Thai Police, Interpol And US FBI Jointly Raid Bangkok Ploenchit Office

[KKK]

Strangely I got a call from a BKK number today, what was a foreigner trying to sell me something ... oddly enough he knew my name. Perhaps buying mailing lists from a gym or something?

(relevant because when I checked the number on the internet it returned some stock agency.

I never bother answering my landline phone . Anybody that Knows me that wants to phone my landline knows to ring my mobile first let it ring just 1 time. then phone my landline.

Caller ID on your landline would tell you who was ringing. No need for caller to phone 2 numbers if that is installed. I only answer landline with known caller IDs. Plus if I'm not at home to answer landline then it redirects to mobile after 5 rings. Mine's a TT&T line, but same might be available on other lines.

[Bakseedaa]

No mate, Interpol and FBI being involved will make it harder for these guys to get off.

Interpol has no powers of arrest it exists for investigation only. What powers do you think the FBI have for a crime committed in Thailand, against antipodeans?

As maverick put it, "Just a walk in the park, kazanski"

US Jails Canadian 25 Years For Thai Child Sex Ring ... this guy was arrested in England, deported to the USA from London, and jailed for crimes in Thailand, he never commited a crime in the USA... Oh, he deserved to be jailed , but this case shows just what the long arm of the law can do... so, don`t be so sure... John Wrenshall, 64, is now where he belongs..!!

[jaiyenyen]

This was reported on the Thai TV News last night. Those arrested looked a pretty sorry bunch of losers, sitting cross legged on the floor, heads down, hands cuffed, not a sharp suit to be seen anywhere.

I only saw Thai police involved, although I wasn't looking for interpol, FBI etc, so they might have been there somewhere.

[palomnik]

I am (not at all) surpised that these boiler room operations still find victims. But then again, the Nigerian scam has been going on for several decades now. As long as there are naive, gullible and greedy people out there, they will continue to operate. After all, they wouldn't if there weren't any potential victims, right?

Exactly!

[meom]

No body seems to mind when they frequent the well known establishments built with boiler room money including prominent Irish bars and Mexican restaurants in Sukhumvit and Silom.

Personally if I know a place has boiler room connections I avoid it like the plague.

One of Andrew Drummond's recent articles alluded to the names of these places and the people that own them, unfortunately he seems to have removed it from his site.

“Name the top executive recently caught in a Bangkok boiler room scam” would make for a good question at O’Reilly’s weekly pub quiz.

[johncat1]

No mate, Interpol and FBI being involved will make it harder for these guys to get off.

It will be Interesting to find out how many Thai people are involved in this scam like police officers, government officials etc etc etc

BUT will Interpol and the FBI be persuaded to turn a blind eye to their involvement.

It would be interesting to see how the Thai authorities handle that because outside LAW enforcement agencies cannot be easily bribed liked the Thais can.

[Nawtier]

No excuse for being caught these days.

Andrew Drummond reports on it regularly....everyone reads Drummond right ?? ....or should anyway.

I think he removed the list because he was threatened.....hope he puts it back up.......something to do with a lunar eclipse company.....that is the front for all the BR enterprises.....read laundry's.

[ableguy]

Just the tip of the iceberg. Bangkok is crawling with these scumbags. I hope the cops etc name and shame the scum.

Maybe the scum should name and shame the cops, or someone should they dont come much worse.

[johncat1]

It is hard to believe that in this day and age, some people still don't get it. Greed is timeless. I guess.

I loved Maverick. Thanks for the reminder. Still grinning.

I am a teacher and a few years back several Thai teachers ( women of course ) with dollar signs in their eyes were telling me about the millions of Baht they were going to make from a Nigerian investment company .

It took a long time and a lot of example Nigerian scam letters / articles to convince them .

Even after this I was the villain because I burst their bubble

So it is not just poor uneducated people who fall for these scams it is also the HIGHLY educated GREEDY ones too.

Thailand is an easy target for these scams because people are so greedy here I am just surprised so many foreigners fall for them too

[Arkady]

I wonder when they will start to do something about the legalised side of scamming.

Bankers I mean.

Because of those bags of sh** millions of people lost money, jobs, houses, futures.

But the banking gangs just go on doling out bonus after bonus while gambling with other people's money.

exactly! i took a legal loan in 2007 from an american bank that went under. another american bank received government dollars from the bailout, bought my loan for pennies on the dollar, and now i will spend the next 30 years paying off that bank the full amount of a loan they bought at discount using my money, and paying interest through my taxes to the federal reserve who gave the money to the bank. crooks!

why didn't i get a chance to buy my loan back at a fraction of the cost? why didn't the government give me money?

The Thai system is more enlightened. After the tom yam crisis of 1997they let the corporate bad debtors repurchase their own debt at discounts through nominees and stuffed the taxpayer with the bill which is still a huge liability of the Bank of Thailand.

But don't worry the Fed has your interests at heart too. They are going to create loads of inflation which will effectively reduce the future value of your loan obligation which should be a generous discount. That is of course as long as you didn't take out one of those cheeky sub-prime jobs with a fixed two year teaser rates that revert to an adjustable rate after that to ensure the lender doesn't lose out from inflation. If you are working in Thailand and earning baht, you will have a further generous discount from the US "strong" dollar policy which means the opposite.

BTW why did you borrow the money, if you resent paying it back?

[maxman71]

Even if these miscreants walk on any Thai charges, the Aussies, Canucks, Brits and Yanks will have to find a way to divvy them up and shuttle them back home. Charges against them there won't be pretty.

I would like to see such joint cooperation in sandblasting clean the drug dealing openly taking place near Sukhumvit soi 3 every night. The Nigerians are having a field day there.

[Arkady]

Were the arrested boiler room boys selling the Football Fund and the long side of mortgage CDOs comprised of sub-prime loans to foreign retirees buying condos in Thailand, as well as handy advice on converting frozen UK pensions into a high risk offshore fund that pays an 8% front end load plus trailers to the salesman?

[maxman71]

I wonder when they will start to do something about the legalised side of scamming.

Bankers I mean.

Because of those bags of sh** millions of people lost money, jobs, houses, futures.

But the banking gangs just go on doling out bonus after bonus while gambling with other people's money.

exactly! i took a legal loan in 2007 from an american bank that went under. another american bank received government dollars from the bailout, bought my loan for pennies on the dollar, and now i will spend the next 30 years paying off that bank the full amount of a loan they bought at discount using my money, and paying interest through my taxes to the federal reserve who gave the money to the bank. crooks!

why didn't i get a chance to buy my loan back at a fraction of the cost? why didn't the government give me money?

The Thai system is more enlightened. After the tom yam crisis of 1997they let the corporate bad debtors repurchase their own debt at discounts through nominees and stuffed the taxpayer with the bill which is still a huge liability of the Bank of Thailand.

But don't worry the Fed has your interests at heart too. They are going to create loads of inflation which will effectively reduce the future value of your loan obligation which should be a generous discount. That is of course as long as you didn't take out one of those cheeky sub-prime jobs with a fixed two year teaser rates that revert to an adjustable rate after that to ensure the lender doesn't lose out from inflation. If you are working in Thailand and earning baht, you will have a further generous discount from the US "strong" dollar policy which means the opposite.

BTW why did you borrow the money, if you resent paying it back?

A classic example of an ever-growing mentality in the US..."where's mine???" The US (I am a Yank) has rapidly becoming a vast Mommy Government state with more and more people wanting and taking, and not making, contributing and being held accountable for their actions. It's someone else's problem to pay for. That's a huge reason I got the heck out if the US years ago. I saw this mess coming in 2005, sold my house in CA, got completely out of debt, etc. It wasn't hard to see coming. And, it's gonna get much worse when the USD loses its' reserve currency status. Very few people in the US realize this is coming because it's never happened before and they think the US could never lose supremacy. Fools.

[h5kaf]

No mate, Interpol and FBI being involved will make it harder for these guys to get off.

Interpol has no powers of arrest it exists for investigation only. What powers do you think the FBI have for a crime committed in Thailand, against antipodeans?

As maverick put it, "Just a walk in the park, kazanski"

I am pretty sure that if the FBI is involved they must have some powers or they would not bother. I have seen on TV (Television) a Interpol show with agents making arrest's for all sorts of crimes committed internationally. So what say ye

Sadly you are wrong.

The US agencies can do nothing.

I was under the impression that the US authorities gave themselves the right to go after anyone who attacks/kills etc a US citizen. Similarly they give themselves the right to prosecute in the USA any US citizen who has committed crime against Americans anywhere in the world. So no need for rendition the FBI can escort them back when they are thrown out of Thailand.

[on-on]

The FBI can work with the DOJ to bring cases against Americans caught abroad for various crimes - particularly when the crime itself involves telecommunication activity that passes through or terminates in America. As well, a number of laws have been passed in recent years to deal with the globalization of crimes and frauds targeted at Americans. One good example is the USA Safe Web Act, though that's targeted at allowing bi-directional sharing of information between the FTC and foreign governments (not the FBI). These kinds of laws have sections that specifically allow American agencies to cooperate with foreign agencies and to establish a formal method for sharing evidence so that the evidence can be used in the American legal system (and vice versa). Whether this particular case is driven by the FBI, who knows? Sounds mostly like Australian grievances, but the two nations are very cooperative and it's entirely plausible that if some Americans are involved the Australians requested assistance and the two, together, strongly asked the Thai government to intervene. And, of course, the FBI regularly sends teams abroad to investigate. The bombing of The USS Cole is a good example.

Good to see this kind of thing shut down, though, as many have pointed out, it's a drop in the bucket.

[ryladie99]

No mate, Interpol and FBI being involved will make it harder for these guys to get off.

[/quote

Let's watch and see I have no idea what will happen next ? You have a good point and on the other hand do not mess around with FBI.

My take.

[Shotime]

"A classic example of an ever-growing mentality in the US..."where's mine???" The US (I am a Yank) has rapidly becoming a vast Mommy Government state with more and more people wanting and taking, and not making, contributing and being held accountable for their actions. It's someone else's problem to pay for. That's a huge reason I got the heck out if the US years ago. I saw this mess coming in 2005, sold my house in CA, got completely out of debt, etc. It wasn't hard to see coming. And, it's gonna get much worse when the USD loses its' reserve currency status. Very few people in the US realize this is coming because it's never happened before and they think the US could never lose supremacy. Fools."

It doesn't take long to see they have an "entitlement" mentality.

[OzMick]

Strangely I got a call from a BKK number today, what was a foreigner trying to sell me something ... oddly enough he knew my name. Perhaps buying mailing lists from a gym or something?

(relevant because when I checked the number on the internet it returned some stock agency.

I never bother answering my landline phone . Anybody that Knows me that wants to phone my landline knows to ring my mobile first let it ring just 1 time. then phone my landline.

But, Doooooh. How will he/she know you are at home....!

Doh! when he's home, he answers the phone.

[Rainmon]

I've personally met a group of guys from Australia that have a call center selling investments out of Bangkok, not sure if they were licensed or had all the proper company papers. But they would bring in new sales people every 3 months. They were selling lawsuit investments promising returns of 50% or more...

[keith7777]

20 foreigners arrested for running boiler room scam

BANGKOK, April 8 -- Twenty foreigners were arrested at their Bangkok office for running a 'boiler room' scam in a joint operation involving the Thai police and international law enforcement agencies -- Australian and Canadian police in conjunction with the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI).

Thailand's Tourist Police Division Commander Pol Maj Gen Adis Ngamjitsuksri led the international law enforcement agencies to search an office on the 18th floor of the Amarin Tower on Ploenchit Road after receiving complaints from a large number of investors, especially Australians, who had been solicited by telephone salespersons based at a so-called "call centre" in Thailand to buy shares in overseas markets, particularly in Thailand and Hong Kong. They were also persuaded to invest in the gold futures market in Asian markets.

Thai police investigated and tracked down the telephone lines used by the suspects and located their office.

After the raid, 20 foreigners including Americans, Australians, Britons, Canadians, and Filipinos now working in the scam were arrested. The police found scripts for telephone conversations to use to persuade the victims, along with more than 20 mobile phones and fixed-line office telephones.

Moreover, lists of victims and their telephone numbers were found, mostly New Zealanders and Australians.

Initial investigation found that the office was rented on January 20 without obtaining permission to establish a company in Thailand.

It is believed that the operation had defrauded victims of more than Bt100 million.

The top executive in the operation was identified as Simon James, a Briton. He will initially be charged with working in Thailand without a work permit. The Thai authorities will coordinate with Interpol to check the background of all suspects and also the names on the list found to determine whether they were victims of the syndicate or not. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2011-04-08

Say what, you can be the best dude in the world at avoiding these scams and then one day it gets to you and you bite, there goes your money and avoidance power. It happened to me once, but only lost about $1,600 and felt lucky it was not more. What is the good of arresting these jerks you will not get your money back. The only thing you can hope for is that it costs them all they made and more to get out of it. I know they shut down the company that scammed me and prosecuted all those involved and I got back 10 cents on the dollar and it took years. It was also years ago that it happened to me, I buy nothing from a phone solicitation anymore since that time. (I know my spelling needs help !!!!!!!!!!).

[Bagwan]

Say what, you can be the best dude in the world at avoiding these scams and then one day it gets to you and you bite, there goes your money and avoidance power. It happened to me once, but only lost about $1,600 and felt lucky it was not more. What is the good of arresting these jerks you will not get your money back. The only thing you can hope for is that it costs them all they made and more to get out of it. I know they shut down the company that scammed me and prosecuted all those involved and I got back 10 cents on the dollar and it took years. It was also years ago that it happened to me, I buy nothing from a phone solicitation anymore since that time. (I know my spelling needs help !!!!!!!!!!).

Nothing wrong with your spelling ability, but your grammar needs attention.

[Bagwan]

I am a teacher and a few years back several Thai teachers ( women of course ) with dollar signs in their eyes were telling me about the millions of Baht they were going to make from a Nigerian investment company .

It took a long time and a lot of example Nigerian scam letters / articles to convince them .

Even after this I was the villain because I burst their bubble

So it is not just poor uneducated people who fall for these scams it is also the HIGHLY educated GREEDY ones too.

Thailand is an easy target for these scams because people are so greedy here I am just surprised so many foreigners fall for them too

That you know several Thai teachers ( women of course ) who are HIGHLY educated convinces me that you move in entirely different circles to me. My 11 year old niece recently taught her teacher how to divide one decimal number into another - and getting the decimal point in the answer in the right place. The little princess has of course had the benefit of my undivided attention, whereas the professional teacher has had to endure and survive the totally dysfunctional Thai education system. That anybody who is thought to be highly educated is working as a school teacher leads me to believe that although they acquired a modicum of knowledge, that they are not very bright.

[gemguy56]

It is not so difficult for the relevant authorities to find these companies.

I see thier advertisements posted on Craigs list looking for "brokers" to sell thier products.

My Girlfriend , while looking for employment , has responded to some of the advertisements and learned that the companies are illegal and they are boiler room scams.

Many look like proper companies at first ..but when you talk to the people and ask about salaries and the hours and the work related details the managers are vague and you just know they are dodgy.

That and they like to hire Filipinos ( becauae of the good English langauge skills ) and you can have a little meeting on the side with the Filipinos and they reveal the whole affair to be what it is...a scam..but they make very good money for Thailand .......50 to 60,000 Baht per month...with substantial bonus money also...another 50,000 to 100,000

Some scam companies are asking people to be a independant brokers and they will teach you how to be a commodities trader ( Oil, Precious Metals, Foriegn Exchange ) and train you from 2 to 3 months ( But no wages or salary paid...your decision ...at your expense ) and then you can log into thier computer based Brokerage trading operations which comes under the guidence of a "Team Manager" who directs your trading activities and you share in the commissions.

I surmize that many companies run legit operations in that manner....but it also plays well for illigetimate brokerage operations.

The classic "Boiler Room" Operations that run amuck here in Thailand are based on volumes of phone calls made to overseas residents.

Naturally there would be some people..a small percent ...that are looking to invest into legitimate investments and may have done so in the past and made some profit...so they fall prey to the scams also.

Yes they should be more carefull and they sould perform their "Due Diligence" before investing...but still..people make decisions to later learn it was a seriously bad decision.

When they choose to invest they believe they are investing legitimately and they are aware of the risks and take the chance.

Unfortunately they will lose everytime with the boiler room scams.

The boiler room scams use high pressure tactics applied by low life criminals so most people are more or less bullied into making a decision they would otherwise never make.

It is a percentage game with the boiler room scammers.

But why is it the main perpetrators of the scams have no problem finding people( white foreigners) to do thier dirty work and more importantly the many forigners who work the scam know well what they are participating in ......( Fraud ) ..but keep on participating.

I know ..it is the money.

I guess they feel that Thailand is such a big Scam itself, in so many ways and I guess they feel that the Thais and the whole Thai system is so corrupt that they feel the whole affair they involve themselves in is not morally or ethically so bad...as long as they do it in Thailand.

Back home I am certain 95% of them would never participate in anything like it...knowing full well what they are participating in.

I could never do it...not so openly like that...day after day..phoning people knowing full well you are cheating them..while lying to them and manipulating them into buying something that does not exist....with no remorse and total indifference to all the negative ramifications involved.

Having to sooth your own soul by telling yourself that you are simply shifting wealth from one person to another person and if people invest then that means they can afford to lose the money anyhow....thinking like that..while laughing at how gullible people are and how simple it is to get money from all those suckers out there.

Meantime ....while they live here in Thailand and cheat people on a daily basis they are outraged and lose it if a Tuk Tuk Driver quotes them a high price or the government changes the Visa requirements for foriegners ...or the price of pussy and beer goes up.

I think the Government of Thailand should allow all the other foriengners here to police those scum and round them up and give them a right and proper beating and then send them out of the country, back home, and let the authorities in their home countries jail them for at least 3 to 5 years.

Percieved Justice is such a nice thought!

[pinebits]

Good news. Let's hope these crooks are actually charged with fraud, providing investment advice without an SEC licence and tax evasion this time. They should round up all the other unlicensed scamsters posing as "independent financial advisors" while they are at it.

IFA's or independent financial advisors are totally different from "boiler room". IFA's don't sell bogus stock...rather they offer, life or health insurance, offer you advise on pensions, mortgage. Help you establish an offshore account. I guess, you've acquainted yourself with non licensed IFA's here in Bangkok that is why you thought that IFA's are like those people who works in a boiler room. That is not fair. My advisor has been here in Thailand for 20 years and they are licensed.

[jamesthefirst]

Why has the story gone cold over the last couple of days? I can't seem to find any information whatsoever regarding fresh updates etc.

[DarwinK]

Hi, I've been looking for a licensed IFA here in Thailand for some time. If you don't mind, could you pm me the website or contact details of yours?

Thanks, Darwin

IFA's or independent financial advisors are totally different from "boiler room". IFA's don't sell bogus stock...rather they offer, life or health insurance, offer you advise on pensions, mortgage. Help you establish an offshore account. I guess, you've acquainted yourself with non licensed IFA's here in Bangkok that is why you thought that IFA's are like those people who works in a boiler room. That is not fair. My advisor has been here in Thailand for 20 years and they are licensed.

[stanley2550]

Well in the Corruption, Scam, Extortion Capital of the world, I don't really think these foreginers have much to worry about. A couple of fists full of nice crisp 100 Dollar Greenbacks cures a lot in this country.

Its kind of like the pot calling the kettle black. In Thailand corruption, extortion, blackmail, paying off the police and the judges of both Foreigners and Thais is The Medium and The Message.

[troy04]

20 foreigners arrested for running boiler room scam

BANGKOK, April 8 -- Twenty foreigners were arrested at their Bangkok office for running a 'boiler room' scam in a joint operation involving the Thai police and international law enforcement agencies -- Australian and Canadian police in conjunction with the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI).

Thailand's Tourist Police Division Commander Pol Maj Gen Adis Ngamjitsuksri led the international law enforcement agencies to search an office on the 18th floor of the Amarin Tower on Ploenchit Road after receiving complaints from a large number of investors, especially Australians, who had been solicited by telephone salespersons based at a so-called "call centre" in Thailand to buy shares in overseas markets, particularly in Thailand and Hong Kong. They were also persuaded to invest in the gold futures market in Asian markets.

Thai police investigated and tracked down the telephone lines used by the suspects and located their office.

After the raid, 20 foreigners including Americans, Australians, Britons, Canadians, and Filipinos now working in the scam were arrested. The police found scripts for telephone conversations to use to persuade the victims, along with more than 20 mobile phones and fixed-line office telephones.

Moreover, lists of victims and their telephone numbers were found, mostly New Zealanders and Australians.

Initial investigation found that the office was rented on January 20 without obtaining permission to establish a company in Thailand.

It is believed that the operation had defrauded victims of more than Bt100 million.

The top executive in the operation was identified as Simon James, a Briton. He will initially be charged with working in Thailand without a work permit. The Thai authorities will coordinate with Interpol to check the background of all suspects and also the names on the list found to determine whether they were victims of the syndicate or not. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2011-04-08

I received 2 calls sound like this boiler room scam from a Bryan: 026275999 and 026753917

Anyone else?

[Arkady]

Hi, I've been looking for a licensed IFA here in Thailand for some time. If you don't mind, could you pm me the website or contact details of yours?

Thanks, Darwin

IFA's or independent financial advisors are totally different from "boiler room". IFA's don't sell bogus stock...rather they offer, life or health insurance, offer you advise on pensions, mortgage. Help you establish an offshore account. I guess, you've acquainted yourself with non licensed IFA's here in Bangkok that is why you thought that IFA's are like those people who works in a boiler room. That is not fair. My advisor has been here in Thailand for 20 years and they are licensed.

Licensing of financial advisors, whether the so called independent ones or otherwise is always done in the jurisdiction in which they operate. Therefore the only way that financial advisors working in Thailand can be licensed is if they are licensed by the Thai SEC. To be licensed by the SEC you have to work for an approved firm and pass an exam in Thai. For a financial advisory firm to be approved by the SEC, it is necessary to apply before registering the firm, since they only want clean firms that are not in other businesses applying. The SEC will scrutinise the financial qualifications of the principals, the business plan and particularly the fee structure. Fees must be totally transparent and reasonable. SEC doesn't permit Thai financial advisors or mutual fund companies to charge front end loads, trailers, exit fees, early redemption fees or any of the other hidden fees that are charged by the expat "IFAs". Most of these "IFAs" are British and the SEC has never licensed any British financial advisors with the right to deal with individual clients. Therefore, all the British "IFAs" working in Thailand who claim to be licensed are lying, although some other well qualified foreigners have been licensed. The SEC looks for a recognized financial qualification, such as an MBA in finance, an MSc in finance, a CFP, CFA or CPA. Needless to say most of the former English teacher "IFAs", or even the former insurance salesmen, would not be considered by the SEC.

The UK's IFA only licenses financial advisors who work in the UK for an approved firm domiciled in the UK and they are only licensed to provide advice to clients who are resident in the UK. In the UK's Financial Services and Markets Act the UK is defined as mainland UK. Thus the IFA doesn't license individuals or firms based in the Channel Islands or Isle of Man which are covered by their own considerably laxer financial ordinances. It is possible that some of the expat financial advisors working in Thailand have previously been licensed by the IFA but that licensing expired the moment they ceased to be working in mainland UK for an approved firm domiciled in mainland UK. Most, however, if they have any experience of selling financial products have done nothing more sophisticated that sell all of life insurance policies on commission only without a salary. If you don't believe me, call the IFA and the Thai SEC.

Edited April 12, 2011 by Arkady

[nocturn]

This was reported on the Thai TV News last night. Those arrested looked a pretty sorry bunch of losers, sitting cross legged on the floor, heads down, hands cuffed, not a sharp suit to be seen anywhere.

I only saw Thai police involved, although I wasn't looking for interpol, FBI etc, so they might have been there somewhere.

why would they need suits in this climate to make phone calls?