Playground Equipment Supplier In Phuket

[simon43]

Is there a company in Phuket that sells 'safe' playground equipment, such as kid's swings, climbing ropes etc? (By safe, I mean reasonable quality and design so that the kids can play without risking death...)

I am just starting on a low-season renovation/upgrade to my small hotel, and one quick and easy upgrade is the provision of play facilities for younger guests.

How about a supplier of shredded bark or similar to spread on the ground? (to provide a softer fall..)

Thanks for any suggestions

Simon

[katasyd]

http://www.searasports.com/commercial-play-systems/active-play-stations/

They have a office on bypass rd.

Edited April 2, 2011 by katasyd

[xen]

I work in Playground design and Maintenance and most of the Thai Playgrounds and Thai playground equipment are just very poor copies of what was being used in Europe or the States a decade ago . Most of it would not pass the Euro Standards so be very careful if you think kids safety is important . Benjasiri Park in Sukhumvit Road in BKK has just upgraded their equipment from possibly the worse maintained and dangerous equipment i have ever seen in a public park and still it is very sub-standard to what would be acceptable in Europe, the States or Australia. The dilemma is that if u get good stuff you would have to import it and it would not be cheap. Goggle companies like Kompan, Playrope or Proludic for examples of good quality equipment and look at the details and you will see the Thai stuff doesn't come near (from what i have seen anyway). Both Singapore and Hong Kong have excellent high quality playgrounds if you want to see goodpublic playgrounds.

PM me if i can help you with avdvice.

[MissChris]

Simon

It's not just the safety of the equipment, it's also the 'soft fall' that's used. In Oz it used to be a certain depth of shredded rubber. Something like 8cm. Or special matting. Sand is like falling on rock and I don't think mulch is good - dunno why.

I'm sure you can google standards for kids' play equipment. You might be able to get some simple stuff made, too.

[petercallen]

I have seen trampolines advertised in the PG, they are the same as sold in Australia

with the safety net around and zip closed door

Different sizes available, safe but not cheap.

[simon43]

Thanks for all the good advice. I have a small area at my hotel which could benefit from perhaps a swing, climbing rope etc, nothing fancy. But I need to ensure that it's safe, and as MissChris pointed out, the ground surface is important. I seem to remember that coir (coconut husk) can be used to make a soft but durable ground cover?

Simon

[Logician]

The beauty of living in Thailand is you get to make your own decisions, like a big boy. Just like you did in the west decades ago. Nobody will be able to sue you unless you have been unnecessarily remiss.

All the playground equipment in Phuket parks (except the very old stuff which is only made of metal and is rusting away) are completely safe. Assuming a normal level of adult supervision.

Buy whatever equipment you deem to be safe. Put a sign up asking parents to be responsible for their own children, and job done.

Forget about the people trying to sell you international equipment, with bull <deleted> safety stamps and 1000 pages of health and safety, risk assesment <deleted>.

[notbritish]

The beauty of living in Thailand is you get to make your own decisions, like a big boy. Just like you did in the west decades ago. Nobody will be able to sue you unless you have been unnecessarily remiss.

All the playground equipment in Phuket parks (except the very old stuff which is only made of metal and is rusting away) are completely safe. Assuming a normal level of adult supervision.

Buy whatever equipment you deem to be safe. Put a sign up asking parents to be responsible for their own children, and job done.

Forget about the people trying to sell you international equipment, with bull <deleted> safety stamps and 1000 pages of health and safety, risk assesment <deleted>.

Yes very safe.

running and falling on concrete is the safest way to play, it is really hard to scratch your foot on it or to fracture your skull from a 30cm fall.

Heavy filled plastic car tires using as slings are the safest way for child to play, a 20km/hr blow to the head from these is only similar to a hit to the head from an elbow(of a metal robot).

Yes those extremely not straight and slippery ladders are completely safe for the children

Yes those cheap plastic are definitely not prone to getting hot in the sun and burning children.

Yes those loose metal attachments for the slings making them not go straight, but rather left to right are completely safe, children hitting each other at high speed almost 1.5 meters in the air is not dangerous at all, especially for the 3years and less.

ETC.

I suggest you contact the indoor playground in Bangkok(near rama4's carrefour), they have awesome equipments, they can hook you up with their supplier for sure.

Edited April 5, 2011 by notbritish

[Logician]

Yes very safe.

running and falling on concrete is the safest way to play, it is really hard to scratch your foot on it or to fracture your skull from a 30cm fall.

Heavy filled plastic car tires using as slings are the safest way for child to play, a 20km/hr blow to the head from these is only similar to a hit to the head from an elbow(of a metal robot).

Yes those extremely not straight and slippery ladders are completely safe for the children

Yes those cheap plastic are definitely not prone to getting hot in the sun and burning children.

Yes those loose metal attachments for the slings making them not go straight, but rather left to right are completely safe, children hitting each other at high speed almost 1.5 meters in the air is not dangerous at all, especially for the 3years and less.

ETC.

I suggest you contact the indoor playground in Bangkok(near rama4's carrefour), they have awesome equipments, they can hook you up with their supplier for sure.

What playgrounds are you reffering to?

The one at Nai Harn, the one at Sapan Hin, the one in town over by the Town hall, amongst others are perfectly safe. If you can't supervise your children on that equipment, without them hurting themselves, then that's your failing, not that of the equipment.

If you need EU politicians to help you keep your children from hurting themselves, then again, I would say that is your failing, no body elses.

How did the human race manage to survive all those years without health and safety? Common sense, that's how.

[notbritish]

Yes very safe.

running and falling on concrete is the safest way to play, it is really hard to scratch your foot on it or to fracture your skull from a 30cm fall.

Heavy filled plastic car tires using as slings are the safest way for child to play, a 20km/hr blow to the head from these is only similar to a hit to the head from an elbow(of a metal robot).

Yes those extremely not straight and slippery ladders are completely safe for the children

Yes those cheap plastic are definitely not prone to getting hot in the sun and burning children.

Yes those loose metal attachments for the slings making them not go straight, but rather left to right are completely safe, children hitting each other at high speed almost 1.5 meters in the air is not dangerous at all, especially for the 3years and less.

ETC.

I suggest you contact the indoor playground in Bangkok(near rama4's carrefour), they have awesome equipments, they can hook you up with their supplier for sure.

What playgrounds are you reffering to?

The one at Nai Harn, the one at Sapan Hin, the one in town over by the Town hall, amongst others are perfectly safe. If you can't supervise your children on that equipment, without them hurting themselves, then that's your failing, not that of the equipment.

If you need EU politicians to help you keep your children from hurting themselves, then again, I would say that is your failing, no body elses.

How did the human race manage to survive all those years without health and safety? Common sense, that's how.

I dont know how long you've been living here, but as you may not know, Thai parents do not watch their children EVER

If there's a pool and they have a crawling 1 year old, they will leave it by the pool and go hang upstairs by themselves

If there is a rabid dog they will gladly let their small child go play with it

If there is a wet surface being climbed by their child, they will turn around to keep eating and discussing what happened to their 5th neighbor last night.

If there's a tied monkey next to a bar, they will encourage their children to go play with it, making sure they will get bit.

So everything has to be extremely safe when you are allowing thai people onto your premises, they don't fend for themselves.

All those lines i posted, are things i have seen this very year. 2 of them happened in th e last 5 days and 1 of them resulted in a death and the parents are still negligent with their other children. Also they are FAR from poor or even middle class.

2 of them happened in a public park

I dont even want to count how many times i have seen 1 year olds barely walking, just walking around those hard plastic slings, getting hit in the face and falling head first on the concrete(parents never coming, or never explaining to the 3year olds that they should play far from those slings)

Im sure OP does not want to deal with angry parents and police. he's a western man, therefor every accident in his business is 100% his fault.

[Logician]

I dont know how long you've been living here, but as you may not know, Thai parents do not watch their children EVER

If there's a pool and they have a crawling 1 year old, they will leave it by the pool and go hang upstairs by themselves

If there is a rabid dog they will gladly let their small child go play with it

If there is a wet surface being climbed by their child, they will turn around to keep eating and discussing what happened to their 5th neighbor last night.

If there's a tied monkey next to a bar, they will encourage their children to go play with it, making sure they will get bit.

So everything has to be extremely safe when you are allowing thai people onto your premises, they don't fend for themselves.

All those lines i posted, are things i have seen this very year. 2 of them happened in th e last 5 days and 1 of them resulted in a death and the parents are still negligent with their other children. Also they are FAR from poor or even middle class.

2 of them happened in a public park

I dont even want to count how many times i have seen 1 year olds barely walking, just walking around those hard plastic slings, getting hit in the face and falling head first on the concrete(parents never coming, or never explaining to the 3year olds that they should play far from those slings)

Im sure OP does not want to deal with angry parents and police. he's a western man, therefor every accident in his business is 100% his fault.

Sorry, but that post is nonsence.

Obviously Thai parents will be slightly different to western ones, it's a completely different culture. The talk of rabid dogs and kids being allowed to play with monkeys is tripe. Even if you have genuinely seen something similar, it is not the norm.

By coincidence, I was in the area, so we stopped at the big playground at Saphan Hin today, the one near the Skills Development Centre. With this post in mind I looked at all the equipment. 100% safe, no question. Except a couple of bits which had been left in a state of disrepair, but that's a different issue.

As for Thai parents being less 'hands on', that's true. Although there were a handful of fathers walking around following their kids, as I was, so the majority isn't everybody, that's always a difference worth noting.

I counted between 40 and 50 kids playing at any one time, for the 90 minutes I was there. Guess what, not one of them hurt themselves. That's how things used to be before the Americans started sueing everybody, and countries like England became nanny states.

The funny thing is, the danger started when we left the playground and did a lap of the area. The open drains and random holes in the ground were far greater a risk than any slide or swing.

The OP runs a hotel, so I doubt he gets too many Thai families with young kids staying there. Either way, my origonal point was, that the equipment for sale here is perfectly adequate and safe, and there is absolutely no need to buy over priced foreign stuff, just because they have passed a million safety checks, just so nobody gets sued!

The OP is in the nice position of being able to make his own judgement call, as to what he believes is safe, without the nonsence of big brother looking over his shoulder. If he makes a sensible choice, puts signs up saying that it is the responsibility of the parents to take care of the children (why wouldn't it be) then he will have no problems with any one getting hurt or being sued if they do.

I have been here a long time, and my kids were born here by the way, so that old chestnut isn't really relevant.

By the way, where are these playgrounds with concrete under them??

[notbritish]

So let's just buy TS dvds(camera with good audio) from street vendors instead of blue rays. They work dont they? why pay for the better quality, your eyes only see 30fps and in a few years they will fade

let's just all buy proton, they run dont they? not more people die from them? why waste money on a strong car that will require less maintenance? that would be silly!

let's just buy the tesco golf clubs, they hit the balls dont they? its all a conspiracy anyways! the 900$ drivers are the same as the 30$ ones, its just branding MAN *puff puff*

let's just take the 300 baht cheaper go kart race track man, those extra safety the expensive place has it just <deleted>, nobody ever gets hurt from these small engines (read the gazette if you dont get that one) this accident is a CONSPIRACY MAN it's the other company trying to steal away customers!

seriously, can you keep your conspiracy to you and let the man who is definitely not poor, provide the best and have guarantees on what he buys? Wear and tear exists and safety standard are just extra precautions, accidents HAPPEN EVERYWHERE, if 500-1.5k$ more can safe the life of a child, it's a very cheap price to pay.

People life expectancy is getting longer and longer every year because of all those precautions we are taking, even though we are killing our immune system with meds and antibiotics.. so i guess those 'big brother tin foiled hat' safety standards are working? Just look at thai construction sites's ratio of accident compared to the west. CONSPIRACY i say! they just put fake numbers to WOW people.

ps: saphan hin playground is terrible, it's full of toxic paint coming off the old toys, the slings are breaking off when u sit in them, there's huge red ants at the bottom of many slides, the gaps are too high for most thai children under 5. It's even more dangerous than the other one in phuket town which is made of concrete.

and everything i have seen i have seen MANY TIMES. Just the pool thing that was a once in a lifetime thing close to me, but if you read thai newspaper you'll see that it happens on a regular basis. They certainly don't gate their pool for their other 5 children once the first one dies, just mai pen rai it.

Edited April 5, 2011 by notbritish

[Logician]

I think we need to wrap this up. Your arguement is going off on such a tangent, that it won't be long before we are discussing totally different things!

Most of your last post was talking about paying extra money for better quality. That is beyond obvious, and was never in question. Nor was the OP's ability to pay however much he wanted, for the quality he desired. No one ever sugested he couldn't.

To re-cap for you. The OP said: By safe, I mean reasonable quality and design so that the kids can play without risking death.

Someone then implied, that to do that, Simon would have to buy products from abroad at a ridiculous cost, because everything sold here, is so poor it shouldn't be used.

It's this arguement that I'm disputing, not your, 'A Tesco golf club is worse than an expensive one'!!

As for the rest of your post. I think we live in two different Phukets. The Playground next to the 'Skills Development Centre' has no toxic paint flaking off, and my 3 year old can use everything there. (except there is one set of steps missing, so he has to be lifted up, that is poor maintenance not build quality) so I don't know what big gaps you are talking about. (Don't forget some equipment is designed for kids of an older age, so of course under 5's won't be able to use it.)

As for the one 'made' of concrete, perhaps you are referring to the one in Suan Luang park, which isn't playground equipment, it's a big lump of concrete! so my kids don't play on it. The playground equipment there, again, apart from what has been aloud to decay (different issue) is perfectly safe for my 3 year old.

The other park I was referring to, which I get the feeling you've never been to, is over on the East side of town, near the govt. buildings for passports and such, I've never known the name. That playground also is 100% safe and has a soft floor, (no concrete in sight)

Anyway, we'll see if the OP gets back to us, when he's bought something. My money's on, it won't be form abroad!! and he'll be perfectly happy with it, and so will the kids who play on it.

[notbritish]

delusional.. the park next to the passport office is a giant park, its full of concrete, biting dogs and broken equipment with many hazard.

Everyone i know goes there and they all noticed the concrete flooring.. You must drink singha water, going against the whole world on this.

I seriously dont understand why you replied? if you think these hazardous playgrounds are fine for your child, fine, keep it for yourself. They are not fine for most of the expat community and it is our choice to want safety for our children.

By most of the expat community, im talking about those who refuse to let their child go to kajonkiet, which is a perfectly 'fine school' but very hazardous and 'un-nany state/big brotherish" as you cleverly put it.

[Logician]

I seriously dont understand why you replied? if you think these hazardous playgrounds are fine for your child, fine, keep it for yourself. They are not fine for most of the expat community and it is our choice to want safety for our children.

By most of the expat community, im talking about those who refuse to let their child go to kajonkiet, which is a perfectly 'fine school' but very hazardous and 'un-nany state/big brotherish" as you cleverly put it.

Firstly, you were right about the concrete floor, so I beg your pardon regarding that. However, although I am happy to admit when I'm wrong, I still stand by everything I have said. My mistake regarding the floor, as far as I'm concerned is the only thing I have said wrong.

I believe you are completely out of touch, when you believe that you and your pals are in the majority and I am in the minority. I am confident that most expats are happy for their children to use Phukets parks.

I find it very strange that you would want to live somewhere, that you had such a low opinion of, that you would boycot all the local parks. I find it very peculiar that you would be unable to supervise your children, and stop the from coming to harm while using this equipment. You mention stray dogs?? Stray dogs are everywhere in Phuket, which makes me wonder why they don't cause you problems everywhere else.

Are your kids not even allowed to use the play areas at Tesco and big C? Or are there too many poor Thai people there for your liking?

Could you please explain to me, because I am genuinly intrigued, as to how with your supervision, your children would come to harm on this equipment?

There is no way they can fall from any height on to the concrete, so the only time they are on there, is from the bottom of the slide back to the steps. Wow, scary stuff!

Again, how exactly would your kids get hurt playing on this equipment??

You notice the mini bus full of (international) school kids playing this particular day. So that's a bus full of parents and teachers that agree with me right there.

I also have no problem with my kids playing on some of the real Thai style stuff either. I check it first, and supervise as always.

I bet you're having a panic attack just looking at that one! I'm sorry, but I believe it is you who wraps your kids in cotton wool and keeps them in a sterile 'expat community' environment. I believe my children have a more normal, healthier life, for being allowed to play in the parks, in the place that is their home.

The reason I have added these pictures, is not only because it's half time in the footy, and I'm bored, and not because I think I will change your mind, I can see that won't happen, but because I would like to find out exactly what other expats think. You seem to think you know them so well, and that they all think like you. Well I would love to know what any other parents out there think. So I ask you.Could you, and do you, manage to supervise your children, while playing on this Thai equipment, without them getting hurt (or bitten by a dog)

If I'm wrong, and everyone agrees with you, I'll happily beg your pardon again.

After all this, I hope I'm right cos I've missed most of the second half now.

[MissChris]

Logician

I'm horrified by all of those photos.

The reason why the nanny countries put in soft fall is because of the accidents that were happening that were avoidable by simple means. Paediatricians were sick of fixing kids with smashed bodies from playground equipment.

Sure, when I was a kid in the 50's (gasp) we were unsupervised, but we tended to play in groups. We got grazed knees and the occasional broken bone. My own older kids used to toddle off to the park from a very young age - it was 2 doors away and there were always heaps of kids there, parents around (including me much of the time) and houses and flats overlooking it.

But kids these days seem to do the most astonishingly dangerous things. Look at the first photo. It looks cute. However, there are heaps of kids who would climb on the outside of those slides...

We want all kids to be the best they can. So why not put some soft fall on the concrete? And make sure we do the maintenance asap. Set a standard. Thai people with disabilities live a pretty dreadful life, imho.

[notbritish]

All that can be said is.

If i ask my parents and all their friends, how many of them broke bones before they started skiing/skating etc etc Almost all of them would raise their hands

Before people started snowboarding, i had 0 people at any of my school with a broken bone, 0(in fact i was the only one rushed into an ambulance, EVER outside of car crashes. And thats because i was retarded and playing with 5 foot long ice spikes dangling from a roof). i started seeing them around 13-14 of age when skateboards and snowboards starting coming into their lives.

and rabid dogs.. NO DANGER?

People get bit every <deleted> day, everyone here has had rabbies shot at least once, its everywhere. At this very park in the first photos i have seen somewhere around 10 biting in the past 16months, and i rarely go there. Id rather buy some fisher price sliders and ropes, put them outside my house and have children who wont throw crap on the ground(or parents) or hit other kids come play and enjoy those wonderfull fisherprice playground modules. Or just ask permission to enter Headstart and use their little park, it's very good with extremely good padding on the ground (artificial soft grass)

Misscriss: if you visit this very park at 4pm, you will see a minimum of 5 children climbing on the outside and jumping around 3-4meters in the air.

Edited April 6, 2011 by notbritish

[Logician]

Logician

I'm horrified by all of those photos.

The reason why the nanny countries put in soft fall is because of the accidents that were happening that were avoidable by simple means. Paediatricians were sick of fixing kids with smashed bodies from playground equipment.

Sure, when I was a kid in the 50's (gasp) we were unsupervised, but we tended to play in groups. We got grazed knees and the occasional broken bone. My own older kids used to toddle off to the park from a very young age - it was 2 doors away and there were always heaps of kids there, parents around (including me much of the time) and houses and flats overlooking it.

But kids these days seem to do the most astonishingly dangerous things. Look at the first photo. It looks cute. However, there are heaps of kids who would climb on the outside of those slides...

We want all kids to be the best they can. So why not put some soft fall on the concrete? And make sure we do the maintenance asap. Set a standard. Thai people with disabilities live a pretty dreadful life, imho.

That surprises me. A woman of your generation (born the same decade as my mother) I thought would be less likey to raise kids in such a 'modern' (what I would call namby pamby) way. The thing I find most interesting though, is the only way you explain a child could get hurt, is if he missused the euipment by climbing on the outside, which would involve a little shit of a child, and him being unsupervised, which wasn't the scenario I put to you. I asked people to step outside of their PC worlds, and not worry about other peoples kids getting hurt, but instead tell me weather you could keep your kids from getting hurt with you present. If the answer to that is no, then I agree, it's better you take your kids somewhere else.

I'm not stirring in any way here. I'm genuinely interested to know if I'm alone thinking this. Like I said, I will beg the person I'm discussing this withs pardon, if everybody agrees with him.

So please, if you have kids, let us know what you think about the parks in the photos. I hope people are able to answer honestly and not get shamed in to feeling they're doing something wrong. That's how political correctness madness works you know. Over time, it stops people from being able to do their own thinking.

[Logician]

All that can be said is.

If i ask my parents and all their friends, how many of them broke bones before they started skiing/skating etc etc Almost all of them would raise their hands

Before people started snowboarding, i had 0 people at any of my school with a broken bone, 0(in fact i was the only one rushed into an ambulance, EVER outside of car crashes. And thats because i was retarded and playing with 5 foot long ice spikes dangling from a roof). i started seeing them around 13-14 of age when skateboards and snowboards starting coming into their lives.

and rabid dogs.. NO DANGER?

People get bit every <deleted> day, everyone here has had rabbies shot at least once, its everywhere. At this very park in the first photos i have seen somewhere around 10 biting in the past 16months, and i rarely go there. Id rather buy some fisher price sliders and ropes, put them outside my house and have children who wont throw crap on the ground(or parents) or hit other kids come play and enjoy those wonderfull fisherprice playground modules. Or just ask permission to enter Headstart and use their little park, it's very good with extremely good padding on the ground (artificial soft grass)

Misscriss: if you visit this very park at 4pm, you will see a minimum of 5 children climbing on the outside and jumping around 3-4meters in the air.

No, dogs are no danger to my children, ever, because they always have someone between them and the dogs, ME! Unless Thai dogs start to behave like a pack of wolves or lions and circle us and attack us all (we all know that 90% of Thai dogs are all mouth and no trousers) then they will never be in any danger.

Do you never walk anywhere with your kids? If you do, what do you do when you see stray dogs? (apart from panic)

You seem to have disdain for everything about this place, which confuses me as to why you live here.

As for the 5 kids jumping on the outside of the playground. What exactly has that got to do with your, or my kids? Would you not be able to stop your kids from doing that if you were standing there?

You both seem to be confused with the difference, of you taking care of your children, and the well being of all children in Phuket. I'm specifically asking about the former.

[notbritish]

you clearly want to be labelled as retarded dont you?

OP is asking for playground equipement for a business

OP's business will be visited by many negligent parents

OP does not want a lawsuit

I don't give a crap about your kids, neither does the op, as far as everyone is concerned your kids can goto kajonkiet and play with a gallon of gasoline. What OP and everyone is talking about is PEOPLE USING HIS/THEIR BUSINESS. You clearly stated that with weak supervision, those playground are dangerous. Then you agree with everyone that this is not good to have as a business. So you completely agree with us and are just trying to prove you're the coolest parent because you arent worried about all those dogs that bite people left and right and those hard concrete floor because you hold your child hand non stop when hes jumping around, Good for you, this is completely off topic and you are now added to the ignore list since you kind of admitted your own trolling

[Logician]

you clearly want to be labelled as retarded dont you?

OP is asking for playground equipement for a business

OP's business will be visited by many negligent parents

OP does not want a lawsuit

I don't give a crap about your kids, neither does the op, as far as everyone is concerned your kids can goto kajonkiet and play with a gallon of gasoline. What OP and everyone is talking about is PEOPLE USING HIS/THEIR BUSINESS. You clearly stated that with weak supervision, those playground are dangerous. Then you agree with everyone that this is not good to have as a business. So you completely agree with us and are just trying to prove you're the coolest parent because you arent worried about all those dogs that bite people left and right and those hard concrete floor because you hold your child hand non stop when hes jumping around, Good for you, this is completely off topic and you are now added to the ignore list since you kind of admitted your own trolling

I hope you are better at keeping your cool when dealing with your children, than you are when on this forum. Getting a bit emotional aren't we?

I'm guessing this will be my last post, seeing as no one else has an opinion on the matter (very unusual for this forum, where most people have opinions on everything!) and as the powers that be will be hovering over the 'Topic Closed' button, as they do when only two people are contributing to a thread.

Re-read the thread, and you will see that I was perfectly on topic, discussing the OP's upcoming purchase of equipment, and I was making reference to another poster who said equipment made in Thailand isn't safe for the OP to buy. It was YOU and others who turned this in to a 'My little precious isn't allowed out in the real world' discussion. It was YOU who started talking about concrete floors under the equipment and people being bitten by dogs, all of which were completely off topic as the OP had already acknowledged the need to have a soft flooring under his equipment.

I don't need to hold my kids hands when they play. Even the youngest who's 3 is more than capable of using all the parks in Phuket without hurting himself. When he occasionally falls over, he jumps up and brushes himself down and gets on with it, but then I haven't raised him as a panzy!

Do you have tiles in your house? what about in the garden, have a tiled garage or patio area? What do your kids do if they fall over on that, break their neck? Or do you carry them from their beds to the car in the morning.

Why do you keep using the Royal 'We'. It's only you and a couple of your friends and some old dear on here. What about the International schools that use the playgrounds regularly, They obviously aren't part of your 'We'

When do I get an answer to my question, 'What exactly is that could happen on that equipment, that would lead to an injury, to your kids, under your supervision?' I noticed I never got an answer to that, just nonsence about other kids jumping off the sides.

I feel sorry for your kids. You have taken them from a country you obviously thought was safe, and brought them somewhere, where they have to live in a little sanitised, ex pat bubble, away from everyday normal life.

Never mind, you can just teach them, that whenever they disagree with someone, call them a 'retard' and add them to an ignore list. I'm sure they'll do just fine.

[xen]

Sorry but I am coming back into this post late with my two bobs worth to clarify some points about playground equipment design and safety.

I am not familiar with the parks in Phuket that Logican and Notbritish refer to but some playground design concepts may be helpful.

The Playground Standards are not intended to wrap kids in cotton wool but to make playgrounds safe so kids can develop skills in coordination and balance as well as other skills depending on their developmental age.

To keep kids safe on the older style or unmaintained equipment would, in fact, to be effective, would mean the kids to be wrapped in cotton wool to keep them safe. Parental or adult supervision is great but squashing kid’s experimentation and allowing them to stretch their abilities is what good design in playground equipment is all about. Put the kids in a safe environment and let them go without "cottonwool type supervision"

When we talk about playground safety it is primarily referring to avoiding head or brain injury in children and spinal injury. , and, of course death. Broken bones such as a broken arm, as distressing and painful as it may be at the time, 95% of the time will cause no long lasting consequences but a brain injury will affect a child and their family for many years. Playground standards that Logican is implying that are over the top seek to address the issue of long tern injury, such as quadaplegia or severe brain injury. A broken arm will heal in time and most kids will suffer broken bones as a part of growing up.

The photos of play equipment that Logican posted are deficient in a few areas and he poses the question " Could you please explain to me, because I am genuinely intrigued, as to how with your supervision, your children would come to harm on this equipment?"

1. <P dir=ltr align=left>
2. The fact that there is no softfall is the most apparent. Concrete may be low maintenance but a child’s head striking concrete from even a modest height of a few centimetres can and will cause brain movement within the skull. The result is usually not good especially at a young age when bone and brain is especially fragile.
   <P dir=ltr align=left>
3. No effective fall zone.
   <P dir=ltr align=left>
4. The slide mouth opens onto concrete. A child using the equipment can easily get a sore bum at best and spinal injury at worst from landing directly onto the concrete exiting from the slide mouth. No amount of adult supervision will prevent that from happening every time the slide is used.
   <P dir=ltr align=left>
5. The second photo is similar – slide mouths opening onto hard compacted earth.
   <P dir=ltr align=left>
6. A common problem with tubes being used as play-equipment can be with some children becoming paralysed with claustrophobia in the tubes. It may seem unlikely but it is quite common.To coax a kid out is difficult to do at times.
   <P dir=ltr align=left>
7. Also with tubes, inspection of the tubes is difficult to clear foreign objects such as broken glass, needles, razor blades etc being left in the tubes. They are also good hiding spots for certain experimental behaviour that children do indulge in – (Sex, smoking, drug use etc).
   

I could go on about this subject but I hope this helps.

[katasyd]

All the nanny state liberals are out in this thread.

Kids will be kids and shit happens.

[simon43]

Just to clarify my requirements, (as the OP):

I want to provide some small-level playground equipments at my hotel, not as a revenue-generating activity, but simply to provide a service to my family guests.

I need to provide equipments/activities which are within a reasonable budget, yet do not put me at risk of compensation claims from angry parents after their little one has cracked his/her head open on the concrete.

Simon

[Logician]

Sorry but I am coming back into this post late with my two bobs worth to clarify some points about playground equipment design and safety.

I am not familiar with the parks in Phuket that Logican and Notbritish refer to but some playground design concepts may be helpful.

The Playground Standards are not intended to wrap kids in cotton wool but to make playgrounds safe so kids can develop skills in coordination and balance as well as other skills depending on their developmental age.

To keep kids safe on the older style or unmaintained equipment would, in fact, to be effective, would mean the kids to be wrapped in cotton wool to keep them safe. Parental or adult supervision is great but squashing kid's experimentation and allowing them to stretch their abilities is what good design in playground equipment is all about. Put the kids in a safe environment and let them go without "cottonwool type supervision"

When we talk about playground safety it is primarily referring to avoiding head or brain injury in children and spinal injury. , and, of course death. Broken bones such as a broken arm, as distressing and painful as it may be at the time, 95% of the time will cause no long lasting consequences but a brain injury will affect a child and their family for many years. Playground standards that Logican is implying that are over the top seek to address the issue of long tern injury, such as quadaplegia or severe brain injury. A broken arm will heal in time and most kids will suffer broken bones as a part of growing up.

The photos of play equipment that Logican posted are deficient in a few areas and he poses the question " Could you please explain to me, because I am genuinely intrigued, as to how with your supervision, your children would come to harm on this equipment?"

1. <P dir=ltr align=left>
2. The fact that there is no softfall is the most apparent. Concrete may be low maintenance but a child's head striking concrete from even a modest height of a few centimetres can and will cause brain movement within the skull. The result is usually not good especially at a young age when bone and brain is especially fragile.
   <P dir=ltr align=left>
3. No effective fall zone.
   <P dir=ltr align=left>
4. The slide mouth opens onto concrete. A child using the equipment can easily get a sore bum at best and spinal injury at worst from landing directly onto the concrete exiting from the slide mouth. No amount of adult supervision will prevent that from happening every time the slide is used.
   <P dir=ltr align=left>
5. The second photo is similar – slide mouths opening onto hard compacted earth.
   <P dir=ltr align=left>
6. A common problem with tubes being used as play-equipment can be with some children becoming paralysed with claustrophobia in the tubes. It may seem unlikely but it is quite common.To coax a kid out is difficult to do at times.
   <P dir=ltr align=left>
7. Also with tubes, inspection of the tubes is difficult to clear foreign objects such as broken glass, needles, razor blades etc being left in the tubes. They are also good hiding spots for certain experimental behaviour that children do indulge in – (Sex, smoking, drug use etc).

I could go on about this subject but I hope this helps.

Thank you for your reply. Nice to see someone has the inteligence to actually answer the questions raised, without having a baby like tantrum as well, which always helps!

Firstly, just to go back to the original topic. I believe it was you that implied, that the OP should only buy expensive equipment from abroad, yet in the post above the only concern you raise, is the concrete floor? The OP has acknowledged his need for a soft floor, so I stand by my very original advice that equipment sold in Thailand would be more than adequate for the job. It was this point I made that snowballed in to discussing the Parks of Phuket.

As I said before, it would seem that everything you and everyone else is concentrting on is the floor. No one seems to have anything to say regarding the equipment, which was originaly put in to question.

You make six points above. Three of them all refer to the same thing (the concrete floor again) so I will adress that one point in a minute. Point 6 about objects being inside the tubes isn't a great one. Firstly you could tell straight away if people were in their doing naughty things, and act accordingly. As for glass etc, you can look to a point, but granted unless you crawl through, wouldn't know for sure. But, how is that any different to the tubes in your expensive playgrounds. How are you any more able to see inside those, which makes it not relevent to this equipment at all. (equipment in the UK is often in far worse a state of disrepair as well I may add, regardless of safety stickers)

Point 5, I'm afraid was terrible. Again, that could occur in any playground so is completely not relevent to this discussion. It is down to the parent to know weather this is likely to happen or not, and act acordingly.

So that leaves pretty much the only point you, and others have, the concrete floor. I'm glad to see unlike others you actually answer the question, and go off on a tangent about other, older, unruley, unsupervised kids.

I don't agree with your assesment of the risk involved. You have to understand, that there is no possible way my children could fall from any height. I check that could not possibly happen anywhere on the equipment first, and if there is an unguarded edge, say near a rope swing or monkey bars, designed for older kids, then it is easy to position your self there, to prevent this from being possible.

So that just leaves falling from standing and coming off the bottom of the slide.

I would automaticaly check how fast a slide is the first time it's used, by standing at the bottom ready to catch if they go shooting off the edge. After that, when you know they are slow, I dispute the likelyhood of them breaking their spine, when very occasionally they land on their bum. I also dispute the fact falling on to concrete, from a jog will ever result in brain damage. How many times when kids fall over do they hit the floor with their heads? Almost never, hands automatically come up to protect. And how is this different when they are playing in the street, or on your tiled driveway, or even indoors on a tiled floor? No different at all.

I'm not saying in an ideal world, they wouldn't be better, and I'm not saying I would feel the same about unsupervised children. Obviously kids would get to an age where they need to be left on their own, and then maybe I would stop them from using it, but until then, this is Phuket, you have to make the best of what you have, otherwise you shouldn't bother living here.

[Logician]

Just to clarify my requirements, (as the OP):

I want to provide some small-level playground equipments at my hotel, not as a revenue-generating activity, but simply to provide a service to my family guests.

I need to provide equipments/activities which are within a reasonable budget, yet do not put me at risk of compensation claims from angry parents after their little one has cracked his/her head open on the concrete.

Simon

I missed this post earlier, or I would have replied then. Appologies for taking your thread slightly off on a tangent, but these things happen.

As far as I can gather, you have lived, and run businesses here for a long time. So you know as well as most of us, how the Thai system works. You know that if you buy equipment made here, and it is installed and maintained properly (which I have no doubt it would be) then there is no way in a million years any body could sue you successfully. Even if the floor was concrete. The nonsence, sue culture, that our American friends started some time back, thankfully hasn't reached these shores, and I don't think it ever will.

Having said that, you obviously wouldn't leave the floor concrete, when you have the choice of doing otherwise for very little extra cost.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm fairly sure your budget doesn't stretch, to importing equipment from abroad, which is why I shared my opinion, that the equipment here would do just fine.

If it was me, I would also put a sign up in multi languages, explaining that you are not responsible for any accidents, and that kids must be supervised at all times. Not in a million years should ever be required to do any more than that.

P.S I know your place is in Mai Khao, but what's it called, and where abouts is it. Do you have a public bar and restaurant?

[katasyd]

Anyway, did you find a supplier for the equipment?

http://www.siamtara.com/product/playgroundn1.html

[notbritish]

Anyway, did you find a supplier for the equipment?

http://www.siamtara....aygroundn1.html

that has to be a joke?

Metal equipment with hard rock pads at the bottom to protect from a softfall on soft grass?

[xen]

Sorry but I am coming back into this post late with my two bobs worth to clarify some points about playground equipment design and safety.

I am not familiar with the parks in Phuket that Logican and Notbritish refer to but some playground design concepts may be helpful.

The Playground Standards are not intended to wrap kids in cotton wool but to make playgrounds safe so kids can develop skills in coordination and balance as well as other skills depending on their developmental age.

To keep kids safe on the older style or unmaintained equipment would, in fact, to be effective, would mean the kids to be wrapped in cotton wool to keep them safe. Parental or adult supervision is great but squashing kid's experimentation and allowing them to stretch their abilities is what good design in playground equipment is all about. Put the kids in a safe environment and let them go without "cottonwool type supervision"

When we talk about playground safety it is primarily referring to avoiding head or brain injury in children and spinal injury. , and, of course death. Broken bones such as a broken arm, as distressing and painful as it may be at the time, 95% of the time will cause no long lasting consequences but a brain injury will affect a child and their family for many years. Playground standards that Logican is implying that are over the top seek to address the issue of long tern injury, such as quadaplegia or severe brain injury. A broken arm will heal in time and most kids will suffer broken bones as a part of growing up.

The photos of play equipment that Logican posted are deficient in a few areas and he poses the question " Could you please explain to me, because I am genuinely intrigued, as to how with your supervision, your children would come to harm on this equipment?"

1. <P dir=ltr align=left>
2. The fact that there is no softfall is the most apparent. Concrete may be low maintenance but a child's head striking concrete from even a modest height of a few centimetres can and will cause brain movement within the skull. The result is usually not good especially at a young age when bone and brain is especially fragile.
   <P dir=ltr align=left>
3. No effective fall zone.
   <P dir=ltr align=left>
4. The slide mouth opens onto concrete. A child using the equipment can easily get a sore bum at best and spinal injury at worst from landing directly onto the concrete exiting from the slide mouth. No amount of adult supervision will prevent that from happening every time the slide is used.
   <P dir=ltr align=left>
5. The second photo is similar – slide mouths opening onto hard compacted earth.
   <P dir=ltr align=left>
6. A common problem with tubes being used as play-equipment can be with some children becoming paralysed with claustrophobia in the tubes. It may seem unlikely but it is quite common.To coax a kid out is difficult to do at times.
   <P dir=ltr align=left>
7. Also with tubes, inspection of the tubes is difficult to clear foreign objects such as broken glass, needles, razor blades etc being left in the tubes. They are also good hiding spots for certain experimental behaviour that children do indulge in – (Sex, smoking, drug use etc).

I could go on about this subject but I hope this helps.

Thank you for your reply. Nice to see someone has the inteligence to actually answer the questions raised, without having a baby like tantrum as well, which always helps!

Firstly, just to go back to the original topic. I believe it was you that implied, that the OP should only buy expensive equipment from abroad, yet in the post above the only concern you raise, is the concrete floor? The OP has acknowledged his need for a soft floor, so I stand by my very original advice that equipment sold in Thailand would be more than adequate for the job. It was this point I made that snowballed in to discussing the Parks of Phuket.

As I said before, it would seem that everything you and everyone else is concentrting on is the floor. No one seems to have anything to say regarding the equipment, which was originaly put in to question.

You make six points above. Three of them all refer to the same thing (the concrete floor again) so I will adress that one point in a minute. Point 6 about objects being inside the tubes isn't a great one. Firstly you could tell straight away if people were in their doing naughty things, and act accordingly. As for glass etc, you can look to a point, but granted unless you crawl through, wouldn't know for sure. But, how is that any different to the tubes in your expensive playgrounds. How are you any more able to see inside those, which makes it not relevent to this equipment at all. (equipment in the UK is often in far worse a state of disrepair as well I may add, regardless of safety stickers)

Point 5, I'm afraid was terrible. Again, that could occur in any playground so is completely not relevent to this discussion. It is down to the parent to know weather this is likely to happen or not, and act acordingly.

So that leaves pretty much the only point you, and others have, the concrete floor. I'm glad to see unlike others you actually answer the question, and go off on a tangent about other, older, unruley, unsupervised kids.

I don't agree with your assesment of the risk involved. You have to understand, that there is no possible way my children could fall from any height. I check that could not possibly happen anywhere on the equipment first, and if there is an unguarded edge, say near a rope swing or monkey bars, designed for older kids, then it is easy to position your self there, to prevent this from being possible.

So that just leaves falling from standing and coming off the bottom of the slide.

I would automaticaly check how fast a slide is the first time it's used, by standing at the bottom ready to catch if they go shooting off the edge. After that, when you know they are slow, I dispute the likelyhood of them breaking their spine, when very occasionally they land on their bum. I also dispute the fact falling on to concrete, from a jog will ever result in brain damage. How many times when kids fall over do they hit the floor with their heads? Almost never, hands automatically come up to protect. And how is this different when they are playing in the street, or on your tiled driveway, or even indoors on a tiled floor? No different at all.

I'm not saying in an ideal world, they wouldn't be better, and I'm not saying I would feel the same about unsupervised children. Obviously kids would get to an age where they need to be left on their own, and then maybe I would stop them from using it, but until then, this is Phuket, you have to make the best of what you have, otherwise you shouldn't bother living here.

Thank you for your reply. Nice to see someone has the inteligence to actually answer the questions raised, without having a baby like tantrum as well, which always helps!

Thank you. I am not here to argue with you but to discuss an issue that we both have strong views on. I admit it is somewhat removed from Simon43's original post. Maybe it may help him, maybe not. It depends on wether his main concern is to install a safeplayground or is it to avoid litigation , or both.

Firstly, just to go back to the original topic. I believe it was you that implied, that the OP should only buy expensive equipment from abroad, yet in the post above the only concern you raise, is the concrete floor? The OP has acknowledged his need for a soft floor, so I stand by my very original advice that equipment sold in Thailand would be more than adequate for the job. It was this point I made that snowballed in to discussing the Parks of Phuket.

Adequate is arbitrary measurement in this case ". On a scale from 1 to 10 , adequate may be 1 or it may be 10 depending on what criteria you wish to apply.

I still stand also stand by my statement that the Thai playgrounds are merely a copy of playground equipment that was designed some decades ago. With some retrofitting it could be made "adequate" Money and Knowledge would be required. . My advice , or what I intended to say ,was not to necessarily purchase this imported equipment unless the OP had big bucks to spend , but to research where playground equipment was evolving to by looking at what was happening in other countries and I mentioned specially both Singapore and Hong Kongas close by Asian neighbours sharing similar envirionmental conditions..- The latest trends are moving towards rope climbing equipment which is suitable for a wider range of age groups than the range available in Thailand I have seen.

As I said before, it would seem that everything you and everyone else is concentrating on is the floor. No one seems to have anything to say regarding the equipment, which was originally put in to question.

You make six points above. Three of them all refer to the same thing (the concrete floor again) so I will address that one point in a minute. Point 6 about objects being inside the tubes isn't a great one. Firstly you could tell straight away if people were in their doing naughty things, and act accordingly.

If you have security 24 hours a day this would be true.

As for glass etc, you can look to a point, but granted unless you crawl through, wouldn't know for sure. But, how is that any different to the tubes in your expensive playgrounds.

This is a point I am trying to make that tubes in play equipment are only satisfactory /safe for short tube lengths (maybe 1200 mm 0 and that all our playgrounds ,when they come up for renovation, the tubes play equipment is not being used.

How are you any more able to see inside those, which makes it not relevant to this equipment at all? (equipment in the UK is often in far worse a state of disrepair as well I may add, regardless of safety stickers). Maybe so .

What has safety stickers got to do with anything. I fail to understand this point. Sorry.

Point 5, I'm afraid was terrible. Again, that could occur in any playground so is completely not relevant to this discussion. It is down to the parent to know weather this is likely to happen or not, and act accordingly.

Have you ever wondered why MacDonald's who had a lot of tubed playequipment about 10 years ago have removed a lot of their tube play equipment now in many countries? It was this very reason why as being sued by a parent is usually a result of an incidence and these incidences can often happen even when there is parental Supervision is present and in a MacDonalds , one would safely assume the kids were being watched by someone . If you would like to do some research there are a few articles available on the net about it.

So that leaves pretty much the only point you, and others have the concrete floor. I'm glad to see unlike others you actually answer the question, and go off on a tangent about other, older, unruley, unsupervised kids.

I don't agree with your assesment of the risk involved. You have to understand, that there is no possible way my children could fall from any height. I check that could not possibly happen anywhere on the equipment first, and if there is an unguarded edge, say near a rope swing or monkey bars, designed for older kids, then it is easy to position your self there, to prevent this from being possible.

It is oblivious that you are a good and caring parent, and I would never encourage parents not to watch their kids in playgrounds as we all know there are dangerous people (read lowlife) lurking about, but in a well designed and that implies a great degree of safety, then supervision should be minimal and the kids should be free enough to do what kids do. Kids appreciate a certain amount of privacy in play situations where they can not only play, but explore their world and develop their physical and mental skills , develop social interaction with other kids etc.etc.. There has been massive research into how kids develop and what they need at certain ages and how well designed play equipment is a part of healthy child's development. Sorry but it all probably sounds a bit theoretical but understanding how children develop is important to understand when it applies to playgrounds. So many Parks are managed in a manner that a playground is just a token element and consquently poorly maintained without the benifit of pro-active mamagement.

So that just leaves falling from standing and coming off the bottom of the slide.

I would automaticaly check how fast a slide is the first time it's used, by standing at the bottom ready to catch if they go shooting off the edge. After that, when you know they are slow, I dispute the likelyhood of them breaking their spine, when very occasionally they land on their bum . We are talking worse case scenarios here but can you guarantee spinal injury will not result. Pulling a chair from underneath somebody has resulted in spinal injury and there are unfortunately kids in wheelchairs from landing on their tailbones from the slide mouth exit.

. I also dispute the fact falling on to concrete, from a jog will ever result in brain damage.

I think there is sufficient evidence that a severe impact to the head will cause damage. Remember a child's bones and brain has not developed and is much more fragile than an adults . Boxers can suffer brain injury from blows to the head and the movement of the brain within the skull , why not kids when their heads meet a hard object.

How many times when kids fall over do they hit the floor with their heads? Almost never, hands automatically come up to protect. And how is this different when they are playing in the street, or on your tiled driveway, or even indoors on a tiled floor? No different at all.

Sure, I agree the world can be dangerous but it should not stop us from trying to even the risks up a little bit in favour of the children.

I'm not saying in an ideal world, they wouldn't be better, and I'm not saying I would feel the same about unsupervised children. Obviously kids would get to an age where they need to be left on their own, and then maybe I would stop them from using it, but until then, this is Phuket, you have to make the best of what you have, otherwise you shouldn't bother living here.

Fair enough coment . I can't be bothered trying to invent a opposing view for the sake of it- in fact i would agree.

Hope i have given answers to your question /comments. This could well be a never-ending discussion as it evolves.

Cheers

Xen

Edited April 9, 2011 by xen

[Logician]

On a scale from 1 to 10 , adequate may be 1 or it may be 10 depending on what criteria you wish to apply.

Thanks for the reply, interesting reading. You're obviously a profesional and an expert in your field. (Probably the worst person, for me to have got in to this discussion with )

Everything you say makes perfect sense, it's just not relevent to this country and therefor not relevent to the OP. You are talking about the very cutting edge in playground design and safety, and even bringing child psychology in to the equation. You are talking about things as they would be in an ideal world, which most people in the world, and certainly Phuket, don't get to live in.

I had no idea that long tubes were being phased out (why would I) but that does go to prove a point. Until very recently, these were deemed to be adequate in western playgrounds, (and I would guess that lots still haven't been replaced yet) so you giving the OP advice, that his equipment should be safer and more cutting edge, than equipment that is still being used in the West, if you know Phuket, isn't appropriate advice.

Talking of knowing Phuket, I'm not sure if you've ever lived here or not, but as a parent, living somewhere like this, you need to behave in a completely different way than you would in the UK for example. I happen to like that aspect of living in a developing country, and it was a point I was trying to hit on earlier. I believe in the West, people automatically want other people to do their thinking for them. They want to just walk through life with their eyes closed, knowing that politicians health and safety executives, have already walked in front of them, clearing the way, making sure they can't come to any harm. And then, when as a result of living void of any common sense, and any desire to make their own decisions,they do get hurt, they want to sue somebody, as it couldn't have possibly been their fault. We all know the famous example of 'Caution Hot' having to be put on the side of coffee cups. People don't even want to take responsibility for finding out the temperature of their own drinks!

When you live somewhere like Phuket, you don't have that safety blanket that most people now require. You are left to make your own decisions, and to take responsibility for your own actions, and their outcomes. This is a refreshing way to live, and is how it was for my mothers generation and everyone before that.

In a playground in the UK, parents will happily leave their children unattended, because they know their environment has been made so sterile and safe, that they are unlikely to hurt themselves, they also know, that if they do, it will be someone elses fault not theirs! They are basicaly passing the buck of their childrens wellfare to that of the government and health and safety officials. What happened to good old fashioned, climbing trees? If you had that attitude in Phuket, it would be a matter of hours before your kids would have fallen to their death down a drain or been run over by a bus whos brakes have just failed.

The thing that most annoys me though, is that most of this, isn't done for the safety of the kids, it's done for the protection of the company, to avoid paying out compensation. The children benefiting, for the best part, is just a coincidence.

I'll give you a funny example (I found it mildly amusing anyway) While sitting upstairs at Tesco in the food area, at a table right next to the window, (if you don't know it, it's a floor to ceiling glass window that looks down to the shop floor, about 40 ft below. My son walked over to the window and gently lent against it. I instantly jumped to attention, and automatically scanned the window for cracks or missing putty. Now, in reality, the chances of him falling through that window was almost non existent, but it just shows how your brain changes. Can you ever imagine worrying about that, in a Tesco store in the UK? (Ok so it wasn't even mildly amusing, but it is a perfect example of how people are having the need to think, taken away from them in the West)

I think we've done this to death, and I've gone even more off topic now than before, (wouldn't hurt if you came back OP, and told us what you think is approprite for this country, and what you ultimately will decide to buy) and I wouldn't say you were wrong in any way. I just think you have miss judged this country, and the need for the OP to be purchasing cutting edge equipment, when in reality, a far inferior product, will still be more than adequate for his needs, for the safety of his guests and for him to avoid being sued.