Recommend Language School (With Ed Visa) In Cm

[wynzlo]

There was a point in this thread where it was mentioned that Payap was more expensive than another school. I explained my reasons why I didn't think so.

Then it was brought up that about the duration of the visa. I added the visa cost to my calculation because many foreigners live on a budget and this information is important to them. While researching this I was given new information from the Intensive Thai department about what immigration is doing now for the intensive Thai students. It seemed quite relevant to the discussion at hand so included that as part of the discussion.

It is true I work for the university. My focus is on the international programs at the university. One of my responsibilities is to monitor the internet for comments about Payap and respond to it if needs be. I have investigated complaints and responded to requests for information. The negative comments about Payap give me the ammo that I need to complain at an official level about what the public is saying about the university. My goal is to make the university better and inform the management what the public is concerned about. At times I think I am dreaded as much at Payap as I seem to sometimes be here. I feel like the tax man.

I also listen to the students comments and pass those along as well. Payap is concerned about the product it puts out and is changing to meet the needs of it's customers; however, for some, the change is not fast enough nor is it enough of a change for them to be satisfied. I completely understand how they feel because I study at Payap as well. I have burned bridges at Payap because of some of my complaints as a student. However, there are some bridges that are not needed and IMHO my university is a better place because of it. However, I can't say I felt proud to do it but it needed to be done. Some choices are more difficult than others.

Thanks for this post. While studying at Payap, it was obvious that the university was run differently than many other organizations in the country. In dealing with the administration, things were always quick, clear and efficient. Both admins and teachers actually communicated changes, requirements etc. to students. It was like they actually wanted their students to succeed.

[hml367]

I don't think it is wrong if a person uses the option to stay longer in Thailand if they want to study. It is not for me to say what that person should do with their own life as long as they don't infringe on the rights of others. Their goal might be to enjoy Thailand more by staying here longer. Becoming proficient in Thai is not really their main concern.

I love living in Thailand and I hope they enjoy their life here as much as I do. Who knows, maybe the extra time spent in Thailand will help them resolve some important issues in their life. How many of us living here knew what we wanted when we first came here?

That is kind of my point, Richard..... "If they want to study". If they want to stay in Thailand just to stay in Thailand, then they should get the appropriate visa rather than "playing" the system.

MSPain

Edited March 26, 2011 by hml367

[wynzlo]

I don't think it is wrong if a person uses the option to stay longer in Thailand if they want to study. It is not for me to say what that person should do with their own life as long as they don't infringe on the rights of others. Their goal might be to enjoy Thailand more by staying here longer. Becoming proficient in Thai is not really their main concern.

I love living in Thailand and I hope they enjoy their life here as much as I do. Who knows, maybe the extra time spent in Thailand will help them resolve some important issues in their life. How many of us living here knew what we wanted when we first came here?

That is kind of my point, Richard..... "If they want to study". If they want to stay in Thailand just to stay in Thailand, then they should get the appropriate visa rather than "playing" the system.

MSPain

And don't forget all those volunteers illegally helping the underprivileged in this country. Playing the system like that is not cool, they need to get a work permit to help those poor kids!

[pjclark1]

Because it is my opinion that if the visa is more important than the instruction, quality instruction could be sacrificed just to get a visa.

MSPain

If you wanted quality instruction, you shouldn't be in Thailand!

And that's just my opinion.

[hml367]

Because it is my opinion that if the visa is more important than the instruction, quality instruction could be sacrificed just to get a visa.

MSPain

If you wanted quality instruction, you shouldn't be in Thailand!

And that's just my opinion.

That would seem to solve this issue.

MSPain

[Mapguy]

...

It is true I work for the university. My focus is on the international programs at the university. One of my responsibilities is to monitor the internet for comments about Payap and respond to it if needs be. I have investigated complaints and responded to requests for information. The negative comments about Payap give me the ammo that I need to complain at an official level about what the public is saying about the university. My goal is to make the university better and inform the management what the public is concerned about. At times I think I am dreaded as much at Payap as I seem to sometimes be here. I feel like the tax man.

I also listen to the students comments and pass those along as well. Payap is concerned about the product it puts out and is changing to meet the needs of it's customers; however, for some, the change is not fast enough nor is it enough of a change for them to be satisfied. I completely understand how they feel because I study at Payap as well. I have burned bridges at Payap because of some of my complaints as a student. However, there are some bridges that are not needed and IMHO my university is a better place because of it. However, I can't say I felt proud to do it but it needed to be done. Some choices are more difficult than others.

No fun being the guy in the middle!

[hml367]

And don't forget all those volunteers illegally helping the underprivileged in this country. Playing the system like that is not cool, they need to get a work permit to help those poor kids!

Are you implying that breaking the law is the solution? I believe Thai Immigration would require a work permit to do volunteer work. You might go to Immigration and ask them to get the answer.

This was about Education visas. I think in U.S.A. an education visa does allow students with that type of visa to work as long as they are still attending their school. Maybe if a Thai education visa allows students to work that would solve the situation you are referring to. Again, you could go to Thai Immigration and ask them.

MSPain

[CMSteve]

I don't questing that there are many many people here playing the system and even giving a bad name to the people here that are playing by the rules. However, there is no reason to attack the OP nor anyone providing options based on their experiences.

I do not know the OP, and I understand that I have no right to question his motive or circumstances. He could be in a monistary 6 days a week, not have transport, taking care of a sick relative, etc etc etc. What exactly is your issue with the OP's schedule? Is it not possible for someone in CM to have a schedule?

"If someone is more interested in getting a visa than getting quality instruction then their goals are flawed."

I believe this is faulty logic. You are placing your assumptions upon the OP. When I was in University, I can honestly say that my main goal was to get a degree and with that a good job. I was not there specifically for the education. Would I have done better going to school with the main goal or getting an education, possibly, but that was not the main goal. To take this further, does my sole reason to come to Thailand need to be to assimilate to the Thai culture? That may be a goal for some, but does that mean we can not come for an education, love, exploration? It surely, can't mean we should change our Ed visa's to an O if we were to meet up with friend and/or family? What if I were to turn 50 mid-year, should I immediately have my Ed visa changed to retirement, while I am still in class?

Lastly, I think I made it pretty clear that the reason the visa's are made for 1yr is to accommodate the higher level classes and lack of full classes. It was specifically stated that the possibility to take classes for 6months and use the visa for 1yr is not likely.

PS. I completely agree with your line :"I don't think, "But they said.......", would make any difference if Thai Immigration for some reason "catches" someone outside their visa allowances"

OP - pay very close attention to her quote above. No one can be held liable if you break the law, except you.

Perhaps the OP should investigate the proper area of his question with the proper place to get a correct answer.

I would say for questions about visas, go ask Thai Immigration.

For the choice language school, investigate each school. There seem to be good and bad comments about different schools. I have found that getting information from a forum helps to form the questions I would want answered when going to the establishment involved to get an answer.

If someone is more interested in getting a visa than getting quality instruction then their goals are flawed.

If someone needs an education visa yet they are busy all day doing something else it makes me wonder what kind of visa they are here on now.

I think someone that gets a 6 month, 1 year, or any other length visa to study Thai language, then expects to study for only a portion of that time then just use the visa to stay here while not attending school may be flawed thinking also. Another question that should be asked at Immigration and not use a school's answer or an answer from an internet forum to base their final decision. I don't think, "But they said.......", would make any difference if Thai Immigration for some reason "catches" someone outside their visa allowances.

I believe visas in Thailand are easier to obtain correctly than in many other countries.

MSPain

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, TV CM Friends,

Lots of great information on this thread, thanks !

Appreciate Khun Richard10365 being clear he is working for Payap, and his statements here have made it more likely this human would consider Payap as a place to study. Also appreciate CMSteve's compassionate appeal to not make assumptions about the motivations of people who wish to have a shorter period of time of study, but stay longer, and his enumeration of factors that, if we read them correctly, might result in some period of no-class waiting until a higher level course is offered.

Would note, however, that if a person (in Thailand only, unfortunately, a male human being) were in the Monkhood, other visa resources are available. Wonder if any farangs in the Monkhood are studying full-time, or part-time at Payap or other schools ?

And, like it or not, given TIT, and recent events in the ED scene in CM, we could understand some future beauracratic spin where farang students, who had periods of months during long ED visas where they were not taking classes: got shafted.

The one thing that seems "missing" on this thread is direct recommendations of specific teachers. While we believe the best teacher on the planet cannot help those who do not study diligently, and have some degree of "aptitude," it is our experience that some people are unusually gifted as teachers, given a motivated student who is willing to work hard.

So, we'd like to hear about teachers you've encountered that you think are very effective.

thanks, ~o:37;

p.s. Once upon a time this human component taught at the University level, and he liked to begin each new class with the statement that: "what happens in a classroom is the 'tip of the iceberg' in 'education:' real education happens within yourself as you study, reflect on, practice, absorb, and test what you think you've learned in the 'real world,' using every resource you can get your hands on. What you may hear, and see, in the classroom in 'distilled' form is striking a match: it's up to you to get the fire going. No teacher can give you 'motivation,' or, intelligence: no combination of lectures, textbooks, and resource materials, can 'pour' education into you: you have to create it within yourself. Yes, you can 'make it through' this class with a passing grade just memorizing some stuff and regurgitating it, but if you do that: in the long run, you only cheat yourself."

[CMSteve]

Ugh... Sometimes I hate the voice of reason!!!

But you are right. I may have been a little over impassioned in my posts.

Richard, mapguy, MsPain, I stand by every point I made, but I am sorry for the temper.

PS - orang37 - although there may be a better visa for people joining the monkhood, there are some (specifically a friend of mine) who is doing so during his summer break from school. Of course, since he is here legally on a Non-imm with WP, I suppose he too would not be looking for a visa through a language school.

Sawasdee Khrup, TV CM Friends,

Lots of great information on this thread, thanks !

Appreciate Khun Richard10365 being clear he is working for Payap, and his statements here have made it more likely this human would consider Payap as a place to study. Also appreciate CMSteve's compassionate appeal to not make assumptions about the motivations of people who wish to have a shorter period of time of study, but stay longer, and his enumeration of factors that, if we read them correctly, might result in some period of no-class waiting until a higher level course is offered.

Would note, however, that if a person (in Thailand only, unfortunately, a male human being) were in the Monkhood, other visa resources are available. Wonder if any farangs in the Monkhood are studying full-time, or part-time at Payap or other schools ?

And, like it or not, given TIT, and recent events in the ED scene in CM, we could understand some future beauracratic spin where farang students, who had periods of months during long ED visas where they were not taking classes: got shafted.

The one thing that seems "missing" on this thread is direct recommendations of specific teachers. While we believe the best teacher on the planet cannot help those who do not study diligently, and have some degree of "aptitude," it is our experience that some people are unusually gifted as teachers, given a motivated student who is willing to work hard.

So, we'd like to hear about teachers you've encountered that you think are very effective.

thanks, ~o:37;

p.s. Once upon a time this human component taught at the University level, and he liked to begin each new class with the statement that: "what happens in a classroom is the 'tip of the iceberg' in 'education:' real education happens within yourself as you study, reflect on, practice, absorb, and test what you think you've learned in the 'real world,' using every resource you can get your hands on. What you may hear, and see, in the classroom in 'distilled' form is striking a match: it's up to you to get the fire going. No teacher can give you 'motivation,' or, intelligence: no combination of lectures, textbooks, and resource materials, can 'pour' education into you: you have to create it within yourself. Yes, you can 'make it through' this class with a passing grade just memorizing some stuff and regurgitating it, but if you do that: in the long run, you only cheat yourself."

[wynzlo]

And don't forget all those volunteers illegally helping the underprivileged in this country. Playing the system like that is not cool, they need to get a work permit to help those poor kids!

Are you implying that breaking the law is the solution? I believe Thai Immigration would require a work permit to do volunteer work. You might go to Immigration and ask them to get the answer.

This was about Education visas. I think in U.S.A. an education visa does allow students with that type of visa to work as long as they are still attending their school. Maybe if a Thai education visa allows students to work that would solve the situation you are referring to. Again, you could go to Thai Immigration and ask them.

MSPain

My only implication was that the system is far from perfect and the lines are often blurred. Be careful about making umbrella judgements.

The one thing that seems "missing" on this thread is direct recommendations of specific teachers. While we believe the best teacher on the planet cannot help those who do not study diligently, and have some degree of "aptitude," it is our experience that some people are unusually gifted as teachers, given a motivated student who is willing to work hard.

So, we'd like to hear about teachers you've encountered that you think are very effective.

Great point. I can confidently say that Ajarn Noi at Payap is one of the most gifted teachers I've ever had. She seems to teach the beginner level courses - Thai 1 and Thai 2 - though she may teach advanced levels also. She brings an amazing amount of energy into the class. In fact, I can't recall ever being bored in her classroom. The material we learned in her classes was nothing out of the ordinary. What makes her an amazing teacher, in my opinion, is her ability to create a comfortable atmosphere where people are willing to make mistakes. This ultimately translates to confidence in practicing outside the classroom, which is the real key to improving language skills.

[richard10365]

I had Aj. Noi for Thai 3 in the undergrad program. She was so patient with me and others when we would get frustrated. Her personality is bright, cheerful and extremely helpful. I do think we are lucky to have her at Payap.

[Loaded]

Are you implying that breaking the law is the solution? I believe Thai Immigration would require a work permit to do volunteer work. You might go to Immigration and ask them to get the answer.

MSPain

Immigration issues and extends visas. The Labour office issues and extends work permits. You don't go to Immigration to ask about work permits.

IMAPain

[hml367]

Thanks.

MSPain