if things go really bad for them.

What happens if you end up having a stroke, or getting dementia, or contracting prostate cancer (like a lot of elderly men). Who will pay for your hospital/medical bills, who will pay for on going nursing care, etc etc.

Ironically, we are financially well able to cope in a place like Thailand, but my wife prefers life in Oz. She still has friends and family in Thailand, but she prefers the relatively safe, secure, and orderly life in a Western democracy.

Living in the Third World is great when you are young and strong and fit. Not so good when you are older and a bit unwell and need another hip replacement.

[clinique]

Hi again Pat,

I think your decision to do a 3 month trial is agood idea on the basis you have set out.

While you are in Thailand and as part of your decision making process it would be worthwhile for you, in my opinion, to spend a couple of days in Singapore and talk directly to several of the Private Banking units there. There is no need for you to talk with Financial Advisors when you can talk to the Banks directly - saves you a) being given advcie that suits the advisor rather than you and saves you a lot of unnecessary fees. I sugges this because also asking advice at home about investing in Asia is not the same as getting the advcie yourself first hand. And a trip to Singapore fora few days will set you back maybe Euro 500-, wellworth the spend in my view. i have no interest in recommendingthis other than Singapore is a safe place to put your money if you eventually decide to do so. if you want some names then please PM me, otherwise you can google Singapore banks and find them for yourself, as a well as Singapore banking regulations as well.

Other than that I would recommend that you do your own investigating when you are here , rather than take third party advice talk directly be it to banks, immigration, or whatever.

all the best

[Richb2004v2]

I wonder how many people who decide to retire in a place like Thailand, rather than in their home country, have really thought it through. One thing about a place like Ireland, or Austrlia (which is where I and my wife live) is that retired people are given some kind of safety net if things go really bad for them.

What happens if you end up having a stroke, or getting dementia, or contracting prostate cancer (like a lot of elderly men). Who will pay for your hospital/medical bills, who will pay for on going nursing care, etc etc.

Ironically, we are financially well able to cope in a place like Thailand, but my wife prefers life in Oz. She still has friends and family in Thailand, but she prefers the relatively safe, secure, and orderly life in a Western democracy.

Living in the Third World is great when you are young and strong and fit. Not so good when you are older and a bit unwell and need another hip replacement.

Sensible words of advice.

[clinique]

I wonder how many people who decide to retire in a place like Thailand, rather than in their home country, have really thought it through. One thing about a place like Ireland, or Austrlia (which is where I and my wife live) is that retired people are given some kind of safety net if things go really bad for them.

What happens if you end up having a stroke, or getting dementia, or contracting prostate cancer (like a lot of elderly men). Who will pay for your hospital/medical bills, who will pay for on going nursing care, etc etc.

Ironically, we are financially well able to cope in a place like Thailand, but my wife prefers life in Oz. She still has friends and family in Thailand, but she prefers the relatively safe, secure, and orderly life in a Western democracy.

Living in the Third World is great when you are young and strong and fit. Not so good when you are older and a bit unwell and need another hip replacement.

Sensible words of advice.

Yes agreed, sensible and should be taken into account.

Also to be taken into account should be the a) lifestyle choice and the cost of retirement in the 2 places contemplated, c) the fac that top grade medical insurance and nursing are available in Thailand.

Which is why the choice is not an easy one and depends on each individual or couples requirements and financial capabilities as well as their desire for a lifestyle.

My folks and elderly members of my family are retired and live in Western democracy/ies. They have the safety net, but at their own admission the cost of that safety net plus the cost of living is high and getting higher which effects their lifestyle. The lifestyle they have now is not the one they expectedto have when they were planning for their retirement.

In addition the Western democracies are now, due to their own ineptitude in managing their economines are "changing the rules" for retirement in the sense of age limits, benefits, taxation rates etc. etc.

So one needs to take all these things into account and make a balanced decision.

For me and mine, we would rather live the lifestyle we have here in LOS, where we manage our own requirements rather thna being controlled by governments who cannot and do not fulfill their promises. As for the medical aspect, we again would rather enjoy our lives here and deal with those circumstances when they arise with appropriate insurance cover , rather than take the safety net "in case" somethign happens, and be miserable every day and not enjoy our lifestlye.

Personal choice, wiegh the pro's and con's, as you see them.

[F1fanatic]

people move to thailand because they are not wealthy!

if you are wealthy los has litlle to offer!

I 'sort of' agree.

Thailand is v beautiful, laid-back and cheap, but so are many other Asian countries. Unfortunately, most other Asian countries don't have the Western ex-pats that sooner or later you will appreciate. They do however, have women that are in decent jobs and many even have their own car! These other countries are more welcoming to ex-pats because they are not known as places where it easy to find a good life.

On the down-side - a) Thais generally look-down on other nationalities (as most people do, but the Thais are more obvious) Dual-pricing is the norm here, but you'll eventually find places that know you well and are less obvious or even treat you equally c) IMO (lots will disagree), you're unlikely to find GENUINE Thai friends here d) There is a reason why the local women have a certain reputation... you are likely to lose lots of money sooner or later e) you need to buy health-care which is expensive unless you pay peanuts to a cheap supplier that won't pay out when needed.

On the up-side - a) Thailand is cheaper than your home country, unless you need to eat Western food (that is incredibly expensive!) depending on where you live, Thailand is v beautiful and offers a relaxed 'life-style' c) If you can avoid the pit-falls, living here is a joy compared to home.

Edited February 19, 2011 by F1fanatic

[F1fanatic]

p.s. 3 months is nowhere near long enough! You'll only begin to realise the pitfalls after a couple of years.

[jimbeam1]

Newbepat. I have not read past your opening post (did not get involved in any way with the first) From what you have said, it would appear that you have done your homework. We are about the same age, so there are two little pieces of advice I would give to you, 1/ Don't burn all your bridges in Ireland (keep a property) 2/ Do what you think is right for you. That's what I did. I did make the mistake (for me) of going to live in a village first. Since I moved out, all is good. Not quite perfect, but am working on it.

jb1

[oldgent]

Newbepat. I have not read past your opening post (did not get involved in any way with the first) From what you have said, it would appear that you have done your homework. We are about the same age, so there are two little pieces of advice I would give to you, 1/ Don't burn all your bridges in Ireland (keep a property) 2/ Do what you think is right for you. That's what I did. I did make the mistake (for me) of going to live in a village first. Since I moved out, all is good. Not quite perfect, but am working on it.

jb1

hey dont stop there tell us your story Jimbean1 now you have got me interested. Newbe pat is not as stupid as he lets on. come on

[LaoPo]

Hi Newbepat; nice to see you're back with a new topic; in case you missed this, below a link.

A few days ago I watched a documentary about young people leaving Ireland by the thousands since they see no future anymore; many of them are jobless for a long time already.

I think the Irish banks f_cked up big time and the people, staying behind, have to pay a very high price to pay for all the debts, left.

Good luck and make sure you put your money in AAA banks indeed although there's no guarantee for nothing.

Loss of faith in the Irish fairy tale

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/9401513.stm

LaoPo

[Firefan]

I agree - but at least better than the 2 week holiday trip where all is exotic and new Cheers!

p.s. 3 months is nowhere near long enough! You'll only begin to realise the pitfalls after a couple of years.

[violet]

By tgeezer:

Weather: I wouldn't say it is a good time to take a look at Thailand, with the rain imminent! Irish or not, this is not the place to be in the rainy season in my opinion. I spend five months here each year because I find the weather in UK more comfortable in the summer. Take the summer at home, make plans, research, and come over in October.

People: Can you live without people? Most of us who stay longterm have friends/ wife/ family to provide support and interest. How will it be for you?

Occupation; What do you plan to do all day?

Money: If you have enough for Ireland and can replicate the lifestyle then you have enough for Thailand, can you replicate the lifestyle?

I keep coming back to trying to imagine what life will be like for you, it depends on how you see yourself living here day to day. If you say what you imagine Thailand will be then it is easy for us to tell you if it is feasable.

[IanForbes]

I see some pretty good advice so far... and no negative shit either.

Like others have said, It takes a full year or so to get a the hang of living in Thailand permanently. I doubt if I could do it. I'm one of those half time visitors who only stays the winter in Thailand and the spring, summer, fall in Canada. I LOVE my life in all its complexity and excitement. I'm actually living two entirely different lives in parallel and love each equally and wouldn't want to change a thing..

I can't stress enough... RENT, DON'T BUY!

You have to be VERY business savy to make money in Thailand... and very often it's some shady deal with a shister. Accommodation is almost always as cheap to rent as it is to buy in Thailand... even if you COULD own the land... which you can't.

Another thing I would stress is REALLY examine yourself and understand what YOU may or may not like. It is very easy to get bored if you don't have a self absorbing interest in something... be it art, sports or travel. You CAN travel quite cheaply in Thailand.

And, for gawd's sake... don't fall in love. That is so easy to do in Thailand. Treat everyone with respect... even the hookers, and you'll do quite well.

Oh, and one other thing... DO COME DURING THE OFF SEASON WHEN IT'S HOT AND RAINING. That will give you a good idea whether you'll like it enough to stay.

Edited February 20, 2011 by IanForbes

[CaptHaddock]

Newbexpat,

With respect to your item #4 and the decision to live in Thailand, I can offer my perspective as an imminent US retiree planning to move to Thailand later this year. Once you stop working you no longer have the ability to increase wage income to meet an increased need. But since you can still lower your cost of living by relocating, this option is your single, most valuable financial resource, more important that investing since the benefit is more certain and less likely to result in financial ruin. So, from that point of view moving to a lower cost of living country like Thailand could be the best step you can make, financially. But there are caveats. The first is that if your assets remain at home in euros your financial outcome will probably be dominated by exchange rate fluctuations much more than either inflation or your return on investment. The obvious solution of transferring assets into baht so that your assets are in the same currency as your liabilities, is not at all palatable, at least to me, because of the non-convertibility of the baht and the fact that you will never have the right to live in Thailand. On the other hand, the baht, since it is effectively tied to the yuan, seems likely to appreciate over time against the euro and the dollar. So, that's problem number one. If I didn't have a Thai wife I might consider retiring to Ecuador where the national currency is the US dollar because of the benefit of eliminating long-term currency risk.

You are completely correct that the world of financial advice is indeed a mine field. I speak as someone who worked in the investment industry here in New York for many years, although as an IT guy, not as an advisor of any kind. Most of what you will encounter as investment advice is ignorant beyond comprehension when it is not an outright attempt at theft. None of the experts whom you read or encounter will have interests that align entirely with your own. So, you have to educate yourself and depend on your intelligence and analytical skills. I have been working at this task for years by reading investment books and following the financial and economic news. Most of what I read is US-centric and so may not be very useful to you. I can partially recommend one book on retirement planning by a Canadian that may have some applicability, "Unveling the Retirment Myth", by Jame C. Otar. You can buy it from amazon.com for $50 or get the pdf from Otar's website for $6 (http://retirementoptimizer.com). If you have an engineering bent you might especially enjoy the book. One of the points that he, and US economists such as Larry Kotlikoff, makes is that a portfolio during retirement, when you are drawing down assets, behaves differently that the same portfolio during the accumulation phase, when you are contributing. The result is that if a retiree suffers large losses early during retirement his portfolio is not likely to recover and will probably run out too soon. From this point of view not losing money in the early retirement years is more important than maximizing return. Otar gives graphs of probably outcomes in this scenario that might keep you awake at night. My recommendation for this book is only partial because I do not endorse all of the strategies that Otar proposes, but the book is valuable because it is the only one to my knowledge that focuses on portfolio longevity during the distribution phase, rather than accumulation.

So, my advice is to educate yourself by reading the best quality writers on retirement, financial planning, and investment. And avoid taking risks of losses during your early retirement years until your education has progressed sufficiently. For all of which you will be the judge.

[GreenSnapper]

Very good advice from CaptHaddock!

Forget about advisers or "AAA"-banks. Educate yourself instead.

And save your assets from your ex wife. This can ruin your whole retirement immediately.

First relocate your assets outside the EU and get a new passport. Get legal advice about the best way to escape fleecing from divorce.

[newbepat]

Very good advice from CaptHaddock!

Forget about advisers or "AAA"-banks. Educate yourself instead.

And save your assets from your ex wife. This can ruin your whole retirement immediately.

First relocate your assets outside the EU and get a new passport. Get legal advice about the best way to escape fleecing from divorce.

Sorry but why get a new passport?

Edited February 20, 2011 by newbepat

[GreenSnapper]

Sorry but why get a new passport?

That for the next years you don't need to visit your embassy once you are out of your home country. Get a passport with max number of visa pages, if there is an option.

[jombom]

Well Pat, you asked us to be nice with you and that's ok.

On an earlier thread you were trying to sell land in Mukdahan. Link below.

http://www.thaivisa....48#entry4172348

From your opening post, this statement is highly dubious.

''The state pension in Ireland is paid to anyone who has worked all their lives and has paid a contribution each week while they are in employment, you need to have worked about 48 years to get full pension. ''

My understanding is less than 30 years.

From your various posts, e.g. divorce, hassle with women in Ireland and Thailand, land sales, building a house on land you might sell etc etc, it is reasonable to deduce that you are experiencing severe stress.

You have been given excellent advice by others. All I can add, is to give yourself chill-out time.

i.e. no serious decisions, relax on a beach, give booze a rest, and try and rediscover what Pat is about.

[newbepat]

Well Pat, you asked us to be nice with you and that's ok.

On an earlier thread you were trying to sell land in Mukdahan. Link below.

http://www.thaivisa....48#entry4172348

From your opening post, this statement is highly dubious.

''The state pension in Ireland is paid to anyone who has worked all their lives and has paid a contribution each week while they are in employment, you need to have worked about 48 years to get full pension. ''

My understanding is less than 30 years.

From your various posts, e.g. divorce, hassle with women in Ireland and Thailand, land sales, building a house on land you might sell etc etc, it is reasonable to deduce that you are experiencing severe stress.

You have been given excellent advice by others. All I can add, is to give yourself chill-out time.

i.e. no serious decisions, relax on a beach, give booze a rest, and try and rediscover what Pat is about.

[newbepat]

Well Pat, you asked us to be nice with you and that's ok.

On an earlier thread you were trying to sell land in Mukdahan. Link below.

http://www.thaivisa....48#entry4172348

From your opening post, this statement is highly dubious.

''The state pension in Ireland is paid to anyone who has worked all their lives and has paid a contribution each week while they are in employment, you need to have worked about 48 years to get full pension. ''

My understanding is less than 30 years.

From your various posts, e.g. divorce, hassle with women in Ireland and Thailand, land sales, building a house on land you might sell etc etc, it is reasonable to deduce that you are experiencing severe stress.

You have been given excellent advice by others. All I can add, is to give yourself chill-out time.

i.e. no serious decisions, relax on a beach, give booze a rest, and try and rediscover what Pat is about.

Not sure of the point you are trying to make Jumbo. Yes trying to sell land in Mukdahan I was, How is that dubious?

As regards pension. Simple start work at say 18 years of age work for 48 years = retire @ 66 years. Understand Now?

Give booze a rest, where did you get that from, ok i am Irish, but i dont drink booze, maybe a little wine with my dinner ,

Yes maybe i was a little stressed, does that mean i can't ask a question on Thaivisa

Thanks for your comments

Pat

[flying]

You have probably seen this Pat....

Irish banks spark surge in emergency ECB borrowing

[newbepat]

Jumbo, try to keep up, if you read my very first post : Is this a good time to retire to Thailand Part 1

You would have seen i did state i had land in Thailand

(I have land about (6 rai) in Issan, don't know why i said that, its in her name, its in the sticks.)

Thats what i wrote

Pat :jap:

[newbepat]

You have probably seen this Pat....

Irish banks spark surge in emergency ECB borrowing

A sure i know some of the banks here are bust, The goverment and the EU are pumping money day and night just to keep them afloat.

No wonder i am stressed, some guys on here thinks i am drunk and i making this up

Pat