What Would You Do?

[Noel]

Following on from the very long thread about the unrest in the Deep South, what would you do if the Millitants bought the fight to Bangkok,(which they are threatening to do) with say 5 or 6 bombings killing maybee 100-200 people.

Would you tough it out or would you be on your way home?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If we are anything other than stoic in refusing to respond to their inexplicable actions, they would see themselves as 'winning'.

Silent scorn as we carry on regardless with our lives is the only option, in my view.

Apart from the fact that I regard myself as already being 'home', I somehow doubt that anywhere in the Western world would be a safer location than here.

[opothai]

When I refer to "Muslim apologists" (for the Muslim terrorists), I am referring to those who - time and again - and there are presently at least three active threads on this forum that contain the same ridiculous refrains - justify the actions of terrorist bombers because:

1)  The US dropped atomic bombs on Japan

2)  America practiced slavery up until 140 years ago

3)  Timothy McVeigh blew up the Oklahoma City building

4)  All the Jewish citizens of Isarel do not - en masse - swim out into the Mediterranean Sea and drown themselves

5)  The Thais re-elected Thaksin as Thai PM

6)  George Bush couldn't find any WMD in Iraq

7)  America consumes so much oil

8)  Some policemen in the UK shot the Brazilian guy in the Tube.

9)  US defense contractors make too much money in Iraq

10)  Catholic priests have been caught molesting little boys

11)  Misfit American soldiers (now in prison) psychologically abused detained extremists at Abu Ghraib prison

etc. etc. etc. - ad nauseum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is NOT A SINGLE PERSON on this forum who supports terrorism - I invite anyone to state clearly if they do....

The only people who show any support for violence are hate-mongering war-mongers who's posts are just full of one-sided hatred.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

zaz

as you can see the posts about terrorism have stopped being racist and biggoted ie every body has had thier rant [ me included ] now we see more posts with indepyh meaning. To me that means one thing, the situation is now very serious and the overwhelming majority of the general population of europe and people that post on these threads want to see a mass condemnation by muslims over these bombings and outrages, this will not solve the problem but it will hlep the average man in the street to understand what you would be saying, that not all muslims are to be tarred with the same brush. i do not know how your councils could go about organizing this, but it would go an awful long way to allay the fears of the average man, at the moment most believe other muslims condone the bombings and outrages shown through the lack of condrmnation by your leaders.

i am quite sure people like yourself are 100% against these misguided and murderous militants but in europe we have asked the questions of your leaders[ local clerics and the like] but up to now only silence has been returned.

what do you think the general westernised muslims can do to allay our fears.

[zaz]

I fear that there are many like me i.e. Muslims who have strong views against terrorism and also afraid of the general feel towrds us from the non-Muslim world. I am also not an active member in my community, I don't go to the Mosque as often as I should, I don't talk about Islam and current affairs with my Muslim friends/relatives, we just go about our daily normal lives the same as any of you guys.

However, I was thinking to myself yesterday, one of you guys posted on another thread asking how many prominent leaders came from the Muslim community in the past who resorted to and maintained peaceful methods of protest? I strugggled to think of an answer. As I continued to post on the few current forums in defence of myself as a Muslim and also started "The Peace Thread" which interestingly enough isn't really very popular at the moment and just goes to show that a Muslim offers peace and very few of you lot welcome the gesture (something to think about for a lot of you guys that...).

You know it takes one person with a vision to make things happen. Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, Gandhi etc were all Mr Nobodies once upon a time just like I am now. I will now communicate with the people of my community, I will now try to get a feel of what and how they are thinking and correct them if they are misguided, I will now press the community leaders for more outspoken and definitive leadership and demand that our problems be routed out and resolved appropriately. I have a vision, I have a dream and I will from now make an effort to pursue a better world for myself and for us all. Some people will undoubtedly just heckle me off the stage right now, these are the people who show no interest in peace whatsoever. If you want peace and a better world from this point forward then let it be know on "The Peace Thread" - remember my name....zaz

edit: chances are I'll probably get shot by one of my own to shut my mouth...

Edited October 3, 2005 by zaz

[opothai]

I fear that there are many like me i.e. Muslims who have strong views against terrorism and also afraid of the general feel towrds us from the non-Muslim world.  I am also not an active member in my community, I don't go to the Mosque as often as I should, I don't talk about Islam and current affairs with my Muslim friends/relatives, we just go about our daily normal lives the same as any of you guys.

However, I was thinking to myself yesterday, one of you guys posted on another thread asking how many prominent leaders came from the Muslim community in the past who resorted to and maintained peaceful methods of protest?  I strugggled to think of an answer.  As I continued to post on the few current forums in defence of myself as a Muslim and also started "The Peace Thread" which interestingly enough isn't really very popular at the moment and just goes to show that a Muslim offers peace and very few of you lot welcome the gesture (something to think about for a lot of you guys that...).

You know it takes one person with a vision to make things happen.  Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, Gandhi etc were all Mr Nobodies once upon a time just like I am now.  I will now communicate with the people of my community, I will now try to get a feel of what and how they are thinking and correct them if they are misguided, I will now press the community leaders for more outspoken and definitive leadership and demand that our problems be routed out and resolved appropriately.  I have a vision, I have a dream and I will from now make an effort to pursue a better world for myself and for us all.  Some people will undoubtedly just heckle me off the stage right now, these are the people who show no interest in peace whatsoever.  If you want peace and a better world from this point forward then let it be know on "The Peace Thread" - remember my name....zaz

edit: chances are I'll probably get shot by one of my own to shut my mouth...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i did see your piece thread and did make a comment,

what you are saying hear is very comendable zaz, but for your own safety you should not try this alone as you obviously know the dangers, and as you have said you are not a full time active member of your local community so you might not know who is good and who is bad. however your local clerics would know the moderates and would know other like minded leaders who could organise a mass meeting abd it would have to be a lot of people for their own safety.

if thier were only a few more people like yourself to get the ball rolling, i'm sure that the majority would willingly follow and that would be a big step forward.

[meemiathai]

zaz,

please, you do not have to do anything. You are not responsible of any terrorism. So just enjoy life, that's all. And if you can, try to observe other muslims and see how they on average think about the rest of the world. Then tell us unbiasedly, ok?

[The_Moog]

Meemiathai

How about very, very thinly sliced ham. Would that be okay?

[zaz]

Thanks guys, appreciate it. I am a peace loving and even more so a fun loving individual who just wants to enjoy life and get on with life like everyone else. It just gets me down when I see the walls around me crumbling to bits, I want to do so much to help but at the same time fear my own life and feel so helpless...!

Maybe I should stick to an internet based peace movement for my own safety!!!

Edited October 3, 2005 by zaz

[meemiathai]

Meemiathai

How about very, very thinly sliced ham. Would that be okay?

Actually I just don't order them. If they are put in front of me, I'll still eat like a pig. Don't want to waste food.

[AlexLah]

Hi all,

I find this topic one of themore interesting ones with some good comments.

Anyway some questions I have is why would anyone for example offer his/her life for 'the good cause'

How are the 'recruiters' convincing those 'marters'

Are they using history and current events to justify attacks?

Why are some governements 'allowing' those attacks to happen?

E.g. In my homecountry the authorities were very well informed about upcoming attacks and targets (yes I do have some secret intell reports that prove that).

Same for the attacks in London.

You can call it conspiracy theory but I call them discovery's.

There is a lot of info available on the net, you just have to search a bit deeper.

Anyway if there will be an attack in BKK and I think it will happen in time I would just stay here. I am going to Indonesia in two weeks and will be in all the risky places, I do not care. If it is my time to die, so will be it.

KR,

Alex

[craigt3365]

When I refer to "Muslim apologists" (for the Muslim terrorists), I am referring to those who - time and again - and there are presently at least three active threads on this forum that contain the same ridiculous refrains - justify the actions of terrorist bombers because:

1)  The US dropped atomic bombs on Japan

2)  America practiced slavery up until 140 years ago

3)  Timothy McVeigh blew up the Oklahoma City building

4)  All the Jewish citizens of Isarel do not - en masse - swim out into the Mediterranean Sea and drown themselves

5)  The Thais re-elected Thaksin as Thai PM

6)  George Bush couldn't find any WMD in Iraq

7)  America consumes so much oil

8)  Some policemen in the UK shot the Brazilian guy in the Tube.

9)  US defense contractors make too much money in Iraq

10)  Catholic priests have been caught molesting little boys

11)  Misfit American soldiers (now in prison) psychologically abused detained extremists at Abu Ghraib prison

etc. etc. etc. - ad nauseum.

The problem isn't evil, terrorist butchers, and the puppetmasters that orchestrate them - the problem is always someone else.

Personally, I'm no great fan of George Bush.  But - he is a Saint compared to a lot of other nut cases in power - in North Korea, in Zimbabwe, in Iran - for that matter, about 80% of the Muslim nations of the world have nasty autocratic thugs in charge - and I'm talking about the Arab nations.  Indonesia has a good leader, Malaysia a fairly good one - and I even have respect for Musharraf in Pakistan - who is the ultimate case of "caught between a rock and a hard place".

The US military is always being harrassed about "collateral damage" - innocent civilians being caught up in the crossfire.  The US is sensitive about this - and it is unfortunate when innocents suffer.

The terrorists - on the other hand - wage warfare that is virtually nothing other than deliberately causing 100% intentional collatetal damage - they do not even have "military" targets.  It is planned, intentional, evil targeting of innocent civilians.  To me, it is orders of magnitude worse than unintentional collateral damage.

The Muslim terror network seems to believe that they are systematically leading their religion to glorious domination of the earth - and will "conquer" the non-Islamic world.  Me and a lot of other people in that non-Islamic world are trying to communicate to the greater Islamic population of the earth that the outcome of this increasing terror campaign is NOT going to be the greater glory of Islam.  In fact, it is more likely that the rest of the world is going to reach the collective conclusion that your entire religion needs to be exterminated.  Right here in Thailand - if the outrages get extreme enough, and the carnage spreads to Bangkok, there are going to be some Thai and western casualties - but there is going to be absolute doom descending upon the Muslim population of Thailand.  Not from me - or the other subscribers to this board.  60,000,000 Thai buddhists will take the matter into their own hands.  The intellectuals may be talking about national reconciliation.  The Thai working people are talking a different line.  You push them far enough, and they will eliminate the Muslim problem - but it won't be pretty.

Personally, I'd let the three provinces go - they are poorly assimilated, and not worth the anguish.  But - it is not my decision to make.

Indo-Siam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very well put. Great post. I asked my wife what she thinks should be done if bombings start in other parts of Thailand (Northern). Now this comes from a woman who won't kill a mozzie or a hurt anything. She says to kill them all. I was kind of blown away by that. So I agree 100% with you. I am scared to death if this continues. It will be a true jihad then. With both sides losing.

I read some postings from a Bali forum yesterday talking about Jemaah Islamiah. As you know, their goal is to make all of SE asia an Islamic state. And it appears they will do anything to make that happen. And to kick out the non-believers. Sucks, doesn't it. Can't wait until Malaysia and Indonesia wake up and get serious about these people.

[Fast Eddie]

Forced to dig their own graves, the terrorists were all tied to posts, execution style. The US soldiers then brought in pigs and slaughtered them, rubbing their bullets in the blood and fat. Thus, the terrorists were terrorized; they saw that they would be contaminated with hogs' blood. This would mean that they could not enter Heaven, even if they died as terrorist martyrs.

All but one was shot, their bodies dumped into the grave, and the hog guts dumped atop the bodies. The lone survivor was allowed to escape back to the terrorist camp and tell his brethren what happened to the others. This brought a stop to terrorism in the Philippines for the next 50 years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whilst it worked in the past, taking this approach would merely reduce us to their level of barbaric behaviour. I don't think this sort of thing would set the right sort of example to the rest of the world.

[craigt3365]

Found this on the net.

Maybe true...or maybe not. http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pershing.htm

HOW TO STOP ISLAMIC TERRORISTS . . . it worked once in our History . . .

Once in US history an episode of Islamic terrorism was very quickly stopped. It happened in the Philippines about 1911, when Gen. John J. Pershing was in command of the garrison. There had been numerous Islamic terrorist attacks, so "Black Jack" told his boys to catch the perps and teach them a lesson.

Forced to dig their own graves, the terrorists were all tied to posts, execution style. The US soldiers then brought in pigs and slaughtered them, rubbing their bullets in the blood and fat. Thus, the terrorists were terrorized; they saw that they would be contaminated with hogs' blood. This would mean that they could not enter Heaven, even if they died as terrorist martyrs.

All but one was shot, their bodies dumped into the grave, and the hog guts dumped atop the bodies. The lone survivor was allowed to escape back to the terrorist camp and tell his brethren what happened to the others. This brought a stop to terrorism in the Philippines for the next 50 years.

Pointing a gun into the face of Islamic terrorists won't make them flinch. They welcome the chance to die for Allah. Like Gen. Pershing, we must show them that they won't get to Muslim heaven (which they believe has an endless supply of virgins) but instead will die with the hated pigs of the devil.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great post. Agreed that we could not do that again, but it sure makes you wish all this "politically correct" crap would go away...life would be much easier.

[britmaveric]

Hi all,

I find this topic one of themore interesting ones with some good comments.

Anyway some questions I have is why would anyone for example offer his/her life for 'the good cause'

How are the 'recruiters' convincing those 'marters'

Are they using history and current events to justify attacks?

Why are some governements 'allowing' those attacks to happen?

E.g. In my homecountry the authorities were very well informed about upcoming attacks and targets (yes I do have some secret intell reports that prove that).

Same for the attacks in London.

You can call it conspiracy theory but I call them discovery's.

There is a lot of info available on the net, you just have to search a bit deeper.

Anyway if there will be an attack in BKK and I think it will happen in time I would just stay here. I am going to Indonesia in two weeks and will be in all the risky places, I do not care. If it is my time to die, so will be it.

KR,

Alex

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What utter rubbish!!!!

[deus ex machina]

Found this on the net.

Maybe true...or maybe not. http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pershing.htm

HOW TO STOP ISLAMIC TERRORISTS . . . it worked once in our History . . .

Once in US history an episode of Islamic terrorism was very quickly stopped. It happened in the Philippines about 1911, when Gen. John J. Pershing was in command of the garrison. There had been numerous Islamic terrorist attacks, so "Black Jack" told his boys to catch the perps and teach them a lesson.

Forced to dig their own graves, the terrorists were all tied to posts, execution style. The US soldiers then brought in pigs and slaughtered them, rubbing their bullets in the blood and fat. Thus, the terrorists were terrorized; they saw that they would be contaminated with hogs' blood. This would mean that they could not enter Heaven, even if they died as terrorist martyrs.

All but one was shot, their bodies dumped into the grave, and the hog guts dumped atop the bodies. The lone survivor was allowed to escape back to the terrorist camp and tell his brethren what happened to the others. This brought a stop to terrorism in the Philippines for the next 50 years.

Pointing a gun into the face of Islamic terrorists won't make them flinch. They welcome the chance to die for Allah. Like Gen. Pershing, we must show them that they won't get to Muslim heaven (which they believe has an endless supply of virgins) but instead will die with the hated pigs of the devil.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great post. Agreed that we could not do that again, but it sure makes you wish all this "politically correct" crap would go away...life would be much easier.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You truly are the most profoundly moronic poster in this thread.Reason,intelligence,wit and anynotion of decency are senses unutterably alien to you which leads me to believe that in contributing to this forum you may have found your niche.What does intrigue me is who on earth types your posts for you?

Toodle pip, you gormless ######wit

[AlexLah]

Hi all,

I find this topic one of themore interesting ones with some good comments.

Anyway some questions I have is why would anyone for example offer his/her life for 'the good cause'

How are the 'recruiters' convincing those 'marters'

Are they using history and current events to justify attacks?

Why are some governements 'allowing' those attacks to happen?

E.g. In my homecountry the authorities were very well informed about upcoming attacks and targets (yes I do have some secret intell reports that prove that).

Same for the attacks in London.

You can call it conspiracy theory but I call them discovery's.

There is a lot of info available on the net, you just have to search a bit deeper.

Why you reply like that Brit, please xplain

Kind regards,

Alex

Anyway if there will be an attack in BKK and I think it will happen in time I would just stay here. I am going to Indonesia in two weeks and will be in all the risky places, I do not care. If it is my time to die, so will be it.

KR,

Alex

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What utter rubbish!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[AlexLah]

Hi all,

I find this topic one of themore interesting ones with some good comments.

Anyway some questions I have is why would anyone for example offer his/her life for 'the good cause'

How are the 'recruiters' convincing those 'marters'

Are they using history and current events to justify attacks?

Why are some governements 'allowing' those attacks to happen?

E.g. In my homecountry the authorities were very well informed about upcoming attacks and targets (yes I do have some secret intell reports that prove that).

Same for the attacks in London.

You can call it conspiracy theory but I call them discovery's.

There is a lot of info available on the net, you just have to search a bit deeper.

Why you reply like that Brit, please xplain

Kind regards,

Alex

Anyway if there will be an attack in BKK and I think it will happen in time I would just stay here. I am going to Indonesia in two weeks and will be in all the risky places, I do not care. If it is my time to die, so will be it.

KR,

Alex

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What utter rubbish!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Brit why you reply like that?

[tripperj]

I would invade a non-threatening country with plenty of oil, bomb the population to smithereens and start a major civil/holy war of epic porportions.

Then I would chase a poor brazilian immigrant on his way to work, down into the subway and blow his head off.

These are the ways enlightened societies deal with terrorists.

And, oh yeah, I would spout a lot of mindless rhetorical B.S. about never giving in to terrorism and pound my chest a lot. That would do a lot of good. Right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ever think of going into polotic's????

[john b good]

Som Nam Na - honestly dont think they have the bottle to hit BKK. We all know as well as they do what will happen next if BKK becomes a sucessful target.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And what is "that" pray tell (we all know as well as they do what will happen next if BKK becomes a sucessful target)

[TizMe]

Found this on the net.

Maybe true...or maybe not. http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pershing.htm

HOW TO STOP ISLAMIC TERRORISTS . . . it worked once in our History . . .

Once in US history an episode of Islamic terrorism was very quickly stopped. It happened in the Philippines about 1911, when Gen. John J. Pershing was in command of the garrison. There had been numerous Islamic terrorist attacks, so "Black Jack" told his boys to catch the perps and teach them a lesson.

Forced to dig their own graves, the terrorists were all tied to posts, execution style. The US soldiers then brought in pigs and slaughtered them, rubbing their bullets in the blood and fat. Thus, the terrorists were terrorized; they saw that they would be contaminated with hogs' blood. This would mean that they could not enter Heaven, even if they died as terrorist martyrs.

All but one was shot, their bodies dumped into the grave, and the hog guts dumped atop the bodies. The lone survivor was allowed to escape back to the terrorist camp and tell his brethren what happened to the others. This brought a stop to terrorism in the Philippines for the next 50 years.

Pointing a gun into the face of Islamic terrorists won't make them flinch. They welcome the chance to die for Allah. Like Gen. Pershing, we must show them that they won't get to Muslim heaven (which they believe has an endless supply of virgins) but instead will die with the hated pigs of the devil.

Urban legend and Folklore

Comments: I consulted Dr. Frank E. Vandiver, professor of history at Texas A&M University and author of "Black Jack: The Life and Times of John J. Pershing," to find out if there's any truth to the above, and he responded via email that in his opinion the story is apocryphal. "I never found any indication that it was true in extensive research on his Moro experiences," he wrote. "This kind of thing would have run completely against his character."

Similarly, I been unable to find any evidence corroborating the claim that Muslims believe that "eating or touching a pig, its meat, its blood, etc., is to be instantly barred from paradise and doomed to ######." It is true that Islamic dietary restrictions, like those of Judaism, forbid the eating or handling of pork because pigs are considered unclean. But according to Raeed Tayeh of the American Muslim Association in North America, the notion that a Muslim would be denied entrance to heaven for touching a pig is "ridiculous." A statement from the Anti-Defamation League characterized the claim as an "offensive caricature of Muslim beliefs."

[richb2004]

When I refer to "Muslim apologists" (for the Muslim terrorists), I am referring to those who - time and again - and there are presently at least three active threads on this forum that contain the same ridiculous refrains - justify the actions of terrorist bombers because:

1) The US dropped atomic bombs on Japan

2) America practiced slavery up until 140 years ago

3) Timothy McVeigh blew up the Oklahoma City building

4) All the Jewish citizens of Isarel do not - en masse - swim out into the Mediterranean Sea and drown themselves

5) The Thais re-elected Thaksin as Thai PM

6) George Bush couldn't find any WMD in Iraq

7) America consumes so much oil

8) Some policemen in the UK shot the Brazilian guy in the Tube.

9) US defense contractors make too much money in Iraq

10) Catholic priests have been caught molesting little boys

11) Misfit American soldiers (now in prison) psychologically abused detained extremists at Abu Ghraib prison

etc. etc. etc. - ad nauseum.

Two great posts Indo-siam. I especially liked the previous longer post. It was a little long and might have put people of reading it, but it really was worth it.

Keep up the good work.

[ThaiPauly]

Some very thought provoking posts guys.

Personally I fear for all our safety.

Muslims, Christians, Catholics, Bhuddists, et al.

Armagedon could be a short stroll away, I really hope that someone finds some answers to these issues

AND SOON, before its too late.