White Ants In Bricks

[THAIPHUKET]

I pose the question on this forum because it is likely that more people here have seen similar problems than posters in the e.g = do-it-your-self subforum.

It can happen to any house, rented, bought or self built.

We live in a gorgeous 30 year old house. I was told the walls consist of an inner concrete shell , the outer shell are clay bricks.

2 months ago termites were found and poisoned. Also nests of small black bees with kilos of honey where detected between the 2 shells and taken out, areas gasified. Bricks were replaced where nests had been. As good as possible each and every small hole in the bricks was sealed off. Bricks painted with thick color.

Now, using a toothpick to probe small holes in the bricks white ants ( or termites??) were found. That's what you get from being too pickey :-)

The builder who did above mentioned job said, he cannot guarantee and right he was.

His initial suggestion was to take all bricks down and built a new outer shell.

The house is worth it. Only thing I dread is the noise and dirt for 6 weeks or so.

Any suggestions?

[trogers]

After building a new outer wall, poison the soil two feet wide around the house.

[THAIPHUKET]

so no alternative to pulling down the outer wall?

So far the bugs don't bother me, the renter, I could wait. Wait until it is more convenient for me to vacate the house for six weeks. Will definetelly go back into it.

For my understanding what do white ants do/destroy and how quickly should be acted.

What's the risk?

How to tell the difference between termites and white ants, is it really black and white?

[transam]

so no alternative to pulling down the outer wall?

So far the bugs don't bother me, the renter, I could wait. Wait until it is more convenient for me to vacate the house for six weeks. Will definetelly go back into it.

For my understanding what do white ants do/destroy and how quickly should be acted.

What's the risk?

How to tell the difference between termites and white ants, is it really black and white?

I thought white ants were tree/wood destroyers.

[doglover]

White ants are termites. Termites eat wood and like to make homes in the walls (with cavities) and subfloors of concrete homes. If you have any structural wood (as in roof rafters) the nuisance could become a huge problem in a hurry. Check any wooden furniture or cabinetry for damage (even cheap furniture built from MDF board). If you find any holes (with dirt tunnels leading out of them) you could spray in some termite killer from a can purchased at many local stores and fill up the hole with caulking for temporary fix. But before tearing down the exterior wall or something else as drastic, try to find where you can buy a 'termite baiting kit'. It is filled with some poisoned wood that the termites will bring back to their nest and with any luck the queen will eat it and the colony will collapse. If you can't kill the queen this way you have issues as they can live for 50 years. If this DIY solution doesn't work call in some termite extermitors (who are overpriced) to deal with the situation.

Edited March 11, 2011 by doglover

[doglover]

My reply was just to get you started. I think your request for info would do much better in the DYI forum. There are people there that could give you a better response than I.

[metisdead]

Moved to the Do it yourself housing forum.

[Monkeypants]

In the past I have used salt to move them on.

The termites do not like salty soil.

As already said they used to live under the concrete base of our house in some parts, after applying salt to the area and then watering so that the salt dissolves and finds its way into the termites nest, they move on.

[ETC]

White ants are termites. Termites eat wood and like to make homes in the walls (with cavities) and subfloors of concrete homes. If you have any structural wood (as in roof rafters) the nuisance could become a huge problem in a hurry. Check any wooden furniture or cabinetry for damage (even cheap furniture built from MDF board). If you find any holes (with dirt tunnels leading out of them) you could spray in some termite killer from a can purchased at many local stores and fill up the hole with caulking for temporary fix. But before tearing down the exterior wall or something else as drastic, try to find where you can buy a 'termite baiting kit'. It is filled with some poisoned wood that the termites will bring back to their nest and with any luck the queen will eat it and the colony will collapse. If you can't kill the queen this way you have issues as they can live for 50 years. If this DIY solution doesn't work call in some termite extermitors (who are overpriced) to deal with the situation.

For those that are interested, Subterrainian termites ( create mud tubes to live in because they can not survive in an open environment and they also grow fungaie in those tubes that are also part of their diet) do not eat wood per-say, they eat the cellulose wood rings only, and taking poison wood back to the nest may not solve your problem, as the Queen does not feed herself. One subterrainian termite colony can be deep underground and be servicing three houses at the same time through their mud tunnels. Causing termites to back up from one area will only force them to attack a different area. Dampwood termites require damp wood to survive, and removing the dampwood will generally solve that problem. Formosoa termites is a whole different issue and they can reduce a home to rubble in no time flat and tent fumigation is the best erradication procedure for them. I speak from experience, as I owned and operated an exterminating company for a number of years and as "doglover" stated, the eradication procedure is expensive, but to properly eradicate a subterrainian problem is rather labor and product intensive. Out of sight does not equal erradication.

[doglover]

Identifying Termite Species

Worker and nymph termites have few physical differences between species. Therefore, experts primarily use soldiers and termite reproductives (typically alates or swarmers) to identify which termite species may be infesting a home."

Well aren't you lucky to have ETC at the table. So don't do what I did initially and spray some chemicals in the holes they are using to invade as first step. First put your camera on the macro (close up) setting and try to get some real close up shots of the above mentioned and post the pics here. I am sure ETC could identify the species from that and then you could make a proper game plan.

[ETC]

Identifying Termite Species

Worker and nymph termites have few physical differences between species. Therefore, experts primarily use soldiers and termite reproductives (typically alates or swarmers) to identify which termite species may be infesting a home."

Well aren't you lucky to have ETC at the table. So don't do what I did initially and spray some chemicals in the holes they are using to invade as first step. First put your camera on the macro (close up) setting and try to get some real close up shots of the above mentioned and post the pics here. I am sure ETC could identify the species from that and then you could make a proper game plan.

You are right doglover, I could identify them, but I do not think that is necessary, because if there are mud tubes (made from there feces and saliva) they are most likely subterrainin termites, but for those that do not know, moisture ants (sometimes referred to as sugar ants etc.) will sometimes make mud tubes too. Using special nematodes to exterminate the subterrainian termite colonies is the cheapest,, most effective, and most environmental friendly procedure out there, but conditions have to be right for the nematodes. Nematodes will not work in dry earth. It is very interesting how the nematodes kill the termites and how easily they are passed from one to the other and the Queen as they feed her. The Queen is nothing more then a termite laying machine that does no manual labor ouside giving birth, including feeding herself. Just as a side note, carpenter ants feed on them for there protein content and will litterly make a break in one of their mud tubes and eat the soldier termites as they appear to protect the colony.They are no match for the carpenter ants however. Hope I haven't bored anyone with this but entomology is a very interesting field.

[ETC]

In the past I have used salt to move them on.

The termites do not like salty soil.

As already said they used to live under the concrete base of our house in some parts, after applying salt to the area and then watering so that the salt dissolves and finds its way into the termites nest, they move on.

Have to confess Monkeypants that I have never used the salt saturation method, but I can see where that might deter them from the saturated area as they are very protective of the colonies safety. I may look at the termite problem from a different perspective, as I stress eradication versus control.

[THAIPHUKET]

Very enlightening discourse.

Assume I use the salt method what does that imply in practice? Soaking to what level,how went for how long, dilution, how to make sure each possible place of nesting is caught? Inside and outside the house? How do you do it??

Also, if termites migrate, how far would they travel? Next house is some 30 m away.

.

[ETC]

Very enlightening discourse.

Assume I use the salt method what does that imply in practice? Soaking to what level,how went for how long, dilution, how to make sure each possible place of nesting is caught? Inside and outside the house? How do you do it??

Also, if termites migrate, how far would they travel? Next house is some 30 m away.

.

I would think common sense plays a part in all this, but documented cases have mud tubes surpassing 30 m. In one case the tubes radiated out from the main colony attached to sewar pipes and were traced to a house 20 yards (18+ meters) away. In another case active mud tubes were found in a 10 story high rise building. The tubes went from ground up 3 floors, accross the 3rd floor subfloor and down to ground on the other side of the building. I venture to guess that the main colony was a very old colony. I have seen basement walls covered with a huge blanket of mud tubes that made the poorly poured concrete wall one giant living area or a jumping off place for swarming (elate formes ) of reproductives. That reminds me that when you see a lot of broken off swarmer wings they will all be the same length (isopetera) and rounded on the ends, where-as swarmer ant wings (hymenoptera) have 2 long wings and 2 shorter wings and rather pointed on the ends.

My final thoughts is if you want to keep them out of your home, you have to directly kill the queen and colony, or setup a kill barrier that they cannot find a safe entry into your home. Nobody said it would be easy. When doing control methods, a 6-inch trench should be done all the way around the structure and then a long hollow injection rod is used to reach the foundation footing and product is injected every 14-16 inches there and the 6 inch by 6 inch trench is saturated also. That same procedure is done on the inside of the foundation also with a shorter injection tool. Just from this you can see why exterminators charge so much, as there is a lot of labor and product involved. Also, all untreated wood touching the ground should be removed. I might also mention that termites have to go to ground every 24-48 hours for their survival. I might also mention that some Beagle dogs are trained to sniff out subterainian termites as the mud tunnels carry low levels of methane gas (CH4).

Edited March 14, 2011 by ETC

[ETC]

Very enlightening discourse.

Assume I use the salt method what does that imply in practice? Soaking to what level,how went for how long, dilution, how to make sure each possible place of nesting is caught? Inside and outside the house? How do you do it??

Also, if termites migrate, how far would they travel? Next house is some 30 m away.

.

Just a quick answer on how far they can migrate. After a termite colony has been in existence for 2-3 years the queen lays the reproductives (the winged kings and queens) and when light, temperature, and humidity is right they will swarm and can be carried long distances by the prevailing wind. They find a new place to start a colony and then the new queen lays the workers that start eating the cellulose rings of wood. Swarmer termites have a 1/1000 of a chance of survival. Termites account for more structural damage then all floods an hurricanes combined. If you are living with termites in your structure, you can bet they are costing you money and the integrity of your structure. Hope all this helps a little.

Edited March 14, 2011 by ETC

[THAIPHUKET]

Scary, but scary is also our ignorance on these subjects, however, ignorance makes also for living more at ease.

I am only renting but had been contemplating to buy the house because it's such a beautiful house in a beautiful location, not easily to be found. I guess this thought has been put to rest.

Still I would like to live here as long as possible also make suggestions to the landlady, a very westernized woman.

What would you do if you were struck by this problem?

And secondly, is there any to find out if there are termites in case some wants to buy??

[ETC]

Scary, but scary is also our ignorance on these subjects, however, ignorance makes also for living more at ease.

I am only renting but had been contemplating to buy the house because it's such a beautiful house in a beautiful location, not easily to be found. I guess this thought has been put to rest.

Still I would like to live here as long as possible also make suggestions to the landlady, a very westernized woman.

What would you do if you were struck by this problem?

And secondly, is there any to find out if there are termites in case some wants to buy??

Sorry THAIPHUKET, I have not researched the availability of Exterminating companys in LOS, but if you can find one, they should be able to do a pest and structural inspection for you. Living in Thailand means sharing the land with many different types of wood destroying insects due to the warm climate and if you eliminated all the wood structures that had some form of wood destroying insects, I would venture to guess nobody would be purchasing houses. I would not let the presence of wood destroying pests deter me from purchasing a home, but I certainly would check the structure first and ask the owner to either have the problem eradicated, or at least subtract the cost of eradication from the sale price. Might be a bit hard to make locals understand why you would want to kill one of their food sources however.

I might add that crawling under structures in LOS is not my idea of fun either, with all the vipers around.

Edited March 15, 2011 by ETC

[THAIPHUKET]

A so-called exterminator comp comes regularly to the house,I mean they are young boys who spray a bit around and are gone and yet we got termites.

Perhaps I should ask you to come to Chiang Mai and consult.

[ETC]

A so-called exterminator comp comes regularly to the house,I mean they are young boys who spray a bit around and are gone and yet we got termites.

Perhaps I should ask you to come to Chiang Mai and consult.

Hi Thaiphuket!

Would gladly stop by but am still in the States selling off my farm and it will probably be 6 months yet before the wife and I will be returning to LOS.

Sounds like your pest service boys are like many State side pest companies, takes them longer to collect the money then it does to do the work.

Let's keep in touch and if you still want my help, the wife and I will drive up one day and we will see what we see. The cost would be free but a bottle of Leo would be called for and I will even bring the Leo :-)

Jim {etc}

Edited March 16, 2011 by ETC

[THAIPHUKET]

Done deal, Jim l!!