Has Anyone Actually Made A Real Friend Here...

[somtampet]

Maybe its you.

Many Farangs here look down upon Thai people, not just on this forum, but in real life too, if you're like that, don't expect too much. I see some really bad behavior towards Thai people from some Farangs, and some scathing totally over the top anti Thai posts on here, although it don't matter much here does it, just a bunch of bored old men complaining cos nothing better to do and nobody to do it with, but in real life it does matter

Personally, it's Farangs here that I am wary of, much more than Thais, I have a few Thai friends, I have some Farang friends also, but not that many as many are on the want, lost count of the money I have lent out to so called Farang friends and never got it back, funnily enough, I have lent Thai people money also and always go it back.

This is my experience in Thailand YMMV.

And before anybody chimes in with just you wait and take off those rose tinted glasses, I have been here continuous for 20 years.

Can u lend me a fe quid,you have good heart mate lollol

[jdinasia]

Those of you who think you have Thai friends...

please tell us ......

echoing sarahsbloke, whose point was that things might not be what they seem

He seems not to have any personal experience with having Thai friends to draw upon so imho he didn't have a point. The question then becomes ... why not?

Friendship usually builds over time, amongst people with similar interests (and often similar backgrounds!) My Thai friends are all middle-class, professionals with good jobs, usually are not interested in foreigners sexually, ARE interested in gaining different POV's, and are often interested in a decent bottle of wine

[geriatrickid]

James, I believe that you hit a raw nerve for some and I agree with you. Those that have replied saying they have friends tend to be older and have been in Thailand for a long enough time to have had the opportunity to make their friends and that's why they have a different perspective and experience. They too make valid points. Despite the denial type comment(s) that it's you that is the problem, rest assured that it is not. I only have 2 real Thai friends. Neither of them are that much different than me as they don't have too many friends here either. The work environment, 6 days a week and working hard, doesn't lend itself to nurturing new friendships as we know them in the west. It's not because they are weird or don't trust, but they are very busy taking care of families and making a living to be able to invest in new friendships. I think that the higher you go up the Thai education and job ladder, the more likely the people will have the friends. It is because they have the time and the opportunity to make the friends. My friend starts work at 08:00 hrs, finishes at around 17:00 hrs and goes to University. Sure he hs "friends" at work and at school, but they aren't the kind of friends you are talking about. We all have/had work and scohol friends like that.

[Thongkorn]

Yes i have many true Thai friends, They live in rural areas, Rannong. Kho lak, But i have made an effort to learn some Thai, I can go and live with them any time without as much as a baht being mentioned. The man that taught me most things i know about Thailand and living in Thailand is 73, I call him Dad or Par. (Paw). Also I have a Thai Friend in Phuket that owns a few buildings and rooms , If i go and stay he will not hear of me paying. As has been said before, there are good people in Thailand, like every where else in the world , a lot depends on how you want to integrate into the Thai culture. I trust them totally , I have lived in the Jungles with them for months,alone and isolated, and at no time have i felt threatened or unsafe. I could call them my family now , I am in constant touch with them by phone, I have known them over years and money is never talked about or hinted apone .

[stander]

The three Thai friends that I have known for more than twenty years are guys that I first met in the US on a training course and our friendship is as strong as ever.

The other three who I consider friends are guys who were introduced to me by two of the other three.

They are great guys who I know I can rely on at all times.

We recognize we have cultural differences and I have not tried to out Thai them and they out Farang me, we have just develop a strong friendship because of the many things we have in common and the things we don’t have in common.

[mstribling]

I have a handful of Thai friends here and it has changed my preconceived notions of this country and it's people. Without Thai friends I would have left already.

[Thongkorn]

I have a handful of Thai friends here and it has changed my preconceived notions of this country and it's people. Without Thai friends I would have left already.

You have taken time to listen and learn, the same as myself. I don't know every thing and i am willing to listen and learn.

Edited March 3, 2011 by Thongkorn

[WarpSpeed]

Sarahsbloke --- you self-admittedly have no Thai friends, but think you know more about the subject than those of us that do have Thai friends? WOW!

Sarahsbloke --- you self-admittedly have no Thai friends, but think you know more about the subject than those of us that do have Thai friends? WOW!

Yes, well said JD

But to be fair his point is accurate in terms of lust/love/friendship. How many here have complained or noticed how easy it is for Thai ladies to separate from their mates when the money is gone or even when the short time is over while the men continue to lust over or even fall in love but the feeling is purely a business deal from her perspective unbeknownst to the love/lust blinded guy.. Honestly why should friendships be much different? The sense to them that you may be just passing through can have a lot to do with that as lost friendships are as painful as any other so they keep you at arms length, can't blame them really..

For older retired foreigners, you come into peoples lives after many years and they already have established friendships cultivated over years that will always be closer then a stranger with entirely different cultures, traditions, the whole gamut suddenly dropping into their lives in it's midterms, kind of a lot to expect..

Edited March 3, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[jdinasia]

I rarely agree with GK (and don't totally agree with the post above) but he does hit most of the salient points. (and if you want to see how often he disagrees with me --- look at "reputation" on my profile and what he red marked me for

Time, similar interests, maturity, income etc all have a bearing, but that isn't the end of the discussion .. since he personally notes someone that doesn't have all of that going for him as a fiend.

Much, I think, depends on how you meet someone AND yours and their cultural outlooks. I am actually interested in Thais and am willing to discuss culture etc without judgement. I also let them control the discussions when the topic is Thai, letting them guide away from subjects that they are either sensitive about or have yet to develop the trust in me to discuss openly. Our discussions are as likely to be in English as they are to be in Thai etc etc etc .... The more cultural empathy/intelligence you have the easier it is to make friends here. Knowing which friends will be able to mix comfortably etc ....

I have to admit, I have quite a few casual friends/acquaintances amongst the working class, but only one real friend from that group. That friendship started at a coffee shop and worked its way into informal English lessons and finally into a friendship once he realized that I was far more egalitarian than most folks.

[Thongkorn]

I would Think that Many people form an opinion about Thailand , living in Pattaya, they buy companionship and drinking partners, have bad experiences about life as they see it, As they say get out a bit more.

[DP25]

Not really made any close friends here, Thai or foreign. Most of the people I consider close friends I've known since university. Casual friends or drinking and travel buddies with Thais and foreigners here but that's about the extent of it.

[jdinasia]

Warpspeed --- the question wasn't about love/lust and finances. It was about friendships.

I will grant you that more people than not, who have not learned the language past being able to order food from a street vendor, and those that are not seen as likely to be here long-term will probably have more of a hard-time developing friendships. I have only been here for 8 years and started learning Thai at CU in the first year.

Living outside of the farang ghettos probably helped me too. It may have actually been easier had I moved here 11 years older than when I did (I got here at 39) ...

[mstribling]

My definition of friends.

1. Aquintinces: drinking buddies, guys from work. 90% of the folks I hang out with. Personally I have many Thais who fit this.

2. Friends: someone who you would get out of bed, at 3 am and drive over 50km to help out. I have 2 Thais who would fit this description.

3. Brothers: someone who would help you dispose of the body. No Thais fit this, for me.

[WarpSpeed]

Warpspeed --- the question wasn't about love/lust and finances. It was about friendships.

I will grant you that more people than not, who have not learned the language past being able to order food from a street vendor, and those that are not seen as likely to be here long-term will probably have more of a hard-time developing friendships. I have only been here for 8 years and started learning Thai at CU in the first year.

Living outside of the farang ghettos probably helped me too. It may have actually been easier had I moved here 11 years older than when I did (I got here at 39) ...

Yes and I drew a valid comparison to all three.

The living with the locals is valid too and not insulating one's self from the local scene...

[DP25]

My definition of friends.

1. Aquintinces: drinking buddies, guys from work. 90% of the folks I hang out with. Personally I have many Thais who fit this.

2. Friends: someone who you would get out of bed, at 3 am and drive over 50km to help out. I have 2 Thais who would fit this description.

3. Brothers: someone who would help you dispose of the body. No Thais fit this, for me.

Yeah this a good description. I have no friends Thai or foreign here in category 2 and 3. I wouldn't even answer the phone at 3am for most I know

[sarahsbloke]

Those of you who think you have Thai friends...

please tell us ......

echoing sarahsbloke, whose point was that things might not be what they seem

He seems not to have any personal experience with having Thai friends to draw upon so imho he didn't have a point. The question then becomes ... why not?

Despite being able to read, write and speak Thai (a little bit)

Having hoardes of Thai relatives (in-laws) who force feed me their booze.

Living in a Thai only area (never seen another white face in my moobaan)

And producing a Thai child (nearly, just a few months left).

Why do I have no experience of having Thai friends?

Because, as I earlier stated, Thais don't really seem to have friends as we western people define it.

They seem to put all their efforts into family relationships.

Thailand is a bit of a fantasy world, and there are an awful lot of guys on this forum living the fantasy life.

Guys, learn to understand the Thai language and understand the Thai people.

Don't let yourselves become part of the fantasy, or it will destroy you.

[mstribling]

I understand what your talking about and it makes sense. Although I'm not sure about the impending doom and all, seeing how thousands of us live wonderful, content lives here.

?

What kind of friend do you see yourself as?

I've read examples how people can call upon Thais to assist them. What about Thais? Would they call on you if the situation didn't require money or English?

I think that would be a measure of friendship.

A lot of people are really concerned that the friendship is reciprocated. Why worry.

Be the friend you wish you had.

[james24]

James, I believe that you hit a raw nerve for some and I agree with you. Those that have replied saying they have friends tend to be older and have been in Thailand for a long enough time to have had the opportunity to make their friends and that's why they have a different perspective and experience. They too make valid points. Despite the denial type comment(s) that it's you that is the problem, rest assured that it is not. I only have 2 real Thai friends. Neither of them are that much different than me as they don't have too many friends here either. The work environment, 6 days a week and working hard, doesn't lend itself to nurturing new friendships as we know them in the west. It's not because they are weird or don't trust, but they are very busy taking care of families and making a living to be able to invest in new friendships. I think that the higher you go up the Thai education and job ladder, the more likely the people will have the friends. It is because they have the time and the opportunity to make the friends. My friend starts work at 08:00 hrs, finishes at around 17:00 hrs and goes to University. Sure he hs "friends" at work and at school, but they aren't the kind of friends you are talking about. We all have/had work and scohol friends like that.

I guess working hard does play a role in not being able to socialise as much. But I really do believe there is an unspoken fear going on between Thais and Thais and Thais and Farangs.

On the other hand many very experienced posts in here with some views I hadn't really thought about and perhaps Ill bear in mind a bit more while Im still here

Think it might just be time to move on to somewhere where I feel a bit more normal again.

[fletchsmile]

I have some good Thai friends, and a couple of very good Thai friends. I have a lot of good expat friends and some very good expat friends. In short I have significantly more expat friends than Thai.

I believe there are valid anthropological and cultural reasons why most expats have more expat friends than Thai. I value friendships very highly and they are one of the most important things in my life.

If you're interested, there are some great anthropological studies out there and some great books on culture too. "Working with the Thais" is a great book to start with, with a good bibliography. The real fun comes trying linking the theories with real life

[phetaroi]

From over the years, and through my year-and-a-half living in Thailand (before moving back to the States last May, I had a few Thai friends. For many years a Thai family that lived up in Chiang Mai. Treated me wonderfully, although that was through a Thai friend back in the States. But I never went to Thailand for many years that I didn't spend some time visiting them, and they treated me as a best friend of the family. Over the years most of the other Thai friends kind of drifted in and out of my life, sometimes popping up years later. And then there was my "roommate" in Bangkok. Well educated at Chula U with BA and MA. From a good working family in Issan. But in the end, cheated me out of mucho money (long story). But that brings me to a friend of mine who lived in Thailand for many years. Let's just say an American with an American spouse who was "official". Lived here for many years. They both loved Thailand. Have come back a few times to do charity work. Recently I've been back in touch with them and told them of my not-so-happy farewell to Thailand. I'll paraphrase what they said to me: they had learned that no matter how close Thai people seem, in the end they never inherently trusted them "beyond their own self-interests". Then there's my adopted son, who is Pakistani. Can't understand why I would ever want to live in Thailand because of the international reputation of how Thais are always in "international friendships"...for $$$.

I loved my years visiting Thailand. Loved my time living there (until May 19). Value some of the friendships along the way. But, the more I got to know Thailand and Thais, the more cynical I became.

[jdinasia]

Despite being able to read, write and speak Thai (a little bit)

Having hoardes of Thai relatives (in-laws) who force feed me their booze.

Living in a Thai only area (never seen another white face in my moobaan)

And producing a Thai child (nearly, just a few months left).

Why do I have no experience of having Thai friends?

Because, as I earlier stated, Thais don't really seem to have friends as we western people define it.

They seem to put all their efforts into family relationships.

Thailand is a bit of a fantasy world, and there are an awful lot of guys on this forum living the fantasy life.

Guys, learn to understand the Thai language and understand the Thai people.

Don't let yourselves become part of the fantasy, or it will destroy you.

Now that you explained I can see WHY our experiences differ. If you write Thai you are better than me at one skill at least, but I sit in and conduct meetings in Thai on a regular basis and read fairly proficiently (weakest in writing and second weakest in speaking -- getting near fluent in listening and close to that in reading!) I would suggest that we deal with different types of people for a large part. Most of the Thais I know don't live in the same provinces they were born in/that their families live in.

Or .... simply because you live in an isolated family unit that all live locally? Your experience and mine vary greatly and most probably because I don't have a huge Thai family that serves in effect to isolate me from other people?

I would assume your Thai family members are similar to mine other than none of mine live in close proximity to each other. In other words, the individual members of your family have close friends that they have had for ages. My BF lives and works in BKK in a high level corporate position and has his 6-7 friends that have all been friends from his uni days or before. His sister lives just outside of BKK with her husband and deliberately NOT in her husband's family compound or with her mother's family compound (although they have a house/space with each extended family.) Weekends are split between the two families. She maintains her close friendships from uni/hs days. My BF's best friend since elementary school is still his best friend. His other long-term friends are similar. The friends I brought with me to the relationship are newer to him but he has started engaging with them socially without me.

[Senia]

there is good and bad in every nationality, race, creed and religion. maybe you have just been unlucky to not meet the right people

[bifftastic]

When the ChCh earthquake happened last week, my friends were the ones on the phone immediately asking if any of our nurses were affected, and when told yes they jumped into helping me find out any information from any source. 2 stayed up about 24 hours just trying to help (and helping me stay calm and collected so I could do what I needed to do. I lost a close friend and another friend in Christchurch ... and the sense of loss is brutal. True friends are hard to come by and the loss of even one is tough.

So sorry to hear about your loss.

[jdinasia]

When the ChCh earthquake happened last week, my friends were the ones on the phone immediately asking if any of our nurses were affected, and when told yes they jumped into helping me find out any information from any source. 2 stayed up about 24 hours just trying to help (and helping me stay calm and collected so I could do what I needed to do. I lost a close friend and another friend in Christchurch ... and the sense of loss is brutal. True friends are hard to come by and the loss of even one is tough.

So sorry to hear about your loss.

Me too!

But the anecdote was to point out that these were Thai people (both the friends that died and those that came to help me out), They came to help out of simple friendship because they knew I was in pain. They stopped and grabbed food and jacked into the wifi and were off ... they skipped work to help a friend that was in pain and feeling bad ... They call daily even now when they see news and one volunteered to fly to NZ to be my eyes on the ground there. (I already had that covered by the end of the first 24 hours.)

I do agree that for many foreigners in Thailand, that more than casual friendship is probably elusive for many reasons but I also know many of us here that have been here for years that have real and meaningful friendships with the kind of depth that exist in "the West."

[PingManDan]

Yes I have made a good friend, my caddie, where I live & play golf on my home course, she has been my caddie for about two years, and we get along superbly. There has never been any hanky panky going on between us, if that happened it would truely be the end of a great relationship :jap:

[Tonto21]

To start with I believe everyone’s definition of a friend is different. One person’s friend, by definition would be seen as an acquaintance by another. I have known, to date in my life hundred’s maybe thousands of acquaintance, some good, some bad and some indifferent. As for friend’s, I find it interesting that so many people use the word friend to describe everyone they know.

I don’t need to tell anyone on Thaivisa that friends are hard to find and as we get older we tend to collect more acquaintance then we do friends, IMHO as a male over 45 if you have more than one good friend, your very lucky, acquaintance…sure you’ll have loads of them, bar flies, golfing buddies and that guy, (what’s his name) who lives down your soi.

Face it guys, fact is, a true friend is harder to find than a wife, and that go’s for anywhere in the world. A friendship is a marriage of minds, mutual respect, a willingness to go that extra mile for your friend, expect nothing in return and be there for the good and bad. Also time a and distance does not diminish a friendship, I meet an old friend last year, I’d not spoke to him for over 20 years, fantastic, it felt like it had only been two weeks.

I have three friends in Thailand, one Thai, a German and a Brit, I consider myself very lucky, and I only hope my three friends see me, as I see them. But don’t misunderstand me; I have some great mates, (acquaintance) we get up to some pretty wild and crazy stuff, (even as trainee pensioners) but there are limits as to how trusting I am of my acquaintance.

Be they friend or acquaintance, you have to make that call. But remember it’s a two way street, some time’s you are the one that has to go way out on that limb to find a friend. True friendship…..Deep fried gold!

[Berkshire]

Having some good male Thai friends is essential to integrating fully in Thailand. And I'm not talking about guys that you met through your GF/wife. Let's face it, most farangs date women who are from a lower economic-class from themselves. It stands to reason that all of their friends and family come from the same background. Nothing wrong with that, but that produces barriers that are hard to overcome. Do you think guys in farangland who are strictly upper class hang out with working class guys? Not unless they grew up with them.

I have several close Thai male friends whom I met through work. All stand-up guys, the sorts of friends that I can count on if the going ever got tough. It's great to get their perspective on stuff because they'll tell you how it is in Thailand, and not just what you want to hear (as many Thai women tend to do). And these guys have much better insight than any farang. Speaking Thai is essential, although some of these guys speak English pretty well.

I'll concede that it's tough to get into the inner sanctum with these guys. Most of their closest friends are guys that they grew up with, have known for many years. I'm certainly not the "best" friend of these guys, but that's not important. As long as we have something in common and can hang out, that's fine. It's never about the money.

I have a personal pet peeve and that's with guys that come on really strong after having just met, i.e., TOO friendly. This tends to be the case more with farangs, as if they think we're lifelong buddies just because we're westerners in Thailand. I do have many farang friends, but tend to be rather suspicious of guys that are overly friendly right at the outset.

[bina]

its interesteing, this topic. first of all, i assume (know most of u virtually speaking) most of u are male. i didnt realize that males worry so much of close friendships in the same way women seem to do... but...

there are several good points made by poeple that i find i usually dont agree with: !

firstly, the defination of what is a friend.

then cultural assumptions about what friendship is for.

-- i live on kibbutz and once one of my neighbhors said something very smart after a particularly heated assembly meeting: 'i wont ever consider anyone here a real friend because one day they may hve to vote against me or my kids in some general assembly, for studies, house or other needs' (she also being a born and bred kibbutznik from here)... but she could be a good neighbhor (remember robert frost)

i have three girlfriends in the bpast 20+ years here. and, again, to quote one of them " as i get older, i find i have less time and inclination to become deep friends with new people, and prefer time with myself and my partner/kids/grandkids to be"

in many cultures, 'friends' = 'protection' (financial help if needed, networking, helping out when needed, depending on the situation) but almost always a 'do and therefore receive back' situation. nothing very altruistic in these freindships, they are useful and fun.

in a many cultures, friends beyond the 'neccesary scratching of backs exchanges' are not useful nor needed. there is family.

family connections take precedance over any other relationship. not sure anymore about americans for instance, since i am american and have basic connections with my family back home but havent been back since 1980. i am closer to my two female friends here on kibbutz (more like my sisters, then my sister is). howver, here, family is NUMBER 1. family takes precedance and families are large and extended, and they take up lots of time (births, holidays, celebrations, engagements, if u have 5 siblings and they all have kids, u never have time or money for other peoples' celebrations, etc.

from what i can see from my thai husband and his 'friends'here and in korat, they are useful, fun, funtional but when push comes to shove, family is NUMBER 1.

and as someone else pointed out, country /small town thais (i dont know any hi/so or city thais so cant compare their behavior patterns) thais are together, like here on kibbutz here, from birth til death. they know eachother inside and out. they have no need to widen their 'social' circle unless they can benefit from it (fun or financial or work related connections). therefore, someone new, and culturally different, with different desires or expectations about friendship, is just too difficult to deal with.

so 'aquaintance' is about as good as it can get.

bina

israel

[KRS1]

Maybe its you.

Many Farangs here look down upon Thai people, not just on this forum, but in real life too, if you're like that, don't expect too much. I see some really bad behavior towards Thai people from some Farangs, and some scathing totally over the top anti Thai posts on here, although it don't matter much here does it, just a bunch of bored old men complaining cos nothing better to do and nobody to do it with, but in real life it does matter

Personally, it's Farangs here that I am wary of, much more than Thais, I have a few Thai friends, I have some Farang friends also, but not that many as many are on the want, lost count of the money I have lent out to so called Farang friends and never got it back, funnily enough, I have lent Thai people money also and always go it back.

This is my experience in Thailand YMMV.

And before anybody chimes in with just you wait and take off those rose tinted glasses, I have been here continuous for 20 years.

Maybe that's it, maybe you just haven't been here long enough, many Farangs don't stay that long, most are passing through, run out of money whatever and leave. It takes time, but friends can certainly be found amongst Thai people, just try to treat them as you would anyone else.

If you stayed in Korea or Japan, you'd probably have the same thoughts, I'm sure if you went to any Farang based forum in any country the moans about the country and the people would be similar to the moans here about Thailand and Thai people.

Remember, it's you that is different in this country, not the Thais, adapt, adapt adapt.

MrsMills, you are awesome. :jap:

[MSingh]

Maybe its you.

Many Farangs here look down upon Thai people, not just on this forum, but in real life too, if you're like that, don't expect too much. I see some really bad behavior towards Thai people from some Farangs, and some scathing totally over the top anti Thai posts on here, although it don't matter much here does it, just a bunch of bored old men complaining cos nothing better to do and nobody to do it with, but in real life it does matter

Personally, it's Farangs here that I am wary of, much more than Thais, I have a few Thai friends, I have some Farang friends also, but not that many as many are on the want, lost count of the money I have lent out to so called Farang friends and never got it back, funnily enough, I have lent Thai people money also and always go it back.

This is my experience in Thailand YMMV.

And before anybody chimes in with just you wait and take off those rose tinted glasses, I have been here continuous for 20 years.

Good luck to you, in your 0.001% of people World you live in..