Thailand Rejects Foreign Election Monitors

[vont]

PERSONAL INTERESTS:

Perhaps unsuspecting to many farang, these duputies are also in control of many numerous biz ventures chaired by different members of the family.

These family controlled biz are in the front line to receive concessions from Camb HuSen et al. Look into concessions granted by HuSen to explore and develop marines and mineral deposits and decide for yourself if those concessions are called personal interests and conflicting interests in more developed countries.

<snip>

Shame, shame and more shame.

Do you know any specifics of these deputies family businesses getting concessions? Or is it just something that you've been told?

I won't be writing laying out specifics, if there was no fire.

What was written up here amounts to less than 1% of what has been going on in the name of peace and prosperity concocted up by sharp wit representatives and senators.

If you have a chance try to have a conversation with CharLerm U. who resigns less than 48 hrs ago regarding what has been really going on behind the scene.

Besides, for your info, there are other farang who know much more than I do because they are the go between to conceal identities of those who do not wish to be known at the moment.

Just to wet your curiosity, if you have some free time on hand and if you can converse reasonably well in Thai, engage some of the Thai newsperson, if the atmosphere is conducive you might learn aplenty in one night.

Many of my pieces are drawn from first hand experience as a primary source. Sometimes, it is much better not to know, life would be much more peaceful that way. But then, I am an adventurist, I need to know what I want to know. LOL

[Nisa]

Imagine if a Western politician said he didn't respect a race of people and referred to them with an often derogatory and demeaning racial epithet.

It would be quite rightly be deemed unacceptable and the politician would have to explain and be held responsible for his comments.

Not so here, where Thai people in positions of power know that they are exempt from responsibility for their actions and actively encourage bigotry, racism and nationalism to further their own agendas.

I disagree in your comparison. It is not uncommon for Minority politicians in the west (at least in the US) to make comments that attack those with more power than them as well as accusing them of bad intentions against their people. In other words it is much more okay to slam other groups, societies or people that are stronger when it is done by those with less power.

As for Farang being a derogatory term, it is not. Although it generally used to describe white westerners it also can simply mean foreigners. Thailand is a different culture and they have no issue with calling a race or group what they are. Asian is by no means a derogatory term but it would be considered derogatory in the West for a waiter to tell the busboy to get those Asians a drink. In Thailand this it is perfectly acceptable.

While I have no doubt he made a mistake in the words he chose (if translated properly) I am very confident his words were not meant to be racist in any way shape or form. But bottom line is this is not the West and it is their country run on the way they choose good or bad and it is not our place to tell them how to do things or that they should obey political correctness that may exist in the west and we should be offended when they don't adhere to our views. They may fail but it will be their failure and they certainly have the right to pick and choose how they will use the west to further their goals. The bottom line we are guests in THEIR country and WE need to adapt to them ... not the other way around.

Edited March 25, 2011 by Nisa

[whybother]

I won't be writing laying out specifics, if there was no fire.

What was written up here amounts to less than 1% of what has been going on in the name of peace and prosperity concocted up by sharp wit representatives and senators.

If you have a chance try to have a conversation with CharLerm U. who resigns less than 48 hrs ago regarding what has been really going on behind the scene.

Besides, for your info, there are other farang who know much more than I do because they are the go between to conceal identities of those who do not wish to be known at the moment.

Just to wet your curiosity, if you have some free time on hand and if you can converse reasonably well in Thai, engage some of the Thai newsperson, if the atmosphere is conducive you might learn aplenty in one night.

Many of my pieces are drawn from first hand experience as a primary source. Sometimes, it is much better not to know, life would be much more peaceful that way. But then, I am an adventurist, I need to know what I want to know. LOL

No specifics, so just hearsay and propaganda.

[surayu]

I am very confident his words were not meant to be racist in any way shape or form.

.....we are guests in THEIR country and WE need to adapt to them ...

Priceless

[thaihome]

I know abit of Thai and I don't think this man didn't really mean he 'disrespects' farangs. In fact the use of the word 'farang' is imformal. He should be very careful with his choice of words if he is a public servant who is very much exposed to media. If he chose to say he disregards foreign intervention into Thai polls, that might be more acceptable.

We don’t actually know what he said; all we have is one person’s translation of what he said.

TH

[ChiangMaiFun]

I reckon the Dems will win anyway and in the subsequent cabinet reshuffle, Suthep will get Foreign Minister portfolio.

ideal job! he's a consummate diplomat - and Thailand will gain so much respect in the international community for giving it to such an intelligent, wise and gifted individual

[ChiangMaiFun]

I know abit of Thai and I don't think this man didn't really mean he 'disrespects' farangs. In fact the use of the word 'farang' is imformal. He should be very careful with his choice of words if he is a public servant who is very much exposed to media. If he chose to say he disregards foreign intervention into Thai polls, that might be more acceptable.

you don't know Suthept! of course he meant it

[random]

Who is bashing? I was simply comparing national pride. Being an American I used them as an example as well as a line from an American movie called "Head of State" where one of the characters running for President often used the phrase, "God bless America and nowhere else" when he closed a speech.

The bottom line is that I highly doubt he said this to be taken in the context it being viewed by many people here. It is not uncommon for 2nd- in-command type people to make stupid comments. I'm sure his intention was a statement to do with national pride and trying to say it in a strong/emotional way to turn people against the Reds for suggesting outsiders be part of Thai election process.

I by no means am a fan of this guy and think he, again like many 2nd-in-command types, is not the sharpest tool in the shed.

So you want to equate a line in a piece of fiction, to a statement from the deputy PM of a country, are you really suggesting they amount to the same thing??

has any american politician ACTUALLY made that statement, or is it purely a work of a scriptwriter??

In your desire to keep the Thai tinted specs on you also seem to have not noticed that while wearing them all logic goes out of the window, I am worried about how Thai you are becoming, first you support all things Thai no matter how wrong they are, then you blame the farangs or say it is ok for Thais to do it as there was a line once in an american film, next you will be riding a bike without a helmet, picking your nose at the traffic lights, losing all concept of spacial awareness and stop reading books.

[random]

I reckon the Dems will win anyway and in the subsequent cabinet reshuffle, Suthep will get Foreign Minister portfolio.

ideal job! he's a consummate diplomat - and Thailand will gain so much respect in the international community for giving it to such an intelligent, wise and gifted individual

Like kasit

[saraburioz]

Did he actually say "farang"?

I doubt it. So why is that derogatory, racial word in the title of this thread?

it makes me want to vomit also hearing Westerners calling themselves "farang". Even worse are the ignoramuses who call themselves, 'falung'.

[alaninkarachi]

Why not suggest to good old David Cammeron that we invite Thai Observers to our elections? Or for the non UK readers please ask your governments to invite the Thia Election Committee to observe your elections?..... Just an idea....Then we can all spend out time looking over each others shoulders.

[Pi Sek]

Imagine if a Western politician said he didn't respect a race of people and referred to them with an often derogatory and demeaning racial epithet.

It would be quite rightly be deemed unacceptable and the politician would have to explain and be held responsible for his comments.

Not so here, where Thai people in positions of power know that they are exempt from responsibility for their actions and actively encourage bigotry, racism and nationalism to further their own agendas.

I disagree in your comparison. It is not uncommon for Minority politicians in the west (at least in the US) to make comments that attack those with more power than them as well as accusing them of bad intentions against their people. In other words it is much more okay to slam other groups, societies or people that are stronger when it is done by those with less power.

As for Farang being a derogatory term, it is not. Although it generally used to describe white westerners it also can simply mean foreigners. Thailand is a different culture and they have no issue with calling a race or group what they are. Asian is by no means a derogatory term but it would be considered derogatory in the West for a waiter to tell the busboy to get those Asians a drink. In Thailand this it is perfectly acceptable.

While I have no doubt he made a mistake in the words he chose (if translated properly) I am very confident his words were not meant to be racist in any way shape or form. But bottom line is this is not the West and it is their country run on the way they choose good or bad and it is not our place to tell them how to do things or that they should obey political correctness that may exist in the west and we should be offended when they don't adhere to our views. They may fail but it will be their failure and they certainly have the right to pick and choose how they will use the west to further their goals. The bottom line we are guests in THEIR country and WE need to adapt to them ... not the other way around.

I in turn disagree with your comparison. You're right in saying we are guests in this country, but we also also bring undeniably-positive assets to Thailand that they wouldn't have if we weren't here. Thais know this and Thai politicians should absolutely know this. Also, remember in Thai culture that the host offers to the guest, so again the fact that we are guests shouldn't deprive us of any right to suggestion as to how they can improve their country (I worded that carefully to make it clear that this is their choice, regardless of how much or little influence foreign culture and business has).

Notwithstanding his own personal feelings, Suthep's comment was a political mistake and I expect the opposition to reference it in the next censure debate when it comes around.

As for whether "farang" is racist... yes, I think it is, but not in the same way that Westerners' understanding of racism (a slur does not have to be derogatory to be offensive - but in Asian culture it does). It can be used in a derogatory way or a non-derogatory way, and I have used it in both contexts myself. When using the term to describe a group of people (e.g. "those farangs over there come from England") it is not generally derogatory. When using the term to describe a group of people who do not deserve respect (e.g. Suthep's "I don't respect farangs" or "farangs don't respect temples and get drunk all the time") it is plain offensive, especially when using the word "farang" instead of "khon dang chat" or "khon dang prathet". Thais are quite aware of this, in case you didn't know - no matter what they tell you. That's why, when a little kid in a small village somewhere might point at you and say "farang" to his/her mother because not many farangs are seen where they live, the mother will say something to tell the child to be quiet and offer a sheepish smile. Farang is not an offensive word on its own, but can be quite nasty in certain contexts.

As to whether Suthep's comments were the result of a dodgy translation - well, he really shouldn't have used the word 'farang' as I say above. Still though, let's give him the benefit of the doubt for argument's sake and he meant to say "We don't need foreign election monitors because this is a Thai election and we don't respect outsiders coming in and making judgements on how evolved the Thais are as a race" - well, that sounds rather indignant at the suggestion that they needed one in the first place, rather than a slur on how little he respects westerners. It still sounds like a rather offensive viewpoint, whichever way you look at it. As said above, this was a real political slip-up from my least favourite person in the Democrat-led coalition (and that's saying something given some of the unsavoury characters tied into it).

Edited March 25, 2011 by Pi Sek

[Huey]

As much as I hated the Bush fiasco in 2000 when with the help of his brother Jeb in Florida, I can't say that I would have wanted Foreign monitors in the US either.

[rotary]

Does anybody really believe that western elections are without fraud also? I include the USA, UK, etc. While I do not think there is fraud in every election in the western world I do believe there is election fraud in the western countries that does happen.

The run up to the election is what they should be concerned with first. Then monitor the voting place. Let the people police themselves . The Thai voter as do other countries voters deserve what they legally vote into office. When, not if, unlawful acts are alleged/proven, disqualify every candidate of that party in the Province. Then press charges against those involved.

Sorry let me rephrase that.

Do not allow foreign independent witnesses in the first place.

1) Monitor the whole process yourself so that you can see if any voting deviates from that with which you wish.

2) Whatever the end result people deserve it (unless it doesnt happen to be the end result that we want in which case we will change it.)

3) If individual results are not to our liking we will disqualify the candidate and anyone who is connected to him from the election.

4) We will then charge them (maybe) and lock them up.

5) P.S. if you think you are going to vote in Thaksin again, you must be joking.... you have tried that at least twice and we have made it clear that it is unacceptable. So please stop.

[whybother]

Did he actually say "farang"?

I doubt it. So why is that derogatory, racial word in the title of this thread?

it makes me want to vomit also hearing Westerners calling themselves "farang". Even worse are the ignoramuses who call themselves, 'falung'.

"I don't respect 'farangs'. We do not have to surrender to them," he said, using the Thai word for "Westerners".

Given that the OP specifically says that he said "farang", I would think that he said "farang".

As to the context of it, it would be good to get audio of the statement to hear what he actually said in the rest of the statement.

[whybother]

Why not suggest to good old David Cammeron that we invite Thai Observers to our elections? Or for the non UK readers please ask your governments to invite the Thia Election Committee to observe your elections?..... Just an idea....Then we can all spend out time looking over each others shoulders.

I think that would be an excellent idea. They could learn something by observing some western elections.

[stevecm]

Who is bashing? I was simply comparing national pride. Being an American I used them as an example as well as a line from an American movie called "Head of State" where one of the characters running for President often used the phrase, "God bless America and nowhere else" when he closed a speech.

The bottom line is that I highly doubt he said this to be taken in the context it being viewed by many people here. It is not uncommon for 2nd- in-command type people to make stupid comments. I'm sure his intention was a statement to do with national pride and trying to say it in a strong/emotional way to turn people against the Reds for suggesting outsiders be part of Thai election process.

I by no means am a fan of this guy and think he, again like many 2nd-in-command types, is not the sharpest tool in the shed.

So you want to equate a line in a piece of fiction, to a statement from the deputy PM of a country, are you really suggesting they amount to the same thing??

has any american politician ACTUALLY made that statement, or is it purely a work of a scriptwriter??

In your desire to keep the Thai tinted specs on you also seem to have not noticed that while wearing them all logic goes out of the window, I am worried about how Thai you are becoming, first you support all things Thai no matter how wrong they are, then you blame the farangs or say it is ok for Thais to do it as there was a line once in an american film, next you will be riding a bike without a helmet, picking your nose at the traffic lights, losing all concept of spacial awareness and stop reading books.

+10

[sandgroper2]

Suthep's comments might seem a bit harsh and inappropriate (they are!), but if you ask any Thai - who isn't an ardent red shirt - how they feel about foreign election monitors, you'll probably get a similar response!

From various discussions with pretty well educated Thais about condominium investment and purchasing many said they were happy for other Thais (rich) to take advantage of them and accepted it as the way Thailand is, but were indignant about foreigners doing it as wrong and immoral.

You can only laugh...

or complain on internet forums.

Geez my Thai wife owns three properties in Melbourne Australia and that includes the land.

Why are they in her name and not yours? Guess she must have over one million dollars of her own money when your met her. Good for you .

[KKK]

:jerk: Suthep Suthep Suthep Suthep

[connor6063]

Well you cant blame thai people for not liking farangs. Alot of creepy old horny men coming to thailand for sex.

[wlcart]

No surprise here. In my experience living in Thailand, Thai's do not care much for being challenged, observed or accounted.

They basically fear others witnessing them failing in any sort of way. Failing in private does not concern them so much, but failing in public terrifies them. They see observable failing as demonstration of weakness and they lack the true confidence needed to show imperfections. Ask a Thai person any question they do not know the answer and watch them feel uncomfortable and nervous.

I am sure the Thai government and the Thai governed both want as little outside observation as they can get away with.

[ginjag]

Imagine if a Western politician said he didn't respect a race of people and referred to them with an often derogatory and demeaning racial epithet.

It would be quite rightly be deemed unacceptable and the politician would have to explain and be held responsible for his comments.

Not so here, where Thai people in positions of power know that they are exempt from responsibility for their actions and actively encourage bigotry, racism and nationalism to further their own agendas.

I disagree in your comparison. It is not uncommon for Minority politicians in the west (at least in the US) to make comments that attack those with more power than them as well as accusing them of bad intentions against their people. In other words it is much more okay to slam other groups, societies or people that are stronger when it is done by those with less power.

As for Farang being a derogatory term, it is not. Although it generally used to describe white westerners it also can simply mean foreigners. Thailand is a different culture and they have no issue with calling a race or group what they are. Asian is by no means a derogatory term but it would be considered derogatory in the West for a waiter to tell the busboy to get those Asians a drink. In Thailand this it is perfectly acceptable.

While I have no doubt he made a mistake in the words he chose (if translated properly) I am very confident his words were not meant to be racist in any way shape or form. But bottom line is this is not the West and it is their country run on the way they choose good or bad and it is not our place to tell them how to do things or that they should obey political correctness that may exist in the west and we should be offended when they don't adhere to our views. They may fail but it will be their failure and they certainly have the right to pick and choose how they will use the west to further their goals. The bottom line we are guests in THEIR country and WE need to adapt to them ... not the other way around.

I cannot understand your blatent stance on anything anti Thai, it is that strong it's rediculous. Truths about irregularities, scams, all the rip offs, affecting us GUESTS, SHUT our mouths???? Quote- 'We need to adapt to them" If 'it's not our place to tell them how to do things' a critic of something wrong is o.k.-according to you it is not. and as a guest here why as an American are you trying to tell ex pats here what to do, Your only a guest-remember.

[wlcart]

Well you cant blame thai people for not liking farangs. Alot of creepy old horny men coming to thailand for sex.

Yes and having sex with creepy young horny Thai women.

[saraburioz]

Did he actually say "farang"?

I doubt it. So why is that derogatory, racial word in the title of this thread?

it makes me want to vomit also hearing Westerners calling themselves "farang". Even worse are the ignoramuses who call themselves, 'falung'.

"I don't respect 'farangs'. We do not have to surrender to them," he said, using the Thai word for "Westerners".

Given that the OP specifically says that he said "farang", I would think that he said "farang".

As to the context of it, it would be good to get audio of the statement to hear what he actually said in the rest of the statement.

Maybe the OP hasn't been in Thailand long and can't understand the derogatory nature of the word. Generally, you only hear the boys straight off the boat use this word.

[agentpaddy]

Well....I certainly don't want to be where I'm not wanted. Panama has a wonderful retirement program for ex-pats full of tax credits and discounts, is not a military dictatorship and doesn't censor the newspapers or the internet.

I suppose I'll get arrested for posting this.

[wlcart]

Did he actually say "farang"?

I doubt it. So why is that derogatory, racial word in the title of this thread?

it makes me want to vomit also hearing Westerners calling themselves "farang". Even worse are the ignoramuses who call themselves, 'falung'.

"I don't respect 'farangs'. We do not have to surrender to them," he said, using the Thai word for "Westerners".

Given that the OP specifically says that he said "farang", I would think that he said "farang".

As to the context of it, it would be good to get audio of the statement to hear what he actually said in the rest of the statement.

Maybe the OP hasn't been in Thailand long and can't understand the derogatory nature of the word. Generally, you only hear the boys straight off the boat use this word.

If gone week long stretches in Thailand thinking that "farang" was my name as it was the only word used to refer to me.

Edited March 25, 2011 by wlcart

[Grey11]

Suthep's comments might seem a bit harsh and inappropriate (they are!), but if you ask any Thai - who isn't an ardent red shirt - how they feel about foreign election monitors, you'll probably get a similar response!

Very stupid and unprofessional for such a senior government official to voice his lack of respect, actually hate, for farangs. Those of us who have lived in Thailand for awhile permanently learn that the vast majority of Thai men not only do not respect us, but hate all farangs. They see us as someone they can lie to and rip off. Thai men do not want us in this country. The Immigration laws get tougher every year trying to throw us out. Those farangs who believe more than 10% of Thai men do not hate them, open your eyes and ears. We are the enemy.

[softgeorge]

Is this man fit to be a senior government official? Can you imagine this guy as the thai Foriegn Minister.

[zthyadat]

Suthep's comments might seem a bit harsh and inappropriate (they are!), but if you ask any Thai - who isn't an ardent red shirt - how they feel about foreign election monitors, you'll probably get a similar response!

From various discussions with pretty well educated Thais about condominium investment and purchasing many said they were happy for other Thais (rich) to take advantage of them and accepted it as the way Thailand is, but were indignant about foreigners doing it as wrong and immoral.

You can only laugh...

or complain on internet forums.

Geez my Thai wife owns three properties in Melbourne Australia and that includes the land.

Wow that is amazing. My dog is half Chinese.

If this is a direct quote, it was poorly structured. I doubt he actually meant 'I do not respect Westerners'. Read in context, I understand what he (hopefully) means, and I would expect most people on here would feel the same way if it was their country.

For example, if it was David Cameron that said 'I do not respect the use of Asian election monitoring organizations as I believe that it would imply that we are unable to democratically monitor our own country's election'. Then I am pretty sure most people would understand.

But using the word "farang" as it appears he did, is definitely pejorative. It's never too far below the surface of a lot of Thais, unfortunately.

[ginjag]

Well you cant blame thai people for not liking farangs. Alot of creepy old horny men coming to thailand for sex.

Whether they are creepy --horney--whatever race, the Thais are waiting at the airport, resorts, for the visa, proves they just like money then doesn;t it ???