Goat Cheese Opportunity

[goatfarmer]

I started a goat farm as a hobby a couple of years ago. We make goat cheese. Our customers include some very fine restaurants and we now have orders from five star hotels. Needless to say, the cheese is very good.

The operation has now grown to a point that it is too big for a hobby. I am therefore willing to hand over the business to the right person. Interested persons should be willing to live near Pattaya, be able to speak a bit of thai, love working with animals, have a good taste for cheese, have a bit of capital, and have ambition to make the business work.

[simon43]

Excellent business!! And I assume that you are Thai?? (Since this employment sector is illegal for non-Thais)

[goatfarmer]

Excellent business!! And I assume that you are Thai?? (Since this employment sector is illegal for non-Thais)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First I heard there was a 'goat cheese sector', unless you are referring to some other "this"?

[goatfarmer]

Under Royal Decree B.E. 2522 (1979) the participation of foreigners in farm supervision including animal breeding is restricted to 'specialized skills'. There is no prohibition on food production in general, no prohibition on cheese production or marketing in particular. (Unless there is another relevant law). I think we could work with that. Thanks for your help S.

[simon43]

Extract from prohibited employment sectors for non-thais:

Labouring except for labouring in fisheries under (2).

Agriculture, animal husbandry, forestry, fisheries, except for work requiring special expertise, farm supervision or labour in fisheries especially marine fisheries.

Now, is rearing goats not animal husbandry? Is it a task requiring special skills? In any case, whilst you say that you have performed this task as a hobby, it still requires a WP, which I don't think you will be able to get as a non-Thai.

I'm not trying to be a kill-joy! Just pointing out that you could land yourself in hot water if you continue doing what you are doing without the correct documents

[goatfarmer]

Extract from prohibited employment sectors for non-thais:

Labouring except for labouring in fisheries under (2).

Agriculture, animal husbandry, forestry, fisheries, except for work requiring special expertise, farm supervision or labour in fisheries especially marine fisheries.

Now, is rearing goats not animal husbandry?  Is it a task requiring special skills?

Dairy goat farming at international standard requires very special skills which are not well known in this country. As evidence, I have students from agricultural universities visiting for months at a time to learn these skills. We would certainly apply for this exception.

In any case, whilst you say that you have performed this task as a hobby, it still requires a WP, which I don't think you will be able to get as a non-Thai.

I do not work on the farm. I have set up the farm and give advice. But the work is done entirely by thai workers who share all the profits.

I'm not trying to be a kill-joy!  Just pointing out that you could land yourself in hot water if you continue doing what you are doing without the correct documents

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are absolutely right. The matter needs to be investigated. But I am confident that we can overcome this challenge and set up the operation legally. I have a few ideas, which I will discuss with interested potential investors, several of whom have already contacted me. Thanks for your concern Mr S.

(Please note that I have answered your specific questions in the body of your quote, above.)

[simon43]

Good luck! I love goat's cheese so I hope you get a good result on this one. In any case, the restrictions only apply to non-Thais. i'm sure you could structure your business so that you are still the owner and beneficiary of the business whilst employing only Thais where non-Thais are denied cannot be employed.

[Digger]

Extract from prohibited employment sectors for non-thais:

Labouring except for labouring in fisheries under (2).

Agriculture, animal husbandry, forestry, fisheries, except for work requiring special expertise, farm supervision or labour in fisheries especially marine fisheries.

Now, is rearing goats not animal husbandry?  Is it a task requiring special skills?  In any case, whilst you say that you have performed this task as a hobby, it still requires a WP, which I don't think you will be able to get as a non-Thai.

I'm not trying to be a kill-joy!  Just pointing out that you could land yourself in hot water if you continue doing what you are doing without the correct documents

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Simon - And running 3 bars in Bkk, with girls avilable for takeout is of course a permitted occupation !!!!!!

Interesting that you take this stance, given the amount of effort that you put into helping your wife, even if it is a hobby.

Edited September 11, 2005 by Digger

[goatfarmer]

Good luck!  I love goat's cheese so I hope you get a good result on this one.  In any case, the restrictions only apply to non-Thais.  i'm sure you could structure your business so that you are still the owner and beneficiary of the business whilst employing only Thais where non-Thais are denied cannot be employed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for your encouragement. My experience of doing things in thailand: "Where there's a will there's a way". They like to make things difficult, but not impossible. At present, I'm not even the beneficiary of the business and I'm happy to stay that way. My main concern is the welfare of my goats and the success our cheese. Golden opportunity for someone.

[Digger]

By the way, any chance of expanding your product offering to provide decent mature/vintage cheddars - very difficult to get and when you can its very very expensive.

Its easy to set up the business by the way. You structure it as the MD, offering the knowledge and business expertise. Your Thai staff do the legwork. Work permit office in Chonburi is looking for a decent size capital investment and good employment prospects PLUS you should mention about imparting knowledge to the Thai staff with the ultimate aim of one day exporting the product. You must be set up for VAT and be very transparent. You will not have a problem getting a work permit if you follow this route. By the way, you will likely achieve a better price if your planning to sell it up, if you do these steps first. Once a work permit is authorised, its rarely stopped, unless you do not meet the tax paying requirements, employing correct number of people etc.

[goatfarmer]

By the way, any chance of expanding your product offering to provide decent mature/vintage cheddars - very difficult to get and when you can its very very expensive.

Its easy to set up the business by the way.  You structure it as the MD, offering the knowledge and business expertise.  Your Thai staff do the legwork.  Work permit office in Chonburi is looking for a decent size capital investment and good employment prospects PLUS you should mention about imparting knowledge to the Thai staff with the ultimate aim of one day exporting the product.  You must be set up for VAT and be very transparent.    You will not have a problem getting a work permit if you follow this route.  By the way, you will likely achieve a better price if your planning to sell it up, if you do these steps first.  Once a work permit is authorised, its rarely stopped, unless you do not meet the tax paying requirements, employing correct number of people etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, unlikely to branch out to other cheeses in the near term. Our Number 3 cheese is a star. We will stick with what we do well, at least until the market is saturated. We have barely scratched the surface.

No question about imparting knowledge to Thai staff and visiting students. Exporting is definitely a prospect. Thanks for your encouragement.

[raro]

Legal stuff aside...was your cheese a while ago available at Carrefour in Pattaya? It was great! What happened? I haven't seen it since...is it available somewhere else?

[simon43]

Hi Digger - 'my' bars are not owned by me at all. They are 100% in my wife's name (my decision...). That's because I have my own businesses back in the UK and I certainly don't need the hassle of running Bangkok bars in person.

As to helping her out, the only helping you will ever see me do is helping to drink the beer I'm aware of the legal implications etc of farang working in bars. I did have a WP until recently (as a sofware guy for my own Thai company), but the bars are my wife's business. I just provide moral support (hmm...is a WP needed for that?)

[goatfarmer]

Legal stuff aside...was your cheese a while ago available at Carrefour in Pattaya? It was great! What happened? I haven't seen it since...is it available somewhere else?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It was, briefly. Carrefour have requested our cheese for their branches all over Thailand. But we just can't produce enough to sell in supermarkets. We've stopped selling in Best and Friendship too. Sorry about that. It's available in various restaurants in Pattaya and Bangkok and a certain five star hotel in Bangkok. But I think the forum rules prohibit me from mentioning them. Thanks for your kind words about our cheese.

[HarryHacker]

….hey Goatfarmer, well done for starting a unique business here in Thailand. If I was not so damm busy I would surely contact you to discuss possibilities!

Good luck to yah!

[terdsak_12]

Sounds like a pretty decent plan, nice to hear someone doing somethung unique, and not following the old method, opening bars etc YAWN. Hope you find someone useful, and it works out well for you.

Similar to the Farang in Hua Hin who breeds Turkeys all year, and cleans up in December at all the hotels etc.

Too many people on this board too eager to shoot anyone down with a buisiness plan.

[mbkudu]

I started a goat farm as a hobby a couple of years ago. We make goat cheese. Our customers include some very fine restaurants and we now have orders from five star hotels. Needless to say, the cheese is very good.

The operation has now grown to a point that it is too big for a hobby. I am therefore willing to hand over the business to the right person. Interested persons should be willing to live near Pattaya, be able to speak a bit of thai, love working with animals, have a good taste for cheese, have a bit of capital, and have ambition to make the business work.

Anybody here read, 'Pattaya 24/7,' by Christopher G. Moore? In it there is an eccentric goat farmer who has a large estate on the outskirts of Pattaya where he and his Thai staff raise goats and make goat cheese.

[Khun Larry]

Too many people on this board too eager to shoot anyone down with a buisiness plan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aye Aye

[simon43]

Too many people on this board too eager to shoot anyone down with a buisiness plan

[\quote]

Or perhaps there are well-meaning people who don't want to see a good business idea clobbered through ignorance of Thai law. This idea does sound good, so I for one would not want to see it fail because some Thai with a grudge sees the OP looking after his goats and tips off the authorities

[Darknight]

As to helping her out, the only helping you will ever see me do is helping to drink the beer  I'm aware of the legal implications etc of farang working in bars. I did have a WP until recently (as a sofware guy for my own Thai company), but the bars are my wife's business. I just provide moral support (hmm...is a WP needed for that?) 

YEp you need a work permit for that.

the law says something like "any work be it physical or mental, payed or non-payed is subject to a work permit".

So providing moral support is working.

I advise you now to stop thinking you're working.....

[simon43]

OK - I've changed my signature to make it more appropriate!!

[goatfarmer]

Anybody here read, 'Pattaya 24/7,' by Christopher G. Moore? In it there is an eccentric goat farmer who has a large estate on the outskirts of Pattaya where he and his Thai staff raise goats and make goat cheese.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wonder who that might be?

[mbkudu]

Anybody here read, 'Pattaya 24/7,' by Christopher G. Moore? In it there is an eccentric goat farmer who has a large estate on the outskirts of Pattaya where he and his Thai staff raise goats and make goat cheese.

I wonder who that might be?

Hmmm...Is rather coincidental, isn't it?

[goatfarmer]

Simon43 asks whether goat rearing is a special skill, such as would allow foreigners to participate in the otherwise forbidden business of animal husbandry. I suggested dairy goat farming is such a skill. I have an even better suggestion: we have been very successful in breeding females. Our May-born goat kids were female to a ratio of 3:1 (the ratio according to nature is 1:1). Our current "litter", born these last two weeks, is 5 females to 1 male! This remarkable breeding skill could have far-reaching application.

[think_too_mut]

My gf had a seminar work about goat milk and cheese.

Could be an academic exercise but it made it into the marketing studies.

All the best to the OP's venture.

[jayenram]

Why is there suddenly an prolifery (sp) of posts referring to goats?

One of my best friends is a goat.

[Totster]

Why is there suddenly an prolifery (sp) of posts referring to goats?

One of my best friends is a goat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alright .. no need to get your goat up..

totster

[goatfarmer]

Why is there suddenly an prolifery (sp) of posts referring to goats?

One of my best friends is a goat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice goat pic you have. That's a Toggenburg. I should probably pull my finger out and post a pic

[raro]

Hello Goatfarmer,

too bad that your cheese is off the shelves now. Maybe you can pm me and surround this way the forum rules?

Cheese

raro

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Why is there suddenly an prolifery (sp) of posts referring to goats?

One of my best friends is a goat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Poor ole Yorky