How Important Is Abs On Your Car ?

[Velocette]

Having read the post about airbags I couldn't help thinking the same about ABS.

Even the more impoverished amongst us (self included) would like at least two airbags, if not more, and of course ABS, certainly in the rainy season.

I feel that ABS is 'must have' for bikes, having locked up a few front wheels with my fear and ham fistedness, in the wet. But I have no such recollections of ever really needing it in a car, no memory of locking the wheels while braking, and skidding madly, wishing I had ABS to help me out. Although like most, I've had many very close shaves, in the wet and the dry.

I've driven commercial vehicles which either through diesel being spilt on the road, or me driving too quickly in the wet, have lost grip, and started to slide through long fast sweeping bends, but I'm aware that ABS itself would not have helped in these situations.

I guess also it's a generational thing, haven driven for so many years without air bags or ABS, and before those, even without seat belts, not that I'm suggesting that we should dispense with seat belts !

Perhaps some form of cockpit ejector is the final solution

[H2oDunc]

The cheapest option instead of ABS is to simply drive at a speed that allows you to stop easily and drive with enough distance between you and the car in front to allow for you to stop quickly in an emergency. Easy really.

[katabeachbum]

The cheapest option instead of ABS is to simply drive at a speed that allows you to stop easily and drive with enough distance between you and the car in front to allow for you to stop quickly in an emergency. Easy really.

I would prefere to keep at least 3 seconds distance to the vehicle in front of me, but find that impossible on LOS highways and expressways. Always someone to fill the gap. Solution? Drive faster than anyone else

Good brakes supported by ABS is IMHO opinion more important than most other stuff on a car and bike. I have been driving ABS braked cars to long (yeez 2 decades now) to go back to pumping the brake pedal. Reflexes gone

even with only 1,5 years with ABS braked Ninja, I find myself locking brakes using auto stepthrough. every vehicle should have ABS :jap:

[onnut]

ABS does not work over here as the roads are too greasy anyway.

[JetsetBkk]

The cheapest option instead of ABS is to simply drive at a speed that allows you to stop easily and drive with enough distance between you and the car in front to allow for you to stop quickly in an emergency. Easy really.

Not when someone pulls out from a side road and stops in front of you.

[JetsetBkk]

ABS does not work over here as the roads are too greasy anyway.

That's exactly when you need it. Do you know how it works?

[onnut]

ABS does not work over here as the roads are too greasy anyway.

That's exactly when you need it. Do you know how it works?

No! Please explain.

[Tywais]

No! Please explain.

Sarcasm? If not > How ABS works.

My car has ABS, EBD (Electronic brake distribution) and TSC (Traction Stability Control) plus dual front and side airbags. Belts and suspenders (braces for the Brits) for me.

[katabeachbum]

Sarcasm? If not > How ABS works.

except in any modern car, there are 4 speed sensors, one for each wheel. The only 3 speed sensor cars in LOS are Izu and Chevy pickups. dated ABS 20 years ago

[Velocette]

No! Please explain.

Sarcasm? If not > How ABS works.

My car has ABS, EBD (Electronic brake distribution) and TSC (Traction Stability Control) plus dual front and side airbags. Belts and suspenders (braces for the Brits) for me.

Well whose a lucky boy then ?

Followed your link Tywais, thank you for that, and was surprised to see some of the stats for ABS . . . .stats can make disturbing reading . . . .notably that there is " No evidence to show that it improves overall safety "

Do anti-lock brakes really work?

Anti-lock brakes really do help you stop better. They prevent wheels from locking up and provide the shortest stopping distance on slippery surfaces. But do they really prevent accidents? This is the true measure of the effectiveness of ABS systems.

The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) has conducted several studies trying to determine if cars equipped with ABS are ­involved in more or fewer fatal accidents. It turns out that in a 1996 study, vehicles equipped with ABS were overall no less likely to be involved in fatal accidents than vehicles without. The study actually stated that although cars with ABS were less likely to be involved in accidents fatal to the occupants of other cars, they are more likely to be involved in accidents fatal to the occupants of the ABS car, especially single-vehicle accidents.

There is much speculation about the reason for this. Some people think that drivers of ABS-equipped cars use the ABS incorrectly, either by pumping the brakes or by releasing the brakes when they feel the system pulsing. Some people think that since ABS allows you to steer during a panic stop, more people run off the road and crash.

Some more recent information may indicate that the accident rate for ABS cars is improving, but there is still no evidence to show that ABS improves overall safety.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Velocette

[Kwasaki]

Speaking for myself I don't like ABS on cars or bikes, teaching people to have skill with or without would be a better answer.

Good call Velocette.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Kwasaki

[Familyonthemove]

Personally, if I had to pick just one - I'd prefer ABS over airbags.

ABS will help you stop in a shorter distance and help you remain in control whilst under heavy braking. It does not only prevent a lock-up. This should help you avoid the collision, so hopefully you'll never need your airbags.

ABS will probably operate several times a week, especially in the wet ... airbags may never be used (hopefully). Using seatbelts in front and back is another good safety feature ... airbags would come after seatbelts in my priority list as well.

[katabeachbum]

No! Please explain.

Sarcasm? If not > How ABS works.

My car has ABS, EBD (Electronic brake distribution) and TSC (Traction Stability Control) plus dual front and side airbags. Belts and suspenders (braces for the Brits) for me.

Well whose a lucky boy then ?

Followed your link Tywais, thank you for that, and was surprised to see some of the stats for ABS . . . .stats can make disturbing reading . . . .notably that there is " No evidence to show that it improves overall safety "

Do anti-lock brakes really work?

Anti-lock brakes really do help you stop better. They prevent wheels from locking up and provide the shortest stopping distance on slippery surfaces. But do they really prevent accidents? This is the true measure of the effectiveness of ABS systems.

The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) has conducted several studies trying to determine if cars equipped with ABS are ­involved in more or fewer fatal accidents. It turns out that in a 1996 study, vehicles equipped with ABS were overall no less likely to be involved in fatal accidents than vehicles without. The study actually stated that although cars with ABS were less likely to be involved in accidents fatal to the occupants of other cars, they are more likely to be involved in accidents fatal to the occupants of the ABS car, especially single-vehicle accidents.

There is much speculation about the reason for this. Some people think that drivers of ABS-equipped cars use the ABS incorrectly, either by pumping the brakes or by releasing the brakes when they feel the system pulsing. Some people think that since ABS allows you to steer during a panic stop, more people run off the road and crash.

Some more recent information may indicate that the accident rate for ABS cars is improving, but there is still no evidence to show that ABS improves overall safety.

past decade has revealed that most drivers simply apply to little power to brake pedal in ABS braked vehicles. Benz/Bosch have developed a panick brake system sensing how fast brake pedal is applied, and then increasing brake power to 100%. Most effective emergency braking. First car I owned with it was my 2008 Honda Accord 2,4

[Familyonthemove]

No! Please explain.

Sarcasm? If not > How ABS works.

My car has ABS, EBD (Electronic brake distribution) and TSC (Traction Stability Control) plus dual front and side airbags. Belts and suspenders (braces for the Brits) for me.

Well whose a lucky boy then ?

Followed your link Tywais, thank you for that, and was surprised to see some of the stats for ABS . . . .stats can make disturbing reading . . . .notably that there is " No evidence to show that it improves overall safety "

Do anti-lock brakes really work?

Anti-lock brakes really do help you stop better. They prevent wheels from locking up and provide the shortest stopping distance on slippery surfaces. But do they really prevent accidents? This is the true measure of the effectiveness of ABS systems.

The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) has conducted several studies trying to determine if cars equipped with ABS are ­involved in more or fewer fatal accidents. It turns out that in a 1996 study, vehicles equipped with ABS were overall no less likely to be involved in fatal accidents than vehicles without. The study actually stated that although cars with ABS were less likely to be involved in accidents fatal to the occupants of other cars, they are more likely to be involved in accidents fatal to the occupants of the ABS car, especially single-vehicle accidents.

There is much speculation about the reason for this. Some people think that drivers of ABS-equipped cars use the ABS incorrectly, either by pumping the brakes or by releasing the brakes when they feel the system pulsing. Some people think that since ABS allows you to steer during a panic stop, more people run off the road and crash.

Some more recent information may indicate that the accident rate for ABS cars is improving, but there is still no evidence to show that ABS improves overall safety.

past decade has revealed that most drivers simply apply to little power to brake pedal in ABS braked vehicles. Benz/Bosch have developed a panick brake system sensing how fast brake pedal is applied, and then increasing brake power to 100%. Most effective emergency braking. First car I owned with it was my 2008 Honda Accord 2,4

I think this is called 'brake assist' by some car manufacturers? But yes - if you've got ABS and you need to stop quick ... stomp on that pedal!

[Shocktreatment]

Dont forget ABS is about being able to turn while hard braking not just stopping quickly.

Go out on a dirt road with a car with out ABS and slam on the brakes and try and turn, you will go straight ahead. Do the same test in a car with ABS and you will see the difference as you will still be able to steer the car under hard braking.

[Kwasaki]

Maybe it will be better when only computers do everything when comes to driving cars then.

Cadence braking or stutter braking is an advanced driving technique used to allow a car to both steer and brake on a slippery surface.

In the past it would be used to effect an emergency stop where traction is limited, though for use in an emergency requires a presence of mind that the situation itself might preclude.

Cadence braking is supposed to maximize the time for the driver to steer around the obstacle ahead, as it allows him to steer while slowing.

It needs to be learned and practiced.

For most or maybe all drivers it has been entirely superseded by ABS, sad that ain’t it.

[katabeachbum]

Maybe it will be better when only computers do everything when comes to driving cars then.

Cadence braking or stutter braking is an advanced driving technique used to allow a car to both steer and brake on a slippery surface.

In the past it would be used to effect an emergency stop where traction is limited, though for use in an emergency requires a presence of mind that the situation itself might preclude.

Cadence braking is supposed to maximize the time for the driver to steer around the obstacle ahead, as it allows him to steer while slowing.

It needs to be learned and practiced.

For most or maybe all drivers it has been entirely superseded by ABS, sad that ain't it.

as an ex rally driver and test driver for a car manufactorer, modern high frequency 4 sensor ABS is more efficient than ANY driver. Safe and sad. Suits my age at 48

[Familyonthemove]

Maybe it will be better when only computers do everything when comes to driving cars then.

Cadence braking or stutter braking is an advanced driving technique used to allow a car to both steer and brake on a slippery surface.

In the past it would be used to effect an emergency stop where traction is limited, though for use in an emergency requires a presence of mind that the situation itself might preclude.

Cadence braking is supposed to maximize the time for the driver to steer around the obstacle ahead, as it allows him to steer while slowing.

It needs to be learned and practiced.

For most or maybe all drivers it has been entirely superseded by ABS, sad that ain't it.

True ... but it takes serious discipline and training to lift your foot off the pedal when you are about to hit something. I'd rather the computer did it for me hundreds of times a second.

PS I like your quote! "I luv bar girls resistance is futile you will be assimilated go to ATM immediately"

[Velocette]

There have been many thoughtful and insightful posts, however reading back through the the stats (admittedly many years ago now) the conclusion that cars with ABS are more likely to be involved in single-vehicle accidents, is really very spooky.

" They (ABS drivers ) are more likely to be involved in accidents fatal to the occupants of the ABS car, especially single-vehicle accidents. "

I just wonder why ? . . . .I always thought that single vehicle accidents, bikes or cars, were simply people driving beyond their abilities, often late at night, or early morning, probably pissed or stoned, or both. Why else would any group of drivers be involved in single vehicle accidents ? . . .off their heads, is an obvious answer, or is that too simplistic.

Why would these drivers, who must be in a high income bracket, and who could afford the luxury of safety features like ABS , be more likely to have an accident just driving along ? . . .I'm buggered if I know. But sometimes the obvious isn't really that obvious, if you know what I mean. . . . .it's a bleedin conundrum, an no mistake.

.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Velocette

[katabeachbum]

There have been many thoughtful and insightful posts, however reading back through the the stats (admittedly many years ago now) the conclusion that cars with ABS are more likely to be involved in single-vehicle accidents, is really very spooky.

" They (ABS drivers ) are more likely to be involved in accidents fatal to the occupants of the ABS car, especially single-vehicle accidents. "

I just wonder why ? . . . .I always thought that single vehicle accidents, bikes or cars, were simply people driving beyond their abilities, often late at night, or early morning, probably pissed or stoned, or both. Why else would any group of drivers be involved in single vehicle accidents ? . . .off their heads, is an obvious answer, or is that too simplistic.

Why would these drivers, who must be in a high income bracket, and who could afford the luxury of safety features like ABS , be more likely to have an accident just driving along ? . . .I'm buggered if I know. But sometimes the obvious isn't really that obvious, if you know what I mean. . . . .it's a bleedin conundrum, an no mistake.

.

single vehicle accidents are usually caused by the driver only

There is no secret well equipped and advanced cars are more involved in single accidents than less expensive cars. just read the sad facts of Audi Quattro (4wd) compared to its frontwheeldrive Audi sisters. The Quattros blow off the road despite MUCH better traction and handling

ABS increases safety margin. Some use an increased safety margin to go faster and drive more recklessly. as seen in stats. In a 10 year old pickup I keep 90 on the highways. In a good car I keep 160

[Velocette]

Thank's Kata,

" Single vehicle accidents are usually caused by the driver only

There is no secret well equipped and advanced cars are more involved in single accidents than less expensive cars. just read the sad facts of Audi Quattro (4wd) compared to its frontwheeldrive Audi sisters. The Quattros blow off the road despite MUCH better traction and handling

ABS increases safety margin. Some use an increased safety margin to go faster and drive more recklessly. as seen in stats. In a 10 year old pickup I keep 90 on the highways. In a good car I keep 160 "

I still find these stats bizarre , so despite all the money spent on Rn'D and all the advances in safety technology, many people just drive more recklessly, and feel invincible, the more well equipped and advanced their cars are.

If these people are pushing the limit all the time, how come they aren't involved just as much with multi vehicle accidents ? . .or do they just put their foot down when the road is empty ?

Either way, the only conclusion I can come to is that there chasing the high speed buzz , road speed junkies. I'm so lucky I'm poor, it keeps me outa harms way

[Kwasaki]

Maybe it will be better when only computers do everything when comes to driving cars then.

Cadence braking or stutter braking is an advanced driving technique used to allow a car to both steer and brake on a slippery surface.

In the past it would be used to effect an emergency stop where traction is limited, though for use in an emergency requires a presence of mind that the situation itself might preclude.

Cadence braking is supposed to maximize the time for the driver to steer around the obstacle ahead, as it allows him to steer while slowing.

It needs to be learned and practiced.

For most or maybe all drivers it has been entirely superseded by ABS, sad that ain't it.

as an ex rally driver and test driver for a car manufactorer, modern high frequency 4 sensor ABS is more efficient than ANY driver. Safe and sad. Suits my age at 48

Apart from the rich and poor thingy I still stick to what my point really is, if learner drivers of cars and motorbikes were taught skills at the start it would be a safer place on the road but they spend money on ABS and computers gizmo's instead.

This is all very fine to make cars safer but if you are in or behind or amongst cars that is not as good at braking etc etc as yours, what is the point.

Unless all cars on the road are upgraded to the new car standards what is the point.

In certain circumstances modern systems have failed with not good endings, hence recalls.

A badly taught driver with all the ABS, EBD & the TSC's may help but ain't the answer, that's why there are pilots in passenger planes still. well I hope so.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Kwasaki

[Deeral]

The cheapest option instead of ABS is to simply drive at a speed that allows you to stop easily and drive with enough distance between you and the car in front to allow for you to stop quickly in an emergency. Easy really.

Not exact;y - antilock braking systems prevent the wheels from locking for more than a split second. - even on diesel!

THe result is that the vehicle maintains it's directional control better, and usually comes to a halt more quickly.Locked wheels have lost their grip and the car is no longer braking effectively.

They are absolutely a must in 99.9% of all circumstances.

THis is regardless of your driving skills.

In many classes of motor-racing the ABS system was not allowed as it was considered to take from the skill of the driver - you just head for the corner as fast as you can a slam on the brakes - the wheels won't lock and round you go.

There are two aspects of road safety - active and passive - ABS falls into active and driver assistance - as such it helps to avoid accidents and limit their severity.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Deeral

[Deeral]

Maybe it will be better when only computers do everything when comes to driving cars then.

Cadence braking or stutter braking is an advanced driving technique used to allow a car to both steer and brake on a slippery surface.

In the past it would be used to effect an emergency stop where traction is limited, though for use in an emergency requires a presence of mind that the situation itself might preclude.

Cadence braking is supposed to maximize the time for the driver to steer around the obstacle ahead, as it allows him to steer while slowing.

It needs to be learned and practiced.

For most or maybe all drivers it has been entirely superseded by ABS, sad that ain't it.

as an ex rally driver and test driver for a car manufactorer, modern high frequency 4 sensor ABS is more efficient than ANY driver. Safe and sad. Suits my age at 48

Apart from the rich and poor thingy I still stick to what my point really is, if learner drivers of cars and motorbikes were taught skills at the start it would be a safer place on the road but they spend money on ABS and computers gizmo's instead.

This is all very fine to make cars safer but if you are in or behind or amongst cars that is not as good at braking etc etc as yours, what is the point.

Unless all cars on the road are upgraded to the new car standards what is the point.

In certain circumstances modern systems have failed with not good endings, hence recalls.

A badly taught driver with all the ABS, EBD & the TSC's may help but ain't the answer, that's why there are pilots in passenger planes still. well I hope so.

"Apart from the rich and poor thingy I still stick to what my point really is, if learner drivers of cars and motorbikes were taught skills at the start it would be a safer place on the road but they spend money on ABS and computers gizmo's instead." - this has to be a totally fallacious argument - how would the poster know what people do with their time and money? purely speculative.

the rest just doesn't really merit comment - it's too ludicrous.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Deeral

[transam]

ABS must be one of the finest advances in vehicle control and if you are a high milage driver it for sure at some time got you out of trouble.

We can be a superb safe driver but there are the odd times when a panic situation arises, with no time to think and two feet pound the brake pedal, l know l've done it.

Without ABS, lose it, skid and loose direction, especially in the wet, with ABS the system takes over what the brakes are doing to keep you straight and in control. ABS is a must for mr and mrs average driver.

My first car with ABS was a 1988/9 Volvo 760, 22 years ago.

Deerai, ABS is not a '' gizmo '', it is a lifesaver, and a must for those who will never understand or master driving skills or indeed their car.

[Deeral]

ABS must be one of the finest advances in vehicle control and if you are a high milage driver it for sure at some time got you out of trouble.

We can be a superb safe driver but there are the odd times when a panic situation arises, with no time to think and two feet pound the brake pedal, l know l've done it.

Without ABS, lose it, skid and loose direction, especially in the wet, with ABS the system takes over what the brakes are doing to keep you straight and in control. ABS is a must for mr and mrs average driver.

My first car with ABS was a 1988/9 Volvo 760, 22 years ago.

Deerai, ABS is not a '' gizmo '', it is a lifesaver, and a must for those who will never understand or master driving skills or indeed their car.

Transam - I completely despair of your comprehension skills - and yet again you obviously haven'y either read or understood my post.

You have made quite a few completely incorrect comments on my posts lately (even when you had previously been given an explanation) - I can only assume that you are some kind of stalker who would swear black is white if it meant you could gainsay a post of mine totally regardless of its content.

if you want to argue with someone you need to put forward an argument - this on past performance you seem incapable of doing.

[transam]

ABS must be one of the finest advances in vehicle control and if you are a high milage driver it for sure at some time got you out of trouble.

We can be a superb safe driver but there are the odd times when a panic situation arises, with no time to think and two feet pound the brake pedal, l know l've done it.

Without ABS, lose it, skid and loose direction, especially in the wet, with ABS the system takes over what the brakes are doing to keep you straight and in control. ABS is a must for mr and mrs average driver.

My first car with ABS was a 1988/9 Volvo 760, 22 years ago.

Deerai, ABS is not a '' gizmo '', it is a lifesaver, and a must for those who will never understand or master driving skills or indeed their car.

Transam - I completely despair of your comprehension skills - and yet again you obviously haven'y either read or understood my post.

You have made quite a few completely incorrect comments on my posts lately (even when you had previously been given an explanation) - I can only assume that you are some kind of stalker who would swear black is white if it meant you could gainsay a post of mine totally regardless of its content.

if you want to argue with someone you need to put forward an argument - this on past performance you seem incapable of doing.

Calm down dear, sorry Deerai,

Only my last sentence was aimed at you, which l think is in order, the rest of my post is real logic in reply the the thread topic so why get your knickers in a twist.

If replying to stuff that l have read is stalking then we are ALL stalkers to you eh.

[Deeral]

ABS must be one of the finest advances in vehicle control and if you are a high milage driver it for sure at some time got you out of trouble.

We can be a superb safe driver but there are the odd times when a panic situation arises, with no time to think and two feet pound the brake pedal, l know l've done it.

Without ABS, lose it, skid and loose direction, especially in the wet, with ABS the system takes over what the brakes are doing to keep you straight and in control. ABS is a must for mr and mrs average driver.

My first car with ABS was a 1988/9 Volvo 760, 22 years ago.

Deerai, ABS is not a '' gizmo '', it is a lifesaver, and a must for those who will never understand or master driving skills or indeed their car.

Transam - I completely despair of your comprehension skills - and yet again you obviously haven'y either read or understood my post.

You have made quite a few completely incorrect comments on my posts lately (even when you had previously been given an explanation) - I can only assume that you are some kind of stalker who would swear black is white if it meant you could gainsay a post of mine totally regardless of its content.

if you want to argue with someone you need to put forward an argument - this on past performance you seem incapable of doing.

Calm down dear, sorry Deerai,

Only my last sentence was aimed at you, which l think is in order, the rest of my post is real logic in reply the the thread topic so why get your knickers in a twist.

If replying to stuff that l have read is stalking then we are ALL stalkers to you eh.

How on EARTH is that last sentence relevant to my post???

Clearly "think" is out of your remit - utter nonsense from you as ever

[JetsetBkk]

No! Please explain.

Sarcasm? If not > How ABS works.

My car has ABS, EBD (Electronic brake distribution) and TSC (Traction Stability Control) plus dual front and side airbags. Belts and suspenders (braces for the Brits) for me.

Yes, sarcasm - well spotted, Tywais!

ABS has saved me from accidents at least twice, to my recollection.

Once, when a pickup joined a fast road from a parking position indicating left, so I moved over to let him join and then he did a slow U-turn. I missed him by a few feet with my ABS stuttering nicely. My fault? Probably - don't assume any Thai driver will notice whether you are there or not.

The second time I pulled away from traffic lights behind a songtheaw that suddenly slammed on the brakes. I stopped about two inches short of him with most of the rear passengers in shock. After I wiped my brow and mimed "Phew!" most of them started laughing, as did I. My fault? Definitely.

Two close calls in eight years driving in looney-tunes Phuket. Not bad.

PS. My g/f just banged her brand new Mazda 2 after one week.

[Kwasaki]

Oh !! Lord and master of the motor forum hear my cry, not all motors on the road have these safety feature I only answered the op question with my own opinion, no need to make insulting remarks.