Meltdown Likely Under Way At Japan Nuclear Reactor

[James3212]

why dont they recycle the water and use it again? =\

[James3212]

Sorry too late to edit but i want to ask does anyone have any information if they checked for remainders of plutonium in that seawater?

[Crushdepth]

A news report from another source says Japan will dump over 10,000 tonnes of low-level radioactive water into the Pacific but It wont do any damage.

It's "low level" now, that they want to dump it in the sea? My bullshit meter is ticking off the scale.

[atsiii]

A news report from another source says Japan will dump over 10,000 tonnes of low-level radioactive water into the Pacific but It wont do any damage.

It's "low level" now, that they want to dump it in the sea? My bullshit meter is ticking off the scale.

AGREED!

[atsiii]

Sorry too late to edit but i want to ask does anyone have any information if they checked for remainders of plutonium in that seawater?

I have not seen any other measures or analysis of the water that is being released. Most of it is coming from their own onsite waste disposal facility (10,000 tons), so they must know its radioactive composition--but I have not seen it released. The other 1500 tons is from the damaged site and is probably more contaminated.

Supposedly the water being released is not the highly radioactive water that has come in contact with the melted fuel rods, for which they are releasing this water to make room for. But some of that highly radioactive water is already confirmed to be leaking into the ocean--and it would almost certainly contain some level of plutonium. That's because plutonium is a normal by-product of the fission reaction in all three reactors (even the two reactors that were not using MOX rods). For this reason, there will also be some plutonium present in all four of the cooling pools. That's why when they first found plutonium present in the soil samples, they still didn't know which reactor or pool it was coming from.

Edited April 5, 2011 by atsiii

[atsiii]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-05/tepco-dumping-toxic-water-angers-fishermen-stock-plunges.html

The United Nations nuclear watchdog said the partial meltdown at the station was a result of “errors” from the time a March 11 quake and tsunami knocked out pumps used to cool reactors and spent fuel. “Such an accident should not have happened,” Denis Flory, deputy director general of theInternational Atomic Energy Agency, said at a press briefing in Vienna yesterday. “Something was not done from the very beginning.”

What kind of BS is this? “Such an accident should not have happened,” "Something was not done from the very beginning.”

If you know something was done wrong, then why don't you come out and say it?

Good grief...

[jombom]

A news report from another source says Japan will dump over 10,000 tonnes of low-level radioactive water into the Pacific but It wont do any damage.

It's "low level" now, that they want to dump it in the sea? My bullshit meter is ticking off the scale.

AGREED!

Agree also. It is extremely annoying. Why is the waste not being run through a demin plant, to take out the impurities?? The Brits were doing this for years at Sellafield.

Where are the UN resolutions ?? The rest of the planet is entitled to ask about the health of the ocean, not to mention the food chain, which many people in Asia depend on.

[StreetCowboy]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-05/tepco-dumping-toxic-water-angers-fishermen-stock-plunges.html

The United Nations nuclear watchdog said the partial meltdown at the station was a result of "errors" from the time a March 11 quake and tsunami knocked out pumps used to cool reactors and spent fuel. "Such an accident should not have happened," Denis Flory, deputy director general of theInternational Atomic Energy Agency, said at a press briefing in Vienna yesterday. "Something was not done from the very beginning."

What kind of BS is this? "Such an accident should not have happened," "Something was not done from the very beginning."

If you know something was done wrong, then why don't you come out and say it?

Good grief...

I think it was a mistake t have such a big tsunami. In retrospect, a lot of the problems stemmed from that...

Unlike the accidents that you or I have, there were no 'near misses' that could have served as 'wake-up' calls.

It would be an interesting academic exercise to review the events to date, and determine if the risk assessments that supported the design of the plants were accurate, and whether the risk remains tolerable, or whether some change in design criteria is required. There seems little point in bleating about the consequences. Perhaps a more constructive outlook is required.

Perhaps we should focus on how we can do our own jobs properly, rather than whinging that other people could not protect against a 'beyond design basis' 'act of God'.

How much more would you be willing to pay for your electricity to avoid such an incident happening again?

How much would you be willing to pay for air travel, to avert global warming?

Is it really important to you, or just worth a few minutes' whinging on the internet?

SC

[JulianLS]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-05/tepco-dumping-toxic-water-angers-fishermen-stock-plunges.html

The United Nations nuclear watchdog said the partial meltdown at the station was a result of "errors" from the time a March 11 quake and tsunami knocked out pumps used to cool reactors and spent fuel. "Such an accident should not have happened," Denis Flory, deputy director general of theInternational Atomic Energy Agency, said at a press briefing in Vienna yesterday. "Something was not done from the very beginning."

What kind of BS is this? "Such an accident should not have happened," "Something was not done from the very beginning."

If you know something was done wrong, then why don't you come out and say it?

Good grief...

I think it was a mistake t have such a big tsunami. In retrospect, a lot of the problems stemmed from that...

Unlike the accidents that you or I have, there were no 'near misses' that could have served as 'wake-up' calls.

It would be an interesting academic exercise to review the events to date, and determine if the risk assessments that supported the design of the plants were accurate, and whether the risk remains tolerable, or whether some change in design criteria is required. There seems little point in bleating about the consequences. Perhaps a more constructive outlook is required.

Perhaps we should focus on how we can do our own jobs properly, rather than whinging that other people could not protect against a 'beyond design basis' 'act of God'.

How much more would you be willing to pay for your electricity to avoid such an incident happening again?

How much would you be willing to pay for air travel, to avert global warming?

Is it really important to you, or just worth a few minutes' whinging on the internet?

SC

I am not sure I agree with your 'beyond design spec act of god, SC. The earthquake and tsunami may not be controllable, but the design spec certainly was. And as for near misses. There are plenty of examples of >8 magnitude earthquakes recorded in Japan. And plenty of examples of tsunamis over 5m. The data is available now and was available when the plant was built. So it's pretty clear the design spec was inadequate to survive the next 100 years or so (the minimum expected life of the active AND decommissioned plant). The earthquake cycle in Japan is roughly every 70 years, this one is a bit late actually.... it was expected in the 1990's.

As for the "errors" mentioned in the previous posting, yes, it would be interesting to hear the hypothesis. It is clear that most of the issues being faced now come from the explosions that happened in the days afterwards (in the outer containments of 1, 3 and 4 and in the suppression pool of 2). My guess is the latter is at least in part responsible for the highly radioactive water knocking around the site now. Were they slow to start injecting water into the cores to keep the rods covered? Were they too quick to vent, thereby causing the hydrogen explosions? I don't know, there were next to no facts coming out of Tepco at that time.

I am sure they guys on the ground were doing their best, in horrendous circumstances. But in typical Japanese fashion, they were slow to turn to help from outside of tepco. And the govt was slow step in, and slow to accept help from overseas.

In the early days, the tepco reports were pretty much in denial about the possibility of meltdown occurring or the possibility of containment breaches. This denial may be partly attributable to shock and to the enormity of the consequences if it were true. It is interesting to see the same denial in plant operators at Chernobyl. The plant manager persistently maintained that the core was intact after the explosion..... despite the fact that he could see parts of graphite moderator blocks scattered around the site..... and that the reactor building was totally missing!

[Crushdepth]

Perhaps we should focus on how we can do our own jobs properly, rather than whinging that other people could not protect against a 'beyond design basis' 'act of God'.

I don't think 'beyond design basis' is an acceptable excuse when building a nuclear power plant in a notoriously earthquake/tsunami prone area. The design of this plant is what I would call a miserable failure.

This company has a history of cover ups and faking data (why are they still operating this plant?), and even the Japanese government is complaining about the lack of information being provided. I think public scrutiny is essential.

[James3212]

Sorry too late to edit but i want to ask does anyone have any information if they checked for remainders of plutonium in that seawater?

I have not seen any other measures or analysis of the water that is being released. Most of it is coming from their own onsite waste disposal facility (10,000 tons), so they must know its radioactive composition--but I have not seen it released. The other 1500 tons is from the damaged site and is probably more contaminated.

Supposedly the water being released is not the highly radioactive water that has come in contact with the melted fuel rods, for which they are releasing this water to make room for. But some of that highly radioactive water is already confirmed to be leaking into the ocean--and it would almost certainly contain some level of plutonium. That's because plutonium is a normal by-product of the fission reaction in all three reactors (even the two reactors that were not using MOX rods). For this reason, there will also be some plutonium present in all four of the cooling pools. That's why when they first found plutonium present in the soil samples, they still didn't know which reactor or pool it was coming from.

Thanks for explaining this... I thought so too.. Now what i dont realize is why they dont get the water in those oil tanker ships and store the water there temporarily until they decide what to do with it... As far as i know they can carry up to 500 000 000 liters or 500 000 tons of water...

We do not yet know if the plutonium and radioactive cesium will influence the sealife in some way but this is a bad way to find out i think... As someone said there are purifying plants so they could use that. Also i do not know why they don't recycle the water and use it again when it goes out since its still supposed to be cool once its out... Presumably because of the particles but if the particles are bad then why dump them into the ocean?

And i dont think we can say how quickly it will dilute in the water.... most probably the part around japan will have higher concentration of radioactivity for quite some time so the fishes there might be more in danger... and im not sure but it looks to me as if this might affect the whole world... Sure it will be diluted but this is such an irresponsible way of handling this crisis i think... But what else can we do to make them stop doing this? I realize I'm just typing away but some things just seem not well thought out... even though they are experts and stuff it seems that they are contaminating the parts of the earth slowly and not caring much for it... I guess under the sea and specially close to Japanese sea is not the best place to be right now...

Edited April 5, 2011 by James3212

[elcent]

Lets recall the fact that our planet didn't have any natural radiation but now we have various kinds of very dangerous substances which are man-made. In your drinking milk you can find traces of plutonium the most dangerous poison known to humankind. With every leakage, nuclear bomb(testing) nuclear power plant accident the substances increase and some(the more dangerous like plutonium, stronium are here to stay for millions of years.

Siemens today questions the nuclear industry. - these are the headlines in todays Der Spiegel - and even thinks a total exit of nuclear power plants is possible.

Other Germans and former prominent nuclear power supporters have changed to anti now.

The Irritable Prime Minister

Japanese Leader Shunned for Western-Style Crisis Management

By Wieland Wagner

Photo Gallery: 5 Photos AFPJapanese Prime Minister Naoto Kan has adopted a Western approach to solving his country's deep crisis. In doing so, he is violating Japan's traditional rules -- and putting his credibility on the line http://www.spiegel.d...,754861,00.html

Japans media is under scrutinity for their soft stance and crisis response. ... just another headline

In meanwhile one case of the often deadly(when without medical treatment) was confirmed. - Tsutsugamushi-Fever - another headline

Edited April 5, 2011 by elcent

[elcent]

SPIEGEL Interview with Energy Commissioner Oettinger

'Fukushima Has Made Me Start to Doubt'

AFP

A map showing nuclear power plants in Europe used during an anti-nuclear power protest in Madrid in late March.

Energy Commissioner Günther Oettinger used to be a firm supporter of nuclear energy. But now he's not so sure. SPIEGEL spoke with Oettinger about Chancellor Angela Merkel's about-face on nuclear energy, what it means for the European energy supply and whether other EU countries will follow suit. http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,754888,00.html

[elcent]

TEPCO starts injecting agent to stop leakage

The operator of the crisis-hit Fukushima nuclear plant has injected a hardening agent beneath a leaking concrete pit in a bid to stem the flow of highly radioactive water into the sea.

Tokyo Electric Power Company started infusing liquid glass into gravel below the pit near the Number 2 reactor at 3 PM on Tuesday.

TEPCO spotted a crack in the pit 3 days ago while trying to find the source of the leakage of contaminated water into the Pacific Ocean.

Since then, the utility has tried in vein to seal the pit with concrete, or to plug piping leading into it with a polymer mixture.

A test using a dye agent showed the possibility that the radioactive water is leaking from a cracked pipe, and then seeping through gravel into the concrete pit.

TEPCO is planning to board up the breached sections of an offshore dike to prevent the tainted water from spreading further into the sea.

It is also considering building underwater silt barriers at 3 locations, including one near a water intake for the Number 2 reactor.

Tuesday, April 05, 2011 18:57 +0900 (JST)

> pure poison for the ocean and life as a whole again ...

High level of cesium detected in sand lances

Small fish caught in waters off the coast of Ibaraki have been found to contain radioactive cesium above the legal limit.

Ibaraki is south of Fukushima prefecture, where the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is located.

Ibaraki Prefecture says 526 becquerels of radioactive cesium was detected in one kilogram of sand lances. The acceptable limit is 500 becquerels. It is the first time that higher-than-permitted levels of radioactive cesium have been found in fish.

All local fishery cooperatives in the prefecture have agreed to suspend sand lance fishing at the request of the prefectural government.

Tuesday, April 05, 2011 18:58 +0900 (JST)

... sure we'll get devastating news soon

7.5 mil. times legal limit of iodine in sea

The operator of the stricken Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant says 7.5 million times the legal limit of radioactive iodine 131 has been detected from samples of seawater near the plant.

Tokyo Electric Power Company, or TEPCO, found on Saturday that contaminated water was leaking from a cracked concrete pit near the No. 2 reactor.

Experts say this makes it clear that highly radioactive substances from the reactor are flowing into the sea, and that the leak must be stopped as soon as possible.

The utility firm said samples of water taken near the water intake of the No. 2 reactor at 11:50 AM Saturday contained 300,000 becquerels of iodine 131 per cubic centimeter, or 7.5 million times the legal limit.

TEPCO said the figure had dropped to 200,000 becquerels per cubic centimeter, or 5 million times the legal limit, in samples taken at 9:00 AM Monday.

Monday's sample also contained 1.1 million times the legal limit of cesium 137, which has a half life of 30 years.

On March 27th, 13-million becquerels of iodine 131 per cubic centimeter of water were detected in the turbine building of the No. 2 reactor. On Wednesday, water was found accumulated in a tunnel near the turbine building and the radiation level on the surface was measured at more than 1,000 millisieverts per hour.

The Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency says it believes the radioactive substances are from nuclear fuel which leaked from the reactor into the water and flowed out.

Tuesday, April 05, 2011 15:10 +0900 (JST)

what about plutonium and other substances? Edited April 5, 2011 by elcent

[elcent]

TEPCO shares fall to record low

Shares of the Tokyo Electric Power Company hit a new low on Tuesday, due to major trouble at the firm's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

TEPCO stocks were heavily sold immediately after the opening of the Tokyo Stock Exchange.

The firm's share price fell by the daily trading limit of 80 yen to close at 362 yen, or about 4.3 dollars -- the lowest since the firm went public in 1951.

The price has fallen to one sixth of the figure before the March 11th earthquake. TEPCO's net market value fell from 3.4 trillion yen, or about 40 billion dollars, to 580-billion yen, or 6.9 billion dollars.

TEPCO Vice President Takashi Fujimoto said the firm accepts the figures as a severe assessment by the market.

Tuesday, April 05, 2011 17:44 +0900 (JST)

Hope it disappears completely and that all the others will follow suit. Enough is enough ...

Sooth-sayers will disappear then as well.

[StreetCowboy]

Lets recall the fact that our planet didn't have any natural radiation but now we have various kinds of very dangerous substances which are man-made....

Further to this spectacular piece of nonsense, you may be interested to read the section on cancer risk to miners in this article

http://www.ccnr.org/uranium_deadliest.html#die

which appears to imply that radiation is as natural as - as rocks in the ground, for example.

or about the naturally occurring nuclear reactors of 2 billion years ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_nuclear_fission_reactor

We really should be careful about posting misinformation on the web - the recent April Fool spoof news article that received so much attention should serve as a wake-up call to us all.

Anyway, far be it from me to interrupt the slagging off of Japanese, or technologists; I am sure the assembled company regularly deal successfully with once-in-thousand year events, and natural catastrophes

SC

[JetsetBkk]

what about plutonium and other substances?

Already reported:

PLUTONIUM FOUND AT FUKUSHIMA!!

Probably from old weapons tests thousands of miles away, but hey, let's wet ourselves anyway

There has also been heavy reporting in the press regarding the discovery of very small amounts of plutonium isotopes at the site...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/31/fukushima_panic_breaks_completely_free_of_facts/page2.html

[James3212]

Lets recall the fact that our planet didn't have any natural radiation but now we have various kinds of very dangerous substances which are man-made. In your drinking milk you can find traces of plutonium the most dangerous poison known to humankind. With every leakage, nuclear bomb(testing) nuclear power plant accident the substances increase and some(the more dangerous like plutonium, stronium are here to stay for millions of years.

Siemens today questions the nuclear industry. - these are the headlines in todays Der Spiegel - and even thinks a total exit of nuclear power plants is possible.

Other Germans and former prominent nuclear power supporters have changed to anti now.

Elcent i think that there are many kinds of natural radiation that are occurring right now like from radon and such gasses, uranium etc, and people are constantly under radiation influence but what is scary is that the materials that are produced right now were not available in the nature before, airborne or at these levels and they are being released now and releasing extra radiation

However you are right about the milk and other vegetables and products, the levels now are higher and that shouldn't happen and there are some elements that were not present in milk and vegetables before...

Anyways the danger of plutonium is its possibility of staying permanently in the bodies as it apparently can be absorbed and then it could irradiate cells of humans and animals constantly once its ingested... There should be some plutonium removal surgery available in the future i hope or procedure or anything...

Either way we shouldn't release these deadly particles into atmosphere. And I really like the way Germans are rethinking all of the nuclear plants now and hopefully soon at least Europe will be clean from nuclear plants... However this should hopefully eventually become the world-wide practice to replace nuclear with better and cleaner technologies. It is absolutely insane to run these plants that can can cause so much damage to the environment i think especially without adequate protection... Also in the case of war or something if some country hits the nuclear plants that would cause havoc all around... Just guessing but lets say North Korea or some other country launches some missiles from some place in the sea for example and it hits the nuclear power plant anywhere.... Hmm I guess it would be similar to using big nuclear weapons anyways just without the nuclear explosion... Anyways imo it is good to see lots of people turning anti nuclear and looking for better alternatives even if they are more expensive at the moment and this also pushes the technology development for the alternatives so they will become even better and cheaper and i think ultimately we will have much cheaper and cleaner energy than what we have now...

Edited April 5, 2011 by James3212

[elcent]

Lets recall the fact that our planet didn't have any natural radiation but now we have various kinds of very dangerous substances which are man-made....

Further to this spectacular piece of nonsense, you may be interested to read the section on cancer risk to miners in this article

http://www.ccnr.org/...dliest.html#die

which appears to imply that radiation is as natural as - as rocks in the ground, for example.

or about the naturally occurring nuclear reactors of 2 billion years ago

http://en.wikipedia....fission_reactor

We really should be careful about posting misinformation on the web - the recent April Fool spoof news article that received so much attention should serve as a wake-up call to us all.

Anyway, far be it from me to interrupt the slagging off of Japanese, or technologists; I am sure the assembled company regularly deal successfully with once-in-thousand year events, and natural catastrophes

SC

which brings us back to aliens again from the same wiki link kinda conclusion, lol

In the science fiction novel Bridge of Ashes, by Roger Zelazny, the Gabon mine was stated to have been created by an alien race for the purpose of causing mutations which ultimately led to the existence of humans. In the novel Camelot 30K by Robert L. Forward, natural nuclear fission (as opposed to solar power) is revealed as the power source of the biosphere of a trans-Neptunian dwarf planet. A natural nuclear fission reactor is also an important plot device in the science fiction novel Manifold: Space by Stephen Baxter. In 1956, a natural nuclear fission reactor figured in Tom Swift in the Caves of Nuclear Fire by Victor Appleton II (house pseudonym for Thomas Mulvey).

[elcent]

Lets recall the fact that our planet didn't have any natural radiation but now we have various kinds of very dangerous substances which are man-made. In your drinking milk you can find traces of plutonium the most dangerous poison known to humankind. With every leakage, nuclear bomb(testing) nuclear power plant accident the substances increase and some(the more dangerous like plutonium, stronium are here to stay for millions of years.

Siemens today questions the nuclear industry. - these are the headlines in todays Der Spiegel - and even thinks a total exit of nuclear power plants is possible.

Other Germans and former prominent nuclear power supporters have changed to anti now.

Elcent i think that there are many kinds of natural radiation that are occurring right now like from radon and such gasses, uranium etc, and people are constantly under radiation influence but what is scary is that the materials that are produced right now were not available in the nature before, airborne or at these levels and they are being released now and releasing extra radiation

However you are right about the milk and other vegetables and products, the levels now are higher and that shouldn't happen and there are some elements that were not present in milk and vegetables before...

Anyways the danger of plutonium is its possibility of staying permanently in the bodies as it apparently can be absorbed and then it could irradiate cells of humans and animals constantly once its ingested... There should be some plutonium removal surgery available in the future i hope or procedure or anything...

Either way we shouldn't release these deadly particles into atmosphere. And I really like the way Germans are rethinking all of the nuclear plants now and hopefully soon at least Europe will be clean from nuclear plants... However this should hopefully eventually become the world-wide practice to replace nuclear with better and cleaner technologies. It is absolutely insane to run these plants that can can cause so much damage to the environment i think especially without adequate protection... Also in the case of war or something if some country hits the nuclear plants that would cause havoc all around... Just guessing but lets say North Korea or some other country launches some missiles from some place in the sea for example and it hits the nuclear power plant anywhere.... Hmm I guess it would be similar to using big nuclear weapons anyways just without the nuclear explosion... Anyways imo it is good to see lots of people turning anti nuclear and looking for better alternatives even if they are more expensive at the moment and this also pushes the technology development for the alternatives so they will become even better and cheaper and i think ultimately we will have much cheaper and cleaner energy than what we have now...

That's it all about, we need to get out of this.

I second that and better yesterday than today.

[slapout]

Just a short story on radiation and natural?? accumulation.

A radioactive source was lost from a oil field service vehicle, somewhere between their last field job and return to base. (Cesium I might add), now its supposed to be in a container which is locked with marking, phone number, reward offer, etc for anyone who would happen upon it. It was determined that someone forgot to lock the shield, which was secured to the truck, thus a hot unshielded source was out there some where.

The survey truck was sent back along its same return route with a gamma ray/neutron detector device being continually monitored and recorded for presentation to government powers if needed/requested. Driving along the route, through several towns/cities, the crew noticed very high reading passing thru the towns at various alley ways. Upon inspection, they found that they were picking up high reading from the large trash receptacles which require a lift truck to pick up.

The good news was they found the source on the location they had been working at, buried in the mud from when they backed over it. The bad news for them, is they were fired. The gamma ray reading they picked up from dumpsters were 2 to 6 times over normal background in that area. A couple gave a similar reading as when we placed a calibration pill (radium) on the tools to standardize the tools.

[metisdead]

Another reminder:

Reminder:

Thai Visa is an English language forum, English is the only acceptable language, except within the Thai language forum, where of course using Thai is allowed.

Post links to English language sites, thanks.

[elcent]

S Korea criticizes release of radioactive water

South Korea has expressed concern over Japan's release of contaminated water into the sea from the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

The Japanese government approved the action by the plant operator. Tokyo Electric Power Company began dumping wastewater containing radioactive materials, including iodine-131 with a level of about 100 times the legal limit, into the sea to stabilize the crippled plant on Monday.

South Korea's Foreign Affairs and Trade Ministry conveyed its concern to Japan's Foreign Ministry on Monday evening through its embassy in Tokyo.

The South Korean ministry pointed out that release of contaminated wastewater could be a violation of international law.

South Koreas have been increasingly worried about radioactive contamination of tap water and farm products. Minute amounts of radioactive material have been detected in the country after the trouble of the nuclear plant.

There's growing criticism in the country that Japan failed to notify neighboring countries in advance about the release of contaminated water.

Tuesday, April 05, 2011 16:02 +0900 (JST)

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/05_28.html

That's what it is, a violation of international laws and a very grave one.

[James3212]

S Korea criticizes release of radioactive water

South Korea has expressed concern over Japan's release of contaminated water into the sea from the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

The Japanese government approved the action by the plant operator. Tokyo Electric Power Company began dumping wastewater containing radioactive materials, including iodine-131 with a level of about 100 times the legal limit, into the sea to stabilize the crippled plant on Monday.

South Korea's Foreign Affairs and Trade Ministry conveyed its concern to Japan's Foreign Ministry on Monday evening through its embassy in Tokyo.

The South Korean ministry pointed out that release of contaminated wastewater could be a violation of international law.

South Koreas have been increasingly worried about radioactive contamination of tap water and farm products. Minute amounts of radioactive material have been detected in the country after the trouble of the nuclear plant.

There's growing criticism in the country that Japan failed to notify neighboring countries in advance about the release of contaminated water.

Tuesday, April 05, 2011 16:02 +0900 (JST)

http://www3.nhk.or.j...lish/05_28.html

That's what it is, a violation of international laws and a very grave one.

Definitely... And i do not understand how come they "didn't have choice"... They are pumping the water out anyways... So why was it not an option of putting it all in one oil tanker? Japan also has oil tankers at their disposal...

I just feel baffled when i read these news... Why experiment with the ocean, sea life and humans eating the fish etc as well? Why not contain the water in the tankers? But I do not know how to ask the Japanese government or TEPCO this and I'm not sure if they would listen... If someone would be able to explain as to why was it not an option I would really like to hear the explanation.... Again I am not an expert but it seems to me that "dumping stuff in the water" should not be such an easy option...

[StreetCowboy]

Just a short story on radiation and natural?? accumulation.

A radioactive source was lost from a oil field service vehicle, somewhere between their last field job and return to base. (Cesium I might add), now its supposed to be in a container which is locked with marking, phone number, reward offer, etc for anyone who would happen upon it. It was determined that someone forgot to lock the shield, which was secured to the truck, thus a hot unshielded source was out there some where.

The survey truck was sent back along its same return route with a gamma ray/neutron detector device being continually monitored and recorded for presentation to government powers if needed/requested. Driving along the route, through several towns/cities, the crew noticed very high reading passing thru the towns at various alley ways. Upon inspection, they found that they were picking up high reading from the large trash receptacles which require a lift truck to pick up.

The good news was they found the source on the location they had been working at, buried in the mud from when they backed over it. The bad news for them, is they were fired. The gamma ray reading they picked up from dumpsters were 2 to 6 times over normal background in that area. A couple gave a similar reading as when we placed a calibration pill (radium) on the tools to standardize the tools.

Easily done. Someone earlier posted a link to a thread about Thailand's worst nuclear accident, that resulted in several deaths.

Its almost enough to put you off weld inspections and radio-medicine.

I don't suppose they investigated into what was in the dumpsters?

The thing with radioactive pollution is that it is so easy to trace, and there has been so much investment in technology to detect, quantify and classify radioactive materials.

I imagine that radioactive pollution can fairly easily be detected far below the natural background radiation level, with reasonably straightforward instrumentation and equipment.

SC

Edit: http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/Pub1124_scr.pdf

Link added for the lazy but easily distracted...

Edited April 5, 2011 by StreetCowboy

[brahmburgers]

Here are two URL's plus a few excerpts. Each is put out by Thailand's government owned EGAT, which is the corp which will be bringing N to Thailand. They're both .pdf, and expectedly, have decent color graphics. They make reference to a feasibility study (FS) (by Burns and Roe Asia, Ltd. - Oct 2008 - May 2010), but of course don't say how much that study costs or what the detailed results were. Instead, it just shows as much 'glowing' (pun intended) data as possible. Obviously, the expensive FS was designed to have only one conclusion, with no objective data allowed. It would be interesting to see how that FS would turn out if it was a tad bit objective and ...in lieu of the recent N problems in Japan. Since EGAT is a Thai government Corp, it stands that Thai taxpayers indirectly paid for the FS, and are therefore allowed to see its details. No such luck. The hundreds of millions of baht has been paid, EGAT got the report it wanted, and that it.

Thailand’s Nuclear Power s Plant Feasibility Study

Thai Professionals Conference (TPC 2010)

Monday, June 5, 2010

Apisit Patchimpattapong, Ph.D.

Nuclear Engineering Division

Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand (EGAT)

Nuclear Energy is:

>>> reliable

>>> low and stable cost

>>> no greenhouse gases emissions

BB's note: It's almost a sad joke to still hear officials touting N as having 'no greenhouse gases'. It's like a restaurant saying, 'We don't put MSG on your beef stew, but we marinate it in arsenic sauce.'

Below is a survey conducted by EGAT (very objective, I'm sure), which shows pro and anti nuclear sentiment in Thailand. This is BEFORE the Japanese problem.

Nuclear power development - somewhere in Thailand for: 64 / against: 32

in their own province - for: 32 / against:59

In their own community - for: 24 / against: 66

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

BB: Here's the 2nd report.

URL: http://rbdweb.nstda.or.th/rbdweb/download/1-Nuclear.pdf

Dr. Kurujit Nakornthap

Deputy Permanent Secretary,

Ministry of Energy, Thailand

"Nuclear power has an excellent safety record"

Source: H-Holger Rogner, Head of Planning & Economic Studies Section, Department of Nuclear Energy, IAEA, 2010

"At present, Public information program to promote nuclear energy is being developed by Subcommittee on Public Information and Public Participation and EGAT’s working group on Public Communications. TV/Radio ad campaigns (including use of recognized Thai personalities on talk shows, etc), mailings (e.g., with electric bills), websites, newspaper and etc are considered as the effective media tools to communicate with the public. The program contents include the benefits of providing future electrical generation i.e. economic benefits (competitive cost of electricity), reduced green house gas emissions, and greater security of supply."

BB's note; it goes on to say there will probably be incentives for the surrounding community, such as low or no costs for electcity.

BB's note: EGAT, true to form, will do their public campaign, only singing praises of nuclear. You won't hear about the drawbacks from them, except as a foil to show there can be no problems - with newer technology.

[StreetCowboy]

Does anyone have any information on the Japanese earthquake warning systems? How long in advance of the arrival of the earthquake tremors were the reactors shut down?

Do they have off-shore monitoring instruments to warn of the approach of the seismic waves? How far offshore was the epi-centre, in any case?

SC

[midas]

S Korea criticizes release of radioactive water

South Korea has expressed concern over Japan's release of contaminated water into the sea from the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

The Japanese government approved the action by the plant operator. Tokyo Electric Power Company began dumping wastewater containing radioactive materials, including iodine-131 with a level of about 100 times the legal limit, into the sea to stabilize the crippled plant on Monday.

South Korea's Foreign Affairs and Trade Ministry conveyed its concern to Japan's Foreign Ministry on Monday evening through its embassy in Tokyo.

The South Korean ministry pointed out that release of contaminated wastewater could be a violation of international law.

South Koreas have been increasingly worried about radioactive contamination of tap water and farm products. Minute amounts of radioactive material have been detected in the country after the trouble of the nuclear plant.

There's growing criticism in the country that Japan failed to notify neighboring countries in advance about the release of contaminated water.

Tuesday, April 05, 2011 16:02 +0900 (JST)

http://www3.nhk.or.j...lish/05_28.html

That's what it is, a violation of international laws and a very grave one.

Definitely... And i do not understand how come they "didn't have choice"... They are pumping the water out anyways... So why was it not an option of putting it all in one oil tanker? Japan also has oil tankers at their disposal...

I just feel baffled when i read these news... Why experiment with the ocean, sea life and humans eating the fish etc as well? Why not contain the water in the tankers? But I do not know how to ask the Japanese government or TEPCO this and I'm not sure if they would listen... If someone would be able to explain as to why was it not an option I would really like to hear the explanation.... Again I am not an expert but it seems to me that "dumping stuff in the water" should not be such an easy option...

This arrogant view of what is after all an international ocean should not come as too much of a

surprise when you consider how they blatantly ignored requests to stop slaughtering whales.

[StreetCowboy]

S Korea criticizes release of radioactive water

South Korea has expressed concern over Japan's release of contaminated water into the sea from the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

The Japanese government approved the action by the plant operator. Tokyo Electric Power Company began dumping wastewater containing radioactive materials, including iodine-131 with a level of about 100 times the legal limit, into the sea to stabilize the crippled plant on Monday.

South Korea's Foreign Affairs and Trade Ministry conveyed its concern to Japan's Foreign Ministry on Monday evening through its embassy in Tokyo.

The South Korean ministry pointed out that release of contaminated wastewater could be a violation of international law.

South Koreas have been increasingly worried about radioactive contamination of tap water and farm products. Minute amounts of radioactive material have been detected in the country after the trouble of the nuclear plant.

There's growing criticism in the country that Japan failed to notify neighboring countries in advance about the release of contaminated water.

Tuesday, April 05, 2011 16:02 +0900 (JST)

http://www3.nhk.or.j...lish/05_28.html

That's what it is, a violation of international laws and a very grave one.

Definitely... And i do not understand how come they "didn't have choice"... They are pumping the water out anyways... So why was it not an option of putting it all in one oil tanker? Japan also has oil tankers at their disposal...

I just feel baffled when i read these news... Why experiment with the ocean, sea life and humans eating the fish etc as well? Why not contain the water in the tankers? But I do not know how to ask the Japanese government or TEPCO this and I'm not sure if they would listen... If someone would be able to explain as to why was it not an option I would really like to hear the explanation.... Again I am not an expert but it seems to me that "dumping stuff in the water" should not be such an easy option...

This arrogant view of what is after all an international ocean should not come as too much of a

surprise when you consider how they blatantly ignored requests to stop slaughtering whales.

Do they ignore requests, or decline them?

[Chopperboy]

Lets recall the fact that our planet didn't have any natural radiation but now we have various kinds of very dangerous substances which are man-made....

Further to this spectacular piece of nonsense, you may be interested to read the section on cancer risk to miners in this article

http://www.ccnr.org/uranium_deadliest.html#die

which appears to imply that radiation is as natural as - as rocks in the ground, for example.

SC

Dr Al Sears

It may be that you can measure your total exposure to radiation, and get a quantification so you can compare radiation from scans and X-rays and nuclear blasts to radiation from the natural source, but that’s where the similarities end.

It’s a totally different kind of radiation. It’s a different exposure, it’s coming from a different source, it has a different level of energy… the only thing that’s the same is the quantity. But the character of the radiation is entirely unrelated, and is something that is unnatural to you.

Don’t let them tell you the radiation from nuclear fuel is in any way the same as other kinds of radiation.

In fact, this is one of the biggest things they gloss over when looking at the magnitude of radiation exposure, and trying to convince you that this is negligible.

Who knows if standing in front of that scanner and exposing your gonads to it, or standing on the beach in Washington state, is safe or not? No one can say that it’s safe just because it’s the same quantity as a day at the beach. That’s a big presumption that there’s no evidence for.

Any level of new radiation is something you can’t know the result of.

http://www.alsearsmd.net/interspire/link.php?M=462124&N=1201&L=1785&F=H

Edited April 5, 2011 by Chopperboy