Red Shirt Leader Jatuporn To Reveal 'Solid Evidence' Of Abhisit's UK Citizenship

[whybother]

ICC will be duty bound to look at the charges. First is he recognised as a British Citizen, if no it goes no further. If yes then we look at the evidence, if there is sufficient we will send him to trial.

Who's " we "?

ICC

You're part of the ICC????

[Nisa]

You do not have to be a citizen of country to obtain a passport. It is up to the country to decide who gets a passport and the conditions for issuance.

Must be some extraordinary circumstances to allow such a thing (maybe something to do with a diplomatic passport?) . In the US you need to prove you are a citizen to get one and would imagine that as being the case in most countries.

[TheLaughingMan]

'crimes against humanity'!

the man did everything possible to stop the loss of life and keep everything peaceful. its the red shirt leaders that are responsible for the blood.

Yeah right, they shot they're self just to get thier 15 minutes of fame. :cheesy: :jerk:

God this makes me so vexxed, why do people do this? Im no defender of any of the thai powers, they are all idiots and corrupt. But to ignore all the facts and say shit like this is just wrong and destructive. THEY KILLED SOLDIERS FIRST. You totally ignore that, they forced violence. In any country in the world violence would have been used to clear out terorists that were killing not only soldiers but also CIVILIANS. Of course red shirts got killed after that, jesus.

[truethailand]

For the purpose of this Statute, "crime against humanity" means any of the following acts when committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack:

^[17]

(a)

Murder

; (

Extermination

; ©

Enslavement

; (d) Deportation or forcible transfer of population; (e)

Imprisonment

or other severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of fundamental rules of international law; (f)

Torture

; (g)

Rape

,

sexual slavery

, enforced

prostitution

, forced

pregnancy

,

enforced sterilization

, or any other form of

sexual violence

of comparable gravity; (h) Persecution against any identifiable group or collectivity on political,

racial

, national, ethnic,

cultural

,

religious

,

gender

as defined in paragraph 3, or other grounds that are universally recognized as impermissible under international law, in connection with any act referred to in this paragraph or any crime within the jurisdiction of the Court; (i)

Enforced disappearance

of persons; (j) The

crime of apartheid

; (k) Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health.

e,f,h and i

Edited February 19, 2011 by truethailand

[whybother]

Jatuporn, he will volunteer to be put in jail too

:clap2:

This is very strange..But it appears much of the Thai population..is completely unawares of Abhisit's background.

I am not sure if there is censorship on the website Wikipedia...but he has a substantive entry there..as with many prominant Thai people and subjects.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abhisit_Vejjajiva (copy and paste to open in search bar)

Inspection will show Abhisit is from a very good stock..and earned outstanding academic achievements..which have fuelled his rapid success in Public Life.

Furthermore..he has an English Birth Cerificate..British passport..enjoying all the rights of such ..and received the finest education at Eton and Oxford.

Better informed Thais have told me that Abhisit attained his Thai Citizenship status by living in Thailand...to be naturalised over 10 year residence..to qualify.....Similar system to how foreighners in UK attain British citizenship.

However in many people views...regardless of this...Your nationality always is the country in which you were born...even if both your parents from another country.

But whatever your view..one has to concede that Abhisit is from good parents..and has achieved outstanding academic levels to pave his success in Public life.

I fail to see what advantage Red Shirts will achieve with their point...unless they are Racist and have a problem with The English.

Where does it say he has a British passport?

[w11guy]

Hang on a minute, if Abbhisit still holds UK Citizenship (or duel citizenship). Does that mean there's a Brit in charge of running Thailand?? Surely that can't be correct. Foreigners (which Brits are, like all the white skinned devils here) can't own land, but can run the country?? I thought you had to be a full on 100% Thai national with a degree just to be able to get registered as a politician in a political party to run in local elections.

You thought wrong. Tou've obviously been reading too many expat comments on thaivisa. Don't you realise that most of it is just jaded old white guys making things up just to fit in with their own prejudices?

[Farang0tang]

I believe McCain was born on a US Military base.

Yes he claimed he was but there were doubters and they actually got the US Senate to approve a resolution recognizing McCain as a "natural born citizen"

Anyway ... didn't want to get too off topic with this but was simply pointing out how Thailand seems more lax in who they let run the country in terms of citizenship / place of birth.

But you said in earlier post - "US a president has to be born in the US"

[truethailand]

ICC will be duty bound to look at the charges. First is he recognised as a British Citizen, if no it goes no further. If yes then we look at the evidence, if there is sufficient we will send him to trial.

Who's " we "?

ICC

You're part of the ICC????

Logical really... but if you think the ICC will procede like the Thai courts do you are going to get a rude awakening. You are not actually objecting to the content of what I wrote just a poor attempt at a put down. Try harder next time

A couple of phone calls from the Hague and the answer about citizenship will be known.

Edited February 19, 2011 by truethailand

[w11guy]

Nothing really new, he is not Thai anyway but Chinese and just of the few elite Chinese that been running Thailand and hold most of the wealth and have a trickle down effect to the native Thais.

This is how the BNP talk in the UK. Are you a member? The Chinese do not run Thailand. Have you ever met any of these Chinese that you think run Thailand or are you just making all this up? Typical of the nonsensical comments on here.

[DP25]

I believe McCain was born on a US Military base.

Yes he claimed he was but there were doubters and they actually got the US Senate to approve a resolution recognizing McCain as a "natural born citizen"

Anyway ... didn't want to get too off topic with this but was simply pointing out how Thailand seems more lax in who they let run the country in terms of citizenship / place of birth.

But you said in earlier post - "US a president has to be born in the US"

Panama Canal Zone was considered to qualify, it was a US territory until 1979.

[w11guy]

Does that mean he's also 10 points down on the maturity development index?

I transferred from US school system to the British school system when I was mid-teens. Sorry to say, it felt like I was stuck with a group of 10 year olds.

If your educational standard was that of a 10 year old, you would have been put in a class of 10 year olds. So sounds like you were in the right class. It sounds like you must have had sub-normal intelligence during your teens. In fact, it seem like it's still the case. LOL.

[Scott]

Please use the correct name of politicians and former politicians.

[truethailand]

Nothing really new, he is not Thai anyway but Chinese and just of the few elite Chinese that been running Thailand and hold most of the wealth and have a trickle down effect to the native Thais.

This is how the BNP talk in the UK. Are you a member? The Chinese do not run Thailand. Have you ever met any of these Chinese that you think run Thailand or are you just making all this up? Typical of the nonsensical comments on here.

Nationality is not relevant but if you so sure tell me a politician in Thailand that has not come from parents with Chinese decent. Have you seen the current cabinet it looks like a road map of Beijing

[w11guy]

No way is he British, or he would have sorted the stupid visa rules out!

Which stupid visa rules?

[wlcart]

Where did the native Thai people come from in the first instance

From a girl named Lucy in Africa 3.5 million years ago, just like the rest of us??????

[Farang0tang]

Where did the native Thai people come from in the first instance

From a girl named Lucy in Africa 3.5 million years ago, just like the rest of us??????

Slapper!

[truethailand]

Its just occurred to me about this Amsterdam chappie. Would he seriously present evidence to the ICC without concrete proof about Abhisits nationality or citizenship. He would look foolish if he did. I dont think he wants to appear foolish in the worlds eyes. Could be a time bomb ticking here

[bubba]

Have any of the countries where Thaksin now is a citizen ratified their membership of ICC? If so, let's give Mr. Amsterdam a call :jap:

Yes, Montenegro was a signatory to the ICC Rome Statute. Perhaps Amsterdam should be careful about where he goes with this and what precedents he sets, as his client could well be brought up on charges. As far back as 2006, there have been calls to prosecute Thaksin for crimes against humanity, with reference to the estimated 2,275 (according to Human Rights Watch) extrajudicial executions that occurred during his watch. There is also the issue of the 84 muslim peaceful protesters who were murdered by stacking them into the back of army trucks and allowed to suffocate.

But then, here is a judge at ICC who says that ICC has no jurisdiction over Thailand anyway:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/11/23/headlines/headlines_30019735.php

This is all probably just more of Amsterdam's sensationalist grandstanding.

[thaigold]

I fail to understand how his dual nationality status effects his ability to perform his duties as prime minister. Some say there are highly placed Thais who were born in the U.K. and the United States, who suffer no loss of social standing, including the attendant prestige, honor, and salutations due. To many this is just another political red herring - it's politics.

Edited February 19, 2011 by metisdead
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[whybother]

Its just occurred to me about this Amsterdam chappie. Would he seriously present evidence to the ICC without concrete proof about Abhisits nationality or citizenship. He would look foolish if he did. I dont think he wants to appear foolish in the worlds eyes. Could be a time bomb ticking here

Yes, he would. He looks foolish anyway.

[truethailand]

Have any of the countries where Thaksin now is a citizen ratified their membership of ICC? If so, let's give Mr. Amsterdam a call :jap:

Yes, Montenegro was a signatory to the ICC Rome Statute. Perhaps Amsterdam should be careful about where he goes with this and what precedents he sets, as his client could well be brought up on charges. As far back as 2006, there have been calls to prosecute Thaksin for crimes against humanity, with reference to the estimated 2,275 (according to Human Rights Watch) extrajudicial executions that occurred during his watch. There is also the issue of the 84 muslim peaceful protesters who were murdered by stacking them into the back of army trucks and allowed to suffocate.

But then, here is a judge at ICC who says that ICC has no jurisdiction over Thailand anyway:

http://www.nationmul...es_30019735.php

This is all probably just more of Amsterdam's sensationalist grandstanding.

Just read the link and cant find any reference to a quote from an ICC judge, can you highlight it for me. Thanks

[Nisa]

I believe McCain was born on a US Military base.

Yes he claimed he was but there were doubters and they actually got the US Senate to approve a resolution recognizing McCain as a "natural born citizen"

Anyway ... didn't want to get too off topic with this but was simply pointing out how Thailand seems more lax in who they let run the country in terms of citizenship / place of birth.

But you said in earlier post - "US a president has to be born in the US"

Panama Canal Zone was considered to qualify, it was a US territory until 1979.

Not to mention he was never president as well as his being born on US Military Base as well as his and/or his supporters still feeling a need to get the US Senate to recognize he should be considered "natural born" in case he ever did get elected president.

Edited February 19, 2011 by Nisa

[truethailand]

"He urged the interim government to ratify the International Criminal Court (ICC) immediately with a retroactive clause so that the ICC can be allowed to look into the case."

This interim government would be the one created after the coup. Why do you think it was not ratified. Yes because if it had been ratified in 2006 there would be many people up on charges with Abhisit and we would not be having this debate on citizenship

[truethailand]

Its just occurred to me about this Amsterdam chappie. Would he seriously present evidence to the ICC without concrete proof about Abhisits nationality or citizenship. He would look foolish if he did. I dont think he wants to appear foolish in the worlds eyes. Could be a time bomb ticking here

Yes, he would. He looks foolish anyway.

Inspired reposte...

[whybother]

You're part of the ICC????

Logical really... but if you think the ICC will procede like the Thai courts do you are going to get a rude awakening. You are not actually objecting to the content of what I wrote just a poor attempt at a put down. Try harder next time

A couple of phone calls from the Hague and the answer about citizenship will be known.

It's logical that you're part of the ICC???

Anyway, the citizenship is irrelevant. The ICC won't look at the case anyway. Which part of the "crimes against humanity" description that you posted earlier has Abhisit committed?

There were violent protests. The leaders of those protests are in jail awaiting trial. Next.

[harry9951]

Bangkok Pundit did a piece on this a week ago. As Abhisit was born in the UK and his parents werent diplomats then he is a British citizen, whether he likes it or not. No proof anywhere that he has ever revoked his citizenship. He has never denied it

Does Bangkok Pundit have access to Google?

Abhisit denied this later, saying he was not a UK citizen.

http://www.nationmul...s-30147636.html

If Abhisit is British, a claim he denies, attorneys hired by his wealthiest political opponent claim he can be tried for “crimes against humanity” in International Criminal Courts.

http://www.globalpos...ish-citizenship

And how many passports does <Thaksin> have?

Edited February 19, 2011 by craigt3365
Changed Spelling of name

[truethailand]

You're part of the ICC????

Logical really... but if you think the ICC will procede like the Thai courts do you are going to get a rude awakening. You are not actually objecting to the content of what I wrote just a poor attempt at a put down. Try harder next time

A couple of phone calls from the Hague and the answer about citizenship will be known.

It's logical that you're part of the ICC???

Anyway, the citizenship is irrelevant. The ICC won't look at the case anyway. Which part of the "crimes against humanity" description that you posted earlier has Abhisit committed?

There were violent protests. The leaders of those protests are in jail awaiting trial. Next.

Its not for us to decide the legality of the submission, greater honest men than us will do that. I quoted 4 sections, which according to the uncorroborated statements of Amsterdams witnesses, the case may procede. When the submission is made to the ICC the witnesses names will be known and not before, so dont mock the identity of because they are hidden by numbers, there is dark forces operating in Thailand and a few witnesses may take an unscheduled long term holiday in some bridge footings.

Yes there was violence, but we need to know the sequence of events that brought about this violence. If state media is your main source of information you will not get a full picture for obvious reasons. The leaders are in jail awaiting trial.... cant have a trial without being charged first. 9 months in jail and no charges and all legal due to some purposterous Internal security law. Please tell me why The ICC will not look at this case

[Geratul]

Well, luckely he got UK-education... with as result that he can speak English in a modern world ) a lack of many Thai... So, to be shocked he didn't received Thai education is in this case overreacting and open for him only more possibilities, also after his political career. Many foreign companies are waiting for him ...

So, see it also in a positive way that Mr. Abisit is western educated which can also be good for Thailand. But no, here in Thailand people don't want democracy, but more a dictator who reign with a iron first. If not, act like a democracy and let elections choose the leaders of this country. Not by red, yellow, black, purple, white, grey or whatever color shirts. Allegations about now his UK-citizenship is not to blame Mr. Abisit, but more the way how the responsible Thai officials investigate it's own politicians to avoid this kind of issues.

Edited February 19, 2011 by Geratul

[travelmann]

Hang on a minute, if Abbhisit still holds UK Citizenship (or duel citizenship). Does that mean there's a Brit in charge of running Thailand?? Surely that can't be correct. Foreigners (which Brits are, like all the white skinned devils here) can't own land, but can run the country?? I thought you had to be a full on 100% Thai national with a degree just to be able to get registered as a politician in a political party to run in local elections.

Dont be so silly ita the size of your wallet not colour of your skin that counts......anyway that would be racist wouldnt it and w e cant have that now!!

[craigt3365]

Panama Canal Zone was considered to qualify, it was a US territory until 1979.

Not to mention he was never president as well as his being born on US Military Base as well as his and/or his supporters still feeling a need to get the US Senate to recognize he should be considered "natural born" in case he ever did get elected president.

Way off topic, but:

"Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth."[28]

But:

According to an April 2000 report by the Congressional Research Service, most constitutional scholars interpret Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution as including citizens born outside the United States to parents who are U.S. citizens under the “natural born” requirement. This same CRS report also asserts that citizens born in the District of Columbia, Guam, Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands are legally defined as "natural born" citizens and are, therefore, also eligible to be elected President.[27]

I was born outside the US, to US Citizens and I am a natural born citizen.