Notarized Letter From Us Embassy Stating Income

[Schooner]

I just got my retirement visa at Jomtien last week and not a question about income. I did provide a copy of my Thai bank account (which showed a balance around 600,000 tb) and the whole process was quick and painless. The embassy (US) letter verifying income was never questioned. I was under the impression that all I needed was the income letter, but was told by fellow expats that they want the bank book also.

I returned to Thailand in Dec after living in the US for a few years and I asked the immigration officer if she had the record of my previous retirement history on their computer and she did. She asked if I owned my home and I told her I do so she asked why I didn't bring my book. She seemed interested in verifying my financial status, but didn't make a big deal about it.

A couple of friends have recently gone through the process and had a similar experence. I have to sat that the process seemed much smoother and professional than it was 6 years ago at the old Pattaya office.

[craigt3365]

I just got my retirement visa at Jomtien last week and not a question about income. I did provide a copy of my Thai bank account (which showed a balance around 600,000 tb) and the whole process was quick and painless. The embassy (US) letter verifying income was never questioned. I was under the impression that all I needed was the income letter, but was told by fellow expats that they want the bank book also.

I returned to Thailand in Dec after living in the US for a few years and I asked the immigration officer if she had the record of my previous retirement history on their computer and she did. She asked if I owned my home and I told her I do so she asked why I didn't bring my book. She seemed interested in verifying my financial status, but didn't make a big deal about it.

A couple of friends have recently gone through the process and had a similar experence. I have to sat that the process seemed much smoother and professional than it was 6 years ago at the old Pattaya office.

Was your bank book copy an official letter from the bank? I went in with a copy 2 weeks ago and had to go out and get the official letter. Income was more than sufficient and my bank book showed 300K Baht or so.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

My understanding at Jomtien is that the requirement to show a Thai bank account with any balance (and a bank letter) has been a requirement for years now even for those qualifying by the income letter only. Probably one of those office to office variances. No relation to the possible new policy about verification of income letter for Americans at Bangkok.

Chang Wattana, Friday, male American, female Thai Immigration officer, U.S. Embassy "proof of income" letter.

Her: Sir, American, I see,

Him: Yes, and here's my Embassy letter.

Her: Ah, did you provide the U.S. Embassy with any backup documentation for that letter?

Him: No, not required.

Her: Well, it's required here these days.

Him: OK, here's what I have....

Her: Fine, retirement extension approved....

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Above from a conversation at lunch today, Saturday, and no, not a "April Fools" comment. No question or comment about possible application of this requirement at other Immigration offices.

Mac

[Jingthing]

So far sounds like an enforcement policy change for at least one Bangkok office. I think there is enough evidence now for Americans using that office to avoid pain and be sure to be super honest at the embassy AND bring documentation to immigration. (Until further notice.) For the paranoid/cautious using other offices, you might want to do the same or at least apply early enough if there is a problem you still have time to gather documentation.

Her: Ah, did you provide the U.S. Embassy with any backup documentation for that letter?

That's a very weird kind of loaded question because if you said yes, you would be obviously lying as they don't even want or accept such documentation there.

Edited April 2, 2011 by Jingthing

[tropo]

Went to Sakon Nakhon immigration today for my extension based on retirement. Sakon Nakhon immigration accepted my US Embassy Letter for proof of income but now they require the foreigner to have a Thai bank account. This is a new requirement in the last month according to the officer that did my extension. I asked him why they are now requiring a bank account. He said, "New boss, new rules", as he was rolling his eyes skyward. New rules do not require a minimum balance, only that you have a bank account so I went to Krung Thai bank and opened a saving account with Baht 500, returned to immigration with copies of my new passbook and everybody was happy.

When I did my first retirement extension in Sakon Nakhon in dec 2009, they also required a letter from the bank together with the book. Even though the letter from my embassy showed a monthly income well over 65,000 per month.

The bank letter was also required last year in Jomtien for a retirement based on monthy income. 5000 in the account was enough.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

My understanding at Jomtien is that the requirement to show a Thai bank account with any balance (and a bank letter) has been a requirement for years now even for those qualifying by the income letter only. Probably one of those office to office variances. No relation to the possible new policy about verification of income letter for Americans at Bangkok.

Chang Wattana, Friday, male American, female Thai Immigration officer, U.S. Embassy "proof of income" letter.

Her: Sir, American, I see,

Him: Yes, and here's my Embassy letter.

Her: Ah, did you provide the U.S. Embassy with any backup documentation for that letter?

Him: No, not required.

Her: Well, it's required here these days.

Him: OK, here's what I have....

Her: Fine, retirement extension approved....

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Above from a conversation at lunch today, Saturday, and no, not a "April Fools" comment. No question or comment about possible application of this requirement at other Immigration offices.

Mac

Below an email from a friend in Minn Buri who's AmCit son was doing his extension up in Phits.

Mac

My son processed last week in Phitsanulok and was asked for verification.

He says it was a bit strange. Office had moved, completely different staff,

mai paa saa ang grit, and a strong hint for tea money.?

Phitsanulok and retirement extension. He had done his 90-day and asked if he

could process annual a week early which they did.

He showed the Embassy letter and was asked for backup, He had SCB Book and a

printout of his West Coast Bank Statement which were accepted and extension

approved.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[kokesaat]

And how difficult would it be for someone to create a 'bank statement' on a computer? Not that I would ever recommend such a thing.

[jazzbo]

from post #127: And how difficult would it be for someone to create a 'bank statement' on a computer? ... Maybe not all that difficult for a skilled Adobe InDesign-type guy but -- since the gent prior said he printed the statement from an online USA account -- the Thai IMM people if in doubt could always just ask you to log-in on their computer so they can see the statement real-time... and then change the password when you get home

Edited April 3, 2011 by jazzbo

[Jingthing]

If people are going to carry fraud to that level of forging documents to show immigration, well, I don't know how they sleep at night.

[lopburi3]

Fraudulent documents would get them a long sleep in IDC I suspect. Do not even consider such activities - use of such paperwork is a real crime here (regardless of the impression some sellers may provide).

[bluebluewater]

Although this thread will probably die out soon I will remain interested in what others experiences are like as my time for extension comes up in a couple of months. The office is out at Pathum Thani - a small back water office and I'm never sure what goofyness I will find there. I will be using only the letter from the American embassy and do not at this time have a bank account in Thailand. Indeed, I really do not want one and certainly have no intention of moving a bunch of USD here just in order to stay here. A few thousand baht I would do but not several hundred thousand.

[tropo]

Although this thread will probably die out soon I will remain interested in what others experiences are like as my time for extension comes up in a couple of months. The office is out at Pathum Thani - a small back water office and I'm never sure what goofyness I will find there. I will be using only the letter from the American embassy and do not at this time have a bank account in Thailand. Indeed, I really do not want one and certainly have no intention of moving a bunch of USD here just in order to stay here. A few thousand baht I would do but not several hundred thousand.

At Jomtien you need a bank letter even when using the income letter method. It really is no big deal - I showed them an account with 5000.

Edited April 3, 2011 by tropo

[jazzbo]

Body language can be the giveaway ...

[craigt3365]

Although this thread will probably die out soon I will remain interested in what others experiences are like as my time for extension comes up in a couple of months. The office is out at Pathum Thani - a small back water office and I'm never sure what goofyness I will find there. I will be using only the letter from the American embassy and do not at this time have a bank account in Thailand. Indeed, I really do not want one and certainly have no intention of moving a bunch of USD here just in order to stay here. A few thousand baht I would do but not several hundred thousand.

Hmmm...how do you deal with money them? Just use ATMs? Aren't the fees quite high? Opening an account here is easy...and transferring money here is easy and cheap. I like the ability to get cash at pretty much any ATM with my Bangkok Bank ATM card and if it is another bank, it's only 20B, at most. I do a transfer every 3 months or so...just enough to live on.

And once you have this account, just get a letter from the bank and you have no worries at immigration. I'm pretty sure I would not have gotten a retirement visa without a local account. Even though I have proven sufficient income that I don't need the bank account to help out.

[JRinger]

So far sounds like an enforcement policy change for at least one Bangkok office. I think there is enough evidence now for Americans using that office to avoid pain and be sure to be super honest at the embassy AND bring documentation to immigration. (Until further notice.) For the paranoid/cautious using other offices, you might want to do the same or at least apply early enough if there is a problem you still have time to gather documentation.

Her: Ah, did you provide the U.S. Embassy with any backup documentation for that letter?

That's a very weird kind of loaded question because if you said yes, you would be obviously lying as they don't even want or accept such documentation there.

...and after some influencial person reads this and other similar 'informative' posts, things may very well change, as they have in the past....

[Jingthing]

So far sounds like an enforcement policy change for at least one Bangkok office. I think there is enough evidence now for Americans using that office to avoid pain and be sure to be super honest at the embassy AND bring documentation to immigration. (Until further notice.) For the paranoid/cautious using other offices, you might want to do the same or at least apply early enough if there is a problem you still have time to gather documentation.

Her: Ah, did you provide the U.S. Embassy with any backup documentation for that letter?

That's a very weird kind of loaded question because if you said yes, you would be obviously lying as they don't even want or accept such documentation there.

...and after some influencial person reads this and other similar 'informative' posts, things may very well change, as they have in the past....

If you are saying what I think you are saying, that top immigration officials don't ALREADY know about the USA embassy income letter policy, then I sincerely believe you are wrong. This information has been out there and discussed many times here on this forum for MANY YEARS now. Or maybe you are saying the USA embassy will start requiring documentation in response to the response of Thai immigration. That's possible I suppose. Edited April 4, 2011 by Jingthing

[JRinger]

So far sounds like an enforcement policy change for at least one Bangkok office. I think there is enough evidence now for Americans using that office to avoid pain and be sure to be super honest at the embassy AND bring documentation to immigration. (Until further notice.) For the paranoid/cautious using other offices, you might want to do the same or at least apply early enough if there is a problem you still have time to gather documentation.

Her: Ah, did you provide the U.S. Embassy with any backup documentation for that letter?

That's a very weird kind of loaded question because if you said yes, you would be obviously lying as they don't even want or accept such documentation there.

...and after some influencial person reads this and other similar 'informative' posts, things may very well change, as they have in the past....

If you are saying what I think you are saying, that top immigration officials don't ALREADY know about the USA embassy income letter policy, then I sincerely believe you are wrong. This information has been out there and discussed many times here on this forum for MANY YEARS now. Or maybe you are saying the USA embassy will start requiring documentation in response to the response of Thai immigration. That's possible I suppose.

exactly...

[Jingthing]

You never know, but I don't know why the US embassy should change. There are reports they are already telling people additional documentation may be asked by Thai immigration. Why should they bother making more work for themselves? It ain't broke from their point of view; it's the expats burden to prove to immigration if needed.

[theoldgit]

So wouldn'tit be easier if the Thai Immigration Officials just cut out the stupid, expensiveand time consuming, letters from respective embassies and just asked for proofof income from the person making the application.

I suppose this would be ok in theory but reading other threads about thediffering ways people prove their income maybe it might just might be too problematicalfor them.

[Jingthing]

So wouldn'tit be easier if the Thai Immigration Officials just cut out the stupid, expensiveand time consuming, letters from respective embassies and just asked for proofof income from the person making the application.

I suppose this would be ok in theory but reading other threads about thediffering ways people prove their income maybe it might just might be too problematicalfor them.

Not sure the embassies would like that. It's a money spinner, yes?

[jazzbo]

from post #`136 Or maybe you are saying the USA embassy will start requiring documentation in response to the response of Thai immigration. That's possible I suppose. Most likely NOT possible as the requirements for document certification at US Embassies is the same all over the world. i.e. document certification of US documents must originate in the USA and not elsewhere.

[Jingthing]

from post #`136 Or maybe you are saying the USA embassy will start requiring documentation in response to the response of Thai immigration. That's possible I suppose. Most likely NOT possible as the requirements for document certification at US Embassies is the same all over the world. i.e. document certification of US documents must originate in the USA and not elsewhere.

Thanks for that. Sounds logical. Frankly, if it becomes widespread that Thai immigration asks for more backup info to support income letters from nationals whose embassies don't verify the income, the issue then becomes how reasonable Thai immigration is in what they accept as evidence. It may indeed be a burden to provide "official" evidence in some cases but easy to present other kinds of evidence such as printouts from the net. Also, if a retired US applicant has reasonably proven they get old age based social security one year, it seems reasonable that they would be believed that they get that for life (as they do).

Edited April 4, 2011 by Jingthing

[theoldgit]

Not sure the embassies would like that. It's a money spinner, yes?

Indeed it is, though to be fair it's not a requirement of the embassies.

Certainly in the case of my embassy, UK, the current charge is 2408 Baht (it goes up in a day or two) and it's processed by a locally employed member of staff earning in the region of 1350 Baht per day, so yes I have to agree it certainly appears to be a money spinner.

[tropo]

You never know, but I don't know why the US embassy should change. There are reports they are already telling people additional documentation may be asked by Thai immigration. Why should they bother making more work for themselves? It ain't broke from their point of view; it's the expats burden to prove to immigration if needed.

You may find this interesting.

Here is a paragraph from an email I received from the Australian Consulate in March last year which proves that certain immigration offices asking for additional verification is nothing new:-

"Some Thai Immigration offices also want you to present a letter from Centrelink or your pension provider, confirming the amount of your regular payment. Please check with your local immigration office on whether they require this. Some offices want you to get the Embassy to make a Certified True Copy (March 2010 cost is THB 880 - we need to see the original of the letter, not a copy). However not every Immigration office requires this, so please check beforehand"

Edited April 4, 2011 by tropo

[JimGant]

...Thai immigration asks for more backup info to support income letters from nationals whose embassies don't verify the income,

Do any embassies actually verify income?

The following from New Zealand is illustrative:

The process is: You make a statutory declaration at the embassy, declaring what your income is. You should provide some supporting evidence of this. We put a 'seen at embassy' stamp on the supporting documents, such as copies of bank statements (i.e. we don't certify it as correct).

So, while the Yank "affirms he receives xx$ per month...", the Kiwi "affirms -- and we took an uncertifiable looksee -- he receives...." This gives Immigration a warm, fuzzy...?

Has anyone ever had their income documents authenticated by their embassy, rather than just reviewed? And for those that do review your papertrail, just exactly what is the wording on the document your embassy signs-off on? Theoldgit, what does your UK document say? (I bet it says nothing about the validity of the papers reviewed.)

Anyway, if Immigration wants to review papertrails of those who embassies do not, no big deal -- if they don't insist on jumping through all the hoops of "legalization" (which would be onerous, particularly since Thailand is not a Hague Convention signee). The following, however, is kind of ominous:

Some [immigration] offices want you to get the Embassy to make a Certified True Copy (March 2010 cost is THB 880 - we need to see the original of the letter, not a copy). However not every Immigration office requires this, so please check beforehand"

Have not seen an example of this... But, if true, sounds like a possible first-step in added time-consuming hurdles...[Can't believe, however, Immigration wants to see a 'certified copy' of a Russian's cyrillic pension statement.. Even when translated, it would probably seem nonsensical. That's why they like the Embassies to supposedly 'validate.']

If following the Kiwi example (stamping "seen at embassy" on income statements) makes Immigration back-off, I would hope the US embassy would invest in such a stamp.

[tropo]

Some [immigration] offices want you to get the Embassy to make a Certified True Copy (March 2010 cost is THB 880 - we need to see the original of the letter, not a copy). However not every Immigration office requires this, so please check beforehand"

Have not seen an example of this... But, if true, sounds like a possible first-step in added time-consuming hurdles

You've quoted a direct quote from an email I received from the Australian Embassy a year ago. Are you suggesting that maybe the Australian Embassy is misleading its citizens with lies.

It would seem fairly obvious they mentioned this because such evidence has been required at some immigration office/s in the past. We have now seen a number of recent reports on here where this evidence has been required.

How much more evidence do you require?

Bear in mind that the reports you read on here are a minute fraction of real life experiences.

When I went for my retirement extension last year based on income I brought evidence with me just to be safe. I shall continue to do so.

[JimGant]

Some offices want you to get the Embassy to make a Certified True Copy (March 2010 cost is THB 880 - we need to see the original of the letter, not a copy

For you legal types, in this "paperless" era, how does one get an "original?" I can get my pension statements on-line, but I've told them not to send hardcopies anymore. So, in this situation, any ideas on what "original" means in today's world? (Do I have to go back to hardcopy delivery?)

[Jingthing]

Hey let's not jump the gun. If I recall, the more recent reports of evidence being accepted were of the easier to get kind, such as statements off the net.

[JimGant]

We have now seen a number of recent reports on here where this evidence has been required.

Of course we've seen evidence of Immigration asking for income supporting documentation. Anybody reading this thread is aware of that....

What I have not seen is Immigration asking for a "Certified True Copy."

How much more evidence do you require?

Well, at least one report that one Immigration office asked for a Certified True Copy. Otherwise I might suspect that the Oz Embassy did, indeed, do a Certified True Copy -- but only because some bloke was 'anticipating' before marching off to the Immigration office....

Otherwise, I'd sure like to know which Immigration office is going to send me packing without a Certified True Copy.....

[tropo]

We have now seen a number of recent reports on here where this evidence has been required.

Of course we've seen evidence of Immigration asking for income supporting documentation. Anybody reading this thread is aware of that....

What I have not seen is Immigration asking for a "Certified True Copy."

How much more evidence do you require?

Well, at least one report that one Immigration office asked for a Certified True Copy. Otherwise I might suspect that the Oz Embassy did, indeed, do a Certified True Copy -- but only because some bloke was 'anticipating' before marching off to the Immigration office....

Otherwise, I'd sure like to know which Immigration office is going to send me packing without a Certified True Copy.....

The only point of including this message from the Australian Consulate was to illustrate that having to show proof of income at immigration offices is nothing new. As very few people make reports here there is no telling what extremes some Immigration Officers have gone to in the past to make peoples' lives difficult. We already know that Immigraiton Officers can drop bombshells at random so we never know exactly what to expect.

I think the biggest lesson here is to always be prepared for the unexpected.

Having some proof of income handy when applying for an extension is a good idea.