Thai Muslims

[makescents]

I've managed to get involved with a girl who is believer in Islam and although not completely ignorant of the religion, there have been little differences specific to Thailand that she has mentioned.

- don't celebrate Songkran

- no sinsod to be paid (the topic came up after I read a post on here and wanted to discuss it)

Other things that came up in conversation and I didn't know (but apply to most muslims):

- can't get tattoos

- don't own dogs

I've scanned Wikipedia articles but does anyone have any advice or experience?

[johnthompson]

I thought muslims werent allowed to have girlfriends/boyfriends or marry someone from another religion.

[makescents]

I thought muslims werent allowed to have girlfriends/boyfriends or marry someone from another religion.

Depends how strictly they interpret the religion. I have however spoken to her mother and she seems pretty liberal.

[Jdietz]

- You may be forced to convert at the wedding (just by repeating the words you become a muslim)

- They may want to cut your d*ck off (well at least snip it a bit)

Nothing to worry about, really

[gotlost]

The owning of dogs is BS. Spent many of year in Saudi Arabia and the own one hell of a lot of dogs. As for your gf you need to see her family and weight the response. If your gf says no then i would say terminate the relation ship.

[H2oDunc]

I thought muslims werent allowed to have girlfriends/boyfriends or marry someone from another religion.

Depends how strictly they interpret the religion. I have however spoken to her mother and she seems pretty liberal.

It's not the mother you need to be concerned about it's the father.

[makescents]

I thought muslims werent allowed to have girlfriends/boyfriends or marry someone from another religion.

Depends how strictly they interpret the religion. I have however spoken to her mother and she seems pretty liberal.

It's not the mother you need to be concerned about it's the father.

He's long gone.

As for the conversion, that would be a deal breaker for me. I'm a humanist and will be for the rest of my life.

The dogs thing isn't a big deal for me. I love the buggers but I wouldn't break up over not being allowed one.

Cheers for the responses guys.

[bifftastic]

No pork, lots of praying (prescribed times of the day I think) and, not only are you 'farang' but now you are kuffar farang too infidel, non-believer etc.

The qur'an is supposed to be the direct word of god, it's been translated into other languages but in order to follow the religion, you need to learn Arabic, as this was the prophet mohammed's language.

The laws by which people are supposed to live their lives, according to believers, are contained within it's pages. And there are, apparently, plenty of them!

There are,much like many other religions, various sects and off-shoots, some of which are; Shi'ite, Sunni and complete and utter nut nut. The Thai muslims are mainly Sunni http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunni (you've probably read that already )

Also, of note, I believe;

Islam disapproves of human or animal representation in a religious context. Qur'ans are never illustrated; the ultimate artistic expression is to be found in sacred calligraphy and illumination, such as in the magnificent 'carpet pages' of the royal Qur'ans.

However, the image of the Prophet's ascension to heaven is often depicted in religious Islamic painting, particularly in Persian manuscripts.

The afore-mentioned ascension was supposed to have been done on a winged horse.

The main reason for muslim groups or movements' desire for independence from other nation states is that they, usually, wish to be governed by Sharia Law which is the law of the Qur'an, open to interpretations such as whipping women for wearing trousers, cutting people's hands off for thieving (this eventually reduces re-offending behaviour!) and generally promotes peace and understanding

Good luck with it all, and i hope her brothers and or father don't kill you

[simon43]

The owning of dogs is BS...

Perhaps so in Saudi, but here in south Thailand, it's a definite no-no and all the better for it. I live in a small Muslim village just outside Ao Nang and the landlady of the house we rent told us very specifically that no dogs are allowed. Fine by me, since the lack of soi dogs is a blessing

Interestingly, a few of my western friends are married to Muslim women and their marriages seem much 'stronger' than some who have married non-Muslims

The requirement to have your tackle surgically manipulated can be resolved with a medical certificate, which can easily be obtained for a few baht.

No sinsot eh? Now that's interesting. Can any Thai Muslims on this board tell me what reasoning/religious ruling this is based on?

I'm getting the urge to offer an online dating/marriage service for westerners who seek Muslim wives (and that could mean more than 1 wife as well...)

Simon

[jazzbo]

Simon43 has it pretty well covered -- however in Thailand according to Section 1452 of the Civil Code of Thailand, a marriage cannot take place if either the man or the woman is already married to another person... however multiple unofficial wives or mia nois amongst wealthy Thai Islam men is common even among Members of Parliament ... in Indonesia having multiple legal wives is allowed.

If you marry a Thai Islam woman I would say it then becomes a function of how close you are to the family... Young Thai Islam women -- while respectful of their religion -- often want to get away from the strict conditions of their upbringing... and some Thai Islam women are some of the most gorgeous you would ever want to meet.

[sbk]

I too live in a small Muslim village and perhaps "island muslims" are more relaxed but I know a few who drink, a couple eat pork, and most don't pray at every prayer time during the day. most do follow Ramadan however.

Simon's right on the dogs, they don't touch dogs. (Considered unclean and considering what my dogs get into sometimes, I totally get it). A neighbor married a local Muslim woman and did undergo circumcision. Most of the Muslims in my village are hardworking people, very decent, very kind and very generous people. They generally have strong families and marriages and tbh, its the Buddhists that have multiple mia nois but I only know one Muslim guy who does.

[simon43]

BTW, my comment about multiple wives was somewhat tongue in cheek. My understanding of Islam is that if a man is legally married, he can take up to 3 additional wives where those women are widowed, and thus no longer have a 'protector'. So the man is acting as a defacto protector of these women whose husbands have predeceased them.

Perhaps someone more knowledgable than me can comment on this

Simon

[jazzbo]

Just to note that, before moving to Thailand, I spent extended periods of time in and around Palembang, South Sumatra, Indonesia, and that my only first-hand experience with the Islam population in Thailand is with those whose families are from the Minburi region of Bangkok Province.

[sbk]

OP is looking for legitimate information from people who know what they are talking about, not pointless troll posts. They have been deleted. Please do not repost.

[Xangsamhua]

I think most general things have been said, though a few a bit tongue-in-cheek. There are many different forms and levels of Islam and Muslims are diverse in their attitudes and practice. You would really need to know the family. I have heard of men converting for marriage purposes without being really serious about it and that being understood, but I don't know how acceptable that would be now.

The extensive Gallup survey of Muslim attitudes around the world, published as "Who Speaks for Islam?: What a Billion Muslims Really Think" by Esposito and Mogahed (2008), is helpful, as is Reza Aslan's "No god but God: The Origins, Evolution and Future of Islam" (2005).

[mstribling]

Excellent post.

[bina]

ok, checked with my thai muslem friend and her sister that live here in israel (she has others living overseas and in bangkok); she herself doesnt eat pork but will drink wine and beer; she married 1. jewish religious guy, now divorced but daughter by that marriage is jewish by descent and muslem by name and has recently married the father of her son, the father is budhist thai. the wedding was both muslem with full head covering etc to honour her side, and then a budhist village ceremony for her husband's side of the family ; 2. now with a budhist thai guy.... she also owns dogs but not in the house, just the yard.

ramadan- she just doesnt eat out, but doesn eat at home. here, most muslems dont eat until sunset but those that do eat, will eat quietly,, not in front of other. same as me on yom kippur. inside my house, we eat and those that fast, well, their choice not to touch the food.

seems to me that the thai muslems are easier going then many of the muslems i know here, and each family has its own decisions as to wha tthe girls wear (head covering, full thing, marriage etc).

as for the multiple wife thing: its a semitic thing not just muslem;

halacha law says that if a man has a wife whose sister is widowed, he must also marry her or take care of her, and she cant marry someone else. so ther eis a sort of ceremony that 'releases' the brother in law and the sister in law from this demand so she can remarry if she wants to. as far as other wives, only those from yemen were still legally able to keepp more then one (also those from kafkaz/caucasia)wife, but since religious law ahs also ruled that out.

among muslems, the beduins keep more then one wife but only if they can economically support the second household. three wives is for the rich. among arab non beduin muslems, havent met anyone with mor ethen one wife, but maybe a girlfriend on the side.

the man has to show the gold of course!! but not just at the wedding, at the engagement ceremony, and every main holiday too, including expensive dresses/suits/etc. at tleast thats what all the guys here tell us and complain about all the time (expenses), not to mention the house has to be built and furnished before the wedding is consumated (engagment is like a wedding that the man is responsible for the woman but still cannot consumate the marriage itself.)..

bina

israel

[PattayaParent]

BTW, my comment about multiple wives was somewhat tongue in cheek. My understanding of Islam is that if a man is legally married, he can take up to 3 additional wives where those women are widowed, and thus no longer have a 'protector'. So the man is acting as a defacto protector of these women whose husbands have predeceased them.

Perhaps someone more knowledgable than me can comment on this

Simon

The extra wives don't have to be widowed.

The Arab Muslims that I knew all insisted to marry virgins.

[sbk]

The Thai Muslims I know don't have much in common with Middle Eastern Muslims from what I can see. They have integrated into and often married into the local Buddhist community. Everyone attends weddings and funerals regardless of who it is or what religion they are because they are neighbors, friends and relatives. The Thai Muslim community I live in is very relaxed and easy going, some women cover their hair, some do not. I think that while they share the same faith as Middle Eastern Muslims, using them as a comparison or guide isn't going to get very far because, due to major cultural differences, they are a very different people despite the same religion.

As surprising as it may be to some, Muslims are just as diverse a people as Christians.

[bina]

one guy i work with is marrying his first cousin who lives in jordan (the family was split up in 1948), he is busy building a house in his village, and running back and forth dealing with visa and beuroacracy issues;

an other guy, from the second village (and slightly different culturally, but arab muslem -- differring from beduins, or druze who are arabic but not muslem) is still building his house, his wife to be is 16 from a family who, as he says it, 'does what the husband wants' (probably twisting his little finger to get him to do what she wants actually); they had the engagement ceremony, so he is responsible for all her economic needs but she still lives with parents until she is 18 and he finishes the entire house (probably in two years or so).

S. keeps dogs, in his yard, prefers full breed and white colour (huskies are very popular); A. dislikes dogs, and is also highly releigious. he is a math teacher and his twin brother is studying islam theology studies in jordan.... all the men and women muslem that i know here have as varying ways of dressing and observance as there are among the jews here, and i suppose the buddhists in thailand (and muslems in thailand) i.e. there is no one straight way, every family has its own ways and behaviors and creeds of what they are willing to accept from the outside. ive asked the girls here why some are in total cover, some just head cover, etc; and that is also what they say...

so i wouldnt worry so much. respect and honour her parents, follow, at least outwardly, the important points in dietary law and holiday behaviours if it is important to her, treat her right, but for sure sit down and discuss with her the children aspect cause that is usually when the problems arise, as there is usually pressure from the grandparents on both sides. we have many families (jewish and muslem) that in the house one or the other of the couple sets the tone as far as religioun is concerned and the other partner follows suit to "keep family harmony'. (shalom b'mishpaha). its an actual law (religious wise) that partners are to compromise in order not to disrupt family harmony, which is supposed to come before everything else.

bina

good luck

bina

israel

[PingManDan]

If you start going to the Mosque or convert, you have to be circumsised if not already

[Naam]

deleted

[Naam]

If you start going to the Mosque or convert, you have to be circumsised if not already

incorrect statement!

[makescents]

I'd like to thank you all for your constructive input. I've invested in a couple of the books mentioned and a Quran.

There seems to be only slight differences between dating a Muslim girl and a Buddhist girl, respect of parents seems to be a rule general rule, rather than restricted to religion.

I wouldn't mind visiting Mosques or partaking in religious ceremonies, although I'd draw the line at circumcision.