Five Phuket Tourists Die In Cha-Am Horror Crash

[alina]

Five Phuket tourists die in Cha-am horror crash

PHUKET: Five tourists returning home from a holiday in Phuket were killed yesterday morning when their minivan slammed into the back of an 18-wheel truck on a highway in Cha-am District, Petchaburi province.

I think it more accurate to state that 5 Staff from a Bank in Bangkok were killed while travelling back from Phuket

Rescue foundation workers had to use "jaws of life" cutting tools to free the injured passengers from the wreckage.

Does it matter what tools were used to cut them free, what is the relevance in naming the tool used???????????????

Cha-am Police have taken him into custody and say they will charge him with causing death and injury by negligent driving.

About time these minivan drivers were dealt with, bloody crazy.

Commiserations to those who died or injured.

Edited February 23, 2011 by alina

[monspencer]

Why all the inane comments about whether or not the unfortunate victims were tourists or not? Jeez!!!

Without reading every comment in the (so far) 7 pages of this thread, and without wanting to judge the driver, I have to say that I hate driving at night time here, Why? Because of the idiots coming towards me with their main beams on, blinding me, as this minivan driver said happened to him. However, I do slow down and I flash my beam at them, though usually to no avail.

And as for the other idiots driving without rear lights (usually motorbikes or those motorbikes with side bits attached) along poorly lit or unlit roads,... a recipe for an accident

Amazing though that the driver escaped as the front of the minivan was 'crushed', after 'hurtling' towards and 'slamming' into the back of the truck.

But whatever the reason for this tragedy, and as I said, without wanting to judge the driver, my thoughts go out to the families of the dead and injured.

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts have been removed.

[ginjag]

Road improvements as well as proper enforcement takes money including paying police more than 7k baht a month (starting par for cop in BKK) as well as paying everyone involved with improving and monitoring road conditions more to eliminate the accepted and understood corruption. This would mean more taxes and more enforcement and regulations across the board as well as more reporting and accountability. As these things begin to happen they spread thought out society.

Where is the evidence of any headway being made?

The facts are there is absolutely no headway being made. Things are becoming gradually worse and worse including a worsening of corruption since the 2006 coup.

Since this topic is about road deaths / accidents ....

Year....... Deaths.......Registered Vehicles

2003.......14,446.........26,378,862

2004 .......13,766....... 20,624,719*

2005 .......12,858....... 22,571,062*

2006 .......12,069 .......24,807,297*

* New definitions of "registered vehicles".

I couldn't find anything for after 2006 but I imagine you will find fault in these numbers that show the trend of vehicles on the road increasing while deaths deaths have gone down in Thailand.

No problem with your stats Nisa, ONLY they are 6 years out of date--- seems a bit strange that the stats end when the deaths start to rise,.....look esewhere, if your giving the figures give the ones thats new. Another point, registered vehicles--55555 Ha, how many deaths then are from unregistered, double up-the figures is about right. and are these outright deaths at the scene. what about the ones that die after a day or so.. double up again the figures again. theres your stats again for you---use them as a guide only. what info is inputted saved-you can only get out.

[Nisa]

Road improvements as well as proper enforcement takes money including paying police more than 7k baht a month (starting par for cop in BKK) as well as paying everyone involved with improving and monitoring road conditions more to eliminate the accepted and understood corruption. This would mean more taxes and more enforcement and regulations across the board as well as more reporting and accountability. As these things begin to happen they spread thought out society.

Where is the evidence of any headway being made?

The facts are there is absolutely no headway being made. Things are becoming gradually worse and worse including a worsening of corruption since the 2006 coup.

Since this topic is about road deaths / accidents ....

Year....... Deaths.......Registered Vehicles

2003.......14,446.........26,378,862

2004 .......13,766....... 20,624,719*

2005 .......12,858....... 22,571,062*

2006 .......12,069 .......24,807,297*

* New definitions of "registered vehicles".

I couldn't find anything for after 2006 but I imagine you will find fault in these numbers that show the trend of vehicles on the road increasing while deaths deaths have gone down in Thailand.

No problem with your stats Nisa, ONLY they are 6 years out of date--- seems a bit strange that the stats end when the deaths start to rise,.....look esewhere, if your giving the figures give the ones thats new. Another point, registered vehicles--55555 Ha, how many deaths then are from unregistered, double up-the figures is about right. and are these outright deaths at the scene. what about the ones that die after a day or so.. double up again the figures again. theres your stats again for you---use them as a guide only. what info is inputted saved-you can only get out.

6 years? I wasn't aware that we were already into 2013 as that would be the only way to have stats from 2012. I would also doubt there is any complied reports of road deaths yet available from 2010 since the consider anybody dying from an accident within 3-months of accident being due to the accident (the same criteria is used for each year). So, there is 3 years of data missing but as I stated, I couldn't find it.

As for thinking these are only deaths from registered motor vehicles ... I have no idea why you are making this incorrect assumption.

But if you say auto deaths are going up yearly since 2006, please share the numbers. I certainly would like to know if for some reason the trend has reversed.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Nisa

[ginjag]

nisa #155. Un registered fiures would make the deaths near double. and deaths after the hospitals may not be recorded !! and the increased numbers since 2006. bound to be as the road users must nearly have doubled. and if you query that , your stats would be out again as the numbers registered would not be the numbers on the road.

[Nisa]

nisa #155. Un registered fiures would make the deaths near double. and deaths after the hospitals may not be recorded !! and the increased numbers since 2006. bound to be as the road users must nearly have doubled. and if you query that , your stats would be out again as the numbers registered would not be the numbers on the road.

Are you really suggesting that the numbers don't include deaths by unregistered vehicles? The numbers I quoted include deaths up to 3-months*** after the accident but it really doesn't matter because the measurement & standards are the same for each year in the death column. The only thing counted differently (as stated) was they used a different definition for counting registered vehicles after 2003 but that in no way has anything to do with the number of deaths recorded.I just seem to be repeating myself here on all of this but if you have stats that are more current then please share them. If you "THINK" that the trend of more vehicles and less deaths has changed in the 3-years that is fine and you are entitled to your opinion but if you are stating this as being factual then please share the data ... I would be interested.

Edit ** I went back and looked at the official numbers and it is deaths within 30-days of accident (see: Ministry of Transport Thailand report) not 3-months but again the numbers were calculated the same way for each year making this largely a moot point. The point and post were in response to if road deaths were improving not about how long after the accident do they count it as a death or the exact number of deaths but simply if things were improving with driving safety as it relates to accident deaths.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Nisa

[Macmundi]

The public ones don't even have enough knee space, let alone seatbelts. Even the VVIP vans with lots of knee room and seats maximum 8 passengers don't have seatbelts .

[ginjag]

nisa #155. Un registered fiures would make the deaths near double. and deaths after the hospitals may not be recorded !! and the increased numbers since 2006. bound to be as the road users must nearly have doubled. and if you query that , your stats would be out again as the numbers registered would not be the numbers on the road.

Are you really suggesting that the numbers don't include deaths by unregistered vehicles? The numbers I quoted include deaths up to 3-months*** after the accident but it really doesn't matter because the measurement & standards are the same for each year in the death column. The only thing counted differently (as stated) was they used a different definition for counting registered vehicles after 2003 but that in no way has anything to do with the number of deaths recorded.I just seem to be repeating myself here on all of this but if you have stats that are more current then please share them. If you "THINK" that the trend of more vehicles and less deaths has changed in the 3-years that is fine and you are entitled to your opinion but if you are stating this as being factual then please share the data ... I would be interested.

Edit ** I went back and looked at the official numbers and it is deaths within 30-days of accident (see: Ministry of Transport Thailand report) not 3-months but again the numbers were calculated the same way for each year making this largely a moot point. The point and post were in response to if road deaths were improving not about how long after the accident do they count it as a death or the exact number of deaths but simply if things were improving with driving safety as it relates to accident deaths.

Your stas Nisa were an answer,and correct according to the Thai figures, so we have to believe that (wo betide anyone to dissagree)... only thing is it couldn't be a guide to 2010 stats. You did say (If you THINK )about numbers since 2006 have changed,,, sure they must have done in 4 years... and not as you put it more vehicles/less deaths... I am saying near double all motor vehicles and (not less) Double the deaths. not the same but more population more babies---so more vehicles more deaths. PLEASE do not sent stats from Florida or timbuktoo. to compare. To end --and be honest Do you think that since 2006 there have been more deaths.-or in other words it is on an upward spiral or not--be honest. .........it did say by registered vehicles... just makes one ponder a little

Edited February 24, 2011 by ginjag

[Nisa]

Your stas Nisa were an answer,and correct according to the Thai figures, so we have to believe that (wo betide anyone to dissagree)... only thing is it couldn't be a guide to 2010 stats. You did say (If you THINK )about numbers since 2006 have changed,,, sure they must have done in 4 years... and not as you put it more vehicles/less deaths... I am saying near double all motor vehicles and (not less) Double the deaths. not the same but more population more babies---so more vehicles more deaths. PLEASE do not sent stats from Florida or timbuktoo. to compare. To end --and be honest Do you think that since 2006 there have been more deaths.-or in other words it is on an upward spiral or not--be honest. .........it did say by registered vehicles... just makes one ponder a little

Do you even have any backing of your claim that the number of motor vehicles on the road has doubled since 2006? Again, I simply point out that this appears to be your logic that deaths have doubled since 2006 and the trend of more vehicles and less deaths has significantly reversed in the last 3-years where records may be available. Why not share where this logic/thinking is coming from and help educate us about this subject?

I found stats from the Road Safety Operation for 2009 that says road deaths in 2009 were 11,048 (lower) but as I mentioned the other figures I posted were from the Ministry of Transport that clearly defined the criteria of a motor vehicle death in there year over year comparrison. So, I am hesitant to use the 2009 numbers from another source as proof but at the same time wanted to share it since it was the only numbers I could find after 2006 .. at least in English.

AGAIN I ask that you provide some data to support your claims and not simply your logic that seems greatly flawed in your insistence to claim the numbers provided only are from deaths related to registered motor vehicles. No reason to keep going on about this unless you can provide something to back up your opinion. Simply restating it over and over again and refusing repeated requests to show some data doesn't help to show it to be factual. I get your opinion and accept that it is your opinion and not going to argue opinions on something where facts can clear up the issue.

You are so confident the number of deaths and vehicles have doubled that I would assume you have something to back up this claim and I would be very interested in seeing the numbers to support your claims and would have no problem standing corrected in the face of facts. Other than that i am not sure the point of going on about this and it seems abundantly clear to me you are still not comprehending either the reason I posted those number or how to view those numbers.

FYI: Just to point out that more vehicles don't automatically equal more deaths and the numbers I shared clearly show this and that was the point that road safety is improving in Thailand when it comes to vehicle deaths. But I cannot help saying yet again ... please share any numbers you have to show this trend has reversed since 2006.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Nisa

[Oberkommando]

As I already pointed out those statistics are only for those dead at the scene of an accident. Those that subsequently die of their injuries are not included.

Do you even have any backing of your claim that the number of motor vehicles on the road has doubled since 2006?

There are a minimum of 600,000 new Thai produced motor vehicles (not including motorbikes or scooters or imported vehicles) on the roads each year. This year it is estimated to hit 1,000,000 new locally produced vehicles.

[Nisa]

Do you think that since 2006 there have been more deaths.-or in other words it is on an upward spiral or not--be honest. .........it did say by registered vehicles... just makes one ponder a little

I think there is a trend of road related deaths decreasing in Thailand. I think it very possible in one of the years since 2006 that the numbers could have increased but still believe the number of deaths to be trending downward and improving. This is simply what I think based on data available .. not only what I posted but also the safety programs, money and enforcement increases that have occurred each year ... not to mention improvement in vehicle safety standards. But I cannot stress enough, I would be interested in seeing data for these years.

Also, if vehicle on the road were to increase at an extraordinary rate such as double in a given year or short time period (3 years) then the number of deaths may go up but unless deaths were to double or more this would still show an overall indicating of a trending down of deaths. The numbers I posted showed that deaths were not only going down but they were doing this with more vehicles on the road each year ... point being this really shows a downward trend in deaths.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Nisa

[Nisa]

As I already pointed out those statistics are only for those dead at the scene of an accident. Those that subsequently die of their injuries are not included.

Do you even have any backing of your claim that the number of motor vehicles on the road has doubled since 2006?

There are a minimum of 600,000 new Thai produced motor vehicles (not including motorbikes or scooters or imported vehicles) on the roads each year. This year it is estimated to hit 1,000,000 new locally produced vehicles.

Seems to be inline with the numbers I posted showing a growing increase of about 2 million registered vehicles a year.

On a side note ... keep in mind that currently near 40% of vehicles produced in Thailand are for export. I don't have the numbers for this but the number of vehicles exported has grown significantly over the last years.

However, I did find this ...

According to researchers and experts in the field, if the Thai auto industry continues to grow as envisioned in the Master Plan for automobiles - that is reaching a total production of 1.8 million units and export of 800,000 units by end of 2010 - then exports will grow around 13.5 percent steadily thereafter. If the growth continues beyond 2010, then Thailand is poised to become an export-oriented auto producing country with automobile exports far surpassing domestic use. http://www.biztechre...dustry-thailand

Edited February 24, 2011 by Nisa

[Nisa]

As I already pointed out those statistics are only for those dead at the scene of an accident. Those that subsequently die of their injuries are not included.

NO THEY ARE NOT AS I HAVE STATED MANY TIMES.

The numbers for each year used the same criteria in defining a road death as occurring within 30-days of the accident. This was applied to all years making seeing the trend clear. You can repeat this claim as many times as you want but the fact remains it is not true.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Nisa

[neverdie]

What a waste.

Driving too closely is a problem everywhere but it seems Thais in general have never been taught the 2-second rule or the dangerous of driving to close but worse it seems the majority of the mini bus drivers are the worst offenders.

I agree Nisa, it is a waste, its such a sad waste of life & theres many more victims than those killed & injured, all their families & loved ones will suffer.

Also, FYI perhaps one day when you qualify yourself for a visa other than a tourist one & you get out a little bit and perhaps get a Thai drivers licence, you will see their driver education program does actually address the 2 second rule. Also, when you travel to some provinces, from memory in Chiang Mai you will see some sections of road that are both sign posted in thai reminding drivers of the 2 second rule and the roadway is also marked out with dots on the surface to assist them in the process. Ive seen that in a couple of different provinces.

Edited February 24, 2011 by neverdie

[Nisa]

deleted - no reason to encourage

Edited February 24, 2011 by Nisa

[neverdie]

Again nisa, you like to dominate topics with rants about what they do in the states and here I am giving you examples of what attempts are really made by the authorities in Thailand in relation to this issue & you dismiss my claims. You don't believe that it forms part of the driver education process? How would you know? What about the roadside initiatives, you don't believe me? Perhaps some of the CM residents OR indeed the residents of other provinces might like to confirm this.

You may have noticed in your limited experience here in Thailand that many of the road rules, including very important ones (such as drink driving, speeding etc etc) arnt really followed or enforced that well. Clearly driving too close is just another example of poor driving here, but in many countries that I have visited, especially in cities, people travel far too close & well within the 2 second gap distance.

edit to say: you changed post #166 whilst I was writing this one & as I didnt quote you, that doesnt show & hence this reply may seem out a little.

Edited February 24, 2011 by neverdie

[ginjag]

Your stas Nisa were an answer,and correct according to the Thai figures, so we have to believe that (wo betide anyone to dissagree)... only thing is it couldn't be a guide to 2010 stats. You did say (If you THINK )about numbers since 2006 have changed,,, sure they must have done in 4 years... and not as you put it more vehicles/less deaths... I am saying near double all motor vehicles and (not less) Double the deaths. not the same but more population more babies---so more vehicles more deaths. PLEASE do not sent stats from Florida or timbuktoo. to compare. To end --and be honest Do you think that since 2006 there have been more deaths.-or in other words it is on an upward spiral or not--be honest. .........it did say by registered vehicles... just makes one ponder a little

Do you even have any backing of your claim that the number of motor vehicles on the road has doubled since 2006? Again, I simply point out that this appears to be your logic that deaths have doubled since 2006 and the trend of more vehicles and less deaths has significantly reversed in the last 3-years where records may be available. Why not share where this logic/thinking is coming from and help educate us about this subject?

I found stats from the Road Safety Operation for 2009 that says road deaths in 2009 were 11,048 (lower) but as I mentioned the other figures I posted were from the Ministry of Transport that clearly defined the criteria of a motor vehicle death in there year over year comparrison. So, I am hesitant to use the 2009 numbers from another source as proof but at the same time wanted to share it since it was the only numbers I could find after 2006 .. at least in English.

AGAIN I ask that you provide some data to support your claims and not simply your logic that seems greatly flawed in your insistence to claim the numbers provided only are from deaths related to registered motor vehicles. No reason to keep going on about this unless you can provide something to back up your opinion. Simply restating it over and over again and refusing repeated requests to show some data doesn't help to show it to be factual. I get your opinion and accept that it is your opinion and not going to argue opinions on something where facts can clear up the issue.

You are so confident the number of deaths and vehicles have doubled that I would assume you have something to back up this claim and I would be very interested in seeing the numbers to support your claims and would have no problem standing corrected in the face of facts. Other than that i am not sure the point of going on about this and it seems abundantly clear to me you are still not comprehending either the reason I posted those number or how to view those numbers.

FYI: Just to point out that more vehicles don't automatically equal more deaths and the numbers I shared clearly show this and that was the point that road safety is improving in Thailand when it comes to vehicle deaths. But I cannot help saying yet again ... please share any numbers you have to show this trend has reversed since 2006.

You are the biggest stats friek on forum, If you dont have 2006-2011 stats how do you think I can dig them up. I,m thinking 4 years on a mil more motors on the road, APPROX. do you honestly believe the numbers will be on the decline--then there is something wrong with your logic. You can pick at bits from sentences of posters screw them round to suit your own ends. and really (your joking) believe road safety IS IMPROVING in Thailand. You must then have a tile loose.....you cannot see facts luckily for you as yet we dont have any concocted figures. If you did see them you would believe them wouldn't you?? ,as you have no driving experience, which you need to feel if things are improving....concentrate your energy on being warmer to posters-instead of stirring up worms. The double of deaths was a gamble on my part..without stats to prove it. Forget your outdated stats from 2006, we have to imagine what the situ is now so I was guessing . but as usual you shot me down. and even said the trend is reversing--you think. ????? If I did believe the trend was falling in( far less deaths) I could be lying to myself

Edited February 24, 2011 by ginjag

[neverdie]

You are the biggest stats freik on forum,

FREAK. The word is freak.

[ginjag]

You are the biggest stats freik on forum,

FREAK. The word is freak.

55555555555555555555555 I am so stupid, it was the brick wall that I was replying to

Edited February 24, 2011 by ginjag

[Nisa]

The company of fools may first make us smile, but in the end we always feel melancholy

On that note I am outta here and will let other readers decide the foolishness of any particular posts.

[TAWP]

As I already pointed out those statistics are only for those dead at the scene of an accident. Those that subsequently die of their injuries are not included.

NO THEY ARE NOT AS I HAVE STATED MANY TIMES.

The numbers for each year used the same criteria in defining a road death as occurring within 30-days of the accident. This was applied to all years making seeing the trend clear. You can repeat this claim as many times as you want but the fact remains it is not true.

I gotta laugh here, Oberkommando is out again and stating things that are proven false and then he continues to do it again...

[ginjag]

The company of fools may first make us smile, but in the end we always feel melancholy

On that note I am outta here and will let other readers decide the foolishness of any particular posts.

Have you noticed --when Many thais are up against it they always do a runner/ you are a very strong sympathizer, so you opt to do the same.......look up your stats on all your posts and see how many do agree with you ?? Although I have agreed with you on occasions. some of my posts are foolish, to some people but I,m not (outa here)

[ginjag]

As I already pointed out those statistics are only for those dead at the scene of an accident. Those that subsequently die of their injuries are not included.

NO THEY ARE NOT AS I HAVE STATED MANY TIMES.

The numbers for each year used the same criteria in defining a road death as occurring within 30-days of the accident. This was applied to all years making seeing the trend clear. You can repeat this claim as many times as you want but the fact remains it is not true.

I gotta laugh here, Oberkommando is out again and stating things that are proven false and then he continues to do it again...

How in hells name can anyone add to the accident, a death that is recorded at a small hospital 30 days after, so he went in after an accident, and all medicals will have that stats to forward on to the stats people, so if he was in a coma 31 days and dies it wouldn't be recorded in the stats----smell some bull here, but it may me tech/correct.

[richard_smith237]

Even if the stats Nisa quoted are only stats up to 2006 there is still a general decline in deaths per vehicle - One can only conclude that the roads are becoming safer on a per-vehicle basis.

But - with more cars on the road at some point simply due to shear numbers the decline in accidents is bound to shift. There has to be some equilibrium level were a certain number of vehicles results in a certain number of accidents regardless of driver education.

As cars develop, as Thailand develops, as people become more educated and as driver education itself improves the accident rate per vehicle is surely in decline and theoretically that decline will continue until a minimum equilibrium point is reached, at which point accidents and deaths occur simply due to the volume of traffic and human error rather than driver education etc.

Thus: The the trend in decline in road related deaths must at some point flatten out as the number of vehicles on the road increases.

Regarding the accident itself, forgive my speculation: The driver was probably wearing his seatbelt, the lorry was probably parked on the road over to the left, the left side of the van probably hit the lorry so the drivers side wasn't crushed, the passengers were unlikely to be wearing seat-belts for lack of availability and were thrown around or out of the van.

Given recent events: I thought it was now law that all Vans had seat belts in the back. That Law didn't take long to become ignored and thus ineffectual.

RIP - What a waste.

Edited February 24, 2011 by richard_smith237

[neverdie]

As I already pointed out those statistics are only for those dead at the scene of an accident. Those that subsequently die of their injuries are not included.

NO THEY ARE NOT AS I HAVE STATED MANY TIMES.

The numbers for each year used the same criteria in defining a road death as occurring within 30-days of the accident. This was applied to all years making seeing the trend clear. You can repeat this claim as many times as you want but the fact remains it is not true.

I gotta laugh here, Oberkommando is out again and stating things that are proven false and then he continues to do it again...

How in hells name can anyone add to the accident, a death that is recorded at a small hospital 30 days after, so he went in after an accident, and all medicals will have that stats to forward on to the stats people, so if he was in a coma 31 days and dies it wouldn't be recorded in the stats----smell some bull here, but it may me tech/correct.

Actually, I can't see why you have a problem with what nisa said regarding this 30 days thing. There has to be a cut off somewhere. Where I am from & I'm not aware if it has changed but the cut off is if someone dies within a year and a day of the date of the collision they are counted to the road toll. (providing they die from injuries received as a result of the collision) If they die a year and two days after the collision they are not counted.

Irregardless of whether someone dies inside the car OR at a remote hospital the next day the death will still be recorded & is perhaps reportable to coroner (depending on the circumstances of the death).

[ginjag]

Neverdie, I do not have a problem with nisa, I have a problem with her reckoning about the deaths are on a downward trend, in the last 4 years. I cannot get myself to accept that as of what we see on the roads more and more accidents, especially during hol/time, alcoholism is on a big increase, alcoholic figures here are astronomical ( local doctor told me in rural areas he estimates 70 per/cent of people). on learning this I have to assume the deaths figures are on the increase. and noted before. it was said that about 1 more million vehicles on the road --DOES NOT MEAN AN INCREASE IN DEATHS.. now then in a country with no vehicles no accidents--in a country with a million -NO accidents-----pigged of with arguing with things that seem to be staring us in the face. G.J

[neverdie]

I dunno know dude, maybe someone is cooking the books at the stats dept. Perhaps they did wha tthey did back in my home country a few years ago, they changed the rules a bit and the way things were recorded and to anyone that didnt know that it made it look like the road toll had decreased when in actual fact it hadnt.

I dunno, I don't care much either.

[ginjag]

I dunno know dude, maybe someone is cooking the books at the stats dept. Perhaps they did wha tthey did back in my home country a few years ago, they changed the rules a bit and the way things were recorded and to anyone that didnt know that it made it look like the road toll had decreased when in actual fact it hadnt.

I dunno, I don't care much either.

Thanks for reply, and yes I think I remember that period of time, a few things were manipulated to suit, so to say. A way out short term eh!!! but sooner or later they reveal themselves. cheers GJ