Thai Opposition Lawmakers Blame PM Abhisit For CentralWorld Fire

[animatic]

Sprinkler systems are usually fed from a large tank on the roof. So as not to be dependent on water mains and the like in the early stages of a blaze. I wonder which group wanting water badly might have drained the sprinkler tanks???

If the sprinkler system is fed from a tank on the roof, would that explain why there were supposedly two fires? After the first fire was lit, the sprinklers went off and doused most of the flames, but not all of them. The water ran out, and the remaining flames kicked off the "second" fire.

Or it was reignited manually, because the sprinklers put out the 1st fire. Now of course if the water had been drained off to quench red protestors thirsts, then there likely would not be enough to put out several intentionally lit blazes.

Edited March 18, 2011 by animatic

[rubl]

...

Jatuporn denied the accusation, saying that although he and Khattiya differed over some matters, he would never resort to violence, as he would never even kill a "cat, chicken or fish".

Jatuporn then accused Suthep of being a "blatant liar", something Suthep also accused Jatuporn of being, and a "serial killer", adding that one day Suthep and Abhisit would be tried for ordering the killing of 91 people.

"I have a [red-shirt] gathering tomorrow, and if people believe Suthep they will not show up. If they believe Suthep, they will vote for Suthep and the Democrat Party," he said.

In a related development, the Pheu Thai Party has resorted to using Twitter to disseminate a number of video clips forbidden from being presented to the House's censure debate. They can be seen at www.ptp.or.th and www.twitter.com/pheuthaiparty.

[thenation][/thenation]

Edited March 18, 2011 by rubl

[animatic]

They really must think everyone else is as stupid as they are.....

Unfortunately, many many of the voting public are just that.

I prefer to think of many as under-educated, which is not their fault. But not necessarily unintelligent. Versus those with a college education, that they purchased a passing grade for, and are nearly as stupid as when they started it, but THINK they are smarter.

Edited March 18, 2011 by animatic

[Buchholz]

...

"I have a [red-shirt] gathering tomorrow

Ah yes, mustn't forget it's time again for the Weekly Red Shirt Rally in Bangkok tomorrow.

Another "unprecedented" one, perhaps?

[rubl]

...

"I have a [red-shirt] gathering tomorrow

Ah yes, mustn't forget it's time again for the Weekly Red Shirt Rally in Bangkok tomorrow.

Another "unprecedented" one, perhaps?

Maybe, the 'gathering' starts 12:00 if I remember correctly. That's AFTER the 09:30 vote in Parliament tomorrow morning. Probably all happy faces during the gathering. Democracy will have been seen to work

Edited March 18, 2011 by rubl

[gemini81]

get real opposition party! Are they trying to discredit themselves?

[jdinasia]

...

Jatuporn denied the accusation, saying that although he and Khattiya differed over some matters, he would never resort to violence, as he would never even kill a "cat, chicken or fish".

Jatuporn then accused Suthep of being a "blatant liar", something Suthep also accused Jatuporn of being, and a "serial killer", adding that one day Suthep and Abhisit would be tried for ordering the killing of 91 people.

"I have a [red-shirt] gathering tomorrow, and if people believe Suthep they will not show up. If they believe Suthep, they will vote for Suthep and the Democrat Party," he said.

In a related development, the Pheu Thai Party has resorted to using Twitter to disseminate a number of video clips forbidden from being presented to the House's censure debate. They can be seen at www.ptp.or.th and www.twitter.com/pheuthaiparty.

[thenation][/thenation]

Can we assume from Jatuporn's own words that the people that don't show up believe Suthep? That will be 99.997% of the country that won't be at his rally tmw

[asiawatcher]

Thai politics has no credibility when it can allow such ridiculous accusations to be made. Anyone in their right frame of mind knows the results of the red rallies were simply due to the red rally. These accusers trying to 'energise' their blind, mindless followers to believe everything they say are simply low lifes with no credibility.

[Oberkommando]

its all fruit of the same poisoned tree

if there were no reds illegally and violently protesting it would not have happened

no reds, no deaths, no fires, no problem..............

If there were no yellows there would have been no reds.

Etc, etc, etc.

[GeorgeO]

Concerning the fire at CentralWorld and other places in the area, then at the time the Government had cut of all water and power for the whole area which eventually would hamper the functioning of the automatic fire extinguishing systems in place, no pumps to keep pressure off water...no fresh supply of water...this would lead to inefficient or non functioning of extinguishing systems and fires could spread easily...so maybe it is in place to blame at least some part of it at the Government ... who made the fire in the first place .. no idea that is for the Police and investigators to find out and prove ..;-)

If I set fire to my house (accidentally or intentionally) and the fire service takes longer than usual to arrive, can I blame "some part of it" at the fire service?

Can I <deleted>.

Not same thing...at all..;-)

Sorry, but within any jurisdiction with a credible legal system, the point made by Insight is very valid.

According to the "but for" rule, there would have been no repercussions from the act of turning off the water supply in an attempt to disperse illegal trespassers and protestors. The lack of water supply would not have mattered, but for the arson attacks that started the blaze in the first place.

This argument, that the government is partly to blame, would not stand up in any other jurisdiction in the world.

[ginjag]

its all fruit of the same poisoned tree

if there were no reds illegally and violently protesting it would not have happened

no reds, no deaths, no fires, no problem..............

If there were no yellows there would have been no reds.

Etc, etc, etc.

ALL the red and yellow sour crabapples want squashing into pulp and made into cider.......All this Bullsh#t that Thailand cannot afford to have...............Its a pity there is no one that can overrule the army, and tell them to protect the country, instead of holding back the P.M. from carrying out the things he believes in. Then you have the private ELITE with fingers in all pies, stirring up trouble, and dragging the country down by gathering as much money as they can muster, leaving the 85 per cent in the doldrums. The bib can get away with vast corruption, Most places are run with elected Hi So's for monetory gain...the list goes on and on, and as for crator gob accusing the P.M. of all is a NUTTER, he wants his brain sorted/ but thats not possible.

[timekeeper]

its all fruit of the same poisoned tree

if there were no reds illegally and violently protesting it would not have happened

no reds, no deaths, no fires, no problem..............

If there were no yellows there would have been no reds.

Etc, etc, etc.

i don't recall the yellows burning the airport, killing police, soldiers and civilians

seems to me that their protest was so much more civilized.........

Edited March 19, 2011 by timekeeper

[jackr]

Anything and everything these chumps say should be flushed straight down the toilet.

[SomTumTiger]

Of course the reds started the fires. This isn't up for debate. They started ALL the fires. There were about 30, at many buildings, and they did them systematically once they scattered from the rally site. Its fun watching the PTP death spiral. I love it.

[SomTumTiger]

its all fruit of the same poisoned tree

if there were no reds illegally and violently protesting it would not have happened

no reds, no deaths, no fires, no problem..............

If there were no yellows there would have been no reds.

Etc, etc, etc.

i don't recall the yellows burning the airport, killing police, soldiers and civilians

seems to me that their protest was so much more civilized.........

Except for the paid Thaksin thugs who tossed grenades at the yellow periodically. Yellows are idiots, but the red violent wing are the villians here.

[hammered]

Sutheps speech yesterday was generally seen as the performance of the day. Of course that doesnt alter facts or anything, but this whole thing is mainly about belief anyway. The reds (not necessarily everyone in PTP) try to make the rural poor believe every death and every fore was caused by the other side. The government try to say the fires and some of the deaths were caused by the reds, while the army wont even go that far. Takes your pick in what you want to believe, but dont think anyone is telling the total truth.

[webfact]

Related topic:

AFP: Thai PM Abhisit wins no-confidence vote: speaker

Follow this link:

[Oberkommando]

i don't recall the yellows burning the airport, killing police, soldiers and civilians

seems to me that their protest was so much more civilized.........

When the government tried to remove them from Government House they immediately got violent and attacked Police.

There was no attempt to remove them from the airport or you would have seen violence. I was there during the closure and during the occupation and there were plenty of thugs spoiling for a fight.

Red and yellow; two cheeks of the same ar*e.

But my point which seems to have been missed by posters desperately trying to prove one group is better than another group was that the yellow shirts and the authorities inaction set a precedent and that is so evident with continued protests from all sides over two years later.

[SomTumTiger]

But my point which seems to have been missed by posters desperately trying to prove one group is better than another group

Pot - Kettle - Black

From the man who uses a Nazi military rank as his moniker.

[rixalex]

But my point which seems to have been missed by posters desperately trying to prove one group is better than another group was that the yellow shirts and the authorities inaction set a precedent and that is so evident with continued protests from all sides over two years later.

Anybody familiar with your history of posts will know full well that desperately trying to prove one group is better than the other precisely describes your position.

If both sides are as bad as each other, as you would like us to believe is your opinion, why for the past however many years, have you only ever staunchly and continuously defended one of them?

[Pi Sek]

i don't recall the yellows burning the airport, killing police, soldiers and civilians

seems to me that their protest was so much more civilized.........

When the government tried to remove them from Government House they immediately got violent and attacked Police.

There was no attempt to remove them from the airport or you would have seen violence. I was there during the closure and during the occupation and there were plenty of thugs spoiling for a fight.

Red and yellow; two cheeks of the same ar*e.

But my point which seems to have been missed by posters desperately trying to prove one group is better than another group was that the yellow shirts and the authorities inaction set a precedent and that is so evident with continued protests from all sides over two years later.

Really? So was I. I also witnessed a handful - a subjective view could describe this number as "plenty" - of "thugs spoiling for a fight", as you would find in any crowd anywhere. Also, the precedent of a protest and authorities' inaction was not set in 2007. It was set a long time before that.

However, to provide another example of what you correctly state is an ongoing problem (from just 1 month before the PAD's Govt House occupation - 24th July 2008), Kwanchai Praiphana incited by radio a group of Udon red shirts to attack a peaceful PAD rally (really - it was a peaceful rally, too) with weapons such swords & axes, clubs and catupults. There were 1,000 "Khon Rak Udon" red shirt members and 500 police refused to intervene. About 40 people got injured, some of them quite seriously. Witnesses said some 500 police and local defence volunteers made no effort to stop the violence or make arrests - and "police stood idly by while the attacks occurred" according to HRW, although I don't hold much stock in what they have to say. On the Youtube video I saw, though, the police were clearly waiting for the Khon Rak Udon to finish beating a seriously injured man before calling for medical assistance. He let the Red Shirt hit a prone, bleeding and seemingly unconscious man 3 or 4 times with a metal stick before he "asked" the Red Shirt to stop. I heard of a death that day too, but I can't find anything to support that.

As for your point that "posters desperately trying to prove one group is better than another group", well I'm sorry but I have attained the same impression regarding your good self. Your above post is the first that I've seen that I've seen you say anything against the Red Shirts ("Red and yellow; two cheeks of the same ar*e"). Maybe I got it wrong, maybe my own blinkered bias and not your posts has put you in the same basket as all the other "khwai daeng" (yes, that's a horrible expression, and I'm only using it here to make a point that reds are generally heaped in the same basket, unfairly in my opinion) - but I don't think so. Don't get me wrong, I am biased - but not towards the PAD, although I certainly would suggest that their record of violence isn't quite as notable as their red counterparts.

Edited March 19, 2011 by Pi Sek

[spidermike007]

Vorawat is an absolute fool. The red shirts are ultimately to blame. The reality is that the demonstration completely got away from them. They lost control. They should be made to pay. But, the government should have had police posted in front of all of the major malls during that time, with a shoot to maim order, regarding any arsonists, or looters. And ultimately the responsibility lies with the owners of Central World. Why on earth would you not have armed guards, standing in front of the mall, during these days? Why would you not want to protect your billion dollar asset? That just does not make any sense to me.

[rixalex]

And ultimately the responsibility lies with the owners of Central World. Why on earth would you not have armed guards, standing in front of the mall, during these days? Why would you not want to protect your billion dollar asset? That just does not make any sense to me.

What would the armed guards have been armed with? Do you think that private security companies are allowed to give their staff anything more than truncheons and walkie talkies, because i don't.

And even supposing it was possible to arm them, who would be held responsible for their lives if thousands of red shirts overpowered them, as they easily did on a number of occasions with soldiers?

[Pi Sek]

One way to legally obtain a firearm license here is to own a gold/jewellery shop... there are plenty in CentralWorld, I think (not a favourite hang-out place of mine, so can't really say - but I'd imagine so).

[jdinasia]

One way to legally obtain a firearm license here is to own a gold/jewellery shop... there are plenty in CentralWorld, I think (not a favourite hang-out place of mine, so can't really say - but I'd imagine so).

I normally see police working as security at gold shops.

[rixalex]

One way to legally obtain a firearm license here is to own a gold/jewellery shop... there are plenty in CentralWorld, I think (not a favourite hang-out place of mine, so can't really say - but I'd imagine so).

I was under the impression that the armed chaps in uniform who seem permanently stationed at gold shops were in fact policemen who the gold shop owners had to pay the local police station to have sit at their place all day - much in the same way you can pay to have the police come by your property periodically to check all is well, and sign a bit of paper in a box on the wall.

[Just1Voice]

I am not supporting either Red or Yellow. I think both are misguided by people who are only out for their own personal gain. But for those who continue to believe the PAD was "non-violent", there are a number of videos on Youtube to show otherwise.

a - When PAD occupied Gvt House, the first thing they did was erect barricades and arm themselves with anything/everything the could get their hands on to use as a weapon. Since when do "peaceful protesters" do that?

b - two PAD on the back of a flat bed truck. One holds up a picture of HM while another shoots indiscriminately into the surrounding crowd with a pistol.

c - a number of PAD pull a taxi driver out of his cab, and while one man holds a large knife to the man's throat while he is on his knees, the others beat him.

d - PAD indiscriminately, and deliberately setting fire of a number of motorbikes parked at the curb.

e - And let's not forget the PAD member who blew himself up in a car loaded with explosives.

f - or the man who ran over and killed a policeman, but who received a suspended sentence from the court who said he only did it because he was "upset" and therefore he didn't mean to.

g - when they occupied the airport the PAD goons attacked police, taking some as prisoners and beating them before they finally released them.

h - they shot up police vehicles, smashed the windows and slashed the tires.

All of this information is readily available to anyone who wants to take the time to check it out.

As I said, I support neither group, but for those who persist in claiming PAD was non-violent, please wake up and smell the coffee.

[thaikahuna]

About the only things the man has not been accused of 'so far' the drought, cold spell, smog, etc. What he has accomplished according to the those who have/will have wasted 3 days of what could have valuable graft time, would indicate a influence never seen in the history of this country.

They must think he is George W. Bush.

I am sure that the opposition will take no responsibility for the thousands of people blocking a major piece of BKK real estate for several weeks.

There is no accountability and no responsibility for one's actions in this country.

Obama started the fire - LOL!!!

[jdinasia]

I am not supporting either Red or Yellow. I think both are misguided by people who are only out for their own personal gain. But for those who continue to believe the PAD was "non-violent", there are a number of videos on Youtube to show otherwise.

a - When PAD occupied Gvt House, the first thing they did was erect barricades and arm themselves with anything/everything the could get their hands on to use as a weapon. Since when do "peaceful protesters" do that?

b - two PAD on the back of a flat bed truck. One holds up a picture of HM while another shoots indiscriminately into the surrounding crowd with a pistol.

c - a number of PAD pull a taxi driver out of his cab, and while one man holds a large knife to the man's throat while he is on his knees, the others beat him.

d - PAD indiscriminately, and deliberately setting fire of a number of motorbikes parked at the curb.

e - And let's not forget the PAD member who blew himself up in a car loaded with explosives.

f - or the man who ran over and killed a policeman, but who received a suspended sentence from the court who said he only did it because he was "upset" and therefore he didn't mean to.

g - when they occupied the airport the PAD goons attacked police, taking some as prisoners and beating them before they finally released them.

h - they shot up police vehicles, smashed the windows and slashed the tires.

All of this information is readily available to anyone who wants to take the time to check it out.

As I said, I support neither group, but for those who persist in claiming PAD was non-violent, please wake up and smell the coffee.

a) erecting barricades -- not violent, Weapons? Defensive? Since when? Often Why? See Sept 2008 when they were attacked by the reds at Gov't house. See the multiple dates they were grenaded.

Your charicterization of "shooting indescriminately into crowds? False. Firing upon when attacked is more accurate. The guy should rot in jail, but he would probably get off on self-defense due to grenades over the previous weeks.

c) please document

d) please document

e) speculation on your part, please document that he wasn't murdered by a car bomb.

f) patently false -- crazed loon hit a cop not killed a cop

g) document the claims of beatings

h document shooting up police vehicles.

I don't know anyone that claims the PAD were entirely peaceful/non-violent. People say that by comparison to the reds that the PAD was relatively peaceful/less violent.

[animatic]

I am not supporting either Red or Yellow. I think both are misguided by people who are only out for their own personal gain. But for those who continue to believe the PAD was "non-violent", there are a number of videos on Youtube to show otherwise.

a - When PAD occupied Gvt House, the first thing they did was erect barricades and arm themselves with anything/everything the could get their hands on to use as a weapon. Since when do "peaceful protesters" do that?

b - two PAD on the back of a flat bed truck. One holds up a picture of HM while another shoots indiscriminately into the surrounding crowd with a pistol.

c - a number of PAD pull a taxi driver out of his cab, and while one man holds a large knife to the man's throat while he is on his knees, the others beat him.

d - PAD indiscriminately, and deliberately setting fire of a number of motorbikes parked at the curb.

e - And let's not forget the PAD member who blew himself up in a car loaded with explosives.

f - or the man who ran over and killed a policeman, but who received a suspended sentence from the court who said he only did it because he was "upset" and therefore he didn't mean to.

g - when they occupied the airport the PAD goons attacked police, taking some as prisoners and beating them before they finally released them.

h - they shot up police vehicles, smashed the windows and slashed the tires.

All of this information is readily available to anyone who wants to take the time to check it out.

As I said, I support neither group, but for those who persist in claiming PAD was non-violent, please wake up and smell the coffee.

Most only think PAD was significantly LESS violent, not totally non-violent. But then PAD became more violent by reaction to repeated violent attack against them, by Thaksin's street arm of his political machine.

If any group gets attacked long enough and hard enough, it will appear more militant by the necessary self defense posture it must adopt. Several of the incidents listed above were direct reactions to being attacked by opposition thugs.

I think PAD since then has utterly lost the plot, but if we look at the inter-locking picture it's easy enough to see WHY they also became more agressive over time.

Edited March 19, 2011 by animatic