Tourist Deaths In Chiang Mai Just A ‘Coincidence’

[george]

Tourist deaths in Chiang Mai just a ‘coincidence’

CHIANG MAI: -- The deaths of two Britons, a young New Zealander and a Thai tourist guide, within a few days of each other in the same hotel was just ‘a coincidence’ Thai authorities claimed today.

An elderly British couple who died together in Room 423 of the Downtown Inn in Chiang Mai, died within minutes of each of heart attacks, and the case has been closed.

But tests were still being conducted into the death 23-yr-old New Zealander Sarah Carter, who died in a local hospital, after she and three friends were taken seriously ill in Room 516 Downtown Hotel in the northern Thai capital.

And further tests were still being conducted on a Thai tourist guide Waraporn Yingmahasaranont, whose body was found next door in the bathroom of Room 518 of the same hotel earlier.

Full story: http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2011/03/08/tourist-deaths-in-chiang-mai-just-a-coincidence/

-- Andrew-Drummond.com 2011-03-08

[TAWP]

At the press conference at Chiang Mai police headquarters today Chiang Mai Governor Pannada Disakul tried to allay fears of tourists caused by the four deaths in one hotel last month by saying: “We have to admit that these deaths coming one after another, are nothing more than coincidence. We have done and will continue to do our utmost to make tourists confident in our city.”

I was hoping that they would say that they would do their utmost to find out what the tourists died of...

[MAJIC]

Coincidence that four people died in the same Hotel? within days of each other?

And two died within minutes of each other from Heart Attacks,Unbelievable.

More like: yet another cover up to protect Thai Tourism!

It goes On and On,Week after Week,Month after Month,Year on Year,.......ad infinitum.

Edited March 8, 2011 by MAJIC

[surayu]

Money passing hands can just be another casual coincidence.....so sad really, RIP.

[BuckarooBanzai]

Mai Pen Rai. You will hear it many times before you get out of Thailand, often when something goes wrong or someone looses their cool "or dies of unknown causes". This simple phrase sums up life in Thailand and the attitude there in general. There are lots of different opinions on the direct translation, but it literally means "no worries" or "its nothing".

Just to clarify - one can hear the phrase just a little too often!

Edited March 8, 2011 by BuckarooBanzai

[Steely Dan]

Did anyone for even a nanosecond expect anything else?

[stepenwolf1958]

Did anyone for even a nanosecond expect anything else?

Very true, unfortunately...

Something more is interesting. Room numbers, 516 and 518 are next door. I could bet the time of "accident" in both rooms match.

[kuffki]

Of course it is! coincidence that is.

Just like other foreigners found hanging by the neck on 5 cm ropes or with a bullet hole in the back of the head is a suicide or foreigners found dead in the room is also a suicide while the entire safe full of money is missing.

But my favorite is foreigners falling out from their balcony's those are either suicides or they were very drunk.

Not to mock, but a genuine question, when it comes to locals, is it the same kind of detective work or different?

[tigermonkey]

Coincidence that four people died in the same Hotel? within days of each other?

And two died within minutes of each other from Heart Attacks,Unbelievable.

More like: yet another cover up to protect Thai Tourism!

It goes On and On,Week after Week,Month after Month,Year on Year,.......ad infinitum.

I sincerely doubt that here is any " cover up" here - for there to be a cover up, there would need to be accurate knowlege of the cause of the deaths. I do not believe that the police have any idea of the cause, nor do they care .

If nothing is known, nothing can be covered up.

The better term to use here is " stonewalling" -- " Noun1.stonewalling - stalling or delaying especially by refusing to answer questions or cooperate - a tactic used to mislead or delay"

If you practice stonewalling, you don't need to cover up. You merely wait for the commotion to fade away.

Edited March 8, 2011 by tigermonkey

[surayu]

"or dies of unknown causes".

or better say "they don't want you to know causes" TIT

[roamer]

Be interesting to see if the bodies of the British couple are repatriated rather than cremated in LOS. Under English law an inquest would then have to be held. I think the coroner would raise an eyebrow at this particular "coincidence" and order another autopsy. Even with the passage of time there could be some interesting results emerging.

[happyrobert]

I was a cop, a detective at that, and I've met a fair share of Thai "detectives" in the last few years.Spent hours talking with them.

Simply put, they generally possess a total lack of even rudimentary training and couldn't detect an elephant in a life raft.

So, in many cases, it's not that they are "covering something up," it's that they lack the skills, techniques, experience and facilities to uncover anything. Therefore it is easier to claim it a coincidence than to admit they are stymied, and are clueless as to what to do next.

It's more the old "saving face" thing than mai pen rai.

[AZBill]

At the press conference at Chiang Mai police headquarters today Chiang Mai Governor Pannada Disakul tried to allay fears of tourists caused by the four deaths in one hotel last month by saying: "We have to admit that these deaths coming one after another, are nothing more than coincidence. We have done and will continue to do our utmost to make tourists confident in our city."

I was hoping that they would say that they would do their utmost to find out what the tourists died of...

You're kidding right? Do you think the Chiang Mai police honestly care? Heck we still can't even get the facts on David Carradine dying in Bangkok. Farangs don't matter here. Never did, never will.

[kuffki]

I was a cop, a detective at that, and I've met a fair share of Thai "detectives" in the last few years.Spent hours talking with them.

Simply put, they generally possess a total lack of even rudimentary training and couldn't detect an elephant in a life raft.

So, in many cases, it's not that they are "covering something up," it's that they lack the skills, techniques, experience and facilities to uncover anything. Therefore it is easier to claim it a coincidence than to admit they are stymied, and are clueless as to what to do next.

It's more the old "saving face" thing than mai pen rai.

Without even speaking to any so called detective, i have to agree with you.

I do not think there even is a police academy or detective school, i do not think they have forensic labs, if they do, i doubt its well equipped or even equipped at all(just look at police stations and police vehicles, including bikes)

Autopsy cost money(which again they do not have or do not want to spend) and again may not have properly trained staff, just look at public hospitals, some docs can not even diagnose appendix.

So its no alternative but to declare every death as suicide or accident, unless its so clear, that they simply can not make such a statement, but then the killers are hardly every found,unless police is tipped off

[ginjag]

I was a cop, a detective at that, and I've met a fair share of Thai "detectives" in the last few years.Spent hours talking with them.

Simply put, they generally possess a total lack of even rudimentary training and couldn't detect an elephant in a life raft.

So, in many cases, it's not that they are "covering something up," it's that they lack the skills, techniques, experience and facilities to uncover anything. Therefore it is easier to claim it a coincidence than to admit they are stymied, and are clueless as to what to do next.

It's more the old "saving face" thing than mai pen rai.

Without even speaking to any so called detective, i have to agree with you.

I do not think there even is a police academy or detective school, i do not think they have forensic labs, if they do, i doubt its well equipped or even equipped at all(just look at police stations and police vehicles, including bikes)

Autopsy cost money(which again they do not have or do not want to spend) and again may not have properly trained staff, just look at public hospitals, some docs can not even diagnose appendix.

So its no alternative but to declare every death as suicide or accident, unless its so clear, that they simply can not make such a statement, but then the killers are hardly every found,unless police is tipped off

TAT--this is only another 4 that won't be coming back through Swampy. But with 40 million +--who cares.

[Flatouthruthefog]

<br />Be interesting to see if the bodies of the British couple are repatriated rather than cremated in LOS. Under English law an inquest would then have to be held. I think the coroner would raise an eyebrow at this particular "coincidence" and order another autopsy. Even with the passage of time there could be some interesting results emerging.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Foreign coroners can raise all the eyebrows they may possess, but do you really think that will have any effect?

Very recently, an English coroner expressed himself totally dissatisfied with a Thai police report on a young/middle aged Brit who (in the words of the immortal Kojak) "de-fenestrated" from an upper hotel window in Chiang Mai.

The sort of commonplace 'accident' of which we read every week from Pattaya.

What a shock, eh? And what will result from that international wrap over the knuckles, huh? Sweet fa, as we know.

It's about time we all realised that the govts of (in alphabetical order), Australia, UK and USA are so "vastly impressed" by Thai authorities' efforts to keep drugs out of their own nations that minor inconveniences like these will always be glossed over.

And they may be kidding themselves - because they sure aren't kidding me.

[onnut]

The sad thing is, I have become numb to this sort of news. I expect it, I know the answer before I get to the end of the first paragraph. I don't even blink anymore!

I hope I become more compassionate when I move back to the UK.

[Thaddeus]

The sad thing is, I have become numb to this sort of news. I expect it, I know the answer before I get to the end of the first paragraph. I don't even blink anymore!

I hope I become more compassionate when I move back to the UK.

Ditto.

Hopefully without moving back to the UK my compassion for the victims will remain the same, but my disdain for the authorities increases daily.

[Beetlejuice]

Cover up or no cover up, there is no way would I ever stay at the Doomtown Downtown Inn.

The place should be officially closed down until a positive convincing report has been published regarding these suspicious deaths.

[Buchholz]

Cover up or no cover up, there is no way would I ever stay at the Doomtown Downtown Inn.

The place should be officially closed down until a positive convincing report has been published regarding these suspicious deaths.

Are they a sponsor?

.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Buchholz

[roamer]

<br />Be interesting to see if the bodies of the British couple are repatriated rather than cremated in LOS. Under English law an inquest would then have to be held. I think the coroner would raise an eyebrow at this particular "coincidence" and order another autopsy. Even with the passage of time there could be some interesting results emerging.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Foreign coroners can raise all the eyebrows they may possess, but do you really think that will have any effect?

Very recently, an English coroner expressed himself totally dissatisfied with a Thai police report on a young/middle aged Brit who (in the words of the immortal Kojak) "de-fenestrated" from an upper hotel window in Chiang Mai.

The sort of commonplace 'accident' of which we read every week from Pattaya.

What a shock, eh? And what will result from that international wrap over the knuckles, huh? Sweet fa, as we know.

It's about time we all realised that the govts of (in alphabetical order), Australia, UK and USA are so "vastly impressed" by Thai authorities' efforts to keep drugs out of their own nations that minor inconveniences like these will always be glossed over.

And they may be kidding themselves - because they sure aren't kidding me.

Well seeing as both the UK and US governments have failed to gag British coroners (most controversially in the case of British soldiers killed in Afghanistan by "friendly fire" )and prevent them from carrying out their duties, I doubt that they will be rolling over for the Thai's. In the case of the de-fenestration you mentioned;

" An English coroner has expressed dissatisfaction with a Thai police report on the death of 40-yr-old Yorkshireman Edward Fairburn who fell from the Centara Group’s Duangtawan Hotel in Chiang Mail last year.

Halifax Coroner Roger Whittaker said: “I have grave concerns over the lack of information I have particularly in relation to how Mr Fairburn came by his death.

“It seems the Thai police have reached the conclusion that there were no suspicious circumstances but they have not provided any information on why they took that view.”

It was highly unlikely that an autopsy would have shed any light on the above case as what was needed there was adequate police investigation along the lines of "did he fall or was he pushed" that obviously was not going to happen. In this case we know how the subject died but nothing about the events leading up to his death.

In the case of the British tourists we also lack a clear understanding of the events leading up to the deaths. We do however have a Thai autopsy report of cardiac arrest(s). There has been quite a bit of speculation that a toxin, or toxins, were involved in not only these deaths but also the other deaths at the hotel. If that is the case and tissue samples and preferably, the bodies, are subjected to forensic analysis in the UK we may well have an indication of what caused these deaths.

As cynical as I and many others on TV maybe about our governments I doubt you will find many in agreement with your premise. And probably even fewer that they could persuade a Coroner to brush it under the carpet.

Your right on one thing though, it won't change anything. TIT.

[janverbeem]

Of course it is! coincidence that is.

Just like other foreigners found hanging by the neck on 5 cm ropes or with a bullet hole in the back of the head is a suicide or foreigners found dead in the room is also a suicide while the entire safe full of money is missing.

But my favorite is foreigners falling out from their balcony's those are either suicides or they were very drunk.

Not to mock, but a genuine question, when it comes to locals, is it the same kind of detective work or different?

You certainly missed the multiple suicides in a short timespan in pattaya several years ago where the victim had a plastic bag over his head,taped around his neck and his hands tied behind his back.

[janverbeem]

Cover up or no cover up, there is no way would I ever stay at the Doomtown Downtown Inn.

The place should be officially closed down until a positive convincing report has been published regarding these suspicious deaths.

Are they a sponsor?

.

Worse,seems to be owned by a member of a family that can't be mentioned

[Junglejumbo]

These deaths are very likely caused by cyanide.

The cases in Chiang Mai are very similar to what happened in Phi Phi two years ago when four people also died and a few people fell very sick but recovered. They all stayed at the same guest house. Like this time, the police said that the deaths were a co-incidence and the guest house remains open with the same owner today. The autopsey was inconclusive but referred to a possibility of a food poison or other toxin. The police unofficially said they drank moonlight (although not together) somewhere however one of the victims didn't drink according to her boyfriend.

At Phi Phi there was a waste water treatment being expanded by the guest house owners to serve Phi Phi and one way to sterilize the new equipment before use is to coat it with a chemical agent containing cyanide.

Cyanide in tiny doeses causes severe food poisoning like symptoms and violent cramps. In higher does it's fatal with seizure of respitary and heart muscles. It's very easy to buy chemical compounds containing cyanide, especially bags of industrial cleaners imported (probably illegally) from China via the north of Thailand. Cyanide is almost odourless and tasteless.

The only food poison that could kill quickly is clostiduim botulinum which is found in damaged cans. However, botulinum would not kill two people almost simultaneously. Botulinum would also not be found on bbq port of chicken from outside however dirty while from cans would be a widespread problem not confined to the 5th floor of one hotel. E-coli is another potentially fatal pathagen but death is not common in healthy adults and patients would be sick for several days or even a couple of weeks.

Some posters have mentioned carbon monoxide. This is very unlikely as air-conditioners are electric not gas, unless there was a fire somewhere behind the air-condition but then there should also be smoke, and carbon monixde makes one sleepy rather than violently sick

Legionnairs once in every few years breaks-out somewhere and is a potentially lethal virus that can trap it's self in dirty air-conditioning units. However, the problem wouldn't just dissapear but would become a growing and continuing problem not just for guests in a room but also for cleaning staff and others.

Eating puffer fish causes muscle paralysis including the heart and lungs. It can also start with severe stomach upsets and cramps, however, there's not usually any in between. If you eat the contaminated mean, you're dead. Also, probably unlikely to for sale in Chiang Mai albeit once it was found on a market stall in some off beat Thai city a few years ago.

Other possibilities are a heavy dose of pesticides, many of which are odourless these days or some other chemicals such as the ones used for lethal injections. However, cyanide remains the easiest to buy.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Junglejumbo

[Junglejumbo]

These deaths are very likely caused by cyanide.

The cases in Chiang Mai are very similar to what happened in Phi Phi two years ago when four people also died and a few people fell very sick but recovered. They all stayed at the same guest house. Like this time, the police said that the deaths were a co-incidence and the guest house remains open with the same owner today. The autopsey was inconclusive but referred to a possibility of a food poison or other toxin. The police unofficially said they drank moonlight (although not together) somewhere however one of the victims didn't drink according to her boyfriend.

At Phi Phi there was a waste water treatment being expanded by the guest house owners to serve Phi Phi and one way to sterilize the new equipment before use is to coat it with a chemical agent containing cyanide.

Cyanide in tiny doeses causes severe food poisoning like symptoms and violent cramps. In higher does it's fatal with seizure of respitary and heart muscles. It's very easy to buy chemical compounds containing cyanide, especially bags of industrial cleaners imported (probably illegally) from China via the north of Thailand. Cyanide is almost odourless and tasteless.

The only food poison that could kill quickly is clostiduim botulinum which is found in damaged cans. However, botulinum would not kill two people almost simultaneously. Botulinum would also not be found on bbq port of chicken from outside however dirty while from cans would be a widespread problem not confined to the 5th floor of one hotel. E-coli is another potentially fatal pathagen but death is not common in healthy adults and patients would be sick for several days or even a couple of weeks.

Some posters have mentioned carbon monoxide. This is very unlikely as air-conditioners are electric not gas, unless there was a fire somewhere behind the air-condition but then there should also be smoke, and carbon monixde makes one sleepy rather than violently sick

Legionnairs once in every few years breaks-out somewhere and is a potentially lethal virus that can trap it's self in dirty air-conditioning units. However, the problem wouldn't just dissapear but would become a growing and continuing problem not just for guests in a room but also for cleaning staff and others.

Eating puffer fish causes muscle paralysis including the heart and lungs. It can also start with severe stomach upsets and cramps, however, there's not usually any in between. If you eat the contaminated mean, you're dead. Also, probably unlikely to for sale in Chiang Mai albeit once it was found on a market stall in some off beat Thai city a few years ago.

Other possibilities are a heavy dose of pesticides, many of which are odourless these days or some other chemicals such as the ones used for lethal injections. However, cyanide remains the easiest to buy.

It's also always possible that the latest deaths are related to those in Phi Phi two years ago ie. the same killers, if we consider murder as an option. This could've been a test sample by a terrorist group or an evil government.

[roamer]

These deaths are very likely caused by cyanide.

Eating puffer fish causes muscle paralysis including the heart and lungs. It can also start with severe stomach upsets and cramps, however, there's not usually any in between. If you eat the contaminated mean, you're dead. Also, probably unlikely to for sale in Chiang Mai albeit once it was found on a market stall in some off beat Thai city a few years ago.

Other possibilities are a heavy dose of pesticides, many of which are odourless these days or some other chemicals such as the ones used for lethal injections. However, cyanide remains the easiest to buy.

So much wrong with this post I don't know where to start, but lets start with the puffer fish,

Accid Emerg Med 1995;12:214-215 doi:10.1136/emj.12.3.214

* Research Article

Puffer fish poisoning.

1. F L Lau,

2. C K Wong,

3. S H Yip

+ Author Affiliations

1.

Accident and Emergency Department, Queen Elizabeth Hospital, Hong Kong.

Abstract

Seven Vietnamese boat-people in Tai A Chau Detention Centre in Hong Kong caught, barbecued and ate a puffer fish. After 2 h, two of them developed severe symptoms of numbness and vomiting, while the remaining five subjects developed symptoms about 18 h later. They were all transferred to Queen Elizabeth Hospital. One patient died, and the others made an uneventful recovery.

Elsewhere if you do your research you will find that the fatality rates average around 6-15% and not as you state "If you eat the contaminated mean, you're dead."

Quincy must be turning in his grave.

[elcent]

just saved screenshots for evidence from the link I posted above. The site's domain name seems to be

Registry Status: clientDeleteProhibited

Registry Status: clientRenewProhibited

Registry Status: clientTransferProhibited

Registry Status: clientUpdateProhibited

.. it's maybe logged by the host., the site can't be updated or deleted at registrar of the domain. The website owner can still login to his website account and edit. - as far as I understand it.

Edited March 8, 2011 by elcent

[forsoraya]

On January 10th 2011, a very close friend of mine Soraya Vorster also passed away in Chiang Mai under very similar circumstances. I feel it is important to include her as well so get a more complete understanding of what is happening.

Thank you,

[Colabamumbai]

Nothing in life is a coincidence. We write off chance meetings as coincidence. Things are meant to happen and there is a reason for everything, good or bad.

[BuckarooBanzai]

Nothing in life is a coincidence. We write off chance meetings as coincidence. Things are meant to happen and there is a reason for everything, good or bad.

Let's hope there are no more non-coincidences in the future. I would like to know from actuarial tables or something similar what the probability of what has taken place is. Has to be an astronomically small chance.