Police Move In To Disperse PAD Rally In Bangkok

[hanuman1]

Better for the Army to deal with it from the outset. They have better weapons.

The Reds want to die for their cause. I would accomodate them.

You've just become a hero to some people on this board. Well done. Give yourself a cookie.

[chachachacha]

Better for the Army to deal with it from the outset. They have better weapons.

The Reds want to die for their cause. I would accomodate them.

You say the same for Gaddaffi & his army . You sad sad excuse of a thing .

[jdinasia]

Whilst the calling out of right-wingers on this thread is all well and good (and apparently easy), I'd like to steer it back for a moment to the original post.

With the apparent inability of the police to control crowds of any persuation, does anyone know if the current government's policies include increased funding for the pay/training/equipment of police forces? I think there was some talk of increased pay, but training seems to be equally needed.

I suspect that had the police been able to do their job a year ago, significantly less military personnel - and therefore deaths - would have occurred in the protest zone.

Cheers.

I didn't realize you thought of the guy slinging the ad hominem attacks as being a 'right-winger". The only really easy thing recently involving calling someone out was when they were talking about the Western socio-political idealism of people who thought differently than themselves, who ended with , that's how they do it at home

If the police had been able to do their job in 2008, there would have been less military involved with everything. The police failed to protect the PAD from grenade attacks from Sae Daeng's crew AND failed to effectively prevent the PAD move on parliament, and failed to prevent allowing the PAD access to the airports. (Note --- I am in no way changing my opinion of those events, just agreeing that the police failed to do their jobs at any level! --- second note --- I did actually change my opinion about using water cannon on protesters since the early PAD actions)

The police here are just a mess when it comes to many things. Why should that surprise anybody? Think about what the political landscape in Thailand would be like if they were competent! The PAD wouldn't have done anything more upon heading to parliament than to protest. They wouldn't have been the victims of frequent grenade attacks. They would have been prevented from entering the grounds of airports en masse. PPP would still have fallen, too much evidence against them. PTP probably would not have been able to form the government afterwards, but there wouldn't have been the same level of continued violent riots by their udd associates. etc

[TechnikaIII]

ASTV claiming that protesters are being prevented from entering protest site /TAN_Network

They were given advanced warning, that the Red Cross Fair had permits to use that area, and had gotten them well ahead of time. Apparently PAD believes Possession is 9/10 the law.

Since 5 years PAD IS the law.

They want Taksin out and he's out.

They want the Dems in charge and they are.

They want the Reds killed and there were.

They want the war against Cambodia and it's there.

They have SO powerful support.

Let's see what their support will do today.

If only PAD had executed good governance, that five years was time enough to bring significant change, ... for the better. But ...

[dunkin2012]

continued:

14. 2002 dead fetuses found in a Buddhist monastery

15. few Farangs died in CM

16. severe drought is await to come

17. polluted Gold mine in Pichit Prov.

18. inadequate health care for its own citizens but heavenly for western middle class

19. food prices keep increasing

[hanuman1]

Whilst the calling out of right-wingers on this thread is all well and good (and apparently easy), I'd like to steer it back for a moment to the original post.

With the apparent inability of the police to control crowds of any persuation, does anyone know if the current government's policies include increased funding for the pay/training/equipment of police forces? I think there was some talk of increased pay, but training seems to be equally needed.

I suspect that had the police been able to do their job a year ago, significantly less military personnel - and therefore deaths - would have occurred in the protest zone.

Cheers.

I didn't realize you thought of the guy slinging the ad hominem attacks as being a 'right-winger". The only really easy thing recently involving calling someone out was when they were talking about the Western socio-political idealism of people who thought differently than themselves, who ended with , that's how they do it at home

If the police had been able to do their job in 2008, there would have been less military involved with everything. The police failed to protect the PAD from grenade attacks from Sae Daeng's crew AND failed to effectively prevent the PAD move on parliament, and failed to prevent allowing the PAD access to the airports. (Note --- I am in no way changing my opinion of those events, just agreeing that the police failed to do their jobs at any level! --- second note --- I did actually change my opinion about using water cannon on protesters since the early PAD actions)

The police here are just a mess when it comes to many things. Why should that surprise anybody? Think about what the political landscape in Thailand would be like if they were competent! The PAD wouldn't have done anything more upon heading to parliament than to protest. They wouldn't have been the victims of frequent grenade attacks. They would have been prevented from entering the grounds of airports en masse. PPP would still have fallen, too much evidence against them. PTP probably would not have been able to form the government afterwards, but there wouldn't have been the same level of continued violent riots by their udd associates. etc

marvellous

[webfact]

Protesters Asked to Shift Rally Site

Police have asked the Thai Patriots Network to move its protest rally from Phitsanuloke Road to make way for the upcoming Red Cross fair.

Commander of the Metropolitan Police Division 1, Police Major General Wichai Sangprapai, said he met with leaders of the Thai Patriots Network, Chaiwat Sinsuwong and Somboon Thongburan, earlier today to negotiate for the relocation of their demonstration on Phitsanuloke Road to make way for the upcoming Red Cross fair.

Wichai noted that he suggested two places where the group can relocate the rally , namely the area under Rama 8 bridge near the Bank of Thailand, which is close to their current protest site, and the area near the Finance Ministry.

The commander added he assured the group that the city police will coordinate with the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration to provide mobile toilets for the protesters.

Meanwhile, the group's leaders acknowledged police's request, but asked for some more time to discuss the issue with the group's committee and will return for another round of negotiations with police on Friday.

-- Tan Network 2011-03-14

[jayboy]

I found myself about to offer you the chance to come by and peruse my library and mention some books by author, then realized it would be giving in to your off-topic, ad hominem attacks.

As predicted.He just can't mention even one book, even after I have undertaken not to "follow up" in any way.

[hanuman1]

I found myself about to offer you the chance to come by and peruse my library and mention some books by author, then realized it would be giving in to your off-topic, ad hominem attacks.

As predicted.He just can't mention even one book, even after I have undertaken not to "follow up" in any way.

Since he has an entire library, maybe he just can't decide which book to choose.

[Phuket Stan]

I found myself about to offer you the chance to come by and peruse my library and mention some books by author, then realized it would be giving in to your off-topic, ad hominem attacks.

As predicted.He just can't mention even one book, even after I have undertaken not to "follow up" in any way.

Since he has an entire library, maybe he just can't decide which book to choose.

Sounds more like beaded handbags or wet bus tickets at dawn

There are a lot of people on this board have no idea of coalition politics

Until they do they should refrain from putting theorem size nines in the place where nourishment should be placed

[jdinasia]

I found myself about to offer you the chance to come by and peruse my library and mention some books by author, then realized it would be giving in to your off-topic, ad hominem attacks.

As predicted.He just can't mention even one book, even after I have undertaken not to "follow up" in any way.

As asked before please do not modify my posts The rest is still off-topic and a continuation of ad hominem attacks

[hanuman1]

I found myself about to offer you the chance to come by and peruse my library and mention some books by author, then realized it would be giving in to your off-topic, ad hominem attacks.

As predicted.He just can't mention even one book, even after I have undertaken not to "follow up" in any way.

Please be gentle with him. He has a very thin skin for someone who at a stroke accuses thousands of people of being terrorists.

[TechnikaIII]

UMMMM Has anyone ever told or attempted to educate the REDSHIRTS to use their voting power and stop selling their votes to whoever gives them 100 Baht and some free Buffalo ??????

YES ITS TRUE . This year someone is arranging volleyball games , parties , free beef , and 150 Baht in exchange for rural votes !! This comes from the family of my friends who live near Bueng Kan the newest province . Somebody wants to be elected !!

Well that's what polititians do in the USA all the time !!! ... and WORSE .

And in Australia's recent history, the John Howard led conservatives gave all the pensioners $300 ... as a 'gift'. And THAT is how HE bought votes, got elected, and returned time after time, until finally thrown out. (In the mean time he sold off Australia's assets to balance the books. After all, he is an accountant. .. or was.)

Hey hey !! Someone wants to be elected!! ? Yep ;-)

[dunkin2012]

UMMMM Has anyone ever told or attempted to educate the REDSHIRTS to use their voting power and stop selling their votes to whoever gives them 100 Baht and some free Buffalo ??????

YES ITS TRUE . This year someone is arranging volleyball games , parties , free beef , and 150 Baht in exchange for rural votes !! This comes from the family of my friends who live near Bueng Kan the newest province . Somebody wants to be elected !!

Well that's what polititians do in the USA all the time !!! ... and WORSE .

And in Australia's recent history, the John Howard led conservatives gave all the pensioners $300 ... as a 'gift'. And THAT is how HE bought votes, got elected, and returned time after time, until finally thrown out. (In the mean time he sold off Australia's assets to balance the books. After all, he is an accountant. .. or was.)

Hey hey !! Someone wants to be elected!! ? Yep ;-)

hum..... Apparently dude

[Just1Voice]

A few things.

Anyone with more than 2 working brain cells knows the police force in LOS is a joke. In a different TV forum a man stated that he asked his 10 yr old son what he wanted to be when he grew up. The boy replied "Policeman". The father thought that was great, and asked his son if it was to serve the country and protect people. The boy replied: "No. To get rich. Everyone knows that if you become a policeman, when you retire you're a millionaire". This from a 10 yr old.

While the present government may be "technically legitimate", it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the Dems haven't won an election in so long they have forgotten what it was like. Dr. T, love him or hate him, is the only PM in Thai history to be elected to consecutive terms.

After the coup, the military made no secret about appointing new judges who agreed with the military view of things. With that in mind, is it any wonder that the PTP, which won 2 landslide victories AFTER the coup, were then ousted by the courts?

Yes, this government was "legally elected" by Parliament, but it was a Parliament that had been "cleansed" of any opposition forces to prevent them from coming to power.

I find it somewhat amusing that PPP and PTP were disbanded for "vote fraud", "vote bying", etc., but the exact same charges brought against the Dems were dismissed by the courts without even a hearing, with the courts stating that there was "insufficient evidence" to proceed. No investigation = no evidence. No evidence = no case. End of story. Yet, the reality is that the Dems are just as culpable, and guilty, of vote buying as any/all other political parties.

I also find it interesting that a PAD leader told the police that the Army would come to PAD's rescue if the police tried to force them out. This is: 1) An old man with delusions of grander days in his past blowing smoke up someone's backside, or: 2) A reality that could rip this country apart if that happened.

As for my personal opinion, PAD stands for Politburo Against Democracy. Their opinion of "democracy" is a return to the "good old days" where the rich and elite rule, while the poor and uneducated simply obey without question. Their desire for a 70/30 Parliament would be funny, if not so frightening. 70% appointed by the elites, academics and military, with only 30% being elected. But the catch there is that ONLY those with a university degree, or X-amount of money, would be allowed to vote. Remember Sondi's famous quote, repeated more than once, that the rural poor were too stupid to vote, and therefore shouldn't be allowed to vote.

The unfortunate part is, regardless of which party wins the next election, the losers will not go quietly into the night and wait for the next one and hope their chances are better, but will resort to the protests, and violence, we've been witness to over the past few years.

Alas, Thailand, you could be so much more, but I doubt that I'll see it in my lifetime.

Edited March 14, 2011 by Just1Voice

[BigBikeBKK]

Are PAD the reds or the yellows? I really can't tell the difference anymore....

[mkawish]

And now that deputy SuThep orders the Police Chief to bring closure to Yellow Rally within two days.... that is by Wednesday, March 16, 2011....

it remains to be seen....

If the Police fails or refuses to ultimately crash the rally....

deputy SuThep would be viewed by most as hopeless, helpless and therefore should step down....

just like the past two governments they step down when their ultimate order fails to achieve its intended goals and objectives....

Ahhhh, the pot is now thicken by the minutes....

Can hardly wait.... will the Police thrash the yelllow rally to please the boss....?

Dare the police step inside the yellow rally when they know perfectly well that amongst the yellows are military personnel mixing in with the crowd....?

Mind you, the military super tanks are just a stone throw away from the yellow rally site....

Some military personnel mixed in with the rally already stated privately that some of their representatives are among the yellow rally just as observers mainly....

because there are just too many old ladies and children present at the rally.... the police who have been overly extended and overly exhausted....

might just mistaken those defenseless as their fierce enemy.... and might just overstep their duties and responsibilities prescribed by the constitutions....

When it comes to push.... it won't be pretty.... for anyone or anyside....

[jayboy]

I found myself about to offer you the chance to come by and peruse my library and mention some books by author, then realized it would be giving in to your off-topic, ad hominem attacks.

As predicted.He just can't mention even one book, even after I have undertaken not to "follow up" in any way.

As asked before please do not modify my posts The rest is still off-topic and a continuation of ad hominem attacks

Forum rules on shortening posts to manageable levels have been carefully explained to you already.

If you can't name a book that's influenced you just say so and that's an end of it.

Meaningless and vague complaints about "ad hominem attacks" are very lame.If you have a specific problem I will do my best to address it.

[mkawish]

I found myself about to offer you the chance to come by and peruse my library and mention some books by author, then realized it would be giving in to your off-topic, ad hominem attacks.

As predicted.He just can't mention even one book, even after I have undertaken not to "follow up" in any way.

As asked before please do not modify my posts The rest is still off-topic and a continuation of ad hominem attacks

Forum rules on shortening posts to manageable levels have been carefully explained to you already.

If you can't name a book that's influenced you just say so and that's an end of it.

Meaningless and vague complaints about "ad hominem attacks" are very lame.If you have a specific problem I will do my best to address it.

I vaguely remember.... that he once mentioned.... Milton's Paradise Lost....

would that count at all in his defenseless stage....

[jdinasia]

Yet more personal attacks by jayboy .... again listing a bibliography serves no purpose and is (yet again) off topic. All apparently, including me, refuse to be baited by you.

He started with the "profound ignorance" baiting with things like the CPT and army crackdowns (even when shown the direct relevance). You are welcome to whatever opinion you have of the scope of my knowledge I have my own opinions about some posters and their credibility on many issues not the least of which include ethnic bigotry .. since it isn't relevant to the topic it doesn't get brought up.

I found myself about to offer you the chance to come by and peruse my library and mention some books by author, then realized it would be giving in to your off-topic, ad hominem attacks.

My manageable length post -- before altered by Jayboy. In the post I stated that playing jayboy's bibliography game serves no purpose (anyone can google) and is off topic.

Jayboy ---I have stated I have no intention on playing your bibliography game --- Your continued harassment on this subject is both off topic and boring to myself (and I would suggest, others)

[rubl]

Forum rules on shortening posts to manageable levels have been carefully explained to you already.

If you can't name a book that's influenced you just say so and that's an end of it.

Meaningless and vague complaints about "ad hominem attacks" are very lame.If you have a specific problem I will do my best to address it.

I vaguely remember.... that he once mentioned.... Milton's Paradise Lost....

would that count at all in his defenseless stage....

Maybe should start looking for the sequel 'Paradise Regained'

[jayboy]

My manageable length post -- before altered by Jayboy. In the post I stated that playing jayboy's bibliography game serves no purpose (anyone can google) and is off topic.

Jayboy ---I have stated I have no intention on playing your bibliography game --- Your continued harassment on this subject is both off topic and boring to myself (and I would suggest, others)

Fair enough:boredom can't be forgiven.

I wasn't playing a bibliography game, simply asking you to name one book on Thai politics that's influenced you.

You have refused to do this as have your fellow rightists.

[whybother]

A few things.

Anyone with more than 2 working brain cells knows the police force in LOS is a joke. In a different TV forum a man stated that he asked his 10 yr old son what he wanted to be when he grew up. The boy replied "Policeman". The father thought that was great, and asked his son if it was to serve the country and protect people. The boy replied: "No. To get rich. Everyone knows that if you become a policeman, when you retire you're a millionaire". This from a 10 yr old.

While the present government may be "technically legitimate", it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the Dems haven't won an election in so long they have forgotten what it was like. Dr. T, love him or hate him, is the only PM in Thai history to be elected to consecutive terms.

After the coup, the military made no secret about appointing new judges who agreed with the military view of things. With that in mind, is it any wonder that the PTP, which won 2 landslide victories AFTER the coup, were then ousted by the courts?

Yes, this government was "legally elected" by Parliament, but it was a Parliament that had been "cleansed" of any opposition forces to prevent them from coming to power.

I find it somewhat amusing that PPP and PTP were disbanded for "vote fraud", "vote bying", etc., but the exact same charges brought against the Dems were dismissed by the courts without even a hearing, with the courts stating that there was "insufficient evidence" to proceed. No investigation = no evidence. No evidence = no case. End of story. Yet, the reality is that the Dems are just as culpable, and guilty, of vote buying as any/all other political parties.

I also find it interesting that a PAD leader told the police that the Army would come to PAD's rescue if the police tried to force them out. This is: 1) An old man with delusions of grander days in his past blowing smoke up someone's backside, or: 2) A reality that could rip this country apart if that happened.

As for my personal opinion, PAD stands for Politburo Against Democracy. Their opinion of "democracy" is a return to the "good old days" where the rich and elite rule, while the poor and uneducated simply obey without question. Their desire for a 70/30 Parliament would be funny, if not so frightening. 70% appointed by the elites, academics and military, with only 30% being elected. But the catch there is that ONLY those with a university degree, or X-amount of money, would be allowed to vote. Remember Sondi's famous quote, repeated more than once, that the rural poor were too stupid to vote, and therefore shouldn't be allowed to vote.

The unfortunate part is, regardless of which party wins the next election, the losers will not go quietly into the night and wait for the next one and hope their chances are better, but will resort to the protests, and violence, we've been witness to over the past few years.

Alas, Thailand, you could be so much more, but I doubt that I'll see it in my lifetime.

"is it any wonder that the PTP, which won 2 landslide victories AFTER the coup," Have there been TWO elections since the last coup?? The PTP must have been in the second one because they weren't in the 2007 election.

"I find it somewhat amusing that PPP and PTP were disbanded for "vote fraud", "vote bying", etc" The PTP have been disbanded too??? I haven't checked the news this afternoon. Maybe I missed it.

"but the exact same charges brought against the Dems were dismissed by the courts without even a hearing" More news that I've missed? But if there was no hearing, how did the courts dismiss the charges? Did the Democrats get caught on video handing over a briefcase full of cash? That's what the PPP got disbanded for, isn't it? I'm not sure what the PTP got disbanded for, as I missed that piece of recent news.

I was only away for one weekend. How did they run an election, have the PTP disbanded, have the Democrats charged with handing over wads of cash and then the case dismissed by the courts without a hearing ... all in just 2 days.

[jdinasia]

My manageable length post -- before altered by Jayboy. In the post I stated that playing jayboy's bibliography game serves no purpose (anyone can google) and is off topic.

Jayboy ---I have stated I have no intention on playing your bibliography game --- Your continued harassment on this subject is both off topic and boring to myself (and I would suggest, others)

Fair enough:boredom can't be forgiven.

I wasn't playing a bibliography game, simply asking you to name one book on Thai politics that's influenced you.

You have refused to do this as have your fellow rightists.

Exactly --- I refuse. Mentioning the name of a book without discussing it is strictly a bibliography exercise. I see it as a manipulative game that you are playing since as I said anyone can google, and your continued pestering about it as harassment.

edit --- and I see myself as a centrist. How you see me is irrelevant

Edited March 14, 2011 by jdinasia

[Pi Sek]

It's clearly getting late in the day

jdinasia doesn't really have a reason to name a source - like he says, anyone can google, some better than others (Buchholz is excellent at it).

It's not entirely off topic, as one who reads Ji Ungpakorn's work will obtain different ideas as one who reads what The Nation have to say - neither of them are "neutral" (even though The Nation has one or two journalists with "dissenting" opinions). Of course, we should all read all of them, but it's a case of time management, given the amount of them and the totally opposite points of view

I can't say which publications I like - that's why I wrote something myself. Not published though, and no intention of doing so... it was more like a running personal diary relating to Thai public events, to put my thoughts down on paper and to establish a timeline of events without a slant (other than my own - and I can't lie to myself).

[Pi Sek]

Just to add quickly, Robert Amsterdam's white paper is a publication that has "influenced" me. The influence it had on me was disgust more than anything, and not towards the army.

[jayboy]

Exactly --- I refuse. Mentioning the name of a book without discussing it is strictly a bibliography exercise.

But you were the one that gave the reason for not naming the book as your unwillingness to discuss it (mudslinging) !!!!

I know why you have refused so no need to invent reasons.

[jdinasia]

UMMMM Has anyone ever told or attempted to educate the REDSHIRTS to use their voting power and stop selling their votes to whoever gives them 100 Baht and some free Buffalo ??????

YES ITS TRUE . This year someone is arranging volleyball games , parties , free beef , and 150 Baht in exchange for rural votes !! This comes from the family of my friends who live near Bueng Kan the newest province . Somebody wants to be elected !!

Well that's what polititians do in the USA all the time !!! ... and WORSE .

And in Australia's recent history, the John Howard led conservatives gave all the pensioners $300 ... as a 'gift'. And THAT is how HE bought votes, got elected, and returned time after time, until finally thrown out. (In the mean time he sold off Australia's assets to balance the books. After all, he is an accountant. .. or was.)

Hey hey !! Someone wants to be elected!! ? Yep ;-)

Actually they hand out the goodies AFTER the election based upon promises in the West. Which is different than handing them out before the elections. The first is pushing a populist agenda to a specific voting bloc and the second is vote-buying. In the West, few enough people actually expect politicians to keep campaign promises. In fact, even though I am rabidly anti-Republican in regards to US politics, I threw away my vote on a 2nd Clinton term (I voted Libertarian that time) due to his failure to keep a campaign promise.

[jdinasia]

It's clearly getting late in the day

jdinasia doesn't really have a reason to name a source - like he says, anyone can google, some better than others (Buchholz is excellent at it).

It's not entirely off topic, as one who reads Ji Ungpakorn's work will obtain different ideas as one who reads what The Nation have to say - neither of them are "neutral" (even though The Nation has one or two journalists with "dissenting" opinions). Of course, we should all read all of them, but it's a case of time management, given the amount of them and the totally opposite points of view

I can't say which publications I like - that's why I wrote something myself. Not published though, and no intention of doing so... it was more like a running personal diary relating to Thai public events, to put my thoughts down on paper and to establish a timeline of events without a slant (other than my own - and I can't lie to myself).

Exactly

(I used to keep some files on events, but life got way too busy to keep them current. There have been a few of us posting on politics long enough here to catch the blatant lies and manipulations ... and the simply uneducated opinions. I have been corrected by other posters on many occasions ((posters that tend to see things my way, but will certainly call me out when I make a factual error!)))

[jdinasia]

Just to add quickly, Robert Amsterdam's white paper is a publication that has "influenced" me. The influence it had on me was disgust more than anything, and not towards the army.

Concur