Harris mingled with Tehran regime operative who promotes terrorism

[ThePoMoBro]

I've been self-studying Thai for about 6 months and I can write a bit, read a bit, and speak at a high-beginner level. I need lots of help listening/understanding and want to improve my conversation but I don't want to spend too much time learning to read and write.

I am busy all day every day so I can only take late afternoon and evening classes. I'm definitely on a budget and I need a school that will sponsor an ED visa as well. I'm in a bit of a hurry as my current visa is expiring imminently.

What schools should I look at in Chiang Mai?

[pjclark1]

Whalen opposite Gad Suan Gairw shopping Mall in Huay Gairw road (corner of the moat nearest Chiang Mai RAM hospital)

Does all the Ed VISA stuff.

Edited March 20, 2011 by pjclark1

[james24]

just out of interest how much is the course and is it actually any good..?

I gotta go back to Uk to get my non imm o next year but I could kill two birds with one stone, learn Thai well and get a visa...

Edited March 21, 2011 by james24

[ThePoMoBro]

I've been shopping around schools and sitting in on classes. I negotiated with a reputable school near the old city (don't want to say the name in a public post) for 180 hours of 2-person group lesson at 25,000/person. This would be 180 hours of lessons to be used within one year and it would qualify for an ED visa.

Anyone interested please contact me and we could talk more and lock this in. I'm only one person so far.

Otherwise, I'll still be looking at other schools (besides Walen) this week so if there are more suggestions, keep them coming. I plan to hit Payap and CMU tomorrow.

Edited March 23, 2011 by ThePoMoBro

[CMSteve]

Some thoughts from my own experiences..

Payap has a good reputation, but is one of the more costly schools.

CMU - cancelled classes(and Visas) on all of their language students last year

SeeTEFL - very likely to make the same deal you describe below.

Walen - was advised by a couple attending "You only have to goto the first class"

YMCA - no visa's offerred.

AUA - Just started to offer ED-Visa, but you're forced to start from the beginning.

there are also the church based, and Burmese based schools that offer " Cheap Visas".

There are others out there, and I'm sure others have heard differently. This is just my experiences.

I've been shopping around schools and sitting in on classes. I negotiated with a reputable school near the old city (don't want to say the name in a public post) for 180 hours of 2-person group lesson at 25,000/person. This would be 180 hours of lessons to be used within one year and it would qualify for an ED visa.

Anyone interested please contact me and we could talk more and lock this in. I'm only one person so far.

Otherwise, I'll still be looking at other schools (besides Walen) this week so if there are more suggestions, keep them coming. I plan to hit Payap and CMU tomorrow.

[ThePoMoBro]

double post

Edited March 24, 2011 by ThePoMoBro

[ThePoMoBro]

Do people really like Walen?

I went to a demo class and it seemed to contradict all the principle of modern foreign language learning. We were reading/reciting from a book and in two hours we never once spontaneously created a sentence or had a conversational exchange with the teacher. It doesn't really seem like "real-world" Thai but it's more modeled on how they teach English in Thai schools (eg "garunah touch the pencil" repeat x 2). To their credit, I'm sure I would improve my reading and writing very quickly.

The price is right, though...I just don't know if I'm totally flushing my money down the drain there as far as learning spoken Thai. Not trying to "bash" an advertiser here but I really want to be sold on this low-price option if someone can convince me it's worth my money.

Edited March 24, 2011 by ThePoMoBro

[richard10365]

Some thoughts from my own experiences..

Payap has a good reputation, but is one of the more costly schools.

CMU - cancelled classes(and Visas) on all of their language students last year

SeeTEFL - very likely to make the same deal you describe below.

Walen - was advised by a couple attending "You only have to goto the first class"

YMCA - no visa's offerred.

AUA - Just started to offer ED-Visa, but you're forced to start from the beginning.

there are also the church based, and Burmese based schools that offer " Cheap Visas".

There are others out there, and I'm sure others have heard differently. This is just my experiences.

I've been shopping around schools and sitting in on classes. I negotiated with a reputable school near the old city (don't want to say the name in a public post) for 180 hours of 2-person group lesson at 25,000/person. This would be 180 hours of lessons to be used within one year and it would qualify for an ED visa.

Anyone interested please contact me and we could talk more and lock this in. I'm only one person so far.

Otherwise, I'll still be looking at other schools (besides Walen) this week so if there are more suggestions, keep them coming. I plan to hit Payap and CMU tomorrow.

Actually, if you do the math and break down the cost per hour, Walens classes cost very near the same cost of Payap. However, for the way you want to study, go to Walen.

[pjclark1]

I've been shopping around schools and sitting in on classes. I negotiated with a reputable school near the old city (don't want to say the name in a public post) for 180 hours of 2-person group lesson at 25,000/person. This would be 180 hours of lessons to be used within one year and it would qualify for an ED visa.

Anyone interested please contact me and we could talk more and lock this in. I'm only one person so far.

Otherwise, I'll still be looking at other schools (besides Walen) this week so if there are more suggestions, keep them coming. I plan to hit Payap and CMU tomorrow.

If they aren't stating they can get you a visa entitlement, then it won't be possible.

I really really doubt that it would get you an ed visa.

A few months ago CMU had big problems getting people visas (I believe all people on their courses had their visas canceled) and dropped loads of people in it after taking their money, you would have to be crazy to hand them cash.

I've been to AUA, their teachers are old bags who seem to hate their students. I always thought Thai people were polite until I went on some courses there. Never again, you couldn't pay me to go there and be insulted by those teachers again.

I don't know how good Whalen is at teaching Thai, but they have a proven track record on Ed visa's and I know 2 people who are getting their visas through there at the moment.

Edited March 24, 2011 by pjclark1

[CMSteve]

An easier way to look at this is:

Both will provide you an ED visa, and both will have training in Thai.

If you are more concerned with getting a visa and not so concerned about what you'll learn, there are ProLanguage, Walen, SeeTEFL

If you are more concerned with learning Thai, there are Payap and AUA

If you want to pay for a class and visa and have it taken away from you, you may also consider CMU.(Please see other threads about CMU before considering this option!)

Don't fall for the "cost per hour breakdown" below. Payap offers 120 hours(2 courses) for ~20K. however this is intensive and will be completed within 3 months(90day visa). To get a 1 yr visa, you will have to take more terms. Walen offers 180hr for ~25K, but spreads it out over 1 yr. The program hours are not the same in any way.

Some thoughts from my own experiences..

Payap has a good reputation, but is one of the more costly schools.

CMU - cancelled classes(and Visas) on all of their language students last year

SeeTEFL - very likely to make the same deal you describe below.

Walen - was advised by a couple attending "You only have to goto the first class"

YMCA - no visa's offerred.

AUA - Just started to offer ED-Visa, but you're forced to start from the beginning.

there are also the church based, and Burmese based schools that offer " Cheap Visas".

There are others out there, and I'm sure others have heard differently. This is just my experiences.

I've been shopping around schools and sitting in on classes. I negotiated with a reputable school near the old city (don't want to say the name in a public post) for 180 hours of 2-person group lesson at 25,000/person. This would be 180 hours of lessons to be used within one year and it would qualify for an ED visa.

Anyone interested please contact me and we could talk more and lock this in. I'm only one person so far.

Otherwise, I'll still be looking at other schools (besides Walen) this week so if there are more suggestions, keep them coming. I plan to hit Payap and CMU tomorrow.

Actually, if you do the math and break down the cost per hour, Walens classes cost very near the same cost of Payap. However, for the way you want to study, go to Walen.

Edited March 24, 2011 by CMSteve

[richard10365]

Walen&Payap Difference.bmp

An easier way to look at this is:

Both will provide you an ED visa, and both will have training in Thai.

If you are more concerned with getting a visa and not so concerned about what you'll learn, there are ProLanguage, Walen, SeeTEFL

If you are more concerned with learning Thai, there are Payap and AUA

If you want to pay for a class and visa and have it taken away from you, you may also consider CMU.(Please see other threads about CMU before considering this option!)

Don't fall for the "cost per hour breakdown" below. Payap offers 120 hours(2 courses) for ~20K. however this is intensive and will be completed within 3 months(90day visa). To get a 1 yr visa, you will have to take more terms. Walen offers 180hr for ~25K, but spreads it out over 1 yr. The program hours are not the same in any way.

Some thoughts from my own experiences..

Payap has a good reputation, but is one of the more costly schools.

CMU - cancelled classes(and Visas) on all of their language students last year

SeeTEFL - very likely to make the same deal you describe below.

Walen - was advised by a couple attending "You only have to goto the first class"

YMCA - no visa's offerred.

AUA - Just started to offer ED-Visa, but you're forced to start from the beginning.

there are also the church based, and Burmese based schools that offer " Cheap Visas".

There are others out there, and I'm sure others have heard differently. This is just my experiences.

I've been shopping around schools and sitting in on classes. I negotiated with a reputable school near the old city (don't want to say the name in a public post) for 180 hours of 2-person group lesson at 25,000/person. This would be 180 hours of lessons to be used within one year and it would qualify for an ED visa.

Anyone interested please contact me and we could talk more and lock this in. I'm only one person so far.

Otherwise, I'll still be looking at other schools (besides Walen) this week so if there are more suggestions, keep them coming. I plan to hit Payap and CMU tomorrow.

Actually, if you do the math and break down the cost per hour, Walens classes cost very near the same cost of Payap. However, for the way you want to study, go to Walen.

Someone made a comment about Payap being very expensive. I was explaining that it is nearly the same as Walen if you look at the cost per hour. (See the attached file for more details) The way he wants to study is why I suggested he go to Walen. If you want to learn Thai, go to Payap. If your main concern is a visa, go to Walen.

[CMSteve]

I apologize for the harsh tone, but when you put it in a spreadsheet as attached people will get the wrong idea. Payap offers a 90 day visa with 120Hrs of study @ 20K

Walen offers 12month visa with 180hrs of study @ 25K. This does not take into account that you will study about the same amount at Payap in under 3 months in what Walen will stretch out for 1 yr.

Look at the same numbers another way:

180Hrs over 1yr works out to be 15Hrs a month - Walen

120Hrs over 3 Months works out to be 40Hrs a month - Payap

15Hrs a month compared to 40Hrs a month.

I whole heartedly believe that if you took a student that attended 1yr at Payap or AUA, and 1 student that attended 1 yr at Walen,Prolanguage,SeeTEFL, or the course previously offered by CMU, caeteris paribus, they're will be a stark difference in their Thai language capabilities.

As far as expense, if one needed 12 months Ed visa:

Walen - 25K per annum

Payap - ~60K-80K per annum

Walen&Payap Difference.bmp

An easier way to look at this is:

Both will provide you an ED visa, and both will have training in Thai.

If you are more concerned with getting a visa and not so concerned about what you'll learn, there are ProLanguage, Walen, SeeTEFL

If you are more concerned with learning Thai, there are Payap and AUA

If you want to pay for a class and visa and have it taken away from you, you may also consider CMU.(Please see other threads about CMU before considering this option!)

Don't fall for the "cost per hour breakdown" below. Payap offers 120 hours(2 courses) for ~20K. however this is intensive and will be completed within 3 months(90day visa). To get a 1 yr visa, you will have to take more terms. Walen offers 180hr for ~25K, but spreads it out over 1 yr. The program hours are not the same in any way.

Some thoughts from my own experiences..

Payap has a good reputation, but is one of the more costly schools.

CMU - cancelled classes(and Visas) on all of their language students last year

SeeTEFL - very likely to make the same deal you describe below.

Walen - was advised by a couple attending "You only have to goto the first class"

YMCA - no visa's offerred.

AUA - Just started to offer ED-Visa, but you're forced to start from the beginning.

there are also the church based, and Burmese based schools that offer " Cheap Visas".

There are others out there, and I'm sure others have heard differently. This is just my experiences.

Edited March 24, 2011 by CMSteve

[ThePoMoBro]

Anyone ever take private lessons at NES? The price isn't so bad. I care about learning 100% and I'm not trying to burn 25,000 at Walen just for a visa when I'm interested enough that I'm already studying on my own every day.

AUA looks like a great deal but no evening classes and I'm busy during the day.

Edited March 24, 2011 by ThePoMoBro

[richard10365]

I do see your point Steve. Calculating the cost of the visa changes things a bit. For example, at Walen, you have to go to immigration every 90 days and pay 1900 baht(7,600/year) for a new visa. While at Payap, the cost of the visa is included in the price.

Another interesting twist to things, I called the Intensive Thai department earlier in the day at Payap and they told me something very interesting. According to the Intensive Thai department, in order for students to extend their visa at Payap, they have to enroll for a second time at a cost of 20,200 baht. Immigration then extends the students visa for 9 more months at no cost to the student since this is included in the tuition price. That got me thinking. This price is the cost for 2 more consecutive terms for a total of 40,400 baht (20,200 + 20,200)(4 total consecutive terms).

For example, term 1 starts on 6 June, 2011 and term 4 ends on 21 October, 2011 (according to the website). However, the students visa does not expire. You still have the 9 month extension that goes until May or June 2012 depending on when you entered the country.

The question I will have to confirm is do you study for 5 months and take the rest of the year off to practice your Thai. What you do with the extra 7 months? Keep in mind that term 5 starts in June 2012.

I will find out and let you know tomorrow.

I attached a fun new chart with the Visa difference for those of you who like those things.

Enjoy!

Also, if you don't need a visa at Payap because you are here on some other form of visa, then Payap reduces the cost of the 2 terms by 4,700 baht.

[wynzlo]

Another interesting twist to things, I called the Intensive Thai department earlier in the day at Payap and they told me something very interesting. According to the Intensive Thai department, in order for students to extend their visa at Payap, they have to enroll for a second time at a cost of 20,200 baht. Immigration then extends the students visa for 9 more months at no cost to the student since this is included in the tuition price. That got me thinking. This price is the cost for 2 more consecutive terms for a total of 40,400 baht (20,200 + 20,200)(4 total consecutive terms).

For example, term 1 starts on 6 June, 2011 and term 4 ends on 21 October, 2011 (according to the website). However, the students visa does not expire. You still have the 9 month extension that goes until May or June 2012 depending on when you entered the country.

The question I will have to confirm is do you study for 5 months and take the rest of the year off to practice your Thai. What you do with the extra 7 months? Keep in mind that term 5 starts in June 2012.

I will find out and let you know tomorrow.

Please do report back if you talk to them about this. I went to Payap for a few terms and never bothered with the ED visa. It cost an extra 4500B when a double tourist visa was free. If I could do 5-6 terms at Payap within one year, that would be the obvious choice. Most of these other language schools are a joke.

[richard10365]

I do see your point Steve. Calculating the cost of the visa changes things a bit. For example, at Walen, you have to go to immigration every 90 days and pay 1900 baht(7,600/year) for a new visa. While at Payap, the cost of the visa is included in the price.

Another interesting twist to things, I called the Intensive Thai department earlier in the day at Payap and they told me something very interesting. According to the Intensive Thai department, in order for students to extend their visa at Payap, they have to enroll for a second time at a cost of 20,200 baht. Immigration then extends the students visa for 9 more months at no cost to the student since this is included in the tuition price. That got me thinking. This price is the cost for 2 more consecutive terms for a total of 40,400 baht (20,200 + 20,200)(4 total consecutive terms).

For example, term 1 starts on 6 June, 2011 and term 4 ends on 21 October, 2011 (according to the website). However, the students visa does not expire. You still have the 9 month extension that goes until May or June 2012 depending on when you entered the country.

The question I will have to confirm is do you study for 5 months and take the rest of the year off to practice your Thai. What you do with the extra 7 months? Keep in mind that term 5 starts in June 2012.

I will find out and let you know tomorrow.

I attached a fun new chart with the Visa difference for those of you who like those things.

Enjoy!

Also, if you don't need a visa at Payap because you are here on some other form of visa, then Payap reduces the cost of the 2 terms by 4,700 baht.

I have confirmed this with the Intensive Thai department at Payap. It is possible to study for 5 months and take the next 7 months off.

[CMSteve]

From what I understand this is the same at AUA. You are given paperwork to make the original 90day Non imm - ED visa. Then you are given more documentation to make a 90 day extension. the next extension given is for 180days. Each term is for 6 weeks. Back to back you could possibly finish the 5 terms necessary for 1yr visa within 6-7months and take the rest of the time off. More likely than not though, you'll be stuck waiting for the higher level classes to meet. This is because the higher level classes don't always have enough students at the same time to offer the class. There is a good possibility that you will not be able to take all the terms back to back.

I do see your point Steve. Calculating the cost of the visa changes things a bit. For example, at Walen, you have to go to immigration every 90 days and pay 1900 baht(7,600/year) for a new visa. While at Payap, the cost of the visa is included in the price.

Another interesting twist to things, I called the Intensive Thai department earlier in the day at Payap and they told me something very interesting. According to the Intensive Thai department, in order for students to extend their visa at Payap, they have to enroll for a second time at a cost of 20,200 baht. Immigration then extends the students visa for 9 more months at no cost to the student since this is included in the tuition price. That got me thinking. This price is the cost for 2 more consecutive terms for a total of 40,400 baht (20,200 + 20,200)(4 total consecutive terms).

For example, term 1 starts on 6 June, 2011 and term 4 ends on 21 October, 2011 (according to the website). However, the students visa does not expire. You still have the 9 month extension that goes until May or June 2012 depending on when you entered the country.

The question I will have to confirm is do you study for 5 months and take the rest of the year off to practice your Thai. What you do with the extra 7 months? Keep in mind that term 5 starts in June 2012.

I will find out and let you know tomorrow.

I attached a fun new chart with the Visa difference for those of you who like those things.

Enjoy!

Also, if you don't need a visa at Payap because you are here on some other form of visa, then Payap reduces the cost of the 2 terms by 4,700 baht.

I have confirmed this with the Intensive Thai department at Payap. It is possible to study for 5 months and take the next 7 months off.

[Mapguy]

(A brief quote from above)

If you are more concerned with getting a visa and not so concerned about what you'll learn, there are ProLanguage, Walen, SeeTEFL

If you are more concerned with learning Thai, there are Payap and AUA....

NOTE: The following bit about CMU is woefully uninformed.

(End of quote)

My question after reading this thread and all the others which reflect people trying to do a dodge around visa requirements is something like this: A lot of people are trying to dodge selfishly or take advantage of the customs , the rules, and or the law in Thailand for their own personal benefit. I am not one to say if you don't like it, go home, but --- to use a hackneyed expression --- what did your mother teach you?! Maybe, concerning personal circumstances, going home or elsewhere would be a more honest choice.

Foreigners can complain about the ways of doing things in Thailand or the vicissitudes of living in Thailand. Or any place. But that is a weak excuse, in my book, for not adjusting oneself to where one is or, sadly, looking for the cracks to get through the "system." I certainly don't praise or berate the good or bad of where I am, nor necessarily agree with either, but I hope I am not one to try to subvert the mores of where I am. If I don't agree with those, then I have a choice. I can make a positive commitment to be an example by behavior or suggestion for change. Or I can indeed leave.

[CMSteve]

Thank you for your opinion. You are entitled to have and to share it.

In this thread we are providing recommendations of language schools (with Ed visa).. I'm sure everyone can agree that there is no reason to dodge, perry, or duck a law, rule, or social morale. I'm simply providing information related to the questions asked.

It seems that you are taking a negative tone to the responses that I gave and maybe from others. My feeling is that you are not understanding what we are attempting to convey. I thought it rather obvious that we are providing reasons for him to go to the schools where he will actually learn Thai, but that is a decision that he should make. " I am not one to try to subvert the mores of where I am", nor am I one to "praise or berate the good or bad of where I am" or who I speak with. I guess that's what MY mother taught me....

"I whole heartedly believe that if you took a student that attended 1yr at Payap or AUA, and 1 student that attended 1 yr at Walen,Prolanguage,SeeTEFL, or the course previously offered by CMU, caeteris paribus, they're will be a stark difference in their Thai language capabilities. "

"Walen offers 12month visa with 180hrs of study @ 25K. This does not take into account that you will study about the same amount at Payap in under 3 months in what Walen will stretch out for 1 yr. "

I was one of the students attending CMU's 1yr Thai class. It included a 180hr course (2hr, Sat and Sun) and included documentation necessary to attain a visa while studying. As everyone knows, The class was cancelled by CMU. Visa's were not renewed. Later, there were attempts by CMU to administer new classes and to even sponsor the same visa, if they hadn't already expired. This took about 2 month to settle. Unfortunately, myself and many others lost our visa and accrued overstays within that time period.

If there is something in my statement about what happened to me at CMU that is incorrect or "woefully uninformed." Please enlighten all of us.

(A brief quote from above)

If you are more concerned with getting a visa and not so concerned about what you'll learn, there are ProLanguage, Walen, SeeTEFL

If you are more concerned with learning Thai, there are Payap and AUA....

NOTE: The following bit about CMU is woefully uninformed.

(End of quote)

My question after reading this thread and all the others which reflect people trying to do a dodge around visa requirements is something like this: A lot of people are trying to dodge selfishly or take advantage of the customs , the rules, and or the law in Thailand for their own personal benefit. I am not one to say if you don't like it, go home, but --- to use a hackneyed expression --- what did your mother teach you?! Maybe, concerning personal circumstances, going home or elsewhere would be a more honest choice.

Foreigners can complain about the ways of doing things in Thailand or the vicissitudes of living in Thailand. Or any place. But that is a weak excuse, in my book, for not adjusting oneself to where one is or, sadly, looking for the cracks to get through the "system." I certainly don't praise or berate the good or bad of where I am, nor necessarily agree with either, but I hope I am not one to try to subvert the mores of where I am. If I don't agree with those, then I have a choice. I can make a positive commitment to be an example by behavior or suggestion for change. Or I can indeed leave.

Edited March 25, 2011 by CMSteve

[wynzlo]

(A brief quote from above)

If you are more concerned with getting a visa and not so concerned about what you'll learn, there are ProLanguage, Walen, SeeTEFL

If you are more concerned with learning Thai, there are Payap and AUA....

NOTE: The following bit about CMU is woefully uninformed.

(End of quote)

My question after reading this thread and all the others which reflect people trying to do a dodge around visa requirements is something like this: A lot of people are trying to dodge selfishly or take advantage of the customs , the rules, and or the law in Thailand for their own personal benefit. I am not one to say if you don't like it, go home, but --- to use a hackneyed expression --- what did your mother teach you?! Maybe, concerning personal circumstances, going home or elsewhere would be a more honest choice.

Foreigners can complain about the ways of doing things in Thailand or the vicissitudes of living in Thailand. Or any place. But that is a weak excuse, in my book, for not adjusting oneself to where one is or, sadly, looking for the cracks to get through the "system." I certainly don't praise or berate the good or bad of where I am, nor necessarily agree with either, but I hope I am not one to try to subvert the mores of where I am. If I don't agree with those, then I have a choice. I can make a positive commitment to be an example by behavior or suggestion for change. Or I can indeed leave.

What color are the unicorns in the world where you live?

Really though, I agree with some of your thoughts here. But why not try and look at some of the potential positives regarding the visa mill language schools. Those same people who would likely be riding tourist visas for years end up tossed into a few language classes where they might inadvertently absorb a few words of Thai.

[Mapguy]

Oh, dear! Take an odd path in the discussion and you can get into trouble!

I have absolutely no argument with providing solid information on where and how most effectively to learn to speak Thai. In any case, as language is the most culturally specific aspect of life, one can only give it one's best shot in a year, the normal length of an educational visa.

I can speak about some but certainly not all learning places. As an aside, I happen to agree with the teaching method proposed (perhaps not followed successfully) by Walen, but not the way in which it is sold or implemented. Much more importantly, it depends on the student.

I do not doubt the intelligence, capacity, or intent of all people who wish to be literate in Thai. I basically wrote about people playing the immigration rules for selfish benefit. The language could be Inuit, as far as I care. That is not what I was writing about. So, if you are a genuine student eager to get up close and personal with Thai culture, then go for it! If you are just looking for a modus vivendi "way of living" to stay here for other reasons, buzz off!! And I doubt you'll ultimately be welcome on whatever planet you settle by its honest inhabitants.

Cost comparisons make my head spin. Our friend at Payap is really doing a job! That's where he works. So have others promoting their systems and places of study. But not all. Note the absence of AUA on this thread or the YMCA. I am not promoting either; just note their absence.

Regarding the cheap shot at Chiang Mai University's relatively recent brouhaha viz the language Institute, unfortunately 99% of the negative comments I have read on this web site are often quite understandable but very, very uninformed, usually because the posters were (1) either playing the system, (2) naively, including those of honest intent, got caught up in what happened and/or (3) lost some money.

It is certainly not necessary or appropriate to raise the CMU Language Institute issue here. I am not an apologist for CMU, but it makes too easy --- a target for complaints which seem to migrate to other discussions about language training.

But, back to the major point: Learning about Thai language and culture really don't have a straight-forward connection with obtaining visas for other motives. That was never the intent of that visa, nor should it be. Period.

[happyrobert]

I've been shopping around schools and sitting in on classes. I negotiated with a reputable school near the old city (don't want to say the name in a public post) for 180 hours of 2-person group lesson at 25,000/person. This would be 180 hours of lessons to be used within one year and it would qualify for an ED visa.

Anyone interested please contact me and we could talk more and lock this in. I'm only one person so far.

Otherwise, I'll still be looking at other schools (besides Walen) this week so if there are more suggestions, keep them coming. I plan to hit Payap and CMU tomorrow.

Payap is full-time, unless it's recently changed.

Suggest you stay away from CMU and Wallen.

[Mapguy]

(A brief quote from above)

If you are more concerned with getting a visa and not so concerned about what you'll learn, there are ProLanguage, Walen, SeeTEFL

If you are more concerned with learning Thai, there are Payap and AUA....

NOTE: The following bit about CMU is woefully uninformed.

(End of quote)

My question after reading this thread and all the others which reflect people trying to do a dodge around visa requirements is something like this: A lot of people are trying to dodge selfishly or take advantage of the customs , the rules, and or the law in Thailand for their own personal benefit. I am not one to say if you don't like it, go home, but --- to use a hackneyed expression --- what did your mother teach you?! Maybe, concerning personal circumstances, going home or elsewhere would be a more honest choice.

Foreigners can complain about the ways of doing things in Thailand or the vicissitudes of living in Thailand. Or any place. But that is a weak excuse, in my book, for not adjusting oneself to where one is or, sadly, looking for the cracks to get through the "system." I certainly don't praise or berate the good or bad of where I am, nor necessarily agree with either, but I hope I am not one to try to subvert the mores of where I am. If I don't agree with those, then I have a choice. I can make a positive commitment to be an example by behavior or suggestion for change. Or I can indeed leave.

What color are the unicorns in the world where you live?

Really though, I agree with some of your thoughts here. But why not try and look at some of the potential positives regarding the visa mill language schools. Those same people who would likely be riding tourist visas for years end up tossed into a few language classes where they might inadvertently absorb a few words of Thai.

That is a kind sentiment and hopefully a result in more than a few cases. But I suggest people do have to be responsible for their behavior now, not to Saint Peter or whatever: Cheating is cheating, whether it be on an examination (Heaven forfend, a language test!!!!) or otherwise. In little ways or in much larger ways, it corrupts who we are.

Looking at it another way, many say that others do it, generally, so why not I; here in Thailand (or anywhere)? Don't get that? Uh oh !!

Note: This is not a message sponsored by any religious organization, any chapter or any organization sponsoring a 12-step program, or any bizarre website. No, I have not been to The Dukes except once in several years!! No, no nice young men in ties and white shirts have rung my doorbell. The author doesn't believe in karma either but does believe in the "middle way" precept of Buddhism so as not to fall into a ditch at the side of the road of life!

[richard10365]

There was a point in this thread where it was mentioned that Payap was more expensive than another school. I explained my reasons why I didn't think so.

Then it was brought up that about the duration of the visa. I added the visa cost to my calculation because many foreigners live on a budget and this information is important to them. While researching this I was given new information from the Intensive Thai department about what immigration is doing now for the intensive Thai students. It seemed quite relevant to the discussion at hand so included that as part of the discussion.

It is true I work for the university. My focus is on the international programs at the university. One of my responsibilities is to monitor the internet for comments about Payap and respond to it if needs be. I have investigated complaints and responded to requests for information. The negative comments about Payap give me the ammo that I need to complain at an official level about what the public is saying about the university. My goal is to make the university better and inform the management what the public is concerned about. At times I think I am dreaded as much at Payap as I seem to sometimes be here. I feel like the tax man.

I also listen to the students comments and pass those along as well. Payap is concerned about the product it puts out and is changing to meet the needs of it's customers; however, for some, the change is not fast enough nor is it enough of a change for them to be satisfied. I completely understand how they feel because I study at Payap as well. I have burned bridges at Payap because of some of my complaints as a student. However, there are some bridges that are not needed and IMHO my university is a better place because of it. However, I can't say I felt proud to do it but it needed to be done. Some choices are more difficult than others.

[hml367]

Perhaps the OP should investigate the proper area of his question with the proper place to get a correct answer.

I would say for questions about visas, go ask Thai Immigration.

For the choice language school, investigate each school. There seem to be good and bad comments about different schools. I have found that getting information from a forum helps to form the questions I would want answered when going to the establishment involved to get an answer.

If someone is more interested in getting a visa than getting quality instruction then their goals are flawed.

If someone needs an education visa yet they are busy all day doing something else it makes me wonder what kind of visa they are here on now.

I think someone that gets a 6 month, 1 year, or any other length visa to study Thai language, then expects to study for only a portion of that time then just use the visa to stay here while not attending school may be flawed thinking also. Another question that should be asked at Immigration and not use a school's answer or an answer from an internet forum to base their final decision. I don't think, "But they said.......", would make any difference if Thai Immigration for some reason "catches" someone outside their visa allowances.

I believe visas in Thailand are easier to obtain correctly than in many other countries.

MSPain

[Loaded]

...If someone is more interested in getting a visa than getting quality instruction then their goals are flawed...

Why?

[hml367]

...If someone is more interested in getting a visa than getting quality instruction then their goals are flawed...

Why?

I should have said, "in my opinion their goals are flawed."

MSPain

Edited March 26, 2011 by hml367

[richard10365]

I don't think it is wrong if a person uses the option to stay longer in Thailand if they want to study. It is not for me to say what that person should do with their own life as long as they don't infringe on the rights of others. Their goal might be to enjoy Thailand more by staying here longer. Becoming proficient in Thai is not really their main concern.

I love living in Thailand and I hope they enjoy their life here as much as I do. Who knows, maybe the extra time spent in Thailand will help them resolve some important issues in their life. How many of us living here knew what we wanted when we first came here?

[Loaded]

...If someone is more interested in getting a visa than getting quality instruction then their goals are flawed...

Why?

I should have said, "in my opinion their goals are flawed."

MSPain

In your opinion why?

[hml367]

Because it is my opinion that if the visa is more important than the instruction, quality instruction could be sacrificed just to get a visa.

MSPain

...If someone is more interested in getting a visa than getting quality instruction then their goals are flawed...

Why?

I should have said, "in my opinion their goals are flawed."

MSPain

In your opinion why?