Tourism And Thailand The BBC's Shocking Truth

[h5kaf]

I watched it last night, another hour of my life wasted. It was hardly Ross Kemps idea of darkside then again she was nearly out the door when a rat turned up so I guess it was a positively dreadful experience, it's not like there's not billions of rats in the uk don't know why she was squealing so much.

BBC please stop wasting taxpayers money on this tripe journalism.

I agree that this was one of the worst 'tripe' programs I have watched. The girl was barely literate, with constant Oohs and Aarhs over every little thing. She spent one night in a Patong hotel and declared Thailand hotels to be better value than the UK ones she usually stayed in - Eh! back packers usually go for cheap. The program was so biased that it was obvious that there was an agenda from the outset. She did not understand any of the fundamental Thai values, or ways of life which we residents have learned to accept and get on with.

I wonder if she even has heard of Chalong, Phuket Town, Chern Talay, Surin etc etc etc, but good old Patong gets the vote and the slanging. At 22 and "missing her mum" she is very poorly qualified to comment on cultural matters in other countries than the UK. Much less interfere in their internal issues. If she went on the telly reporting on UK under privilege she would be a figure of fun.

If I give the impression that I am less than pleased then this is correct. I hate trashy, biased reporting on any topic more so when it is done by a less than professional person condone by a UK media organisation.

[NanLaew]

I hope she brings some minders on her return , she may need protection , we know what some Thais are like if they are put down in any way .

Just wondered how many generations have the Moken ocupied the land? have they genuine rights to it ?? if so why all of a sudden a big wig comes along and buy's it. Bought it from who ? will be interesting to see what transpires.

Truly.

Phuket, where the local mafia has bigger balls and protection than Pattaya's and there's more paper land titles than there are actual plots of land.

Edited March 30, 2011 by NanLaew

[fma]

This program was a joke so much so that I wrote to points view lets hope they air my message .

Dear Points of view

I have just made it through one the most terribly misinformed and bias Tv showsi think i have ever seen, Thailandand tourism the truth BBC 3 was a sham of a program an unabashed forcing ofwestern views on another culture.

Your presenter was wearing such heavily rose tinted glasses I am sure she didnot notice a thing going on around her.

She had no conception of Thai culture and should have maybe focused on theforeigners them selves, the majority that visit the country show little respectfor them selves and even less for the native culture.

This is the attitude that local Thais learn from the so called civilizedwestern countries and is causing more harm to the society than development.

Thailand is a growing country and badly needs that growth; the down side to growthis that some one will inevitably lose out.

Her constant comparison to European destinations showed her lack of insight didthose places not have native populations that have been forced out oftheir homes due to development?

Did the new development not bring wealth with it to those people?

Thailand is still relatively new to all of this give the country a chance to catchup.

Please BBC if your are going to produce such programs on such a subject havesome one who has a little more knowledge of the country.

Yours looking forward to less pandering programming

Conception of culture?

Please tell me where and what kind of culture that can be found in Patong, not to mention Pattaya. This is where the tourists end up.

They come for sun, beach, the food and the drink, and hope for the smiles and Thai hospitality.

Food should be culture in Thailand, but it is hard to find the real stuff. Most of the restaurants (that look inviting to first-timers) serve western fast food or bastardized thai food.

The thugs running the streets in tourist destinations have no concept of culture and hospitality.

So unless you are working hard, as a tourist you go back with an overdose on sun and drink and not much else.

Thailand has 40 years of experience as an exotic tourist destination.

How has the development been in these 40 years for a tourist looking for an exotic vacation?

How has the development been for the workers in the tourist industry?

How has the development been for the beaches and environment?

Crime?

Traffic?

I have worked in Thailand for 5 years, and have visited frequently for 20 years, and know that there are many exceptions to the pessimistic impressions listed above, but I think the general trend is negative.

The last time (literally!) I was on Patong Beach I asked the jet ski operators to be more careful when approaching the beach, there were a lot of small children playing in the waves. I was told to move away, this was HIS beach and he did not care. I counted more than 120 jet skis on Patong that day, there were no areas off limits to these cowboys.

These days we go to 4-5 star resorts to avoid the thugs. That is not 'real' Thailand either, but at least it is safe and hospitable.

[random]

Can we change the title of this thread to 'Thai apologists fail to admit any faults in thailand'

[upupandaway]

Entertaining article and I feel for the people being forced off the land they have come to call their own but is it any surprise to any one that life is tougher outside Western First World nations. Poor working conditions, long hours and low pay ... is that the reason why so many people want to go to places like the US and UK as well as providing people from the US and UK a cheap tourist destination while being able to stay at first rate hotels at rock bottom prices.

Have to agree with much of what you say.

I did however have some other thoughts on this part of your statement.

Poor working conditions, long hours and low pay.

I think the key here for working conditions is people are comparing them to there first world way of thinking. It has been my experience that they will spend a lot of time talking and it is excepted by the employers.

Low wages yes but they do seem to be able to live on them. They also have a fairly low unemployed rate do to the fact that the employers can afford to hire more employees witch they need because of the time spent chatting. Walk into a seven eleven many of them are less than half the size of the ones in North America and have at least three employees. In North America they will often have just one employee never more than two.

Then we come to long hours. True but bear in mind that they are not going full tilt or what ever other speed that would be expected of them in a first world nation.

Perhaps if she were to do a documentary and instead of using England as a standard use Lao, Cambodia, Burma or many of the African nations as a standard she might have a different view.

Edited March 30, 2011 by upupandaway

[andrewdrummond]

Is this a joke? I mean...really?

The article seemed very sarcastic as well. It must be a joke.

Of course its a bit of joke Timebandit2. Don't confuse irony with sarcasm though.

Here's why: (1) Its on BBC3. (2) People are watching Stacey Dooley and what she is going to do next (3) The Sea gypsies have nothing to do with a story about conditions in the hotel industry (4) The producer/director merely points Dooley in the direction he chooses and lets her loose with shock and tears. It is in fact the Stacey Dooley show.

In Cambodia she adopted a prostitute to save her from the life - that girls is now back at work. The Blood Sweat and Take-way episode shot in Isaan is being questioned over several 'production values' and how much was set up....and as for the poster who asked what about the long necked Karen in Northern Thailand, that has been exposed many times (I did it for The Times and Channel 4 yonks ago) but now there are more 'human zoos' than ever.

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/my-work/investigations/prisoners-in-human-zoo/

[ginjag]

Entertaining article and I feel for the people being forced off the land they have come to call their own but is it any surprise to any one that life is tougher outside Western First World nations. Poor working conditions, long hours and low pay ... is that the reason why so many people want to go to places like the US and UK as well as providing people from the US and UK a cheap tourist destination while being able to stay at first rate hotels at rock bottom prices.

There is nothing "rock bottom" about Thailand prices these days. Maybe sometime in the past, but things have changed. Mind you, it is still reasonable, but a statement like rock bottom is simply ridiculous. Please do your research. Yes, labor costs here are low. But prices have gone up on everything, and while it is still reasonable here, by western standards, the days of rock bottom are gone.

Not that I meant the term to be taken so literally as you have but what tropical island resort hotels offers the same accommodations for less? I'm sure there has got to be somewhere but also pretty sure Thailand is one of the lowest (rock bottom) cheapest.

If tourists paid more than "rock bottom" would you pay your low class workers more per month ?? no -sure

[ginjag]

I hope she brings some minders on her return , she may need protection , we know what some Thais are like if they are put down in any way .

Just wondered how many generations have the Moken ocupied the land? have they genuine rights to it ?? if so why all of a sudden a big wig comes along and buy's it. Bought it from who ? will be interesting to see what transpires.

Truly.

Phuket, where the local mafia has bigger balls and protection than Pattaya's and there's more paper land titles than there are actual plots of land.

I believe you. by the way don't call me TRULY

[Bagwan]

I watched this and was very disappointed. Very condescending person. I would hate to be a British Tax Payer who paid for this muppet to travel to places to give such a view.

She much have some strong BBC contacts or has done something to someone to get this job.

Maybe she is not so out of touch with all things Thai. Perhaps she screwed a BBC Governor or two?

I'm all for encouraging the young but this subject needed someone with a little extra gravitas. Maybe the experienced people considered that they might be standing into danger.

[dumpling]

This program was a joke so much so that I wrote to points view lets hope they air my message .

Dear Points of view

I have just made it through one the most terribly misinformed and bias Tv showsi think i have ever seen, Thailandand tourism the truth BBC 3 was a sham of a program an unabashed forcing ofwestern views on another culture.

Your presenter was wearing such heavily rose tinted glasses I am sure she didnot notice a thing going on around her.

She had no conception of Thai culture and should have maybe focused on theforeigners them selves, the majority that visit the country show little respectfor them selves and even less for the native culture.

This is the attitude that local Thais learn from the so called civilizedwestern countries and is causing more harm to the society than development.

Thailand is a growing country and badly needs that growth; the down side to growthis that some one will inevitably lose out.

Her constant comparison to European destinations showed her lack of insight didthose places not have native populations that have been forced out oftheir homes due to development?

Did the new development not bring wealth with it to those people?

Thailand is still relatively new to all of this give the country a chance to catchup.

Please BBC if your are going to produce such programs on such a subject havesome one who has a little more knowledge of the country.

Yours looking forward to less pandering programming

Conception of culture?

Please tell me where and what kind of culture that can be found in Patong, not to mention Pattaya. This is where the tourists end up.

They come for sun, beach, the food and the drink, and hope for the smiles and Thai hospitality.

Food should be culture in Thailand, but it is hard to find the real stuff. Most of the restaurants (that look inviting to first-timers) serve western fast food or bastardized thai food.

The thugs running the streets in tourist destinations have no concept of culture and hospitality.

So unless you are working hard, as a tourist you go back with an overdose on sun and drink and not much else.

Thailand has 40 years of experience as an exotic tourist destination.

How has the development been in these 40 years for a tourist looking for an exotic vacation?

How has the development been for the workers in the tourist industry?

How has the development been for the beaches and environment?

Crime?

Traffic?

I have worked in Thailand for 5 years, and have visited frequently for 20 years, and know that there are many exceptions to the pessimistic impressions listed above, but I think the general trend is negative.

The last time (literally!) I was on Patong Beach I asked the jet ski operators to be more careful when approaching the beach, there were a lot of small children playing in the waves. I was told to move away, this was HIS beach and he did not care. I counted more than 120 jet skis on Patong that day, there were no areas off limits to these cowboys.

These days we go to 4-5 star resorts to avoid the thugs. That is not 'real' Thailand either, but at least it is safe and hospitable.

How about going to the PM in the standard Kosan road costume of fisherman's pants and a sleeveless top.In any culture I think seeing someone in officialdom requires you to dress a little better especially if you are trying to raise something of serious concern.

[RHCP]

Couldn’t be bothered to watch the programme after seeing the name Stacey Dooley as the presenter. In her previous programme presentations on Thailand she displayed so much naivety and she really needs to extract herself from her more privileged lifestyle in Britain and live in this country for a while to have a better understanding of the realities of life in Thailand.

[grahamhc]

how many rats a day do you see in the UK ?

London Olympics work boosts rat population

22/04/2010

Businesses and homes in the vicinity of the 2012 Olympic Games sites may want to think about adopting electronic deterrents in the light of news that the building work involved with the Olympic stadiums has led to a huge rise in the number of rats in the capital.

The new research has come from the National Pest Technicians Association and suggests that there has been a 38 per cent increase in London’s rat population. This is attributed to an increase in building work – particularly on the Olympic sites in East London - decaying sewers and more litter.

Rats reach sexual maturity in just eight weeks and one pair can produce as many as 2,000 baby rats each year.

John Davidson, the chief executive of the Association, explained, “It is a real worry that with 2012 approaching, the rat problem is so bad in London.” He continued to add that traditional means of catching rats are no longer effective: "The problem is that many people rely on bait traps. However, if there is a ready supply of fast food on the floor people have dropped, rats have no need to go looking for food."

I was sitting in a bar the other eaveing when a large mouse just up on the ther drinks counter at the back of the bar - wandered along, then disappeared. My English friend pointed it out and "Oh. Look" I reply "Og" and we went back to our conversation with batting an eyebrow.

I have a question: What was this to do with Tourism Truth, apart from another hotel? Maybe they needed a Shock Jock title for another boring show.

[fxe1200]

I hope she brings some minders on her return , she may need protection , we know what some Thais are like if they are put down in any way .

Just wondered how many generations have the Moken ocupied the land? have they genuine rights to it ?? if so why all of a sudden a big wig comes along and buy's it. Bought it from who ? will be interesting to see what transpires.

The legend says that the Moken "occupied" the land or their islands in Thailand more than 400 years ago. They most probably started their settling out of Southern China about 2.500 years ago. Therefore they (IMHO) have the genuine right to live where they are at, or where they move, as the Moken change their habitat with the seasons and/or the availability of fish.

The government of Thailand though, produced title deeds for all land, which had not been registred yet, and sold it, without consideration of the natural rights of the Moken.

[drdoom6996]

Right or wrong, money talks and everybody else walks. They are just part of the wrong organization, or should I say MAFIA. You will never get past the Good ol' Boy network in Asia.

[Igor]

Tried to watch this show but the woman (Stacy?) was sooo annoying I couldn't make it through the first half.

[Humphrey Bear]

Does anyone know about the legal status of sea gypsies? Do they hold the land titles?

I mean the main problem of course is that Phuket, Samui, and other islands are run by the Mafia. That's the root cause of all these issues, and that's what would need to be solved. As long as gangsters are in charge, you can't expect it to get better. If the government can't even defeat the tuk tuk and taxi mafia there - what hope is there?

This is a good point. It does not even appear that the government is making a tiny effort to defeat the taxi mafia, or the other mafias such as the jet ski mafia, the property mafia, the bar mafia (every bar in samui now charges 150 baht for a lady drink!). If they would make the least bit of effort, it would be encouraging to all of us. Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam, India, and China are making huge efforts to fight corruption, and are trying and convicting high ranking officials, and corporate CEO's on a nearly daily basis, and Thailand is sleeping on the job. They will get left behind, if nothing is done. 20 years from now Thailand could really work it's way down the rung of Asian nations.

Twenty years from now?

Where are you? It's already happening - Vietnam and Indonesia are catching Thailand in manufacturing progress, have better transport, are climbing fast.

But both are still cheaper to live in than Thailand.

OK, you don't have the girlie bars (or BoyzTown), or not in-your-face as in parts of Thailand.

But apart from that the quality of life is good for the majority of the inhabitants, excellent for expats. Come and see for yourselves.

[Oberkommando]

Can we change the title of this thread to 'Thai apologists fail to admit any faults in thailand'

[whistleblower]

Haven't seen the programme, but love it when something like this crops up to see all the 'Thai Huggers' come out and condemn it.

[whistleblower]

"She had no conception of Thai culture and should have maybe focused on theforeigners them selves, the majority that visit the country show little respectfor them selves and even less for the native culture.

This is the attitude that local Thais learn from the so called civilizedwestern countries and is causing more harm to the society than development."

What exactly is Thai culture????

Bribery?

corruption?

money = power = untouchable?

slicing a girl in half then driving 10 km with half a body in your car?

being a 15 year old and driving uninsured with no licence and killing people without conviction?

Mafia run tourist areas?

"This is the attitude that local Thais learn from the so called civilizedwestern countries and is causing more harm to the society than development."

I don't think so.

Cant ever remember the 'mafia' controlling the donkey rides in any UK seaside town.

Go to any Thai town (not heavily populated by westerners) and see the crap they just throw on the streets.

"If its not mine - I dont care about it" is a very deeply rooted thought for all the Thais i have met.

The difference between a 'civilised country' and a developing country such as Thailand is that for the most part a civilised country has laws and people to enforce those laws and a checks and balance system.

Thailand has laws but if they are never enforced then nothing will change.

[Oberkommando]

Go to any Thai town (not heavily populated by westerners) and see the crap they just throw on the streets.

When I took the train down South I saw Thais just throwing litter out of the windows even when the train was stationary.

[operator]

It's now on iplayer for anyone who missed it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0100vtt/Thailand_Tourism_and_the_Truth_Stacey_Dooley_Investigates/

When i started watching this program i asssumed it was a repeat and had been filmed a few years ago. With comments like it's never been cheaper to have a holiday in Thailand. Err i don't think so. Made out that hotels guests never ever leave tips for the maids and they only have their wage to live on. If the maids do a good job which so far they always have, i tip them. Ok it's only 20 or 50 baht every other day.

Edited March 30, 2011 by operator

[jackinbkk]

"She warns an advisor to Abhisit Vejjajiva: “I will be back to do a follow-up”. She has already done Thailand’s sweatshops and child prostitution in Cambodia."

Well then good luck getting the rights to film legally again.

I'm going to have to take a look at this so called documentry to see just how bad it is.

England is no better than Thailand in many ways. They gave Bob Geldolfs daughter a tv show for f**ks sake!

Not the BBC that time, but it's all about who you know here too rather than ability

[jackinbkk]

well looking at the intro, it seems only the sea gypsies being displaced are in any way related to Tourism.

Mechanics in Thailand servicing all the scooters also live in shacks and often work 6 days a week.

Right from the off there is a clear lack of research saying it's never been cheaper to go to thailand for a holiday.

Garbage.

[tracer5050]

Sad to say the least.

[coolhandjoe]

I watched this and was very disappointed. Very condescending person. I would hate to be a British Tax Payer who paid for this muppet to travel to places to give such a view.

She much have some strong BBC contacts or has done something to someone to get this job.

I believe you've hit the nail on the head with these comments.

[coolhandjoe]

£30 a night for that five star hotel....utter Lies!

That hotel on certain sites is coming in at 3 times that price.

[bumpkin]

she was nearly out the door when a rat turned up so I guess it was a positively dreadful experience, it's not like there's not billions of rats in the uk don't know why she was squealing so much.

how many rats a day do you see in the UK ?

Depends how close you live to Westminster !

[panther14]

Having just seen the programme and read most messages here, the general consensus of the programme and its presenter are poor. I have to agree.

I'm not sure what she was getting at by saying 7 or 8 brits die every year at the full moon parties, i live in mallorca and as many as that die here every year

falling drunk from hotel balconies. Alcohol and drugs can have that effect, its nothing new and happens the world over.

[samjaidee]

"She had no conception of Thai culture and should have maybe focused on theforeigners them selves, the majority that visit the country show little respectfor them selves and even less for the native culture.

This is the attitude that local Thais learn from the so called civilizedwestern countries and is causing more harm to the society than development."

What exactly is Thai culture????

Bribery?

corruption?

money = power = untouchable?

slicing a girl in half then driving 10 km with half a body in your car?

being a 15 year old and driving uninsured with no licence and killing people without conviction?

Mafia run tourist areas?

"This is the attitude that local Thais learn from the so called civilizedwestern countries and is causing more harm to the society than development."

I don't think so.

Cant ever remember the 'mafia' controlling the donkey rides in any UK seaside town.

Go to any Thai town (not heavily populated by westerners) and see the crap they just throw on the streets.

"If its not mine - I dont care about it" is a very deeply rooted thought for all the Thais i have met.

The difference between a 'civilised country' and a developing country such as Thailand is that for the most part a civilised country has laws and people to enforce those laws and a checks and balance system.

Thailand has laws but if they are never enforced then nothing will change.

What exactly is Thai culture????

One aspect of Thai culture, and Asian culture in general, that came up in the show was leaving your children with your parents and going away to work. She made such a big deal about this yet it is completely normal all over Asia.

I watched about 15 minutes of the show and was so frustrated by her ignorance I had to turn it off.

[h5kaf]

Can we change the title of this thread to 'Thai apologists fail to admit any faults in thailand'

You miss the point of the posts completely.

As you probably know this forum is renowned for its intolerant membership on all matters Thai that do not conform to the USA, UK or Aussie standards. It is loaded with whingers. BUT these people mostly live here and have made the necessary adjustments to the Thai way of life. This includes living with corruption, double and treble standards, filth, poor service if any at all etc.etc.etc. It is the Thai style to ignore the laws (especially traffic laws) and to send their children back to the village to be cared for by the grandparents. Few of the ladies in the Patong "entertainment" scene could earn similar amounts in a shop or a bank, and in my experience would not want to do any other work anyway.

SO to see a 22 year old, all teeth and smiles, OOhing and AAhing to carefully selected Thais and presenting this as the 'norm' to the UK audience is unbearable for many posters on this forum. At least the whingers live here and have the knowledge to complain. They should send her to Afganistan to see what she makes of it over there.