Focus On Quality Tourists, Not Quantity, Urges PM Abhisit

[bkkbrad]

I'm sure good old Thaksin had this dream a few years back!!...Sure the wealthier visitors spend more money in the high end resorts, restaurants and shopping malls, but it is the mid and low budget visitors that keep the majority of the bars, restaurants street vendors and the likes of MBK in business.

Also the 'new money' from Russia and eastern Europe is fast running out and this has been noticed in the beach resorts where the Russian tourist is spending much less and bartering down the prices much more.

The old saying 'Don't bite the hand that feeds you' springs to mind as it has for many many years been the mid to low budget traveller that has kept Thailands toursit industry in the money and the hotel rooms full.

[diehard60]

A good start might be taking a bulldozer through places like Pattaya. Round up all the bargirls on the streets. Quality tourists don't flock to Thailand for ladyboys and the sex industry.

"However, tourist spending per head is decreasing. Therefore, the prime minister urged all relevant organisations to focus on quality visitors, as they would bring in more income."

Well I guess this means that the price of fried rice is going to go up 50% along with everything else. Which will send more tourists to other countries.Hahahahahahhhahahahaha. TIT!!!!

[johncat1]

I might be missing something here, but surely Thailand needs 'quantity' to fill up all those empty hotel rooms? Quality is just going to direct high profit business to a few hotels? Thus not much of a benefit to the whole tourism business in Thailand?

I wonder who owns or has business interests in these quality hotels ?

Could it be Thai Government officials ?

[Expatmartin]

Not even staying at the Oriental, the best hotel in the world can make you forget, that you're living in a country without odor traps in the sewer system, cars without catalyzers and on-site garbage sorting. High quality??

[oldsailor35]

Abhisit wants quality tourists ?...........................I suppose he demands the jet ski 'ripperoffers' will be required to upgrade their jet skis and gold plate them now.

Edited March 4, 2011 by metisdead
Corrected misspelling of PM's name.

[oldsailor35]

What a load of crap!

Sort out the political <deleted> they have going on in Thailand,

Then sort out the dramas in the muddle east.

Stop the volcanoes from spewing ash out.

Bring down fuel prices.

And sort out the economy in the west.

We might have a few people leaving home for there holidays then.

Let's face it, even if all the above is good, the scams over here are probably keeping many more away.

Stop the volcanoes from spewing out ash !.......................Dont worry on that one as Australias Joolya Gillard (PM) is about to solve that one by putting a carbon tax on all Australians, the muppet !

[soloman]

I doubt the scams are even an issue. I always big-up Thailand to friends and acquaintances as a tourist destination, whilst warning them of the local scams if they show an interest. Not one so far has shown awareness of said scams .

I consider myself to be a slightly higher quality, but regular, tourist, and it is hard not to be angry that on five out of my six road trips out of Bangkok, we were pulled over for "Speeding". Cash fine with no receipts issued. So, unless you take a bus - something a high quality tourist might not do, then trying to travel and spend your money outside of BKK can leave a very bad taste in your mouth.

[animatic]

I might be missing something here, but surely Thailand needs 'quantity' to fill up all those empty hotel rooms? Quality is just going to direct high profit business to a few hotels? Thus not much of a benefit to the whole tourism business in Thailand?

Yes, exactly. It is not only 5 Star hotels needing business here,

but the full range of business from hostels to staffed villa rentals, food stalls to Michelin star chefs, ALL needing business.

But the ones with the access to TOT's ears are the upper range guys

so of course they whine for their own market segment being under filled.

Edited March 4, 2011 by animatic

[kinmaew]

15.8M tourists or arrivals?

[kinmaew]

Am I a quality tourist? I only spend 1000-1500 baht per night in accomodation. If i am not, I guess they can close all the mid range hotels and those operators can have no income.

[samran]

I think you are a bit wrong on Australia. They heavily court the backpacker market, via tools such as working holiday visas, and extensions to those visas of you work for three months in the agricultural sector.

Plenty of research about which shows Australia recognises the importance.

see http://www.ret.gov.a...kers%202003.pdf

http://www.ret.gov.a...d%20Reports.pdf

and more generally

http://www.ret.gov.a...x?k=backpackers

You absolutely right, they court the backpackers to use them for cheap labor, labor that no Australian wants to do. They use them rather then welcome them to explore the country, as no option is given, all must work fruit picking for a set period of time and some get wages which are below the minimum wage.

Even with that, they also get taxed for every dollar they earn. So Australia has a little different reasons for wanting backpackers

PS. Links show that there is a huge number of backpackers, it does not show that Australia promotes itself as a backpackers holiday destination.

I think that you are being rather dismissive - Victoria instituted a backpacker marketing plan, NSW has it as a focus of their strategy. Sure, WHV's are one tool (sensible I think) to provide Australia with a flexible labour market which assists the agricultural sector, but I guess for you it seems like the sole cynical reason why Australia promotes youth travel so it can access cheap labour. Using that logic though, if cheap labour is the only motivation, why don't they just import a bunch of Thai's to work for minimum wage then?

I won't bore you with google derived links though, I'm sure you'll find a way to poo-poo them, as is your right.

[Thai at Heart]

I might be missing something here, but surely Thailand needs 'quantity' to fill up all those empty hotel rooms? Quality is just going to direct high profit business to a few hotels? Thus not much of a benefit to the whole tourism business in Thailand?

Yes, exactly. It is not only 5 Star hotels needing business here,

but the full range of business from hostels to staffed villa rentals, food stalls to Michelin star chefs, ALL needing business.

But the ones with the access to TOT's ears are the upper range guys

so of course they whine for their own market segment being under filled.

What concerns me the most is the apparent uncontrolled expansion in construction of new hotels which you mentioned in a previous message. I would dearly love to know which figures the hotel owners/investors use when calculating the viability of the project. I am well acquainted with a 5 star hotel up country that has been in business over 10 years. When it was built everyone believed it would be a white elephant, and I think the rack rates when it opened were close to 10k per night at 25 to the USD. Today, you can get a room for about 2k baht.

It seems that the uncontrolled, unplanned construction of these hotels of all star ratings has been continuing apace for the last 5 years at least in many of the tourist areas, although I can't say I know all of the tourist numbers. What figures were they predicting for actual tourism growth 5 years ago to encourage this continued expansion. It seems to me, all it has done is allow tour operators to bargain down the prices and allow service to drop as targetted revenues in the hotels don't even get close. Would the country magically come to a standstill if there was a stop on new hotel licenses once the current crop of hotels under construction are finished.

At least this would give a chance for everyone to step back and take a breath and make a proper plan. Would it be a tragedy if there was a small shortage of rooms in the resorts, but it at least allowed the prices for accommodation to firm up a little bit instead of being discounted to the ground.

Of course the global recession is hurting tourism, of course the yellow/red mess has dissuaded a certain percentage of people from coming. But what is wrong with taking a given resort as it stands today and not expanding it any more for the next 5 years, give the authorities some time to really focus on improving the environment in those resorts, and stop cheapening the investments that have already been made and trying to spread thinner revenues around and ever increasing amount of establishments.

[ginjag]

15.8M tourists or arrivals?

Airport 25 mil inter---15 mil domestic +..... ......................... now as above 15.8 mil tourists..................Picture this the new modern Thailand.................super Leer private Jets. arriving at U.T. Sattahip airport--------------being whisked away with full police escort. in convoys -as vips travel----and arrive protected from the ordinary scum tourists here spending their few baht. The oriental and other 5 star+ will have to start on massive extensions to cover for this explosion of Hi-So's.. Bye Bye to all the Pattaya style resorts..The government is sure we can manage without them...............the bleeding numskull who thought of this NEW idea ought to be put in a nuthouse.

Edited March 4, 2011 by ginjag

[nephron]

Is there s secret backpacker society who communicate with each other? and i really doubt any country is dying to have the backpackers, while countries tolerate it they certainly do not wish for it.

Well, Australia has a 1 year "working holiday" visa which primarily attracts backpackers, so...yes?

[nephron]

As for Thailand not having anything to offer the luxury traveller, I think my doctor would have something to say about that. He is primarily a high-end traveller and he absolutely raves about Thailand- the spectacular boutique hotels, food (and I don't mean street stalls), amazing high-end tailors (one of whom he has a standing-order to have suits made even when he's in Australia- and they really are truly lovely suits). He has been back several times and has plans to return.

Maybe you just can't conceive of a luxury Thailand because you haven't tried it?

[Soutpeel]

Maybe you just can't conceive of a luxury Thailand because you haven't tried it?

Or cant afford it....

[kuffki]

Is there s secret backpacker society who communicate with each other? and i really doubt any country is dying to have the backpackers, while countries tolerate it they certainly do not wish for it.

Well, Australia has a 1 year "working holiday" visa which primarily attracts backpackers, so...yes?

it may be hard for some to understand simple economics, so let me explain it.

Working Visa is for backpackers= backpacker has only enough money to buy a ticket to Australia. Backpacker then gets a job, PAYS TAX, spends the money and moves to the next destination. Again works, again pays taxes and again spends the money.

Backpacker with no money can not get tourist visa to Australia for long term and once in the country needs to show income or money in the bank to extend visa. Not only that when entering Australia even with a tourist visa and customs see its a backpacker, they have the right to show proof of prepaid accommodation and enough money or entry is refused

Australia does not have an unregistered hotels or mom & pops stores, everyone pays tax one way or another.As a backpacker one also gets slightly higher tax rate and if not long enough in the country does not get to claim any of it back.

Australia does promote itself as a youth travel destination however also utilizes on the labor and extra income from taxes.

Government can not import cheap labor from China or Thailand, because it would be wrong to take jobs away from the Australians, while backpackers do all the jobs Australians do not want to do, so they do not take away anything, not to mention government does not have any headaches in regards to relocating people

Backpacker in Thailand-can not work, does not need to show any money to get long visa and does not need visa at all to start with upon entry.

[bonobo]

As for Thailand not having anything to offer the luxury traveller, I think my doctor would have something to say about that. He is primarily a high-end traveller and he absolutely raves about Thailand- the spectacular boutique hotels, food (and I don't mean street stalls), amazing high-end tailors (one of whom he has a standing-order to have suits made even when he's in Australia- and they really are truly lovely suits). He has been back several times and has plans to return.

Maybe you just can't conceive of a luxury Thailand because you haven't tried it?

Thailand is a great high-end destination with enough to satisfy pretty much anyone. Go to the Banyan Tree in Phuket soemtime, and it seems like you are on the red carpet at the Oscars with all the celebs and high rollers walking by. And that says nothing of the more secluded resorts.

But just as it would be stupid to ignore this sector, it is stupid to ignore the middle-of-the-road tourist, the backpacker, even the party sector.

[jerrysteve]

"Last year Thailand received 15.8 million international tourists, generating income of Bt585 million, he said."

That averages out at a tad over 37 Baht per international visitor. Is the quoted line a typo, or are the PM's advisors/scriptwriters slacking a bit?

Anyway, sad to say that Thailand (in common with just about every other country trying to entice tourists) can't be too picky at the moment.

[bonobo]

For those knocking the Russians, I have heard from more than one person in the Thai hotel industry that the Russians spend more and tip better by far than any other nationality as a whole. They also treat the staff better than anyone else except for maybe the Americans (who are considered the second best tippers, but nowhere near the Russian levels). When the guest list comes in the butlers vie for people with Russian surnames.

[jerrysteve]

Perhaps they sould improve the quality of policemen/women, the attitude of the immigation officials, the number of scam artists including taxi drives, the rip off tuk tuk drivers, addinfintem..and the list goes on and on an on like the song goes.

If you think the Land of those smiles is geniune it isn't...when they see foreigners/tourists their big brown eyeballs are going round and round like those of a slot machine thinking about how much more money they can rip off and shake down tourists.

The priminister should get out of his office and off his rectum and visit Pattaya, look at the police force, including in

rest of what we in the west would call tourist traps...their are traps on top of traps

[cdnvic]

Today's backpacker is tomorrow's honeymooner, business traveller, family vacationer and eventual retiree. He/she learns to love the country, quirks and all and returns as a "quality tourist" many times.

A 50yr old "quality tourist" used to Hawaii and Key West arrives to broken sidewalks, low hanging power lines and stray dogs everywhere. He doesn't return.

Thaksin tried the same foolishness. Wanted five star tourists but only had a budget infrastructure to give them.

Cultivating a good relationship with younger budget travellers will bring results as they age and grow more affluent. Making them less welcome and telling them to come back when they're rich is beyond shortsighted.

But then again, it's really all about face anyway.

[hyperdimension]

The Thread title is misleading, as it seems to claim that Abhisit said words that he did not say:

Focus On Quality Tourists, Not Quantity, Urges PM Abhisit

"Read my lips: No more Cheap Charlies!"

That supposed quote also does not match the content of the article, as the use of the words "No more" implies that there would be restrictions to low-end tourists, whereas the article does not state any restrictions, but just focusing marketing to higher-end tourists.

I think the use of the supposed quote "Read my lips: No more Cheap Charlies!" was just to bait people into reading this thread, in order to get more traffic and thus more advertising clicks.

Could one sue for defamation in a case like this?

[naiharn]

Well, Australia has a 1 year "working holiday" visa which primarily attracts backpackers, so...yes?

it may be hard for some to understand simple economics, so let me explain it.

Working Visa is for backpackers= backpacker has only enough money to buy a ticket to Australia. Backpacker then gets a job, PAYS TAX, spends the money and moves to the next destination. Again works, again pays taxes and again spends the money.

Backpacker with no money can not get tourist visa to Australia for long term and once in the country needs to show income or money in the bank to extend visa. Not only that when entering Australia even with a tourist visa and customs see its a backpacker, they have the right to show proof of prepaid accommodation and enough money or entry is refused

Australia does not have an unregistered hotels or mom & pops stores, everyone pays tax one way or another.As a backpacker one also gets slightly higher tax rate and if not long enough in the country does not get to claim any of it back.

Not true, all Australian wage and salary earners are subject to the same tax scales. A taxpayer doesn't receive a refund for any excess paid until the end of the tax year (30th June), but backpackers can easily get their refund - the application can be done over the internet - bit different to the Thai system of 2 hours travel to a hot and humid office, with 3 copies of everything, 8 photos and come back again tomorrow because you didn't supply 4 copies of a particular form we didn't mention.

The Aust Tax Office even mails refunds overseas (which has happened to friends of mine).

Australia does promote itself as a youth travel destination however also utilizes on the labor and extra income from taxes.

Government can not import cheap labor from China or Thailand, because it would be wrong to take jobs away from the Australians,

What a load of rubbish. There are thousands of Thais and hundreds of thousands of Chinese who have migrated to Australia in the last decade alone.

while backpackers do all the jobs Australians do not want to do, so they do not take away anything, not to mention government does not have any headaches in regards to relocating people

Backpacker in Thailand-can not work, does not need to show any money to get long visa and does not need visa at all to start with upon entry.

Wrong again! Not many know it, but Thailand has a working holiday visa system available for young nationals of some countries. It's available for Australians, part of a reciprocal agreement, Australia also gives working holiday visas to young Thais.There is lots info about the system on Australian govt websites - but almost none can be found on Thai government websites :)

[hyperdimension]

I suppose I should be happy you're not criticizing my spelling and grammar anymore, instead you've resorted to a new technique which I would define as "Baffle them with Bull$hit."

It's your mathematics that you should be criticized for! 1B / 1M = 1000, so 37 * 1000 = 37,000, not 3,700.

Yet you call someone else "incompetent in fundamental mathematics", and offer yourself for employment in place of that person! Hilarious!

"Last year Thailand received 15.8 million international tourists, generating income of Bt585 million, he said."

That averages out at a tad over 37 Baht per international visitor. Is the quoted line a typo, or are the PM's advisors/scriptwriters slacking a bit?

Anyway, sad to say that Thailand (in common with just about every other country trying to entice tourists) can't be too picky at the moment.

So true, it makes you wonder if they know what the fuc_k they're actually talking about.

I'm thinking it may be a typo, perhaps it was supposed to be Billion instead of million, which would make it 3,700 Baht. Even then, I would think even a low budget backpacker would spend more than that in one week.

Who ever is doing these statistics is incompetent in fundamental mathematics, and they are supposed to be experts in ADVANCED mathematics. If TAT is looking for new employees: I can add, subtract, multiply, and on a good day, even do long division; Pleas give me a call, I'll even bring my own calculator.

[naiharn]

Ok, now that you have written 1000 words, please provide a link where countries you had mentioned WANT and INVITE and WELCOME and PREFER backpackers.Just because backpackers go to Australia it really does not mean they are wanted, liked or welcomed, they are simply tolerated.

Also please provide 1 link where Thailand said they DID NOT WANT or DID NOT WELCOME or REFUSED backpackers.

I think you are a bit wrong on Australia. They heavily court the backpacker market, via tools such as working holiday visas, and extensions to those visas of you work for three months in the agricultural sector.

Plenty of research about which shows Australia recognises the importance.

see http://www.ret.gov.a...kers%202003.pdf

http://www.ret.gov.a...d%20Reports.pdf

and more generally

http://www.ret.gov.a...x?k=backpackers

You absolutely right, they court the backpackers to use them for cheap labor, labor that no Australian wants to do. They use them rather then welcome them to explore the country, as no option is given, all must work fruit picking for a set period of time and some get wages which are below the minimum wage.

Even with that, they also get taxed for every dollar they earn. So Australia has a little different reasons for wanting backpackers

PS. Links show that there is a huge number of backpackers, it does not show that Australia promotes itself as a backpackers holiday destination.

More rubbish. You really are good at spouting this nonsense.

Even 5 minutes reading Australian government websites will show you there is NO REQUIREMENT to work 'fruit picking' or any other particular type of work.

I've known quite a few young backpackers who worked in Australia. Some picked fruit some didn't.

One young lady from Japan I knew spent 6 months working in an office in Sydney then 6 months working in a resort on Hamilton Island on the Great Barrier Reef.

[kuffki]

Not true, all Australian wage and salary earners are subject to the same tax scales. A taxpayer doesn't receive a refund for any excess paid until the end of the tax year (30th June), but backpackers can easily get their refund - the application can be done over the internet - bit different to the Thai system of 2 hours travel to a hot and humid office, with 3 copies of everything, 8 photos and come back again tomorrow because you didn't supply 4 copies of a particular form we didn't mention.

The Aust Tax Office even mails refunds overseas (which has happened to friends of mine).

What a load of rubbish. There are thousands of Thais and hundreds of thousands of Chinese who have migrated to Australia in the last decade alone.

Wrong again! Not many know it, but Thailand has a working holiday visa system available for young nationals of some countries. It's available for Australians, part of a reciprocal agreement, Australia also gives working holiday visas to young Thais.There is lots info about the system on Australian govt websites - but almost none can be found on Thai government websites :)

I have a feeling you do not really have a clue to Oz system at all and rather posting what someone else has told you.

Non residents get higher tax, do not get super benefit and Oz government does not mail them anything. Because for Oz government to mail something, one would need to lodge tax refund. To lodge tax refund, one would need to visit Oz accountant and provide all the receipts which he/she wants to claim and then funny enough by the end of it also sign the form.

Applications for refund can be lodged by internet by an accountant or authorized person, certainly not just an individual with no knowledge of the system. It might be the reason why there are tax refund centers all over Oz that do just that for a fee.

No one said that Thai or Chinese do not migrate, READ the thread and response in terms before you post nonsense. One member suggested that Australia can import cheap labor from Thailand if government wanted cheap labor.

Since you know so much about the visa's how about a link to an official site which confirms that Thailand has a working holiday visa system?????? but since none can be found as you have stated it would appear as you are the one posting utter rubbish.

Edited March 4, 2011 by kuffki

[Payboy]

Rubbish on the beaches = check

Stray dogs and dog sh!t all around = check

Touts and rip-off artists at every corner = check

Traffic / litter police shakedowns = check

Duty-free theft shakedown = check

Double pricing = check

Accident prone tourist transportation = check

Immigration queues = check

Airpot baggage thefts = check

Yeah, we're going to have those quality tourists coming here soon Mr. PM.

[Payboy]

Sorry forgot:

Mysterious tourist deaths = check

Occasional riots and closed airports = check

Edited March 4, 2011 by Payboy

[samran]

Kufki - google 'work and holiday' visa mate. It was signed between australia and thailand around the same time that the two countries concluded negotiations on the FTA agreement. Amanda Vanstone was the minister on the australian side at the time from what I recall.