The Monks And I: Teaching And Learning In Thailand

[Jawnie]

Only when it suits you.

Hahaha, Brucenkhamen, you are hilarious. The mandala practice is a skillful means for generating merit, just like life release, offerings, alms, book giveaways, and other merit making. It's not so complicated and is pretty widely taught in Mahayana circles. Someone who has reached nirvana would know all about it. The way I am proposing it, it's just to test what they know. It's not the end-all or be-all, a definition of enlightenment, and it's really mostly for well-informed beginners. Example, if someone showed up on a college campus somewhere and said they were as smart as Albert Einstein, well of course, the first thing you'd do is give them a basic problem to solve, one that anyone could solve if they are a mathematician. Not trying to give an exclusive or definite definition of anything. Can you live with that?

[Brucenkhamen]

Hahaha, Brucenkhamen, you are hilarious. The mandala practice is a skillful means for generating merit, just like life release, offerings, alms, book giveaways, and other merit making. It's not so complicated and is pretty widely taught in Mahayana circles. Someone who has reached nirvana would know all about it. The way I am proposing it, it's just to test what they know. It's not the end-all or be-all, a definition of enlightenment, and it's really mostly for well-informed beginners. Example, if someone showed up on a college campus somewhere and said they were as smart as Albert Einstein, well of course, the first thing you'd do is give them a basic problem to solve, one that anyone could solve if they are a mathematician. Not trying to give an exclusive or definite definition of anything. Can you live with that?

Looking at this article I'm surprised to see that mandalas do exist outside of Tibetan Buddhism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandala Though I can't see any evidence that other schools use them as some kind of practise or skillful means.

So your statement effectively says that if somebody doesn't know about or hasn't practised mandala practise then they can't possibly be enlightened. If somebody can explain mandala practise but is full of greed, aversion, and delusion they might be enlightened wheras if somebody has no evidence of greed, aversion, and delusion but doesn't know the first thing about mandala practise they can't possibly be enlightened.

I find this all very naive.

Yes if somebody claimed to be as intelligent as Einstein the easiest way to prove it would be to give them a problem to solve, but enlightenment is not about intelligence, nor is it about the ability to draw or contemplate pretty pictures.

Ok then, lets have some evidence, lets have some evidence that all enlightened people know all about mandala practise.

If someone says an enlightened being would know all about mandala practise, another he would know all about mahasi technique, and another all about koan practise, how do you prove who's correct? It's just a product of a narrow view based on limited experience.

I'll stick with the scriptural definitions thank you.

[sabaijai]

Obviously for most Theravadins, knowledge of sand mandalas doesn't relate to nirvana in any way, shape or form. I don't think one could even claim that all Mahayanists would take that particular practice as fundamental.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it mainly a Tibetan/Vajrayana tradition? Likewise the debating tradition Jawnie writes about is for the most part unique to Vajrayana monasticism.

In that case, what we have here are two different ways of looking at Buddhist epistemology, one Theravada and one Vajrayana.

Since the original topic is about volunteer teaching at specific monasteries in Thailand, how about we stick to that from this point forward?

If anyone would like to start a new thread about sand mandalas or other practices or about the definition of nirvana, please do.

Let's move towards the cooling if not the blowing out, of the flames

And remember the words of poet Kenneth Patchen:

Greater vehicle,

Lesser vehicle

All vehicles will be towed at owner's expense

[Xangsamhua]

• Posted 2011-04-01 17:30:42 by Camerata

The monks and I: Teaching and learning in Thailand

International volunteers pay to teach Buddhist monks in Chiang Mai and Ratchaburi. Journey to nirvana not guaranteed

Foreigners are being invited to teach English to Buddhist monks at two temples in Thailand -- at a cost of hundreds of dollars.

And staff at one temple claim that many visiting instructors "experienced nirvana temporarily" during meditation sessions.

Have just got back from three weeks in Brisbane and now catching up with the various April Fool's postings on different forums (note the date above). Good one, Camerata!

Edited April 11, 2011 by Xangsamhua

[Xangsamhua]

• Posted 2011-04-01 17:30:42 by Camerata

The monks and I: Teaching and learning in Thailand

International volunteers pay to teach Buddhist monks in Chiang Mai and Ratchaburi. Journey to nirvana not guaranteed

Foreigners are being invited to teach English to Buddhist monks at two temples in Thailand -- at a cost of hundreds of dollars.

And staff at one temple claim that many visiting instructors "experienced nirvana temporarily" during meditation sessions.

Have just got back from three weeks in Brisbane and now catching up with the various April Fool's postings on different forums (note the date above). Good one, Camerata!

OMG! Looking more closely at the OP's link and another on the web I can see that this scam is for real. No April Fool.

Dhammakaya are amazing. What will they think up next?

[Xangsamhua]

The Dhammakaya cult continues to proliferate.

I live in Thailand, was ordained for a very short time last year, and was thinking about going to stay with them at Ratchaburi. A Thai friend of mine recommends it.

Can you please elaborate on 'cult'? If you are uncomfortable with quoting publicly, then I would be very grateful for a PM or a link to some other websites giving any kind of critique.

I had a 'bad' experience at a Goenka Vipassana course last year and I wish I had researched it more before I went.

Thank you.

Here's something on Dhammakaya.

http://www.thaivisa....19#entry3501019 (Post #1)

I don't know if it's a "cult". In many respects it's just a logical outgrowth of popular and officially approved Thai Buddhism.