Family Lawyer.. Adoption

[LivinLOS]

My buddy is trying to solve this.

He is married to his TGF who has spent large portions of time with him in the west, hes in the process of making these movements permanent and her gaining residency on road to citizenship.

She has a child who is his stepson in the real sense but not the legal sense. Theres full co-operation from the childs genetic father also I am lead to understand.

He wishes to go through the steps involved to formally, legally adopt the lad, and is looking for a Thai / Bangkok based lawyer experienced in these matters.

Any suggestions on who ???

[BuckarooBanzai]

I adopted my wife's daughter with no problems and no lawyers. Just went down to the local "tam ban city hall" and registered the adoption. I can't recall if I required translated passport documentation or not but a simple trip to the local gov. office will likely give all the information that is required to complete the process. For me it was really quick and painless, 1 hour at the most and everything was complete.I really do not see why a lawyer would be required.

[Mario2008]

Your friend is looking for an international adoption. An adoption only according to Thai law will not be recognized by his own country, in essence the child would not be getting his nationality.

An international adoption must be according to both Thai law and the law of his own country. The starting point would be the adoption agency in his own country and start from there.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

The child can join the mother in the UK without the need for you to adopt.

[LivinLOS]

1) he cant currently go to the local office while he isnt in Thailand.

2) theres no UK connection whatsoever.

The issue isnt concerning immigration issues, he simply wants to be the fully recognized legal parent. So it is that this cannot be done in one country but must be done in multiple countries to each countries law ??

This becomes complex as he is living and working in a country other than the one he is a citizen of.

If a family lawyer exists he is willing to pay one to solve the Thai paperwork. His time is valuable.

[7by7]

Inter country adoption is complex, no matter the nationality of the prospective adopter and child nor where they live.

You say there is no immigration issue, so I'm moving this to the Family and Children forum where you may receive better advice.

[gregb]

1) he cant currently go to the local office while he isnt in Thailand.

2) theres no UK connection whatsoever.

The issue isnt concerning immigration issues, he simply wants to be the fully recognized legal parent. So it is that this cannot be done in one country but must be done in multiple countries to each countries law ??

This becomes complex as he is living and working in a country other than the one he is a citizen of.

If a family lawyer exists he is willing to pay one to solve the Thai paperwork. His time is valuable.

All adoptions in Thailand, as with most places in the world, require a home visit by child protective services. They will come and speak with his neighbours, etc.

If he is not in Thailand, this kind of action will need to be contracted with through the appropriate agencies in the UK, and they will need to initiate the action with the Thai agencies.

If your friend is not residing in Thailand, he needs to start this process with an adoption agency in the UK. A Thai lawyer can not really help in this regard. If your friend is residing in Thailand, then he can initiate the process from inside Thailand. I believe the main office is in Bangkok near Ari. In this case, a Thai lawyer may be useful to prepare the proper forms. But he must have a valid Non-B or Non-O visa, and they will interview the neighbours to verify he is living there and is not a danger to the child.

Again, where ever he is living is where he needs to initiate the process from. There is no way around this. Even if the child is not living with him, the investigating agency is will need to speak with his neighbours and verify his character.

[LivinLOS]

I dont understand why the UK keeps being mentioned.. Hes not British, doesnt live or work in the UK, and has no connection with the UK.

Hes not in Thailand, Currently the mother is, tho for extended periods she has been outside of Thailand while the boy goes to international school and lives with the grandmother.

Its the complexity of intra country adoption that means he wants a lawyer, he wants decent proper advice, so that if he does have to come here to perform some parts of it, all forms are done for him, all appointments are booked for him, all the process is handled smoothly and professionally. As I stressed his time is very valuable and he wants to pay a professional to ensure its done right and done right first time with as little 'thainess' as possible to the paper chase. He is not in the expat position of being long on time and short on money.

[Mario2008]

As said, the process starts in his home country with home studies etc. He might need lawyer there.

He might need a lawyer in Thailand to get the father of the child to renounce his child and open the way to adoption.

A good lawyer on family law is Isaan Lawyers, but as the name suggests based in the Isaan area. They might know a good lawyer for the Bangkok area.

Some information about adoption here:

There is a topic on information about adoption in there.

[7by7]

I dont understand why the UK keeps being mentioned.. Hes not British, doesnt live or work in the UK, and has no connection with the UK.

It's an assumption; one that shouldn't be made but is. If you said what his nationality is and where he lives, then people wouldn't make this assumption.

These are relevant, as if he wants any adoption to be recognised by his native country and/or his country of residence then he his going to have to go through the legal procedures there as well as Thailand.

[gregb]

I dont understand why the UK keeps being mentioned.. Hes not British, doesnt live or work in the UK, and has no connection with the UK.

Hes not in Thailand, Currently the mother is, tho for extended periods she has been outside of Thailand while the boy goes to international school and lives with the grandmother.

Its the complexity of intra country adoption that means he wants a lawyer, he wants decent proper advice, so that if he does have to come here to perform some parts of it, all forms are done for him, all appointments are booked for him, all the process is handled smoothly and professionally. As I stressed his time is very valuable and he wants to pay a professional to ensure its done right and done right first time with as little 'thainess' as possible to the paper chase. He is not in the expat position of being long on time and short on money.

OK. Here is the answer in the most generic form. He is a citizen of country A (not Thailand). He is living in country B (not Thailand). He need to go to the embassy of country A inside of country B and get his country's rules for international adoption.

A Thai lawyer can not help him if he is not living in Thailand. This won't work because there are site visits that need to happen in country B, which is where the request needs to originate from.

Do you understand now? He needs to either move back to Thailand, or visit his embassy and an adoption agency in the country he is now resident. And even if he moves back to Thailand, if he wants country A to recognize the adoption, he will need to visit his embassy in Thailand first to find out all the appropriate steps to follow.

If time is very important to him, I suggest he contact a family lawyer skilled in international adoptions in country B. Would you care to state what country he is currently resident, and what his citizenship is? That might get you some more relevant information.

[7by7]

I understand that your friend may have his own reasons for wishing to adopt the child; I didn't adopt my step-daughter when I married her mother; that doesn't make her any less of a daughter to me nor I any less of a father to her. (I usually refer to her as 'my daughter' but am using 'step-daughter' here for clarity.)

You say in your OP that he and his wife are looking for settlement in 'the west' and one assumes that the child would come too.

No country I know of insists that he must adopt the child for this to happen.

For example, my wife obtained a settlement visa for the UK because she was moving to the UK to join me, her husband. My step-daughter obtained a settlement visa for the UK because she was accompanying her mother.

In the fullness of time they both obtained indefinite leave to remain in the UK and then British citizenship; all without any need for me to adopt my step-daughter. (I know, it's the UK again; but I'm giving you an example from my personal experience.)

So if the main (only?) reason for the adoption is to make settlement in his own country or the country where he now lives easier it's 99.99% certain that it wont. Of course, one cannot say 100% without knowing what his nationality is and what country they will be applying to settle in.

[BuckarooBanzai]

One very large difference in the adoption procedure may be based on whether the one to be adopted is a child or an infant. If a child can speak for him/herself and sign their name than the process is very simple as I stated above. You need to have a translated passport certified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and a proof of income statement also might be a good idea. There are no home checks or anything other than the office visit to go through. They use KhorRor 1 and KhorRor 14. After the completion of the process and a name change on the child's ID I know of no reason for any foreign government not to respect the adoption just as they respect the Thai Marriage. I understand that further action in another country will be required but I believe it would be more of a registration of the adoption rather than the adoption itself. But whatever the case this is easy and couldn't hurt.

Edited March 3, 2011 by BuckarooBanzai

[LivinLOS]

I dont understand why the UK keeps being mentioned.. Hes not British, doesnt live or work in the UK, and has no connection with the UK.

Hes not in Thailand, Currently the mother is, tho for extended periods she has been outside of Thailand while the boy goes to international school and lives with the grandmother.

Its the complexity of intra country adoption that means he wants a lawyer, he wants decent proper advice, so that if he does have to come here to perform some parts of it, all forms are done for him, all appointments are booked for him, all the process is handled smoothly and professionally. As I stressed his time is very valuable and he wants to pay a professional to ensure its done right and done right first time with as little 'thainess' as possible to the paper chase. He is not in the expat position of being long on time and short on money.

OK. Here is the answer in the most generic form. He is a citizen of country A (not Thailand). He is living in country B (not Thailand). He need to go to the embassy of country A inside of country B and get his country's rules for international adoption.

A Thai lawyer can not help him if he is not living in Thailand. This won't work because there are site visits that need to happen in country B, which is where the request needs to originate from.

Do you understand now? He needs to either move back to Thailand, or visit his embassy and an adoption agency in the country he is now resident. And even if he moves back to Thailand, if he wants country A to recognize the adoption, he will need to visit his embassy in Thailand first to find out all the appropriate steps to follow.

If time is very important to him, I suggest he contact a family lawyer skilled in international adoptions in country B. Would you care to state what country he is currently resident, and what his citizenship is? That might get you some more relevant information.

Thank you, thats precisely the kind of answer that provides some meat to it.

He has informed me yesterday he spoke with his immigration lawyer in (as you put it country B ) who is advising him for that side. As people are stating he can bring the child there without adopting but he wants to formalize the whole thing.

However the genetic father still needs to sign off on some of these parts in thailand. These aspects may well still need a Thai lawyer to draw up and oversee.

One very large difference in the adoption procedure may be based on whether the one to be adopted is a child or an infant. If a child can speak for him/herself and sign their name than the process is very simple as I stated above. You need to have a translated passport certified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and a proof of income statement also might be a good idea. There are no home checks or anything other than the office visit to go through. They use KhorRor 1 and KhorRor 14. After the completion of the process and a name change on the child's ID I know of no reason for any foreign government not to respect the adoption just as they respect the Thai Marriage. I understand that further action in another country will be required but I believe it would be more of a registration of the adoption rather than the adoption itself. But whatever the case this is easy and couldn't hurt.

Also superb information.. However the only family lawyer we have mentioned so far is Isaan Lawyers, if no Bangkok based recommendations come through I guess he will have to contact them to see if they know of any.

Edited March 4, 2011 by LivinLOS

[gregb]

I know of no reason for any foreign government not to respect the adoption just as they respect the Thai Marriage. I understand that further action in another country will be required but I believe it would be more of a registration of the adoption rather than the adoption itself.

Unfortunately, this isn't really true. Each country has its own laws that must be followed for an adoption to be legal, and there are no treaties or processes of "recognizing" an adoption from one country to the next. Every embassy will advise you to speak with them BEFORE doing the adoption in the host country. Failure to involve the appropriate child services within your country of citizenship may result in having to redo the entire adoption proceedings. In most cases, there are forms that the birth parents must sign for your own country to recognize the adoption and procedures they may be subject to by the overseas embassy. If you don't do this at the time of the adoption, no amount of petitioning in the world will help you. You'll have to track down the birth parents again, and start anew.

It is different for each country, so it is impossible to say without knowing specifics how much of an issue this will be in the OP's case. But it is absolutely foolish not to consult with your embassy first before starting this process.

[7by7]

Unfortunately? I disagree. There is a world of difference between an adult deciding to move to a new country to be with their adult partner and a child being adopted by a foreigner (or anyone). Issues of child safety are paramount and the appropriate checks need to be made.

I agree that it is extremely foolish not to talk to the relevant authorities in one's own country, or the country where one is/will be living, first.