When Will All The Water Throwing Stop?

[realthaideal]

I was riding a motorbike among a number of trucks going into town this morning; they were loaded with people. At one corner with a traffic light, seven or eight Thai people were squirted, though it missed a few. The ones who felt the wet, including a boy about 10 and adults, laughed, delighted - and it seemed those not dampened were disappointed.

The truth is that I keep seeing it as a kind of assault. Gotta change my head; maybe get there next year, as I was able to extinguish most of my dislike by Day III, the resistance that remains connected to safety issues. Getting rid of who I was - the part that misses out on a different good - calls for some kind of attitude, not necessarily habit or self-righteousness learned in the old country. It's one thing to eat chopped frog, snake, and tendon, but another to feel blessed as a recipient of a bucket of water, it seems.

(I have no idea what one contributor meant when he wrote that it is cheap to get in a car in Thailand. Old bangers run 100,000, and cabs have not used meters here for a long time, and it depends too where you live.)

CMX I appreciate your honesty about trying to adapt and try a new outlook. Life, let alone Thailand, demands that we try to go beyond our comfort zones and see/ live a new way. It's not

always easy, and some changes/ new perspectives aren't right for us in the end, but at least trying the ideas out for yourself is the best way to make a judgment call. Thanks for posting a refreshing comment for us all.

[midgeley20]

The whole Songkran festival polarises opinion like no other here on TV. Here's my view. Someone here said Songkran should be embraced as other festivities such as western new year, Chinese new year, Christmas and so forth; if you don't totally join in you are clearly a grumpy old farrang who simply doesn't 'get' Thailand and frankly is not wanted here. I agree to a point, where I diverge is this. I can quite easily opt out of New Year drunken excess, miss Chinese street parties if lion dancing doesn't float my boat, even the impact of Christmas in the west can be minimalised (apart from two months of Christmas music endlessly played in every store) and we can celebrate or be left in peace. Unfortunately, what Songkran means for many is six days or more when their daily lives are completely disrupted. Travelling, shopping, cycling, exercising, working in fact most aspects of life are seriously compromised if not ruled out. I'm all for the 'right to party' but I equally defend anyone's right to opt out of it and be left in peace. And the comments of "if you don't like it stay home" aimed at those who want to go about there daily lives without gaffawing idiots dousing them with stinky or icy water or risking serious injury on the roads for SIX or more days I find frankly insulting, akin to going round to neighbours at 3 am whose drunken noisy party is keeping one awake to be told, "what's your problem, we're only having FUN!" If this all makes me a grumpy curmudgeon, so well and good.

[midgeley20]

Oh, and to nip any 'you're just anti-Thai" acusations in the bud I think the traditions of respecting elders and monks with water, washing Buddhas and a day of nam len to be delightful, gentle, life affirming activitities to be encouraged. It's the overlong, disruptive, often alcohol fueled, dangerous excesses I'm refering to in my previous post. Thanks

[jackr]

Honestly, this forum is the major "negative" vibe I ever get in Chiang Mai and one reason I (and most people I know who live here) rarely read it as a result.

I agree and propose to the board a simple solution: remove all signees from 2005 onwards... George?

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

It's like the Hill Tribes complaining about not having blankets for a week or so in the winter. They had all year to prepare right? Get some cold weather gear together during the year. Hold onto last years donated blanket.

Same with us expats. It's hard to complain too much because we all know it's coming because it happens on cue every year...

Stock up on food, books, DVD's, water, alcohol, gerbils, barbed wire or whatever floats your boat. These days with the internet it's a cornucopia of entertainment for the taking in the form of audio books, music, TV shows, Lectures, Movies, Documentaries.. Pretty much everything at your finger tips.

It's not like its a surprise celebration.

Still it's an unbalanced ritual that tolerates so much injury and death. Cultural apologists take note there is nothing respectful about driving drunk and killing a few hundred and seriously injuring thousands. Aggressive water throwing foreigners are obnoxious but the true dis-respecters are the inebriated drivers..

Would be nice if they somehow reeled it in and got back to the traditional method.

[jdinasia]

It's like the Hill Tribes complaining about not having blankets for a week or so in the winter. They had all year to prepare right? Get some cold weather gear together during the year. Hold onto last years donated blanket.

Same with us expats. It's hard to complain too much because we all know it's coming because it happens on cue every year...

Stock up on food, books, DVD's, water, alcohol, gerbils, barbed wire or whatever floats your boat. These days with the internet it's a cornucopia of entertainment for the taking in the form of audio books, music, TV shows, Lectures, Movies, Documentaries.. Pretty much everything at your finger tips.

It's not like its a surprise celebration.

Still it's an unbalanced ritual that tolerates so much injury and death. Cultural apologists take note there is nothing respectful about driving drunk and killing a few hundred and seriously injuring thousands. Aggressive water throwing foreigners are obnoxious but the true dis-respecters are the inebriated drivers..

Would be nice if they somehow reeled it in and got back to the traditional method.

Traditionally it HAS been a big deal BUT limited in scope for the real water playing. Meaning the population at large could still go about their business and people wanting to toss water in Chiang Mai could go to the Ping.

Again, I LOVE Songkran but 3 days is enough

[ChiangMaiFun]

I'm so sorry if I offended anyone by calling Songkran "nonsense". Of course it isn't. I love Thailand. It's the continuation of water throwing after the "official" holiday that I was questioning.

I did a massive grocery shopping on Monday just so I don't have to go out during the holiday, except when I want to play water games with the neighbors and dress accordingly. I don't have a car. Last year we tried to go to a movie during the "official" holiday and had no problem in getting to the mall in the morning. However, during the return the song thaew stopped at every water station in the old city, drenching us and the few things we'd bought at the mall. I guess we should have taken one of those metered taxis that hang around outside Central Airport Plaza.

I like to go to movies. I enjoy the experience of seeing a film in a Thai-owned movie theater. I'm so sorry if my movie-going hobby has offended anyone.

Just forget I asked.

you don't have to completely back-track you know - say what you believe and believe what you say

[Throatwobbler]

Yeah it's another 'happy new years'.....that makes three this year....ours, Chinese and then Thai new years, which is way over the top. I enjoyed my first one 12 yrs ago and then from then on it became an 'inconvenient nusance'.

And yeah, let the natives have fun at the expense of safety for their kids and themselves.....not to mention others harmed by their stupid over the top drinking habits.

I say the above after just having participating in a local village 3 day party that I had to attend to save face for the wife.....make my apearance throw some water, fake drink some lousy beer chiang and exit quietly. What I witnessed out in our small moobaan in the ricefields was total insanity......parents drunk while their kids ran into traffic, throwing full 5 gallon buckets of water on older folks that were just trying to get home dry, teenagers [age 12 and 13 drunk like their parents] then weaving off drunk on their motocycs. And to answer the OP's question.....it will last until Monday [and then some more].

Thais are wonderful people, but they just take 'sanook' way over the top. I love them when they are sober.

Next year, I'm out of the country for songkran!!

me too but I couldn't get a flight this year enjoyment is one thing but it's just an orgy without the sex - a million miles from the respectful mild splashing of water

Well all the Thai's I know say please fly out and don't come back.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Yeah it's another 'happy new years'.....that makes three this year....ours, Chinese and then Thai new years, which is way over the top. I enjoyed my first one 12 yrs ago and then from then on it became an 'inconvenient nusance'.

And yeah, let the natives have fun at the expense of safety for their kids and themselves.....not to mention others harmed by their stupid over the top drinking habits.

I say the above after just having participating in a local village 3 day party that I had to attend to save face for the wife.....make my apearance throw some water, fake drink some lousy beer chiang and exit quietly. What I witnessed out in our small moobaan in the ricefields was total insanity......parents drunk while their kids ran into traffic, throwing full 5 gallon buckets of water on older folks that were just trying to get home dry, teenagers [age 12 and 13 drunk like their parents] then weaving off drunk on their motocycs. And to answer the OP's question.....it will last until Monday [and then some more].

Thais are wonderful people, but they just take 'sanook' way over the top. I love them when they are sober.

Next year, I'm out of the country for songkran!!

me too but I couldn't get a flight this year enjoyment is one thing but it's just an orgy without the sex - a million miles from the respectful mild splashing of water

Well all the Thai's I know say please fly out and don't come back.

all the Thais I know hate drunken farangs ruining their festival

[Throatwobbler]

It's like the Hill Tribes complaining about not having blankets for a week or so in the winter. They had all year to prepare right? Get some cold weather gear together during the year. Hold onto last years donated blanket.

Same with us expats. It's hard to complain too much because we all know it's coming because it happens on cue every year...

Stock up on food, books, DVD's, water, alcohol, gerbils, barbed wire or whatever floats your boat. These days with the internet it's a cornucopia of entertainment for the taking in the form of audio books, music, TV shows, Lectures, Movies, Documentaries.. Pretty much everything at your finger tips.

It's not like its a surprise celebration.

Still it's an unbalanced ritual that tolerates so much injury and death. Cultural apologists take note there is nothing respectful about driving drunk and killing a few hundred and seriously injuring thousands. Aggressive water throwing foreigners are obnoxious but the true dis-respecters are the inebriated drivers..

Would be nice if they somehow reeled it in and got back to the traditional method.

Traditionally it HAS been a big deal BUT limited in scope for the real water playing. Meaning the population at large could still go about their business and people wanting to toss water in Chiang Mai could go to the Ping.

Again, I LOVE Songkran but 3 days is enough

I agree but what I get fed up with is Falangs telling Thai's how Songkran should be. What would you think if you had thai's telling us that Thanksgiving or Guy fawkes should be in the traditional sense. Posters here who are telling the Thai's how to hold their festivals are misguided at best and just rude and obnoxious at worst..

Edited April 15, 2011 by Throatwobbler

[Throatwobbler]

The whole Songkran festival polarises opinion like no other here on TV. Here's my view. Someone here said Songkran should be embraced as other festivities such as western new year, Chinese new year, Christmas and so forth; if you don't totally join in you are clearly a grumpy old farrang who simply doesn't 'get' Thailand and frankly is not wanted here. I agree to a point, where I diverge is this. I can quite easily opt out of New Year drunken excess, miss Chinese street parties if lion dancing doesn't float my boat, even the impact of Christmas in the west can be minimalised (apart from two months of Christmas music endlessly played in every store) and we can celebrate or be left in peace. Unfortunately, what Songkran means for many is six days or more when their daily lives are completely disrupted. Travelling, shopping, cycling, exercising, working in fact most aspects of life are seriously compromised if not ruled out. I'm all for the 'right to party' but I equally defend anyone's right to opt out of it and be left in peace. And the comments of "if you don't like it stay home" aimed at those who want to go about there daily lives without gaffawing idiots dousing them with stinky or icy water or risking serious injury on the roads for SIX or more days I find frankly insulting, akin to going round to neighbours at 3 am whose drunken noisy party is keeping one awake to be told, "what's your problem, we're only having FUN!" If this all makes me a grumpy curmudgeon, so well and good.

Yes you are a grumpy F***er, Yet another Thai Viser who want moves to another culture and gets annoyed when it's not like their own. Do thailand a favour and get out of here. For F'S*** sake it's not that hard to avoid. Just stay inside for a few days. I do that all the time in the winter at home.

[Throatwobbler]

Yeah it's another 'happy new years'.....that makes three this year....ours, Chinese and then Thai new years, which is way over the top. I enjoyed my first one 12 yrs ago and then from then on it became an 'inconvenient nusance'.

And yeah, let the natives have fun at the expense of safety for their kids and themselves.....not to mention others harmed by their stupid over the top drinking habits.

I say the above after just having participating in a local village 3 day party that I had to attend to save face for the wife.....make my apearance throw some water, fake drink some lousy beer chiang and exit quietly. What I witnessed out in our small moobaan in the ricefields was total insanity......parents drunk while their kids ran into traffic, throwing full 5 gallon buckets of water on older folks that were just trying to get home dry, teenagers [age 12 and 13 drunk like their parents] then weaving off drunk on their motocycs. And to answer the OP's question.....it will last until Monday [and then some more].

Thais are wonderful people, but they just take 'sanook' way over the top. I love them when they are sober.

Next year, I'm out of the country for songkran!!

me too but I couldn't get a flight this year enjoyment is one thing but it's just an orgy without the sex - a million miles from the respectful mild splashing of water

Well all the Thai's I know say please fly out and don't come back.

all the Thais I know hate drunken farangs ruining their festival

I agree but also all the Thais don't want falang telling them what to do.

[jdinasia]

Well all the Thai's I know say please fly out and don't come back.

all the Thais I know hate drunken farangs ruining their festival

That accounts for 4 Thai people .......

Get real both of you! The farang contingent is limited in scope and location, and the Thais that want to play that way go where they are ... On the moat by my house Thais are playing and having fun and outnumber the foreigners 100:1 and are still very rowdy

[Throatwobbler]

Well all the Thai's I know say please fly out and don't come back.

all the Thais I know hate drunken farangs ruining their festival

That accounts for 4 Thai people .......

Get real both of you! The farang contingent is limited in scope and location, and the Thais that want to play that way go where they are ... On the moat by my house Thais are playing and having fun and outnumber the foreigners 100:1 and are still very rowdy

Oh come on don't you know when I'm being sarcastic. Sorry no sarcastic font. it's a Thai festival and I get annoyed with falang telling Thai's how to hold their festivals.

All the Thai's in my neighbourhood are so drunk they are now sleeping. What would wake them up though is some of the comments on here. Oh I'm a falang I've been here for 3 years but I know so much more than you about your festival. Sarcastic font needed again.

Edited April 15, 2011 by Throatwobbler

[jdinasia]

Oh come on don't you know when I'm being sarcastic. Sorry no sarcastic font. it's a Thai festival and I get annoyed with falang telling Thai's how to hold their festivals.

All the Thai's in my neighbourhood are so drunk they are now sleeping. What would wake them up though is some of the comments on here. Oh I'm a falang I've been here for 3 years but I know so much more than you about your festival. Sarcastic font needed again.

Somewhat realistic reply noted!

(a good emoticon works for sarcasm!)

I had a beer across the street with the folks that run the rather unlicensed neighborhood bar earlier .. by 7p the party fouls were starting and by 9:30p they had closed (they sometimes stay open until 10p!)

[Throatwobbler]

Oh come on don't you know when I'm being sarcastic. Sorry no sarcastic font. it's a Thai festival and I get annoyed with falang telling Thai's how to hold their festivals.

All the Thai's in my neighbourhood are so drunk they are now sleeping. What would wake them up though is some of the comments on here. Oh I'm a falang I've been here for 3 years but I know so much more than you about your festival. Sarcastic font needed again.

Somewhat realistic reply noted!

(a good emoticon works for sarcasm!)

I had a beer across the street with the folks that run the rather unlicensed neighborhood bar earlier .. by 7p the party fouls were starting and by 9:30p they had closed (they sometimes stay open until 10p!)

Having reread my first post I understand where my sarcasm got lost. You don't get my tone of voice do you. I hear it myself loud and clear. Let's try one of these emoticon things.:jap:

Edited April 15, 2011 by Throatwobbler

[jdinasia]

BTW unless you are from Isaan/Lao it is 'farang'

[Throatwobbler]

BTW unless you are from Isaan/Lao it is 'farang'

I'm from Yorkshire. I think that's more messed up.

Edited April 15, 2011 by Throatwobbler

[jdinasia]

BTW unless you are from Isaan/Lao it is 'farang'

I'm from Yorkshire. I think that's more messed up.

I see you are getting the hang of it (the emoticon thing!)

[Throatwobbler]

BTW unless you are from Isaan/Lao it is 'farang'

I'm from Yorkshire. I think that's more messed up.

I see you are getting the hang of it (the emoticon thing!)

Trying my best. Now I can't see a good emoticon to go with that.

[ollylama]

at least it severely curtails the witch population for a week.

[jdinasia]

at least it severely curtails the witch population for a week.

LOL

"I'm melting!"

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I agree but what I get fed up with is Falangs telling Thai's how Songkran should be. What would you think if you had thai's telling us that Thanksgiving or Guy fawkes should be in the traditional sense. Posters here who are telling the Thai's how to hold their festivals are misguided at best and just rude and obnoxious at worst..

A-expletive-men!

Not much else to add to that, though perhaps I should also mention once more that the notion that it used to be 'a gentle and respectful celebration' in the 'good old days' is a complete fallacy. The pictures have been posted on this forum, old black-and-whites from the 1950's and 1960's that show a huge water fight, same same today. (Well, there were less people in town, but other than that I would have thoroughly enjoyed Songkran in 1960!).

Some Thai people even seem to believe this. Their memories may be one-sided because while they were kids they weren't allowed into town, so all they saw was their granparents house and the temple.

I'm making sure my children get a proper Songkran education so they won't claim in 2055 that it was a gentle and meek celebration in 2011!

So, once more, behold, and smell the moat water:

Edited April 15, 2011 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Ulysses G.]

I'm pretty sure that it was still polite in 1492.

[Atmos]

I've enjoyed it; in the countryside of Chanthaburi it's been fairly relaxed, we went out cycling, wet within 2 minutes and from there on . . . doubled back a few times to give small kids another shot - laugh at how they are often far to slow and I'd hear the splash seconds after we'd passed. On the 40km trip to the beach and back I was sole westerner and at times thought maybe a 'double points' target as got more than my share. Did not see the drinking that was prevalent in Sa Kaeo last year, more of a family occasion and the coastline was over-run with families on their day at the beach.

The day after it was all but over, did the same ride and some half-hearted sprays from kids on roadside.

I see pictures of the big cities/tourist destinations and shudder - never liked crowds, crowds of drunks are worse, and can understand why people flee or hide if they live there.

[midgeley20]

The whole Songkran festival polarises opinion like no other here on TV. Here's my view. Someone here said Songkran should be embraced as other festivities such as western new year, Chinese new year, Christmas and so forth; if you don't totally join in you are clearly a grumpy old farrang who simply doesn't 'get' Thailand and frankly is not wanted here. I agree to a point, where I diverge is this. I can quite easily opt out of New Year drunken excess, miss Chinese street parties if lion dancing doesn't float my boat, even the impact of Christmas in the west can be minimalised (apart from two months of Christmas music endlessly played in every store) and we can celebrate or be left in peace. Unfortunately, what Songkran means for many is six days or more when their daily lives are completely disrupted. Travelling, shopping, cycling, exercising, working in fact most aspects of life are seriously compromised if not ruled out. I'm all for the 'right to party' but I equally defend anyone's right to opt out of it and be left in peace. And the comments of "if you don't like it stay home" aimed at those who want to go about there daily lives without gaffawing idiots dousing them with stinky or icy water or risking serious injury on the roads for SIX or more days I find frankly insulting, akin to going round to neighbours at 3 am whose drunken noisy party is keeping one awake to be told, "what's your problem, we're only having FUN!" If this all makes me a grumpy curmudgeon, so well and good.

Yes you are a grumpy F***er, Yet another Thai Viser who want moves to another culture and gets annoyed when it's not like their own. Do thailand a favour and get out of here. For F'S*** sake it's not that hard to avoid. Just stay inside for a few days. I do that all the time in the winter at home.

Read what I said again Mr Throat. I never implied Songkran is bad because it's not like the traditions of the west. And what's more I stuck up for party goers right to party. I have been to the moat area in previous Songkrans and chucked water with the best of them, and I obviously would avoid Thae pae and the moat area particularly if I'm not wanting to play.But I also put in a plea for moderation and live and let live and it seems to me that it's impossible to opt out for the week of Songkran without holing up in one's appartment, I was expecting some boor to admonish me to do that; it isn't a surprise a fellow Yorkshireman was the one to do it. Sorry to disappoint but I ain't going nowhere, boorish types like you only reinforce why I chose to live here and mostly lead my life amongst Thai people. You pass Christmas, new Year and Songkran in your way and allow others to do the same. A santimonious attitude is not exclusive to purtitans and curmudgeons it seems.

[CMX]

Not much else to add to that, though perhaps I should also mention once more that the notion that it used to be 'a gentle and respectful celebration' in the 'good old days' is a complete fallacy. The pictures have been posted on this forum, old black-and-whites from the 1950's and 1960's that show a huge water fight, same same today. (Well, there were less people in town, but other than that I would have thoroughly enjoyed Songkran in 1960!).

Some Thai people even seem to believe this. Their memories may be one-sided because while they were kids they weren't allowed into town, so all they saw was their granparents house and the temple.

I'm making sure my children get a proper Songkran education so they won't claim in 2055 that it was a gentle and meek celebration in 2011!

So, once more, behold, and smell the moat water:

Winnie, I too am wondering about the tradition of Songkran. Surely it goes far further back than the 20th century; living memory is not the only way to discover religious beginnings. Could it be not be that Siam, an agricultural country before WWII (and after it for a while), washed figures of Buddha and then used the water as a kind of benediction? For many centuries?

[ollylama]

imagine what kind of arguments the Rio de Janeiro expats get into once a year.

i'm no fan of songkran, but it could be worse. we're not the only group of cold blooded imperialists who wish we could have our cake and strictly administer its aspects too.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Well all the Thai's I know say please fly out and don't come back.

all the Thais I know hate drunken farangs ruining their festival

I agree but also all the Thais don't want falang telling them what to do.

nobody is telling them what to do or saying Songkran is 'bad' - I enjoy it largely and have played for years - but I'd prefer (like many Thai and Farang) to get away next year. It IS the drunken farang down at Thaepe area who try to knock people off bikes and use ice etc. who get out of hand - the other 99% are fine!

[CMSteve]

You're really setting yourself up to be annoyed. You're living in CM, which is also the epicenter of Songkran. There is no way you can miss it other that leaving town or hiding in your home.

The correct comparison would be Chinese new year in Bejing, the calendar new year in NYC, carnival in Rio, or mardi gras in N.O.. In any of those epicenters of revelry there is no opting-out. You chose to move here, If you don't like it, stay inside or go somewhere else.

The whole Songkran festival polarises opinion like no other here on TV. Here's my view. Someone here said Songkran should be embraced as other festivities such as western new year, Chinese new year, Christmas and so forth; if you don't totally join in you are clearly a grumpy old farrang who simply doesn't 'get' Thailand and frankly is not wanted here. I agree to a point, where I diverge is this. I can quite easily opt out of New Year drunken excess, miss Chinese street parties if lion dancing doesn't float my boat, even the impact of Christmas in the west can be minimalised (apart from two months of Christmas music endlessly played in every store) and we can celebrate or be left in peace. Unfortunately, what Songkran means for many is six days or more when their daily lives are completely disrupted. Travelling, shopping, cycling, exercising, working in fact most aspects of life are seriously compromised if not ruled out. I'm all for the 'right to party' but I equally defend anyone's right to opt out of it and be left in peace. And the comments of "if you don't like it stay home" aimed at those who want to go about there daily lives without gaffawing idiots dousing them with stinky or icy water or risking serious injury on the roads for SIX or more days I find frankly insulting, akin to going round to neighbours at 3 am whose drunken noisy party is keeping one awake to be told, "what's your problem, we're only having FUN!" If this all makes me a grumpy curmudgeon, so well and good.

Yes you are a grumpy F***er, Yet another Thai Viser who want moves to another culture and gets annoyed when it's not like their own. Do thailand a favour and get out of here. For F'S*** sake it's not that hard to avoid. Just stay inside for a few days. I do that all the time in the winter at home.

Read what I said again Mr Throat. I never implied Songkran is bad because it's not like the traditions of the west. And what's more I stuck up for party goers right to party. I have been to the moat area in previous Songkrans and chucked water with the best of them, and I obviously would avoid Thae pae and the moat area particularly if I'm not wanting to play.But I also put in a plea for moderation and live and let live and it seems to me that it's impossible to opt out for the week of Songkran without holing up in one's appartment, I was expecting some boor to admonish me to do that; it isn't a surprise a fellow Yorkshireman was the one to do it. Sorry to disappoint but I ain't going nowhere, boorish types like you only reinforce why I chose to live here and mostly lead my life amongst Thai people. You pass Christmas, new Year and Songkran in your way and allow others to do the same. A santimonious attitude is not exclusive to purtitans and curmudgeons it seems.

Edited April 16, 2011 by CMSteve