Do Thais Truly Accept Gays?

[boris]

Maybe you need to start using condoms!

Yes, that was in poor taste, and apologies.  But so was your implication that "gay" automatically has associations with HIV that straight does not.

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I take your point as far as Thailand is concerned.However the most recent statistics from the UK show HIV/Aids is still overwhelmingly (1) a gay and (2) African immigrant condition.The number of confirmed heterosexual transmissions outside the African immigrant population is tiny, less than 200 if I remember correctly.So returning to the original post one would have to agree that in a general sense HIV has associations with gay that straight does not.The debate in the UK at the moment is whether a more honest health education approach focusing more closely on the groups most at risk would pay better dividends.The line that everbody is equally at risk has been shown to be untrue.On the whole it's better not to lie to the public on health matters.

Edited September 22, 2005 by boris

[Guest endure]

I always see the boys holding hands and the lesbians with hikeys and I'm sure they got it from other girls.  If this is accepted openly at a Mathayom school, the answer to the OPs topic is yes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thai boys (and adult males) hold hands because they're friends. It's got nothing to do with being gay.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what about having their heads in another's lap and hands on their thingies?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What's that got to do with holding hands? I have a good Thai friend here in the UK and he often holds my hand when I go round to see him but I'm sure his wife and kids would be a little perturbed if he put his head in my lap or held my thingie.

[The_Moog]

what about having their heads in another's lap and hands on their thingies?

If schoolboys can put their hands on a girl's woozer, why can't they put their hands on each others thingies?

[remmy]

// Several Posts here deleted - totally off topic.

Moderator

ChrisP

[noctiluca]

I haven't come back to this topic until now. I notice it is kinda got hijacked to something else.

I guess I have a part in this not keeping it consistent to the topic. It's just I have no Net access at my apartment right now, and this kind of conversation requires thoughts for me to write the way I want to convey. Anyway, it is nice, nonetheless, to see people interested in my post, no matter it keeps to or strayed from the topic. If I have time, and find a place I can access the Net conveniently, I will come back again.

[mijan24]

I always see the boys holding hands and t

Acceptance is a very interesting "Topic" I am not gay but believe in the concept everyone to their own, it may suprise some "Gay Farangs" to know Thais accept/tolerate "Gays" amongst Thais - what they think and say about "Farang Gays" is an entirely different story.

Remember when we ask do Thais accept "Gays" we are not just limiting this question of acceptance? to "acceptance within the general Gay community" but acceptance by the community as a whole.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

One poster asked has Thai society become more tolerant of homosexuality over the past 20 years - of course there are those who say yes & those who say no.

In 1993 Rajabhat Institues took a very stronger stand against their student teachers being homosexual - Then in 1997 the then Education Minister banned homosexuals from being admitted to teacher training facilities. One aspect of these actions was the Thai view that a "teacher" was a respected profession and considered to be "role model" - The Education Minister was lambasted by many but the Prime Minister of the time took a low profile approach and looked at "homosexual teachers" being deployed to posions where they could not influence young students.

So less tolerant or more tolerant ???

# Experience shows that a point of view not uncommon in Thailand, is one of concern with the 'cause' of homosexuality. Thai media and academic discourses have typically described both male and female homosexuality in negative terms only.

#The list of negative qualities commonly attributed to homosexuality includes: phit prapheni [against customary norms], sia chaat koet [to have wasted or spoiled one's current incarnation], witthaan [queer, abnormal] and wipparit [perverted]. Within these discourses, the homosexual is conflated with 'wrong' personality and 'inappropriate' behaviour.

Edited November 2, 2005 by mijan24

[Ijustwannateach]

Interesting that you knew this much, but either did not know or chose not to post that due to massive lobbying from gay rights advocates, that bigoted and ignoble decision was reversed. (a link would be welcome if anyone has one).

So, as you say, less tolerant or more tolerant?

"Steven"

[mijan24]

Interesting that you knew this much, but either did not know or chose not to post that due to massive lobbying from gay rights advocates, that bigoted and ignoble decision was reversed. (a link would be welcome if anyone has one).

So, as you say, less tolerant or more tolerant?

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

IJWT the Op's heading is - Do Thais Truly Accept Gays? - I did include "The Education Minister was lambasted by many" so there is no hidden agenda - just an input to illustrate not all Thais accept "gays"

[c_bangkok]

I'm sorry I'm short on time and won't be able to so eloquently answer your post as others, but I believe I can understand a piece;

I'm in a serious relationship with a 40 year old Thai tom named Bang, a relationship which was started do to common interests through the Thai family I live with.

Pang now says she/he'd love me regardless of gender, but I do believe this is my Western influence. Being with Bang I've learned a lot about being gay or lesbian in Thailand, but chiefly (and quickly) Thais accept gays/lesbian, but as men who want to be woman (which is fading) and always woman who want to be men. A dee will tell me she likes men, and then introduce me to a tom friend of Bang's. Teaching the words sir and mam to Bang at the beginning of our relationship, Bang said something to the effect of, well than I'm a sir, and to my response he said toms want to be sirs. The first time I was with Bang, Bang wouldn't let me below belt level or to remove the breast binder (which isn't common for all toms, Bang had it specially made; toms tend to wear tight bras and layers). But asked if wanted to actually be a man, Bang replies no. Asking other toms I'm close friends with, they'll say they would never have an operation or anything like that. That's not what they're about.

In order for woman to be accepted in Thai society, as they've been (at least 'nit-noy') for longer than America's been a country, they've needed to assume either a male role or a female role. Both are based completely on heterosexuality, so unlike homosexuality for homosexuality's sake in the west( that sounded negative; it was not).

When I came to Thailand, a family I stayed with and others who had everyday contact had no idea what to make of me. Somedays I'd dress like a man (though I suppose I dont think of it/didn't/ as that) and some as a woman. In America, where I'm from, lesbians will/may do both on a regular average. From a close Thai friend I got it first, after only a brief aquaintance. Are you a tom, or are you a dee, or do you really like men? I'm not a tom or a dee, but I like woman. Well do you like toms or dees, she replied. Both I said. Clearly, and I've found out ever since, that's not in the least socially acceptable.

I attend a Thai public school and am in Matium hoc. Even in younger grades, you can see the toms seperate from the heterosexual group, where the dees remain. They're almost the excusive girls sport team, which brings shame, perhaps only thoughts they'll been seen as a tom but it must be more negative or unattractive if they avoid it, to a heterosexual who wants to join and so they barely ever do. I've know many dees who have had tom boyfriends and actual male boyfriends.

Now I'm losing my footing and rather rambling, but I hope you can understand wheer I see things from my position and nothings taken offensively.

[Ijustwannateach]

^There was a bit of the same sort of stereotyping with gay men ("Are you a king or a queen?") which has only recently started to fade. Thais *do* have a bit of a problem thinking outside the gender boxes (although all societies seem to have this same problem)- it's just that the Thais have a few more mainstream boxes to play with than most Western societies.

Thanks for a lovely post! It's nice to hear from the women here, too.

"Steven"

[fits and starts]

To me it's very simple, most Thais are accepting of Gays and Lesbians as long as it's not their son or daughter.

That said PB seems to have a facination about how many of his students are gay. Teenagers can be gay today and straight tomorrow. They are exploring their sexuality.

A bit off topic but can I ask PB and IJWT, do your students know you are gay?

Mine suspect and of course there are many rumours about me , how Thais love to gossip, but I deliberately teach at an all girls school so it's not a problem.

[Ijustwannateach]

My sexuality is no business of my students- whether straight or gay. I've never had a conversation with a student about my personal life.

As for my students, it's fun to speculate about some of them. With some, it's pretty obvious. But I don't share these speculations with anyone at work for the same kind of reason- it's not anyone's business. A fellow teacher (a woman) put it well, I think: "My students have no genitals."

But we are getting a bit

I do know that the obviously gay male students in my classes are well and truly popular among the girls, at least, and don't seem to get bothered by the boys.

"Steven"

[Tyree D.]

My sexuality is no business of my students- whether straight or gay.  I've never had a conversation with a student about my personal life.

As for my students, it's fun to speculate about some of them.  With some, it's pretty obvious.  But I don't share these speculations with anyone at work for the same kind of reason- it's not anyone's business.  A fellow teacher (a woman) put it well, I think:  "My students have no genitals."

But we are getting a bit

I do know that the obviously gay male students in my classes are well and truly popular among the girls, at least, and don't seem to get bothered by the boys.

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

this thread is still alive? I saw two M3 girls kiss today, and two others laying together on the desks in an unoccupied classroom...a teacher was there. I went to them so when they opened their eyes they would see me and get spooked for a second. The girl in the front just turned around into the other girl's breasts. I thought that was cool.

All my students know I'm straight and prefer older women. Oh yeah, I was indirectly told to stop (sniff) kissing the katoeys. That was funny. All the students would howl and the ladyboy would either blush or like it. One did punch me.

[Ijustwannateach]

Um, what was that topic again?

[Tyree D.]

Um, what was that topic again?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Do you truly accept your gay students?"

[ChrisP]

I do think the student questions are related to the Original Topic..

But this story is a bit off-topic - sorry!

I teach Theatre Design in a Univ in California - a Theatre Dept. I think out of 26 faculty 2 of us are openly gay.. I was somehow expecting more in a THEATRE dept!

I am out to my students.. they have no problem with it (although some girls never quite get it...)

I sometimes do a "Inside the Actors Studio" session (based on a TV program) where the students can ask me ANY question about my career, life, etc.

So, several years ago (when I was in a LTR) I'm sat on a stool in my class of Undergraduates, the students are asking me lots of questions about my design life, career, contracts, etc.

Then, one girl, who was always sat on the floor centre, looking up at me at the front of the class, said "Are you married..?'

I said, "Well, actually I am married - I'm married to a man.."

There were several audible "ohhhh"s of disappointment coming from the girls.. I tried to ignore it, and said "Why do you ask..?" and the girls all said "Because we think you're such a hottie..!)

Then a male voice piped up at the back.. "We think you're not bad either, sir!"

REALLY good for your ego!

ChrisP

[fits and starts]

The things students say just to get a good grade!

[PeaceBlondie]

To me it's very simple, most Thais are accepting of Gays and Lesbians as long as it's not their son or daughter.

That said PB seems to have a facination about how many of his students are gay. Teenagers can be gay today and straight tomorrow. They are exploring their sexuality.

A bit off topic but can I ask PB and IJWT, do your students know you are gay?

Mine suspect and of course there are many rumours about me , how Thais love to gossip, but I deliberately teach at an all girls school so it's not a problem.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

fits and starts, I'm a man of many varied experiences, and the title of this thread related directly to what I did full time in Thailand for the last two years. As a gay man, of course I've got more interest in the subject than almost anybody except a homophobe, but I don't think it's a 'fascination.' As my best student lay dying, he tried to get me to say whether I was gay. I wouldn't say. Since he was a critical thinker and a genius, he's the only one who ever asked.