Hachi Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Thought this was interesting - how long before (if ever) Thailand finally awakens & modernises / streamlines this current archaic visa system? New Indonesia visa rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7by7 Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Moved to Thai visas etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 I don't see any connection between Indonesia and Thailand, immigration-wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldgit Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 I don't see any connection between Indonesia and Thailand, immigration-wise. Exactly, but isn't that the point the OP is making. In Thailand a foreigner married to a Thai has to jump through hoops every year so he or she can remain in Thailand to be with their family, am I not following another thread about one very small part of this, the embassy letter, which applies for those of us seeking remain due to retirement as well as those married to a Thai. If a foreigner and his or her Thai spouse wish to live in say the US or the UK then once the original entry clearance matter is approved you are well on the way to be able stay in your country of choice. If they chose to stay in Thailand then the foreigner has to jump through these hoops every year and rely on the constant changing interpretation of the rules and requirements by individual immigration officials. It looks like the Indonesian Government is thinking ahead and for that reason I think that the OP has asked a very relevant question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lite Beer Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Inflammatory post removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maprao Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Very interesting. Is Indonesia very westerner friendly. I think I will plan a stop over there on my way to LOS. Relocating there is not an option for me.... Good for single guys wishing to settle in asia. Other than Bali What is a good beach resort there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESB7 Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 I don't see any connection between Indonesia and Thailand, immigration-wise. Exactly, but isn't that the point the OP is making. In Thailand a foreigner married to a Thai has to jump through hoops every year so he or she can remain in Thailand to be with their family, am I not following another thread about one very small part of this, the embassy letter, which applies for those of us seeking remain due to retirement as well as those married to a Thai. If a foreigner and his or her Thai spouse wish to live in say the US or the UK then once the original entry clearance matter is approved you are well on the way to be able stay in your country of choice. If they chose to stay in Thailand then the foreigner has to jump through these hoops every year and rely on the constant changing interpretation of the rules and requirements by individual immigration officials. It looks like the Indonesian Government is thinking ahead and for that reason I think that the OP has asked a very relevant question. Having 400K in a bank or an income of 40K a month is hardly jumping through hoops is it................try getting a visa for the UK, 6 months is OK but try for anything more permanant and apart from the documentation, the cost is lot more than the 1,900 baht you get charged here..............Thailands Visa system really is quite straight forward, look at the abuse being made of teh ED visa system at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldgit Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Having 400K in a bank or an income of 40K a month is hardly jumping through hoops is it OK maybe jumping through hoops was a bit strong, but you have to prove to the Thai immigration authorities that you have sufficient funds to support your spouse, and they require a figure which is a multiple of what an average Thai might earn, and of course the spouses income doesn't count. You then, I understand, have to provide details of your marital home and information similar to that. You then have to repeat the process every year, so no I stand by my view that it is jumping through hoops. It seems that with the Indonesian authorities it's going to be a one off process. Yes, you do have to jump through hoops to get settlement in the US and the UK and it's an invasive and costly business, but once you have you are good to go. I have no problem with the Thai authorities setting the bar high for those, like myself, extending their stay based on retirement and even proving annually that I still qualify for an extention, but I don't see why a married couple should have to jump through the same hoops on an annual basis - there, I've said it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikishrory Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 fully... they are 2 different countries. we could speculate all day long...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumumba Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Pisses me off having to take the obligatory photo infront of the house with your spouse. Glad I am past that, lots of useless hoops and not much social benefit. the average native sees you as an alien everyday for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumumba Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 fully... they are 2 different countries. we could speculate all day long...... ASEAN and other stuff not withstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chachachacha Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 What is happening about the proposed 1 visa for all countries ? I do find it as wrong that you can only live with your family if you have money . The Forigner in Thailand only breathes the air , no health care or benifits so why the money thing ? The measure of a man is not what money he has in the bank it is what love he can give to his family . I am not married & never will be but I do feel for the poor families that are kept apart by rules like this . A child don't care if his/her papa has money . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Having 400K in a bank or an income of 40K a month is hardly jumping through hoops is it OK maybe jumping through hoops was a bit strong, but you have to prove to the Thai immigration authorities that you have sufficient funds to support your spouse, and they require a figure which is a multiple of what an average Thai might earn, and of course the spouses income doesn't count. You then, I understand, have to provide details of your marital home and information similar to that. You then have to repeat the process every year, so no I stand by my view that it is jumping through hoops. It seems that with the Indonesian authorities it's going to be a one off process. Yes, you do have to jump through hoops to get settlement in the US and the UK and it's an invasive and costly business, but once you have you are good to go. I have no problem with the Thai authorities setting the bar high for those, like myself, extending their stay based on retirement and even proving annually that I still qualify for an extention, but I don't see why a married couple should have to jump through the same hoops on an annual basis - there, I've said it again. Basically agree with you. I've always maintained there is no real reason why married couples especially should need to continually prove their relationship. Equally, work rights and a transparent path to residency should be automatic - for married couples and long term work permit holders. Having said that, I've always through that the income requirement for married couples is a red-herring. Even if it wasn't officially needed, I can't see how you'd be able to live a semi-decent life in Thailand for 40K per month. I know that will invite comment from those who (qasi) live here on the smell of an oil rag, but it is essentially true. Let see if this gets through Indonesian parliament though. For those who are unfamiliar, the bureaucracy in Indo can be alot worse and unpredictable than Thailand - though I doubt people here would believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lite Beer Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Having said that, I've always through that the income requirement for married couples is a red-herring. Even if it wasn't officially needed, I can't see how you'd be able to live a semi-decent life in Thailand for 40K per month. Personally I would struggle to spend 40k a month. I and my Wife have a good life on a lot less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanyaburi Mac Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Having 400K in a bank or an income of 40K a month is hardly jumping through hoops is it OK maybe jumping through hoops was a bit strong, but you have to prove to the Thai immigration authorities that you have sufficient funds to support your spouse, and they require a figure which is a multiple of what an average Thai might earn, and of course the spouses income doesn't count. You then, I understand, have to provide details of your marital home and information similar to that. You then have to repeat the process every year, so no I stand by my view that it is jumping through hoops. It seems that with the Indonesian authorities it's going to be a one off process. Yes, you do have to jump through hoops to get settlement in the US and the UK and it's an invasive and costly business, but once you have you are good to go. I have no problem with the Thai authorities setting the bar high for those, like myself, extending their stay based on retirement and even proving annually that I still qualify for an extention, but I don't see why a married couple should have to jump through the same hoops on an annual basis - there, I've said it again. Basically agree with you. I've always maintained there is no real reason why married couples especially should need to continually prove their relationship. Equally, work rights and a transparent path to residency should be automatic - for married couples and long term work permit holders. Having said that, I've always through that the income requirement for married couples is a red-herring. Even if it wasn't officially needed, I can't see how you'd be able to live a semi-decent life in Thailand for 40K per month. I know that will invite comment from those who (qasi) live here on the smell of an oil rag, but it is essentially true. Guys, you forget the occasional divorce, which would then make the party ineligible for a "marriage" extension. This has happened to a couple friends in the past. So there is, perhaps, a reason for proving an on-going relationship. Same with income and extensions based on retirement, what if the income is no longer there? Perhaps only because of exchange rates, or perhaps because of a retirement fund crash in your home country. Reckon the Thai authorities want to ensure themselves that retirees, and married couples, won't end up on the Thai dole or on a Sukumvit corner bumming. Mac Mac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESB7 Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Having 400K in a bank or an income of 40K a month is hardly jumping through hoops is it OK maybe jumping through hoops was a bit strong, but you have to prove to the Thai immigration authorities that you have sufficient funds to support your spouse, and they require a figure which is a multiple of what an average Thai might earn, and of course the spouses income doesn't count. You then, I understand, have to provide details of your marital home and information similar to that. You then have to repeat the process every year, so no I stand by my view that it is jumping through hoops. It seems that with the Indonesian authorities it's going to be a one off process. Yes, you do have to jump through hoops to get settlement in the US and the UK and it's an invasive and costly business, but once you have you are good to go. I have no problem with the Thai authorities setting the bar high for those, like myself, extending their stay based on retirement and even proving annually that I still qualify for an extention, but I don't see why a married couple should have to jump through the same hoops on an annual basis - there, I've said it again. Because 400K equates to just over 30K a month...hardly an extorinate amount, so if it was onlly checked every 5 years that would give only 6K a month to live on, hardly appropriate....you must also realise we are not in the Western world, Thailand is surrounded by poorer nations thats citezens would give anything to settle here, and one way would be sham marriages(just looked at the UK at present)....so in reality it is a fair criteria.....and also dont forget now that a man married and working here for 3 years can apply for CITEZENSHIP....thats far easier than the UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villagefarang Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Having said that, I've always through that the income requirement for married couples is a red-herring. Even if it wasn't officially needed, I can't see how you'd be able to live a semi-decent life in Thailand for 40K per month. Personally I would struggle to spend 40k a month. I and my Wife have a good life on a lot less. I must be doing something wrong. No way we could live on 40k, and we live in a village in northern Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
007 Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 (edited) Having said that, I've always through that the income requirement for married couples is a red-herring. Even if it wasn't officially needed, I can't see how you'd be able to live a semi-decent life in Thailand for 40K per month. 40K baht - I used to live on that kind of money (in different currency, of course) back home in my OECD home country. Why would one need to spend the same money per month in a developing country like Thailand? I mean caviar each day, isn't that boring? Or maybe it's the nightlife which costs that much, besides your wife? Edited April 11, 2011 by 007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancelot Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 After reading the information on Indonesia, I do like that (foreign investors) after living there for three consecutive years may apply for permanent stay permits. But I doubt that retirees are classed as investors I have been hearing good things about Indonesia, that they are making serious attempts to tackle corruption, etc. Hope they succeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraSnakeNecktie Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 a lot of this is cultural. Japan even though being very modern and innovative is still very xenophobic and even though their economy needs immigrants desperately the refuse to open up at all. Thailand's reluctance to opening up is perhaps similar but less extreme to Japan's. I guess this indicates Indonesia is a little more about flexibility, growth and integration than Thailand. Indonesia can be pretty nice. There is a lot of diversity in terms of experiences there. Some islands I really like and some I would never ever consider living. They have some 17,000 islands in total. For me if they really improved the internet then now I would more seriously consider living and investing in Indonesia. Thailand largely wants to keep their investment in the hands of the local elites. Some time back I calculated the total capitalization value of the SET exchange. I was surprised to see it's total value at less than single office buildings in places like Paris, London, NYC, Tokyo etc. We are talking super flagship buildings but still it shows how public exchange traded investments are still quite small for thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Without trying to p*ss on anyones speculation about the future, I personally think Thailand will actually go the route of more restrictive policies as opposed to "modernsing" (what ever that means ?) its visa polices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Thailand largely wants to keep their investment in the hands of the local elites. Some time back I calculated the total capitalization value of the SET exchange. I was surprised to see it's total value at less than single office buildings in places like Paris, London, NYC, Tokyo etc. We are talking super flagship buildings but still it shows how public exchange traded investments are still quite small for thailand. You might want to check your Maths? Last I remember, and this is off the top of my head, the SET has a combined market capitalisation of about US$200Billion. The JSX was a maybe $250billion. A leading company such as PTT has a market cap of around $20bn. Granted, BHPB is about $160Billion, you can't say that the SET is worth less than a building in those places you mentioned. Or perhaps are you talking about daily turnover? If you mean that, then yes, turnover is alot less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Having said that, I've always through that the income requirement for married couples is a red-herring. Even if it wasn't officially needed, I can't see how you'd be able to live a semi-decent life in Thailand for 40K per month. 40K baht - I used to live on that kind of money (in different currency, of course) back home in my OECD home country. Why would one need to spend the same money per month in a developing country like Thailand? I mean caviar each day, isn't that boring? Or maybe it's the nightlife which costs that much, besides your wife? Caviar, salmon, oysters. And of course, your wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Having said that, I've always through that the income requirement for married couples is a red-herring. Even if it wasn't officially needed, I can't see how you'd be able to live a semi-decent life in Thailand for 40K per month. Personally I would struggle to spend 40k a month. I and my Wife have a good life on a lot less. I must be doing something wrong. No way we could live on 40k, and we live in a village in northern Thailand. 40k buy 1.200,000 Baht. even if i tried hard i wouldn't be able to spend that in one month. exceptions are those months when i go on a car shopping spree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 “Foreign investors, missionaries and social workers who have worked and stayed for three cosecutive years are allowed to apply for permanent stay permits, while expatriates who have married Indonesians need only two years to get a permanent stay permit. Moreover, their foreign spouses are allowed to seek jobs and make money,” he said. this is the most interesting part, so does this mean forigners will not need work permits if married? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 "Foreign investors, missionaries and social workers who have worked and stayed for three cosecutive years are allowed to apply for permanent stay permits, while expatriates who have married Indonesians need only two years to get a permanent stay permit. Moreover, their foreign spouses are allowed to seek jobs and make money," he said. this is the most interesting part, so does this mean forigners will not need work permits if married? Does seem that way...its always been one of the strange ones in Thailand, someone with PR needs a WP, anywhere else in world once you gain PR, you have all the rights of the citizen (expect voting) which includes being able to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikishrory Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Without trying to p*ss on anyones speculation about the future, I personally think Thailand will actually go the route of more restrictive policies as opposed to "modernsing" (what ever that means ?) its visa polices yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike123ca Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Without trying to p*ss on anyones speculation about the future, I personally think Thailand will actually go the route of more restrictive policies as opposed to "modernsing" (what ever that means ?) its visa polices yes! Thailand at the very least should make the ( Marriage ) O-visa equal for Male/Female spouses? I always wondered why it wasn't necessary for a Thai man to put up 400,000 baht to get a visa for his wife. Maybe the wife should put up 400,000 if she wants a visa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby nz Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 40k buy 1.200,000 Baht. even if i tried hard i wouldn't be able to spend that in one month. exceptions are those months when i go on a car shopping spree Isnt that 40k baht Naam? Like the 65kb for retirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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