"oil" Or "oy"?

[Mr. Farang]

I agree with Bambi :-)

But keep in mind, that, as I said earlier, English-Thai transcription is debated even between Thai academics.... even Thai universities disagee!!!

Edited September 17, 2005 by Mr. Farang

[BambinA]

http://www.royin.go.th/roman-translate.html

The Royal Institue

how to spell thai in foriegn word

(TH language)

Edited September 17, 2005 by BambinA

[gintOnic]

True, one Thai told me to use the garuun and another said not to, listened to the 2nd one for no particular reason.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

tywais, I am sure you already know any letter having garun will give no sound in Thai. So if your name is spelled as ไมเคิล์ - well since ล์ makes no sounds so it doesn't matter to have it or not. If we remove ไม from your name and just give only เคิ to your Thai friends, ask them if they can read.

The only reason Thai can read ไมเคิล์ , it is not because it is spelled correctly but it is only because they 'know' this name.

The same thing when you see Sukhumvit or Sukumvit or Sukhumvid - no matter how they are spelled still you know which road is mentioned and it is สุขุมวิท

Hope I make some senses to you

gintOnic

Edited September 17, 2005 by gintonic

[Tywais]

I  totally agree with  ginTonic ...

well  from  THE Royal Instution (of TH)

Rhodes = โรดส์

Michael = ไมเคิล

IMHO ,  even  we  try  to spell TH script  for  '''Foreign word'''  it still make a  prob  when  THais  pronouce..

Better .. you guys farang should  pronouce  that word for  TH when  you wanna explain

example

OIL spell as ออยล์   pronouce in  TH = oi/oy ออย but  the correct sound from farang is 'ออย-เอล'   

FIRE spell as ไฟร์   pronouce in  TH =  Fai ไฟร์but  the correct sound from farang is 'ไฟ-เออะ'

Thank you Bambi, will leave my business cards as they are and as suggested pronounce my name for them. Have to do that even when written in English, half the time I'm Michelle

[Tywais]

True, one Thai told me to use the garuun and another said not to, listened to the 2nd one for no particular reason.

tywais, I am sure you already know any letter having garun will give no sound in Thai. So if your name is spelled as ไมเคิล์ - well since ล์ makes no sounds so it doesn't matter to have it or not. If we remove ไม from your name and just give only เคิ to your Thai friends, ask them if they can read.

I don't disagree entirely with what you said but my understanding is the garun has multiple uses. One, it silences the last consonant in a Thai word and second, it indicates a foreign word with a pronouncable consonant at the end.

[Mr. Farang]

At least I don't argue with Thais about their own language. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, Thais disgree with Thais about their own language. And Thais make plenty of mistakes. Perhaps you should go get a bit of formal education and make a contribution to the topic.

As I said, I only agree with Bambi because I deferred to her earlier, because "Micheal" can be transcribed in more ways than one.

True, one Thai told me to use the garuun and another said not to, listened to the 2nd one for no particular reason.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

tywais, I am sure you already know any letter having garun will give no sound in Thai. So if your name is spelled as ไมเคิล์ - well since ล์ makes no sounds so it doesn't matter to have it or not. If we remove ไม from your name and just give only เคิ to your Thai friends, ask them if they can read.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't disagree entirely with what you said but my understanding is the garun has multiple uses. One, it silences the last consonant in a Thai word and second, it indicates a foreign word with a pronouncable consonant at the end.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, hence the confusion. English-Thai transcription is not "perfect" and there is no single "right answer" on difficult words. "Micheal" is a bit difficult. I would use gaaran as the ending sound for "Law Ling" is "N" not "L" and the word is English. Others can do as they please. On-line transcribers like the one Bambi pointed us to is not always correct either.

Edited September 17, 2005 by Mr. Farang

[gintOnic]

Thank you Bambi, will leave my business cards as they are and as suggested pronounce my name for them.  Have to do that even when written in English, half the time I'm Michelle 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is a note to Bambi

I don't understand why tywais doesn't believe when I told him to keep his card as ไมเคิล but now when you said 'I totally agree with gintonic' tywais then feel relieves to leave his name card the way it is??

So I should thanks Bambina to support me then?

gintOnic

Edited September 17, 2005 by gintonic

[BambinA]

Thank you Bambi, will leave my business cards as they are and as suggested pronounce my name for them.  Have to do that even when written in English, half the time I'm Michelle 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

heheh..but dont expect much .. methinks 50% of people will call u as Mai-kle (with fantastic tongue " L " ) and 50% will call you Mai- Kle (with fantastic tongue " N ")

anyhow Michelle with "double L" u can use garuun as มิเชลล์ mi-chell

Bambi

[BambinA]

Thank you Bambi, will leave my business cards as they are and as suggested pronounce my name for them.  Have to do that even when written in English, half the time I'm Michelle 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is a note to Bambi

I don't understand why tywais doesn't believe when I told him to keep his card as ไมเคิล but now when you said 'I totally agree with gintonic' tywais then feel relieves to leave his name card the way it is??

So I should thanks Bambina to support me then?

gintOnic

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Love gintonic

actually Gin is better in Eng 'n Thai lang than me... i know she well ..and for more info. she has more IQ score than me ..heheheh

< gintonic

<Bambi

[Tywais]

Thank you Bambi, will leave my business cards as they are and as suggested pronounce my name for them.  Have to do that even when written in English, half the time I'm Michelle 

This is a note to Bambi

I don't understand why tywais doesn't believe when I told him to keep his card as ไมเคิล but now when you said 'I totally agree with gintonic' tywais then feel relieves to leave his name card the way it is??

So I should thanks Bambina to support me then?

gintOnic

Relax. I am following one post at a time as they arrive. The initial feeling was to use it but when "two" Thais on here said not to, then I will rely upon them. I don't feel "relieved" in any way, I am just a perfectionist that want's to get it right. So if you feel left out, thank you too gintOnic.

[gintOnic]

Love gintonic     

actually  Gin is  better  in Eng 'n Thai lang  than me... i know  she well ..and  for  more info. she  has  more IQ  score than me ..heheheh 

  < gintonic

  <Bambi

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bambi, stop being nice - you are turning me into a bad person now!

I don't feel "relieved" in any way, I am just a perfectionist that want's to get it right. So if you feel left out, thank you too gintOnic. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay, so I feel 'relieve' now

gintOnic

[gintOnic]

By the way, hey Bambi guess what - I just realize I become an 'advanced member' now .. maybe because of many posts in this topic hehe

gintOnic

[BambinA]

By the way, hey Bambi guess what - I just realize I become an 'advanced member' now .. maybe because of many posts in this topic hehe  

gintOnic 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

kri kri kri

Bambi

[Mr. Farang]

Just one more point... I have not said that you have no right to discuss this, but rather that I don't think you should disagree with a native speaker, I just find it a little arrogant..

But as you say Mai Bpen Rai...

totster 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

English-Thai transcription requires formal training in both English and Thai, not being a native Thai speakers. There are lots of native Thai speakers who cannot transcribe English-to-Thai.

And, as you yourself indicated in an earlier post, even expert transcribers disagree and debate in may situations, Thai and Farang alike.

Many years ago, the lead abbot of a Thai temple asked me to teach Buddhism to Thai people, telling the entire temple that "this one Farang" understood Buddhist thinking more than most of the Thai people, citing me as an example of how Thai should "learn more". I recall how I was very embarrassed (not proud, but concerned for the Thais and their feelings). I recall how that "sermon" made a few Thais not so happy, as it was not fun for them to have their elder, senior monk use a Farang as an example of a Buddhist to "look up to."

My point is that, you cannot judge anyone based on race, nationality, religion, national origin, color, or creed - and it is a mistake to think that Thais, because they are Thai, are complete world experts on English-Thai transcription and that others cannot offer an opinion in an area they are formally trained. Open your mind and do not "attach" to such narrow, unskillful views.

And take good care of your self, na krap.

[Mr. Farang]

//<snip - RDN

I defered to Bambi because Bambi has transcribed English-Thai names on ThaiVisa and those transciptions were excellent. I searched posts for gintOnics on this topic and did not find any examples of English-Thai transcriptions. I found a lot of jokes and funny topics.

As I mentioned, I deferred to Bambi. ITo be perfectly frank, I still do not agree with Bambi or GinOtonic that the English-Thai transcription of "Micheal" should end with "Law Ling" wthout gaaran. This spelling is against every Thai textbook I have and against how I was instructed by senior Buddhist monks.

//<snip> RDN

As I have posted at least 4 times in this topic, the well known fadt that even Thais of high education do not agree on this topic. Even TG airways cannot get it right on their in-flight magazine. It has nothing to do with emotions, discrimination, anger, hate, bias, girl, boy, Thai, Farang, it is just a topic of interest - English-Thai transcription and use use of gaaran. I also posted a copy of a textbook excerpt from a Thai offfical site for people who might "really want" to learn.

Personally, if I was going to spell "Micheal" in Thai, I would do this:

"Sara Aye" "Maw Maa" "Kaw Kai" "Sara Ah" "Law Ling" "Gaaran"...

Pronounced in Thai, knowing it is a E-T transcription, Mikal, because without the gaaran it is "Mikan"... per every textbook. You can't rely on on-line translaters like Bambi did, to be honest. I might even use:

"Sara Aye" "Maw Maa" "Kaw Kai" "Sara Ahhh" "Law Ling" "Gaaran"...

Mikaal

This was an "academic discussion" and race, gender, Thai, Farang, brown, white, yellow, does not matter. Everyone who tries to "do their homework" and "add value" contributes to everyone...... not flames, quips, and "white knight" bold "rescuese"... lving out some "save the Thai girl in the classroom fantasy"......

It is mostly Farangs that are "kee noi jai" here ... not Thais. ..... I deferred to Bambi because I don't care to discuss this topic, personally, for weeks, the English-Thai transcrption of the English name "Micheal"..... because there is not only one "right answer"..... and I am sure if I speak to other Thais outslde of this forum, and ask them to spell "Micheal" I will get another answer, laughing out loud. As for me, I would spell "Micheal"

"Sara Aye" "Maw Maa" "Kaw Kai" "Sara Ahhh" "Law Ling" "Gaaran"... or maybe even:

"Sara Aye" "Maw Maa" "Kaw Kai" "Sara Oue" "Law Ling" "Gaaran"...

(like Mikul).....

This, to me, these transcriptions are much more accurate becuase the technique I am using is not to try to transcribe the spelling, but the actual sound of the word... another possible technique that on-line systems do not do well.

Take Care, na Krap.

Edited September 17, 2005 by RDN

[Mr. Farang]

I still insist my question to Mr. Farang in my previous post - what make he thinks bambi is better in Thai than me? Making me more confused after hearing he said 'you cannot judge anyone based on race, nationality, religion, national origin, color, or creed '  If he doesn't know me then why he thinks someone is more qualified than me in giving an opinion on the question? Maybe just because bambi is a 'TV Queen'?   

gintOnic 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Gintonic,

I am pleased to answer your question. Sorry not to address it earlier. I searched your previous posts and did not find any example of your English-Thai transcriptions, that is all, nothing more.

But the main reason I agreed with Bambi is because I wanted to finish the discussion, as I don't really agree with either of you, laughing out loud. I now think I like:

"Sara Aye" "Maw Maa" "Kaw Kai" "Sara Ahhh" "Law Ling" "Gaaran"... or maybe even:

(Mikal)

or

"Sara Aye" "Maw Maa" "Kaw Kai" "Sara Oue" "Law Ling" "Gaaran"...

(like Mikul).....

OK?

PS: I see that Ginotonic often posts with Bambi's ID? , from a prior thread....

After all those written by me under bambi's ID -  I don't use those products to make me lighter though - I may wish to have whiter skin but I am not dying not having one.

Just like what df358 said, It is better to be fair, u can have a tan colour if u want, but not vice versa. 

gintOnic

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What's that all about? We certainly did not get two independent opinions did we now :-)

Edited September 17, 2005 by Mr. Farang

[loong]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Enuff already!!!!!!!

FIRE spell as ไฟร์ pronouce in TH = Fai ไฟร์but the correct sound from farang is 'ไฟ-เออะ'

Bambi, that is brilliant way to explain how to say "Fire"

Thanks for adding to my education

Any way, Thais should only say "oil" as Num-mahn and would save all the arguments

Anybody called Michael - Change you freaking name to something the Thais can say!!!

My name is Keith and I have no objection to being called Kit, Keet, Kiss, Loong Kit or whatever. It is certainly better than being called "Farang"

[Tywais]

Anybody called Michael - Change you freaking name to something the Thais can say!!!

Hey, I'm quite happy with my name! They (Thais) can say my name perfectly well, it's reading it that is the problem. However Mr. Farang can't seem to spell it. It's Michael not Micheal. Easy mistake, even my mom sometimes spells it wrong.

Strange how something simple got into a pssing match. Leave the egos at the bar where they belong and not TV.

[Mr. Farang]

However Mr. Farang can't seem to spell it. It's Michael not Micheal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Laughing out loud.

BTW, you might try a phonic spelling translation v. a direct transcription to make reading your name from Thai easier. The more I think about it, I like

"Sara Aye" "Maw Maa" "Kaw Kai" "Sara Oue" "Law Ling" "Gaaran"

Pronounced:

Mikul ..... (llike Michael)

This might help :-)

[Tywais]

BTW, you might try a phonic spelling translation v. a direct transcription to make reading your name from Thai easier.  The more I think about it, I like

"Sara Aye"  "Maw Maa"  "Kaw Kai" "Sara Oue" "Law Ling" "Gaaran"

Pronounced:

Mikul .....  (llike Michael)

This might help :-)

Like ไมเคูล์ or this ไมเคุล์ ? Does seem like that could work with or without the pronunciation of the last consonant it would come out pretty close. I'll toss it around at the office Monday and see what the secretaries think (good reason to talk with them)

[loong]

Anybody called Michael - Change you freaking name to something the Thais can say!!!

Hey, I'm quite happy with my name! They (Thais) can say my name perfectly well, it's reading it that is the problem. ............

Strange how something simple got into a pssing match. Leave the egos at the bar where they belong and not TV.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry Tywais, didn't mean to offend - it was meant to be a joke

Of course I didn't mean you should change your name.

Anyway, I say, spell it any way you're happy with and you will just have to accept that many Thais will not pronounce it properly

PS for Mr Farang

Laughing out loud

.

Please write lol, not the whole thing

Edited September 17, 2005 by loong

[Mr. Farang]

Like ไมเคูล์  or this ไมเคุล์ ?  Does seem like that could work with or without the pronunciation of the last consonant it would come out pretty close.  I'll toss it around at the office Monday and see what the secretaries think (good reason to talk with them)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was thinking like this (you are using "Kaw Kuart" v. "Kaw Kai" but that's OK :-) :

ไมคูล์ or this ไมคุล์

(you don't need the vowel เ์ to pronounce correctly above if you use the "u" sound. You only need two vowels, not three to say your first name.)

Either way, I envy your job at CMU. A "breathless occupation" in the North...

Edited September 17, 2005 by Mr. Farang

[Tywais]

Sorry Tywais, didn't mean to offend - it was meant to be a joke

Of course I didn't mean you should change your name.

Anyway, I say, spell it any way you're happy with and you will just have to accept that many Thais will not pronounce it properly

No offense taken. I wasn't snipping at you but at the negative position the thread had taken.

[loong]

No offense taken. I wasn't snipping at you but at the negative position the thread had taken

Same here, I was trying to be ironic (please don't anyone start on me if I've used the word ironic out of context)

[Mr. Farang]

PS for Mr Farang

Laughing out loud

.

Please write lol, not the whole thing

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the advise, but I always write "laughing out loud" and never LOL... it is my personal style - I stopping using "LOL" or "lol" 4-5 years ago, bored with it.

Thanks anyway

Edited September 17, 2005 by Mr. Farang

[Tywais]

Like ไมเคูล์  or this ไมเคุล์ ?  Does seem like that could work with or without the pronunciation of the last consonant it would come out pretty close.  I'll toss it around at the office Monday and see what the secretaries think (good reason to talk with them)

I was thinking like this (you are using "Kaw Kuart" v. "Kaw Kai" but that's OK :-) :

ไมคูล์ or this ไมคุล

(you don't need the vowel เ์ to pronounce correctly above if you use the "u" sound. You only need two vowels, not three to say your first name.)

Either way, I envy your job at CMU. A "breathless occupation" in the North...

Got it now. Edited too fast and forgot to remove the เ . I think it will be fun to ask a whole range of Thais at CMU - secretaries, undergraduates, graduates, technicians and ajarns using all combinations mentioned in this thread to see what the consensus is.

[Mr. Farang]

Like ไมเคูล์  or this ไมเคุล์ ?  Does seem like that could work with or without the pronunciation of the last consonant it would come out pretty close.  I'll toss it around at the office Monday and see what the secretaries think (good reason to talk with them)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was thinking like this (you are using "Kaw Kuart" v. "Kaw Kai" but that's OK :-) :

ไมคูล์ or this ไมคุูล์

(you don't need the vowel เ์ to pronounce correctly above if you use the "u" sound. You only need two vowels, not three to say your first name.)

Either way, I envy your job at CMU. A "breathless occupation" in the North...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Got it now. Edited too fast and forgot to remove the เ . I think it will be fun to ask a whole range of Thais at CMU - secretaries, undergraduates, graduates, technicians and ajarns using all combinations mentioned in this thread to see what the consensus is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

BTW: I edited my post to put the gaaran in both forms above. For some reason, it "flew the coup"...... when I was doing the cut-and-paste thing.

Cheers!

Edited September 17, 2005 by Mr. Farang

[Tywais]

BTW:  I edited my post to put the gaaran in both forms above.  For some reason, it "flew the coup"...... when I was doing the cut-and-paste thing.

Cheers!

Thai keyboards have a habit of doing that Don't say "coup" too loud or we might see another bird flu thread starting

[yoot]

Wow! It seems this topic is so hot.

As for being a Thai and not really good at English but good at Thai enough to know how to transliterate some common English names to Thai in the proper spelling for Thais. I would like to point out something. The problem of a very well educated Farang to transliterate English words to Thai is combining English rules to Thai rules. You can't transliterate to Thai in the same way as it's pronounced in English. You have to transliterate it in the way as it's written in English and make sense to read in Thai.

Like the name " Michael " - มิคาเอล or ไมเคิล(ไม-เคิ่น low tone). Both are the correct transliteration of this name. No ga-run on ล because it makes no sense for Thais to read these words with ga-run on it.

For the better idea of this name try to search on the google site in various spelling.

For example; Michael Schumacher, you would see this name was transliterated in both ไมเคิล ชูมัคเกอร์ or มิคาเอล ชูมัคเกอร์, without ga-run on both of them.

Edited September 17, 2005 by yoot

[RDN]

Wow!  It seems this topic is so hot.  ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, I only wanted to raise a smile or two about my g/f and "Oil". Or "Oy". Whatever.

Next subject... "How to write 'Roger' in Thai."

I write it: โรเจอร์

Any arguments?