Leave Usa Retire Thailand. Next Passport Domicile?

[gk10002000]

To you american citizens that retired to Thailand. What did you do about your home state of residency? Do you no longer declare one? What do you put on the 1040? No state of residence? How about when you had to get a new passport? Does it now say Thailand is your permanent address?

I know Uncle Sam is going to try and tax all the applicable money he can, but I am wondering how the state would work. I would be an ex-Florida resident so state income tax is not an issue, but the idea of not having a state of residency interests me. Is that situation handled smoothly and easily?

Thanks

[Jingthing]

I file 1040 with a Thai address. If you mail in a physical return, there is a special address for expats. My last year in my old state, I filed a partial year state return and after that stopped filing state returns. People from no state tax states don't have to worry about getting bitten later. Others do, especially if you move back to the same state eventually.

Edited March 19, 2011 by Jingthing

[gk10002000]

I file 1040 with a Thai address. If you mail in a physical return, there is a special address for expats. My last year in my old state, I filed a partial year state return and after that stopped filing state returns. People from no state tax states don't have to worry about getting bitten later. Others do, especially if you move back to the same state eventually.

OK thanks. How about your passport? Since presumably you will no longer maintain a US driver's license as a form of photo ID, do you you now renew your US Passport using your out of country address?

[Jingthing]

I still keep a state driver's license. This could definitely bite me someday. My impression is that most US expats also do this. Technically, you shouldn't keep it or renew it if you are no longer resident. Yes, getting a new passport in Bangkok I would of course give the Thai address.

[mahjongguy]

- US passports don't contain an address, only your place of birth and the passport place of issue. The State Department doesn't care where you live, though it's wise to register your foreign address in their contacts database.

- When you file your 1040 you can list your foreign address or you can list a mail drop in the States. There is no big effect either way (except that you cannot e-file your taxes if you use a foreign address).

- Filing or not filing state taxes is not directly related to living overseas. It's kind of a complicated issue that depends on the laws of the state or states involved, whether or not you own property there, receive a state or municipal pension, and more. The majority of ex-pats have no need to file state tax returns but you will need to investigate the particular state(s) involved.

[retiredusn]

I would suggest a mail-forwarding service, I use this for tax/drivers lic/and all other items that come in handy. Keep a bank in the US also retirement in Thailand is good but Do Not cut all ties it may turn around and bite you in the A

[Jingthing]

except that you cannot e-file your taxes if you use a foreign address

TaxACT you can

[pauljones]

I find it handy to keep a US address using a relative to check my mail, pay an occasional bill.

Also, if you have investments you may need to keep a place there.

[longball53098]

I have been here 6 years now. The year after i moved here I cut all ties to my residence in Wisconsin,,,,,,,I sent my driver license back to the state offices, I also wrote a letter to the town registrar where I lived requesting to be removed from the records as a local resident and voter.

I submitted tax returns for the partial year I lived in the state and I have never been bothered by the state in any way since then.

I still maintain a bank account at the local bank branch of Chase bank and have voted absentee. My Fidelity accounts require showing my last state of residence when I draw funds but as I said no one from the state bothers me about anything.

Wisconsin state tax laws say if you do not reside in the state there is no requirement to file a return with them.

[craigt3365]

My friends from New York City got a mail drop in Las Vegas. It scans their mail and send them an image of it via email. The forwards it here if desired. No state tax in Nevada.

Will you be keeping a home in Florida?

[gk10002000]

My friends from New York City got a mail drop in Las Vegas. It scans their mail and send them an image of it via email. The forwards it here if desired. No state tax in Nevada.

Will you be keeping a home in Florida?

I currently am a contract engineer, and I work away from home 95% of the time. For the last 10 years, when a contract ended, I would not rush home by car or air, I would fly to Thailand and enjoy my time off. Head back to the states when I had the next contract. So jumping to Thailand is physically only a small extension of what I do now.

Since I am rarely home, but since it is important to keep a permanent domocile, and have an intent to retire in a state, I rent a small piece of a place in Florida. That costs me over $300 a month. I pay my cell phone bill out of there, get my mail there, register my car there etc.. Keeping that, avoids the mess of me re-registering my car, getting a new driver license, etc. every time I take a job in a new state. All straight up and legal. I rent from a relative. That arrangment probably will end soon, certainly won't last forever. That $300 a month is increasing. Not a big deal while I am working and pulling in the money I do. But when I punch out, that $300 a month + is measurable in the LOS.

As some have noted, there are reasons keeping some US presence can be handy. The occasional mail item that can be critical, financial instution dealings, Tax statements, 1099 DIVs, INTs, Bank statements, opening or changing accounts, and other things. Social Security seems to begrudgingly support expats. I guess Medicare won't do a thing from what I see.

My question about the passport was not about the address in the Passport. I know my passport doesn't have that, but the passport renewal process expects a residence somehwere. Do expats apply and not use a state address?

Thanks for the insights. It looks like when I do this, I need to think about the best and easiest way to keep a place in Florida. I am hoping to pick up a cheap place later this year while the prices are so depressed. Should be able to swing some sort of live-in rental that can maintain the place. Reliability is always an issue of course.

GK

[gk10002000]

I find it handy to keep a US address using a relative to check my mail, pay an occasional bill.

Also, if you have investments you may need to keep a place there.

yeah, I do a similar thing now. I don't see any way around not keeping some USA presence. As you know, there are things that make that very handy, almost necessary in a few cases. Sad that one can't do everything electronically in this day and age. I mean everything. The USA just doesn't get it. I wonder how people keep their RV legally registered as they drove all over the country and live out of it? I want to do the same thing but without the RV!

Thanks

[moe666]

Check your state rules on residency, where I live if you are out of the state for 6 months or more you do not pay income tax but still file a form.

[mahjongguy]

"My question about the passport was not about the address in the Passport. I know my passport doesn't have that, but the passport renewal process expects a residence somehwere."

If you apply to renew your passport at a foreign embassy, they ask for your local address but only in case you forget to return in two weeks to pick up the new one. You can provide a hotel or any other address.

"Do expats apply and not use a state address?"

All the time.

[jazzbo]

As long as you have a valid address and can fill out a USPS Form 1583, you can use a 'Private Mail Box' at a UPS Store, etc. as a legal address for IRS, voter registration, DL, banks, credit cards, etc. ... but you do need the underlying address but not necessarily your physical presence at that address ...

BTW I do that in Florida with my brother however I was a legal resident of Florida for 10+ years before moving lock, stock, and barrel to Thailand.

http://www.usps.com/..._pdf/ps1583.pdf

Edited March 20, 2011 by jazzbo

[craigt3365]

I find it handy to keep a US address using a relative to check my mail, pay an occasional bill.

Also, if you have investments you may need to keep a place there.

yeah, I do a similar thing now. I don't see any way around not keeping some USA presence. As you know, there are things that make that very handy, almost necessary in a few cases. Sad that one can't do everything electronically in this day and age. I mean everything. The USA just doesn't get it. I wonder how people keep their RV legally registered as they drove all over the country and live out of it? I want to do the same thing but without the RV!

Thanks

My parents were full time RV'ers for 8+ years. All they had was a PO box in Las Vegas that would forward their mail to them wherever they happened to be. They traveled from Alaska to way down in Mexico.

It's much easier now. I get almost all my mail electronically. I file taxes electronically. The only mail I really worry about now are notices from the IRS. That's pretty much all I get via snail mail now.

[lopburi3]

1. Passport re-newel you use your current address - it is sent to the Embassy for US nationals anyway.

2. Keeping driving license is not only legal but expected. My Florida DL has has my Bangkok address for the past 20 years and is renewed online to that address.

3. I also have voter registration at last address in Florida and that was done with my Bangkok address.

4. I have been using TaxAct to file 1040 online for the past decade using Bangkok address. What is handy is keeping a US bank account that tax payment/refunds can be sent from/to.

[jazzbo]

As per Post #16 a PO Box as in 'United States Post Office' Box can create complications these days as with most online registrations for legal / financial documents they will require a valid street address with a 9-digit Zip Code ... a 'Private Mail Box' or PMB at a mailing service is a different animal as the street address precedes the PMB info for 'look-up' purposes... requires USPS form 1583 as above.

I also have found handy a Florida area code telephone number via SKYPE in that it gives the US area code on caller ID -- even when activating credit cards that must be done from the 'home' telephone number... it rings on my computer and no one calling would suspect that I am here in Thailand and not in sunny FL.

BTW as per 1040 filing, I would quote (as per testimony of housekeeper) Leona Helmsley:

"We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes..."

Edited March 20, 2011 by jazzbo

[TacoBoy]

Many good ideas for US addresses from previous replies.

Think you can file a IRS Form if you are living/working outside the USA and not enter for more than a specified time per year. Think you are not exempt if you spend more than 30 days a year in the USA. Think you are exempt from Federal income taxes up to about 75-80 thousand dollars a year.

Check Magic Jack for internet VOIP telephone service with a USA telephone number. Similar to Vonage but cheaper and does work when you are traveling in or out of the USA.

[lopburi3]

Think you are exempt from Federal income taxes up to about 75-80 thousand dollars a year.

You are not exempt from tax.

[mahjongguy]

"Think you are exempt from Federal income taxes up to about 75-80 thousand dollars a year."

Whoa, hold on.

Yes, you may be exempt from Federal tax on that amount of income earned overseas. Emphasis on earned (as in wages).

There is no exemption on investment income (interest, dividends, capital gains) regardless of where they were earned except that you get a credit for taxes paid to (most) other countries.

[jazzbo]

Based upon being single under age 65, the IRS says anyone (who is not claimed as someone else's dependent) with a gross income less than $9,350 in 2010 is not required to file a 1040 unless you need to receive a refund of payments already made.

[mahjongguy]

Based upon being single under age 65, the IRS says anyone (who is not claimed as someone else's dependent) with a gross income less than $9,350 in 2010 is not required to file a 1040...

Hard to see how that could apply to anyone living legally in Thailand. Unless they spent the year as a guest of the Bangkok Hilton.

And speaking of Leona Helmsley, is there any famous quote of what she said when she was convicted of tax evasion?

[jazzbo]

1. What Mrs. Helmsley forgot was that there is a big difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion.

2. You only have to report income in the current year; one could easily be living on income that was properly reported to the IRS and taxes paid in prior years.

3. I believe Mrs. Helmsley said upon being convicted "Oh Shit!"

[mahjongguy]

You only have to report income in the current year; one could easily be living on income that was properly reported to the IRS and taxes paid in prior years.

Yes, and that would get you a year's permission to stay in Thailand, and as long as none of those savings was invested in a way to earn over the limit during this year then you wouldn't have to file for 2011, and then..

All unlikely to apply to most expats. Most of us can get past paying state taxes but that's about it.

P. S. This is a good time to mention: don't forget to file the form for having $10k or more in overseas accounts. Due no later than the end of June.

[jazzbo]

All unlikely to apply to most expats ... especially those without a good tax accountant.

[Jingthing]

2. Keeping driving license is not only legal but expected. My Florida DL has has my Bangkok address for the past 20 years and is renewed online to that address.

Be careful about overgeneralizing. Policies vary state by state. My former state, which I won't mention, makes you sign a form certifying you are a currently a state resident when RENEWING your state license. Obviously, it is not really legal or expected to renew in that state (and I reckon there are many like it, perhaps most) if you are no longer a resident.

Edited March 20, 2011 by Jingthing

[mahjongguy]

Since I don't want California getting the impression that I might be a resident, I was happy to let my DL expire, but only after I'd used it to get a Thai license (with which I can drive anywhere in America).

[mahjongguy]

... especially those without a good tax accountant.

The exact location of the line between avoidance and evasion is determined by the IRS. An accountant who errs may lose his license but it's the client who gets jailed. In fact, it was Capone's accountant who ratted him out.

[jazzbo]

Thanks for the reference to Al Capone ... I was recently audited by the IRS -- not for anything that has been mentioned here in this topic -- and everything is copacetic ... your concern for my well-being is appreciated.