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Focus On Quality Tourists, Not Quantity, Urges PM Abhisit


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For those knocking the Russians, I have heard from more than one person in the Thai hotel industry that the Russians spend more and tip better by far than any other nationality as a whole. They also treat the staff better than anyone else except for maybe the Americans (who are considered the second best tippers, but nowhere near the Russian levels). When the guest list comes in the butlers vie for people with Russian surnames.

Interesting post. Not to be argumentative but are these Russians extremely wealth and stay only at exclusive resorts? I've had limited contact with Russians in Thailand but my personal experience is that I've never encountered a more dour and rude nationality anywhere. Any way, its good to hear a different perspective...

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You can still get a comfortable room with toilet for 3,000 baht monthly and eat decent Thai food for about 3,000 per month. Try that back in Farangland.

Exactly. Sure Thailand is more expensive than it used to be, but isn't that true of most places?

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I might be missing something here, but surely Thailand needs 'quantity' to fill up all those empty hotel rooms? Quality is just going to direct high profit business to a few hotels? Thus not much of a benefit to the whole tourism business in Thailand?

Yes, exactly. It is not only 5 Star hotels needing business here,

but the full range of business from hostels to staffed villa rentals, food stalls to Michelin star chefs, ALL needing business.

But the ones with the access to TOT's ears are the upper range guys

so of course they whine for their own market segment being under filled.

I think you mean TAT = Tourism Authority of Thailand !!!

TOT = Telephone Organization of Thailand is the main Phone company in Thailand

But maybe you spell Authority with an " O " where you come from

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Today's backpacker is tomorrow's honeymooner, business traveller, family vacationer and eventual retiree. He/she learns to love the country, quirks and all and returns as a "quality tourist" many times.

A 50yr old "quality tourist" used to Hawaii and Key West arrives to broken sidewalks, low hanging power lines and stray dogs everywhere. He doesn't return.

Thaksin tried the same foolishness. Wanted five star tourists but only had a budget infrastructure to give them.

Cultivating a good relationship with younger budget travellers will bring results as they age and grow more affluent. Making them less welcome and telling them to come back when they're rich is beyond shortsighted.

But then again, it's really all about face anyway.

Smart post! TAT really should think about what you said: "Today's backpacker is tomorrow's honeymooner, business traveller, family vacationer and eventual retiree." About Australia and backpackers: The real issue is not so much a backpacker willing to sleep in a tent in the bush; rather, it is about a tourism policy that welcomes all income categories. Australia has such a policy as do most other advanced nations. One poster pointed out global tourism numbers showing the USA at the top. Well, I am from the USA. I know, for certain, that the USA welcomes any tourist with money to spend, no matter how much money they make. The tourism economic sector caters to all income levels (something for everyone). Backpackers? We have hundreds of national parks that cater to backpackers--some in the mountains and some on the oceans. There are nationwide chains that earn income from backpackers (e.g., KOA international). There is absolutely no need for Thailand to focus on "quality/rich tourists." It is a foolish mistake. Read cdnvic's quote again: "Today's backpacker is tomorrow's honeymooner, business traveller, family vacationer and eventual retiree."

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A good start might be taking a bulldozer through places like Pattaya. Round up all the bargirls on the streets. Quality tourists don't flock to Thailand for ladyboys and the sex industry.

Good start would be to get rid of people like you who complain about everything. Is Pattaya the only place to wisit in Thailand? Don´t you just go visit the town/city where there is something for you to see or do? Maybe you want to make Disney world in every town and city and everybody will be happy. Open your eye´s. People like different things. I love Pattaya the way it is and I know hundreds of people who agree on the same. Go somewhere else if you don´t like it here.

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You can still get a comfortable room with toilet for 3,000 baht monthly and eat decent Thai food for about 3,000 per month. Try that back in Farangland.

Exactly. Sure Thailand is more expensive than it used to be, but isn't that true of most places?

Comfortable room with toilet for 3,000 a month ?

I think they saw you coming 555555+

I live in a 3 bedroom semi with nice garden in a small Issan town for 3,000 a month and I have 2 toilets !!!

What on earth do you eat for 3,000 a month ?

You could survive on less than 1,000 a month if eating basic Thai food

But I agree it would probably cost at least a 1000 A DAY in Farangland and as for the rent I am scared to even think about that

The Thais do not realize how lucky they are here

If a Thais says they are starving they are liars because you can just pick food from many trees or plants that are in the wild

We have to buy all our food because unlike Thailand nothing is free ( fruit trees, etc )

Most farangs in the West seldom eat out except maybe fast food restaurants because it is too expensive

Most Thais NEVER eat in !!!

Edited by johncat1
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Wrapping it all up into a few lines:

Thailand is an emerging nation which doesn't realise it ...

No "quality" tourists would want to holiday in an emerging nation ...

Wishful government thinking regarding inflated/silly tourism statistics doesn't change these facts ...

Cheap Charlie backpackers usually stay here for 3 months on a budget of 500B a day = 45,000B ...

Sex tourists probably put more into the local economy than backpackers ...

Unfortunately outward appearances count for everything in Thailand, so the thought of nice polite, smartly-dressed middle-class retirees and jetsetters is much more glossy and attractive than encouraging millions of 'shabby hippies' and 'grubby sex tourists' - even though realistically this sector generates far, far more wealth than "quality" tourists.

The Thai govt would be far happier with just a few thousand "quality tourists" instead. Then everything would look lovely and they could continue to make up nonsensical tourism statistics just like they do now ... although didn't they try that one already?

I seem to remember Mr Taksin bleating along these lines and endorsing the "Elite Privilege Club" card/scheme blindly assuming that "quality tourists" would be falling over themselves to come here. Has the TAT learned nothing at all? Or was the resounding flop of that scheme egg on someone else's face?

R

Edited by robsamui
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For those knocking the Russians, I have heard from more than one person in the Thai hotel industry that the Russians spend more and tip better by far than any other nationality as a whole. They also treat the staff better than anyone else except for maybe the Americans (who are considered the second best tippers, but nowhere near the Russian levels). When the guest list comes in the butlers vie for people with Russian surnames.

Interesting post. Not to be argumentative but are these Russians extremely wealth and stay only at exclusive resorts? I've had limited contact with Russians in Thailand but my personal experience is that I've never encountered a more dour and rude nationality anywhere. Any way, its good to hear a different perspective...

Rude by the standards of other countries, sure. I can accept that, whether in Russia or when traveling. They don't seem overtly friendly until you have tipped a glass with them. But for middle class and rich Russians, there almost seems to be a need to prove their wealth, hence the flaunting of the trappings of it, to include tipping. I liken it to some nouveau riche folks who need to show off. That is my conjecture, at least. And they do seem to go out of their way to treat the "servants" well, possibly because they are generally nice or possibly because they want to prove their degree of egalatarianism. I don't know.

What I was told about Russians does fall in line with what i have seen from my own experience.

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Comfortable room with toilet for 3,000 a month ?

I think they saw you coming 555555+

I live in a 3 bedroom semi with nice garden in a small Issan town for 3,000 a month and I have 2 toilets !!!

What on earth do you eat for 3,000 a month ?

You could survive on less than 1,000 a month if eating basic Thai food

But I agree it would probably cost at least a 1000 A DAY in Farangland and as for the rent I am scared to even think about that

The Thais do not realize how lucky they are here

If a Thais says they are starving they are liars because you can just pick food from many trees or plants that are in the wild

We have to buy all our food because unlike Thailand nothing is free ( fruit trees, etc )

Most farangs in the West seldom eat out except maybe fast food restaurants because it is too expensive

Most Thais NEVER eat in !!!

And so commences the TV regular " Iam a bigger cheap Charlie than you" p*ssing match......:whistling:

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Just arrived home in chiang mai from another trip to bangkok.Seems that the taxis at the airport CHIANG MAI are getting worse then those in BKK ! I was asked if i wanted a taxi meter and when i asked how much to hillside 3 i was told 200 baht.They thought i was a tourist and when i told them i lived here for three year's now,two of the driver's just looked at each other and smiled.They knew they were caught especially when there were three newly arrived tourists sitting nearby and listening to the conversation.They quoted another price of 150 baht and i walked away and took a red taxi for 80 baht.Wonder why the tourist number's are declining.

I n regards to quality tourists,i see TAT stated they will focus on the middle east tourist well,those are mainly the people i see now in BKK as tourists and,they do nothing but try and bargain.Gripe and do not want to pay 50 baht for a pair of sandals.These are the quality tourists they want to attract wow.Also,they are very rude in their actions and speaking.Quality ?I don't think so.

I

Hear, hear. You have summed up nicely, my experiences to date, with nearly all the people that I have met or seen from that part of the world. There must be exceptions - in fact I have met 2 so far in the last 30 years, who I do not hesitate to call "salt of the earth" and terrific friends -, though I have yet to meet or see any others. This sector also tries to stay very much around people of their own culture/religion rather than try to integrate and mix and I have yet to see any of them - even my 2 friends- try to make any concessions to Thai culture or any other for that matter. I am unfortunately a regular visitor to Bangkok Hospital too, where 80%++ of the patients are from the middle east, so I get to observe their behavior and "culture" more than I would like. Please don't say that I am "racist/bigoted" etc. cause I am not and I believe in free choice and any religion that advocates peace and tolerance, help your neighbor or any that need help and who try to improve society without jamming their beliefs down your throat, is fine with me. It also seems to me too, from watching/listening to the News and my own experiences to date, that most those same countries in the middle east, seem to have a much higher incidence of "fanatics/lunatics" and human rights abuse than they have any right to. I don't say that they are lower quality people, just that in my opinion as well as yours it seems, they don't seem to be the "ideal type/sector" to try and attract to increase the income from tourists, to this country I call home. As for taxis having a 2 tier price system, I can't say as I really blame them. Think on this. If you were back in your own country and a taxi overcharged some apparently wealthy tourist , then charged you the "normal rate" to the same destination, would you go out of your way to "haul him/her" over the coals just to get some stranger the "local rate"? I doubt it. I also doubt, that the Prime Minister here, with his fancy education and apparent smarts, really believed or supported the statement he made/was asked to make on this "new direction/policy" to improve the income from tourism. I too think that this policy, statement or whatever, will only damage the industry, not help it, let alone improve it. I hope it gets swept under the nearest rug.

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I might be missing something here, but surely Thailand needs 'quantity' to fill up all those empty hotel rooms? Quality is just going to direct high profit business to a few hotels? Thus not much of a benefit to the whole tourism business in Thailand?

Yes, exactly. It is not only 5 Star hotels needing business here,

but the full range of business from hostels to staffed villa rentals, food stalls to Michelin star chefs, ALL needing business.

But the ones with the access to TOT's ears are the upper range guys

so of course they whine for their own market segment being under filled.

I think you mean TAT = Tourism Authority of Thailand !!!

TOT = Telephone Organization of Thailand is the main Phone company in Thailand

But maybe you spell Authority with an " O " where you come from

TAT was originally TOT :lol:

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You can still get a comfortable room with toilet for 3,000 baht monthly and eat decent Thai food for about 3,000 per month. Try that back in Farangland.

Exactly. Sure Thailand is more expensive than it used to be, but isn't that true of most places?

Comfortable room with toilet for 3,000 a month ?

I think they saw you coming 555555+

I live in a 3 bedroom semi with nice garden in a small Issan town for 3,000 a month and I have 2 toilets !!!

What on earth do you eat for 3,000 a month ?

You could survive on less than 1,000 a month if eating basic Thai food

But I agree it would probably cost at least a 1000 A DAY in Farangland and as for the rent I am scared to even think about that

The Thais do not realize how lucky they are here

If a Thais says they are starving they are liars because you can just pick food from many trees or plants that are in the wild

We have to buy all our food because unlike Thailand nothing is free ( fruit trees, etc )

Most farangs in the West seldom eat out except maybe fast food restaurants because it is too expensive

Most Thais NEVER eat in !!!

Most people don't live in Issan -- by choice. Great if you are happy but your prices isn't an accurate representation of where most people we get into contact live.

In Bangkok the prices are much higher for everything, hence 3,000 for a small room with a fan is a normal cost.

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<br>Just arrived home in chiang mai from another trip to bangkok.Seems that the taxis at the airport CHIANG MAI are getting worse then those in BKK ! I was asked if i wanted a taxi meter and when i asked how much to hillside 3 i was told 200 baht.They thought i was a tourist and when i told them i lived here for three year's now,two of the driver's just looked at each other and smiled.They knew they were caught especially when there were three newly arrived tourists sitting nearby and listening to the conversation.They quoted another price of 150 baht and i walked away and took a red taxi for 80 baht.Wonder why the tourist number's are declining.<br><br>I n regards to quality tourists,i see TAT stated they will focus on the middle east tourist well,those are mainly the people i see now in BKK as tourists and,they do nothing but try and bargain.Gripe and do not want to pay 50 baht for a pair of sandals.These are the quality tourists they want to attract wow.Also,they are very rude in their actions and speaking.Quality ?I don't think so.<br>I<br>
<br><br>

Hear, hear. You have summed up nicely, my experiences to date, with nearly all thepeople that I have met or seen from that part of the world. There must be exceptions - in fact I have met 2 so far in the last 30 years, who I do not hesitate to call "salt of the earth" and terrific friends -, though I have yet to meet or see any others. This sector also tries to stay very much around people of their own culture/religion rather than try to integrate and mix and I have yet to see any of them - even my 2 friends- try to make any concessions to Thai culture or any other for that matter. I am unfortunately a regular visitor to Bangkok Hospital too, where 80%++ of the patients are from the middle east, so I get to observe their behavior and "culture" more than I would like. Please don't say that I am "racist/bigoted" etc. cause I am not and I believe in free choice and any religion that advocates peace and tolerance, help your neighbor or any that need help and who try to improve society without jamming their beliefs down your throat, is fine with me. It also seems to me too, from watching/listening to the News and my own experiences to date, that most those same countries in the middle east, seem to have a much higher incidence of "fanatics/lunatics" and human rights abuse than they have any right to. I don't say that they are lower quality people, just that in my opinion as well as yours it seems, they don't seem to be the "ideal type/sector" to try and attract to increase the income from tourists, to this country I call home. As for taxis having a 2 tier price system, I can't say as I really blame them. Think on this. If you were back in your own country and a taxi overcharged some apparently wealthy tourist , then charged you the

"normal rate" to the same destination, would you go out of your way to "haul him/her" over the coals just to get some stranger the "local rate"? I doubt it. I also doubt, that the Prime Minister here, with his fancy education and apparent smarts, really believed or supported the statement he made/was asked to make on this "new direction/policy" to

improve the income from tourism. I too think that this policy, statement or whatever, will only damage the industry, not help it, let alone improve it. I hope it gets swept under the nearest rug. Also. I strongly disagree with those who say there is "no quality tourism or entertainment" here. The many friends who come here to visit us, both from the UK and NZ, have all gone back home saying that they had an excellent holiday, that Thailand is wonderful and they can't wait to come back. Even the few who did come here for "girls, sex, booze and rock an roll" and whom I took to decent places on the outskirts of Bangkok that don't see many foreigners, said they had the "time of their lives" and it didn't cost them "an arm or a leg - or anything else......" OK. So the language was a bit of a problem, but the moves were pretty much international in that situation and I translated where required. They couldn't believe their luck, that these stunning ladies actually wanted to be with them and have a good time. Other friends, some elderly, whom we took "up country or to the beach" were just as impressed with the terrific service, genuine warmth and friendliness, along with top class beautiful scenery in a seemingly endless variety. Though again I must admit, that there were no crowds of other tourists to ruin the good time that we had where we stayed. There is a huge range and variety of wonderful places here in T/L, from the mountains to the sea to visit and stay at, if you take the time to find them and show some respect to the people and culture that you find there. Maybe it isn't dirt cheap, but it is certainly not very expensive and the "value for money" I have personally found here are unbeatable!

PS: Sorry about the double post. Tried to edit my first, as by accident I posted it before it was finished. This is the result............":("

Edited by newtronbom
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"Last year Thailand received 15.8 million international tourists, generating income of Bt585 million, he said."

That averages out at a tad over 37 Baht per international visitor. Is the quoted line a typo, or are the PM's advisors/scriptwriters slacking a bit?

Anyway, sad to say that Thailand (in common with just about every other country trying to entice tourists) can't be too picky at the moment.

So true, it makes you wonder if they know what the fuc_k they're actually talking about.

Surely it is a typo and should be billion. And as we all know alot more cash gets spent 'cash in hand deals' that the Gov cannot possibley have numbers on.

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I might be missing something here, but surely Thailand needs 'quantity' to fill up all those empty hotel rooms? Quality is just going to direct high profit business to a few hotels? Thus not much of a benefit to the whole tourism business in Thailand?

Yes, exactly. It is not only 5 Star hotels needing business here,

but the full range of business from hostels to staffed villa rentals, food stalls to Michelin star chefs, ALL needing business.

But the ones with the access to TOT's ears are the upper range guys

so of course they whine for their own market segment being under filled.

What concerns me the most is the apparent uncontrolled expansion in construction of new hotels which you mentioned in a previous message. I would dearly love to know which figures the hotel owners/investors use when calculating the viability of the project. I am well acquainted with a 5 star hotel up country that has been in business over 10 years. When it was built everyone believed it would be a white elephant, and I think the rack rates when it opened were close to 10k per night at 25 to the USD. Today, you can get a room for about 2k baht.

It seems that the uncontrolled, unplanned construction of these hotels of all star ratings has been continuing apace for the last 5 years at least in many of the tourist areas, although I can't say I know all of the tourist numbers. What figures were they predicting for actual tourism growth 5 years ago to encourage this continued expansion. It seems to me, all it has done is allow tour operators to bargain down the prices and allow service to drop as targetted revenues in the hotels don't even get close. Would the country magically come to a standstill if there was a stop on new hotel licenses once the current crop of hotels under construction are finished.

At least this would give a chance for everyone to step back and take a breath and make a proper plan. Would it be a tragedy if there was a small shortage of rooms in the resorts, but it at least allowed the prices for accommodation to firm up a little bit instead of being discounted to the ground.

Of course the global recession is hurting tourism, of course the yellow/red mess has dissuaded a certain percentage of people from coming. But what is wrong with taking a given resort as it stands today and not expanding it any more for the next 5 years, give the authorities some time to really focus on improving the environment in those resorts, and stop cheapening the investments that have already been made and trying to spread thinner revenues around and ever increasing amount of establishments.

Wasn't it Thaksin's master plan to convince investors to build 5 star hotels in ChiangMai, plus promising to expand the airport into an international "hub", plus all the high end attractions like safari park etc??? How is the plan coming along??? All working perfectly?

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I might be missing something here, but surely Thailand needs 'quantity' to fill up all those empty hotel rooms? Quality is just going to direct high profit business to a few hotels? Thus not much of a benefit to the whole tourism business in Thailand?

Yes, exactly. It is not only 5 Star hotels needing business here,

but the full range of business from hostels to staffed villa rentals, food stalls to Michelin star chefs, ALL needing business.

But the ones with the access to TOT's ears are the upper range guys

so of course they whine for their own market segment being under filled.

I think you mean TAT = Tourism Authority of Thailand !!!

TOT = Telephone Organization of Thailand is the main Phone company in Thailand

But maybe you spell Authority with an " O " where you come from

TAT was originally TOT :lol:

Tourisim Of Thailand as it is occasionally called.

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As a person actually in the tourism industry, I'll tell you: "any tourist is better than no tourist".

I can cater to the "higher class tourist" as easily as the "whorist", and everyone in between.

A Baht is a Baht, whether it is spent at a brothel or a 5* restaurant.

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the land where one gains the impression that the inhabitants would be happier if we all just arrived on a plane emptied all our available money into a waiting bin and then got back on a plane leaving.

It's been like that for years.....where have you been hiding? Farangs are tolerated because they have money...nothing else.

Yep

I'm not a big fan of Thailand even though I live here out of necessity, but I do not get that impression about thais at all. I have plenty of Thai friends and they aren't hanging out for my money and the vendors near my house that I deal with, I'm charged the same as everyone else. If you are nice here, talk to them and smile, Thais love you.

I find Thais helpful and kind.

Snap. I find the Thai folk around me more amenable and friendly than those in the country that I once called home.

BTW Many of the old guys that you see in Pattaya are no longer in the sex scene. Most can't even remember any more how to do it and climbing the stairs of a bag shanty for a bit of naughty would prove to be a major operation. Having a lady to take care of you is not prostitution else most of the nursing homes in the UK would be closed down. It is not uncommon to see senior citizens bereft of a limb lost in the service of their country and their ungrateful Governments don't give a toss about them; others are merely losing their physical powers. Unable to afford much needed help, and with the breakup of the traditional family, Thailand is a very viable option for them. Most have the nous to known that keeping a little darling in the style to which she is not accustomed is fraught with danger, neither would they have much in the way of a common interest. Most ladies know that in caring for a senior they have found a safe harbour from life's storms. To call them prostitutes would be a grave misunderstanding of the ladies roles and of the relationship both enjoy. Does anybody think that the golf caddies are prostitutes?

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A good start might be taking a bulldozer through places like Pattaya. Round up all the bargirls on the streets. Quality tourists don't flock to Thailand for ladyboys and the sex industry.

WELL SAID

Thank Heavens for that then. I had visions of running into the UK PM in Soi Cowboy. :lol:

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Also, the PM is able to recognise white trash when he sees/smells/hears it...unlike the average Thai who may think all farangs are rich and well-educated. So which leader wouldn't want to minimise white trash from arriving and worse still, setlling here and breeding?

I don't think that Thai people are that stupid. Shaven head, a mass of tattoos, an aversion to wearing suitable clothing and projecting an unwarranted superior attitude does not equate to Hi-So in the Thai mind.

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Does anybody think that the golf caddies are prostitutes?

From what I have been told....some are prepared to polish your balls on the 9th for a small consideration on some courses in Thailand......;)

And if you tip handsomely you might get a shot at playing the 19th hole.

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A good start might be taking a bulldozer through places like Pattaya. Round up all the bargirls on the streets. Quality tourists don't flock to Thailand for ladyboys and the sex industry.

I do not believe it would be of benefit to Thailand`s tourist industry if they were to close down it`s sex industry.

Thailand has for years been famous as an adult playground whose anything goes policies has brought it countless revenue to the country’s coffers. Contrary to popular belief not all sex tourists are perverts or depraved individuals how ever much they may appear so by the prim and proper.

As Las Vegas is renowned for it`s gambling venues, so was Thailand known for it`s sex industry. Both we could classify as immoral and if they shut down all the casinos in Vegas, it would seriously affect their tourist trade, same goes for Thailand, there is no difference. Chiang Mai is a good example of what can happen when clampdowns are enforced.

I do agree that things should be tidied up and put into prospective. Pattaya is well over the top, one big brothel and crime dwelling cesspit that should all be cleared away and sterilised.

The reason that tourists are bringing less money into Thailand is not because they are spending less, but for reasons that there are fewer tourists, that’s obvious no matter how brilliantly the government tries to construe and gloss over the facts.

If the Thai government really does decide to seriously put focus on quality tourists, which in real terms means, those of substantial wealth and not those generally visiting the country on a budget for a few sessions with the ladies and a bit of sight seeing, then this could have a serious knock on affect for all of us living here including the long term residents on annual visas, who are also regarded as temporary visitors no matter how long they stay here.

Taking into consideration that for the present most farangs are regarded by the Thais as rich from first world countries, the new focus policy if implemented could mean the rising of money amounts and incomes required by Immigration for obtaining visas.

The more influx of farangs of limited wealth that move here, the sooner the Thais will catch on to this and take some sort of actions to limit the flow of these people into Thailand and that includes all of us.

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A good start might be taking a bulldozer through places like Pattaya. Round up all the bargirls on the streets. Quality tourists don't flock to Thailand for ladyboys and the sex industry.

Thailand should not look a gift horse in the mouth. Very few "Quality" tourists are likely to bother with Thailand at all. The South of France is so much more inviting.

I wouldn't consider sex tourism much of a gift, especially when it's your son or daughter. The south of France is pretty chilly several months of the year, also. Keep things neat, limit congestion, clean up the markets, arrest maniac drivers, etc., 'quality' is more than exclusivity..

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