Recruiting Thai Staff And Salaries

[TravelerEastWest]

Recruiting Thai Staff and Salaries:

A while back there was an interesting thread on salaries for Thai staff and recruiting ideas which was helpful.

I am looking for new ideas we are in Bangkok.

We have an export craft business where we make a number of different products. Eye hand coordination, patience and some math skill as well as common sense is needed and the ability to work independently.

Training will be provided in a 3 month training program with 280 baht per day then 8000 per month with vacations and monthly and annual bonuses as well a retirement plan. Raises are based on skill so after two years around 15,000 per month.

University grads are not interested even when w offer more than they will get elsewhere. No education is required although we prefer high school.

Work environment is AC, Thai music lunches out etc..

Finding workers is easy but finding workers with talent who want a career is difficult.

All my business friends say you need some luck to find the right staff. I want create my own luck.

Any ideas on how to find talented staff?

Should I rasie my pay?

[givenall]

So far living in Thailand and running a business, I havenoticed the concepts of having carrier with a company is foreign to Thai people. They tendto try stating their own business (with very high failure rate), even if is notwhat they work as in a company owned by others with even much less income asthey possibly can earn in a company.

[ESB7]

Can tell you now, the company I worked for in BKK 2 years ago paid the cleaning lady 14,000 a month for a 5 day week and free meals plus all the holidays......most people on here are out of touch and living in the past, salaries of 6k etc a month went out with the ark......low paid jobs normally come with free acommodation and meals also.....you must remember that it isnt onle a decent salary and benefits...its also a decent boss that respects the workforce...

[TravelerEastWest]

Can tell you now, the company I worked for in BKK 2 years ago paid the cleaning lady 14,000 a month for a 5 day week and free meals plus all the holidays......most people on here are out of touch and living in the past, salaries of 6k etc a month went out with the ark......low paid jobs normally come with free acommodation and meals also.....you must remember that it isnt onle a decent salary and benefits...its also a decent boss that respects the workforce...

ESB7,

Thank you for your thoughts. A decent boss is a good point even more so in Thailand than elsewhere. Sanook on the job is indeed important. My wife regularly takes the staff out to lunch and buys music taht they like for our workshop etc.

I agree that for 6,000 baht a month you do not get much which is why we pay more. Roughly what your cleaning lady was making after not long but with a big difference our work is interesting and has a career path to make 30,000+ per month with a retirement plan etc.

Our main challenge is not salaries - it seems - but simply finding people at any salary who want to be expert craftpeople. 30 years ago this would not have been a problem in Thailand.

Edited April 13, 2011 by TravelerEastWest

[samran]

Put simply, Thailand isn't the low wage country many people believe it is. If the option is getting paid 8000 baht/month working for someone else, or working yourself to try and earn that, I'd argue that most people would go for the latter each time.

Graduates aren't going to be interested - they are looking for a defined career path that many small businesses simply can't offer. I consult to a boutique advisory company in the finance sector and skilled people there are hard to come by even though we offer more interesting work, with better pay. Even then, they jump ship the second a 'major company' offers them a job - often for less.

Having said that, have you thought about trying to employ immigrant workers (Lao, Burmese, Cambodian?). It is relatively straight forward to get the required paperwork for them and spread the word around their particular communities. I'd suggest you'd get a better work ethic as well from them too.

[Moonrakers]

My Mrs was offered a job for about 6k once

Unemployed at the time and bored with nothing to do, she considered just for something to keep her occupied.

We worked out that if she accepted the job, the cost of transportation, food etc. made it more cost effective for her to refuse the job and stay at home. She could have made it cheaper by getting the bus, but that would mean spending hours each day stuck in traffic.

8k month, that's just 2k/week...... The OP needs to ask himself what they are supposed to do with that money and why good staff would accept it if they have other options which, if they are to be graduates, they will have.

[TravelerEastWest]

My Mrs was offered a job for about 6k once

Unemployed at the time and bored with nothing to do, she considered just for something to keep her occupied.

We worked out that if she accepted the job, the cost of transportation, food etc. made it more cost effective for her to refuse the job and stay at home. She could have made it cheaper by getting the bus, but that would mean spending hours each day stuck in traffic.

8k month, that's just 2k/week...... The OP needs to ask himself what they are supposed to do with that money and why good staff would accept it if they have other options which, if they are to be graduates, they will have.

Moonrakers,

Thank you for your comments and you are indeed quite right a 6,000 baht job is indeed sometimes so low as to make a job not worth it if commuting is an issue although your situation is not the norm as you probably can support your wife easily. Many individuals though must work and take minmum wage factory jobs and live live of quiet desperation - who said that? Thoreau?

My OP may not have been clear we pay more for college grads and for those without an education (100% of our current workers) we pay to start 7,800 (280 x 26) + monthly bonus so over 8,000 per month to train. With a great working environment air conditioning, music, lots of sanook etc. They will be making as much as college grads in time so short of starting their own business we are a good option - I think.

A few of our potential staff when interviewed have made more tahn we offer but they tend to be older and not have good health/eyesight/career potential so it did not work out. We can't hire for short term work as our training costs are too high.

The main issue here is where to find good staff with eye/hand coordination pay is secondary as if needed we could raise the pay

[TravelerEastWest]

Samran,

Your post is a good one and I have read it several times.

I am sorry for any confusion in my post but we pay more than 8,000 with bonuses and fast raises based on skill not length of service. Also many people simply don't like to work for themselves - but that is a side issue as we don't hire those who enjoy having their own buiness - simply because they are likely to leave and our training costs are high.

I understood your jumping ship comment very well. And it is culturally to go to a bigger company even with smaller pay, and many prefer government work with even lower pay.

I don't think the lack of career path is a big issue for hiring grads instead it is the culture to not work with your hands if you have a degree. Soon we will need to start hiring graphic designers and accountants. I understand that the best and brightest will go to big firms but hopefully we should be able to hire what we need...

Your suggestion for migrant workers is a good one which we have looked at and sadly they typically are not going to be that dependable from what my business owner friends tell me and unless their are exceptions to the work permit rules for teh 3 countries we still need a 4 to 1 Thai to foreign worker ratio (I hope there is an exception that I don't know about). Also the Laotians and Cambodians get homesick.

The Burmese are said to be the best possibility if you can make the paperwork happen which usually is once a year although temporary permits are said to be available. Then there is the restricted area of employment that will probably prevent us from using non Thai. (We sew silk by hand as a daily part of what we do)

But again the main point is finding Thai who want a career making luxury items of high quality by hand.

In the end we may simply need to setup a school/intern program and then train over a long period of time.

[jdinasia]

My advice is fairly simple.

Get out of BKK. Even 100km out, like in Nakhon Nayok or Saraburi etc., There are fewer job opportunities and quite often a better work ethic. Then find a local woman to head up recruitment/hiring and talk to her at length about what your real needs are and turn her loose to find the employees. Your local HR head may very well be your most important person in the company locally so seriously spend time on that staffing decision.

[12DrinkMore]

My advice is fairly simple.

Get out of BKK. Even 100km out, like in Nakhon Nayok or Saraburi etc., There are fewer job opportunities and quite often a better work ethic. Then find a local woman to head up recruitment/hiring and talk to her at length about what your real needs are and turn her loose to find the employees. Your local HR head may very well be your most important person in the company locally so seriously spend time on that staffing decision.

Good advice.

Just travelling around in BKK, to and from work and several thousand Bahts are gone. Add in accommodation and food and, well, what is left over?

[jdinasia]

My advice is fairly simple.

Get out of BKK. Even 100km out, like in Nakhon Nayok or Saraburi etc., There are fewer job opportunities and quite often a better work ethic. Then find a local woman to head up recruitment/hiring and talk to her at length about what your real needs are and turn her loose to find the employees. Your local HR head may very well be your most important person in the company locally so seriously spend time on that staffing decision.

Good advice.

Just travelling around in BKK, to and from work and several thousand Bahts are gone. Add in accommodation and food and, well, what is left over?

There is a lot of cheap housing (Thai style) available in BKK for 1200 a month up and busses are cheap, but the quality of employee you get is the type that would live in places like that.

In Saraburi or Nakhon Nayok you can find a house in town for about 5k a month (in other words something nice for the same price as a slum in BKK if you share with coworkers.) Add decent working conditions and a boss that cares and you can build a loyal workforce.

[TravelerEastWest]

My advice is fairly simple.

Get out of BKK. Even 100km out, like in Nakhon Nayok or Saraburi etc., There are fewer job opportunities and quite often a better work ethic. Then find a local woman to head up recruitment/hiring and talk to her at length about what your real needs are and turn her loose to find the employees. Your local HR head may very well be your most important person in the company locally so seriously spend time on that staffing decision.

jdinasia,

Thank you for your ideas - much appreciated.

We used to have a workshop in the countryside but we were 4 - 5 hours from Bangkok and we found the quality of staff much lower in Bangkok as in they simply did not want complicated work and did not care about making more than the minmum wage. They were very happy to work like drones doing the same job over and over again.

So far Bangkok has been better for staffing and for personal reasons we need to be in Bangkok - school age kids that need an American school etc.. And I will not consider commuting in Bangkok.

Now hiring HR staff to recruit is an important option to consider. But I am considering a variation of the traditional employee responsible for recruiting. My thoughts are

to find some high school teachers who know their villages and community in multiple locations and then pay them 5,000 baht per recruit that passes training.

Perhaps we can pay out of pocket expenses etc while they are looking for staff. Again money is not an obstacle - we are flexible and can pay above market rates. Finding career minded staff with talent is the only challenge.

We have an empty small apartment that can be used for upcountry recruits while they spend 2 days testing. we can pay for transportation and food etc..

We can also rent a larger apartment/s as needed.

[TravelerEastWest]

Good advice. Just travelling around in BKK, to and from work and several thousand Bahts are gone. Add in accommodation and food and, well, what is left over?

12drinkmore,

You are correct transportation is always important to consider.

Two thoughts for us:

1) Songthao and bus are roughly 5 to 10 bhat each way so under a 1,000 baht per month typically as our staff do not drive cars.

2) We are considering buying a Van and have a driver pickup and return our staff from central points at no charge.

But again the only real challenge is finding very talented staff with eye hand coordination and interest in a long-term career.

[samran]

Samran,

Your post is a good one and I have read it several times.

I am sorry for any confusion in my post but we pay more than 8,000 with bonuses and fast raises based on skill not length of service. Also many people simply don't like to work for themselves - but that is a side issue as we don't hire those who enjoy having their own buiness - simply because they are likely to leave and our training costs are high.

I understood your jumping ship comment very well. And it is culturally to go to a bigger company even with smaller pay, and many prefer government work with even lower pay.

I don't think the lack of career path is a big issue for hiring grads instead it is the culture to not work with your hands if you have a degree. Soon we will need to start hiring graphic designers and accountants. I understand that the best and brightest will go to big firms but hopefully we should be able to hire what we need...

Your suggestion for migrant workers is a good one which we have looked at and sadly they typically are not going to be that dependable from what my business owner friends tell me and unless their are exceptions to the work permit rules for teh 3 countries we still need a 4 to 1 Thai to foreign worker ratio (I hope there is an exception that I don't know about). Also the Laotians and Cambodians get homesick.

The Burmese are said to be the best possibility if you can make the paperwork happen which usually is once a year although temporary permits are said to be available. Then there is the restricted area of employment that will probably prevent us from using non Thai. (We sew silk by hand as a daily part of what we do)

But again the main point is finding Thai who want a career making luxury items of high quality by hand.

In the end we may simply need to setup a school/intern program and then train over a long period of time.

In terms of hiring nationals from those three countries - if you hired them via the migrant labour programme, I'm 99% sure that your firm would be exempt from the 4 to 1 rule for work permits etc. It is essentially a scheme which lets migrants from these countries have their status' regularised in Thailand (many of them enter illegally). It is a well known scheme and the local labour office will know all about it. It is a separate scheme to the 'traditional' workpermit and visa scheme which all other foreigners have to go through. (eg most of the burmese labourers you see in factories or on building sites are usually hired under these programmes). All you need is a registered Thai company to hire them.

The scheme offers renewable 2 year work permits - and provides them access to the Thai social security scheme. A big attraction for foreign workers from these countries. I wrote about this scheme a little while back in the visa and work permit forum - do a search there for my thread.

Good luck with it all.

[TravelerEastWest]

"In terms of hiring nationals from those three countries - if you hired them via the migrant labour programme, I'm 99% sure that your firm would be exempt from the 4 to 1 rule for work permits etc. It is essentially a scheme which lets migrants from these countries have their status' regularised in Thailand (many of them enter illegally). It is a well known scheme and the local labour office will know all about it. It is a separate scheme to the 'traditional' workpermit and visa scheme which all other foreigners have to go through. (eg most of the burmese labourers you see in factories or on building sites are usually hired under these programmes). All you need is a registered Thai company to hire them.

The scheme offers renewable 2 year work permits - and provides them access to the Thai social security scheme. A big attraction for foreign workers from these countries. I wrote about this scheme a little while back in the visa and work permit forum - do a search there for my thread.

Good luck with it all."

Thank you very much for the exception information I will look for your thread and see if the type of labor is also exempted.

[TravelerEastWest]

Correction:

I mentioned that Bangkok workers were not that good in a post above I meant the workers from the countryside.

Those in the city seem more serious

[Prudent_rabbit]

I agree with most of the posters here in that 8k isnt going to cut it, however you may have overlooked an option. All around Bangkok there are a number of charitys that work with abandined children, mothers trying to get off the street, Father Joe's is one, there is another called Goodwill that helps underprivalaged womed, Sisters of the good shepard etc etc. Most of the adult learners here are trying to break through the poverty line, but due to circumstances and little or no education they dont have a lot of choice, why dont you speak with these organisations and see if they have available talent, if good hand to eye co-ord is the key and not a degree, you might have some luck

[TravelerEastWest]

I agree with most of the posters here in that 8k isnt going to cut it, however you may have overlooked an option. All around Bangkok there are a number of charitys that work with abandined children, mothers trying to get off the street, Father Joe's is one, there is another called Goodwill that helps underprivalaged womed, Sisters of the good shepard etc etc. Most of the adult learners here are trying to break through the poverty line, but due to circumstances and little or no education they dont have a lot of choice, why dont you speak with these organisations and see if they have available talent, if good hand to eye co-ord is the key and not a degree, you might have some luck

Prudent Rabbit,

A very interesting idea - thank you. Although we need very stable workers from the first day.

As for the salary - again my apologies if I was not clear we pay above 8,000 per month (including bonuses) from day one as a training pay. Salaries will go up quickly depending on entirely on skill so we do not set the salaries after the first couple of months. If someone had high skill levels they would be making 12 to 15,000 after 3 months plus bonuses - with no education requirement and further raises...

Updates:

My father-in-law visited a number of villages in Isan for us and found many people doing "factory" type sewing which is not what we need but sometimes when we interview and test 20 workers with factory sewing background we find one good person so there is a possibility.

Interestingly when we told the workers about our starting salary of 300 baht per day with bonuses and rapid raises they could not believe it saying the payment was too high and something sounded "wrong". Anotherwords they are used to everyone paying the Isan minimum wage to start - just over 200 baht per day. So 50% higher than the minimum to start was strange to them.

When my wife spoke to them on the phone they felt better.

PS

I have received a number of very friendly and helpful private messages - thank you everyone for your ideas you are all kind to take the time to try and help us.

Edited April 24, 2011 by TravelerEastWest

[RAZZELL]

What exactly do you make?

RAZZ

[tpiety2]

What exactly do you make?

RAZZ

I to would like to know more about what u make and the exact work they would be required to perform? I live in phetchabun and I know a number of thais here and elsewhere in thailand that are intelligent and coordinated. Most of them have family working in and close ties to bkk, maybe if I could give them a better description of what they would be doing they would be interested in testing for you. Just a thought.

[TravelerEastWest]

What exactly do you make?

RAZZ

I to would like to know more about what u make and the exact work they would be required to perform? I live in phetchabun and I know a number of thais here and elsewhere in thailand that are intelligent and coordinated. Most of them have family working in and close ties to bkk, maybe if I could give them a better description of what they would be doing they would be interested in testing for you. Just a thought.

Thank you very much for your thoughtfulness in asking for more details!

We make luxury clothing by hand from silk, linen, cashmere and wool for export. Perhaps 5% of the time a sewing machine is used.

The exact work is primarily very detailed hand sewing that has to be perfect - if even one stitch is off we start again.

The work requires in addition to hand/eye skill some basic math ability for changing patterns.

Also we need career people who want to work for 20+ years.

Must be friendly and honest and hard working.

In theory no direct experience is required. Sometimes no experience is even better for the right person. We have hired people with years of factory experienc e who did a terrible job and retraining them our way was very difficult.

Good health - to stand for long hours and ability to thread a very small needle (smaller than needles typically found in Thailand)