Shock Over Lese-Majeste Charge Against Thammasat Historian

[metisdead]

One post with an uncited quote has been removed.

[rubl]

Who is the present Thai Government...the red shirt, yellow shirt, no man, the army set up the Democrats as government...so tne ARMY is the government, they and the Democrats are cohorts.

You can't call the army a swine, probably some draconian charges would be on you, but you can called a swine, the army ...

You forgot to mention IMHO, although with your style it would probably be IMO.

Edited April 25, 2011 by rubl

[Buchholz]

"The Democrats ... are behind the laying of charges. "

Opinion or fact? I am no fan of the LM law, but I don't see any evidence of the Democrats being behind it.

FACT!..every since the Democrates announced the coming election...many have been charged with LM...

Please provide the statistical analysis necessary to conclude this is a "FACT!"

How many LM charges in the 2 months preceding the election announcement were there and for the 2 months since?

Please also include references that the Democrats are behind your purported "many" in the past 2 months.

Thanks.

If you have been following the events in Thailand and be able to analyse them with a sound mind you would not be asking such questions unless you were born yesterday....

I have been around for a bit. That's why I don't take your subjective claims as any sort of "FACT!"

Especially when your reply provides no evidence whatsoever to your purported "FACT!"

If you which to shout, "FACT!", it is a good idea to actually have a few of them to back up your shouted assertion.

Speaking of facts, has this professor actually been charged with LM?

He says himself that he hasn't.

.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Buchholz

[Macmundi]

If he's a academic, he would've known better.... he's just an ordinary red terrorist.

[zzaa09]

............... ok.... he can think different......

That's always nice.....within a {mock} democratic setting. Wouldn't want to shun homogenous thought and convention, would we?

[zzaa09]

If he's a academic, he would've known better....

Yes, a good citizen, falling in line.

[Buchholz]

Shock Over Lese-Majeste Charge

my shock is that there is a headline with no charges filed

[Lite Beer]

A post containing veiled comments on The Monarchy has been deleted.

[dunkin2012]

............... ok.... he can think different......

That's always nice.....within a {mock} democratic setting. Wouldn't want to shun homogenous thought and convention, would we?

yep.... this's truly democracy ........... that 's the way it should be.

on there other hand.....

Many things can't be set as a topic of discussion in LOS ............ sadly...

whatta pitty? The people here still don't know a lot of things because the media used as a tool to

convey only what they want the people to see.... but not what the people wanna see...

i have no doubt if they get too much educated they will be harder to control.... people can't be for nothingness forever............though

TIT..

Edited April 26, 2011 by dunkin2012

[Emptyset]

Somsak hasn't been charged according to his statement. He just suspects that he may well be charged soon. Looks like he's pre-empting it, with the intention of bringing more attention to the law. Of course, I'd do the same if I were in a position to make public the fact that I were being harassed. The full statement is up on http://www.prachatai.com/english/. I won't link it directly because I'm not sure exactly what the forum rules are (though of course, there's nothing LM in his statement). There's also a detailed piece up at http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/.

Here is an from his statement:

Over the past two weeks or so, state officials have been increasing tension with their references to the accusation commonly referred to as “lèse majesté.” In an interview dated April 7, the Commander in Chief attacked “a mentally ill academic” who “is intent on overthrowing the institution.” Since April 10, the military has been giving interviews and loudly demonstrating its might on a daily basis. Such gestures, though they do not directly target me, have created a climate of fear in Thai society... A development that directly concerns me is the comment, made in private, by a leading government figure that the military has been putting pressure on that person to specifically persecute me. Additionally, well-placed officials have revealed that preparations are being made to bring charges against me.

As I stated earlier, none of my actions regarding this issue are illegal. However, a climate of fear has been created by the military’s daily display of might. Within this context, there have been unusual occurrences which have directly targeted me.

For instance, earlier this week two men on separate motorbikes were twice spotted surveying the area near my house. When the security guard in my housing estate enquired why they were there, they replied that they had come to “pick up ajarn (professor).” They did not claim to be officials and did not show any official documents. Additionally, an anonymous phone call was made to my house warning me to be careful. The caller claimed that a certain security department has ordered a large number of its officials to closely monitor my movements round the clock, and to be ready to arrest me immediately upon receiving the order.

I maintain that I have always acted publicly and in good faith. If state officials deem it necessary to do so, they are able to call me in for questioning. I am always prepared to clarify myself and answer any questions they may have. The issuing of an arrest warrant is unnecessary, as is the monitoring of my movements or the usage of various measures of questionable legal status to increase the tension. If I am to be prosecuted, I will be prepared to claim my right to legal defense and will apply for bail. I have never considered escaping or evading the accusation as I am an employee of the state with academic teaching and research responsibilities. I believe that my action establishes a correct standard of conduct, both for myself and others, concerning this issue.

Somsak Jeamteerasakul, PhD.

Lecturer,

Department of History

Thammasat University

[Emptyset]

If he's a academic, he would've known better.... he's just an ordinary red terrorist.

How is he a terrorist? Even if you google his name, one of the first links you find is to his criticism of the red tactics during the protest last April/May:

"If having the armed M-i-B is a consequence of drawing the lesson from last April, then it’s the wrong lesson drawn. It is, in my view, extremely counter-productive politically to have them. Had it not been for the armed M-i-B, the Red movement would have been in a strong position politically

now. Instead the gov used of lethal force had not provoked much resistance-protest among people in the middle, largely because of these armed elements the Reds themselves had, while claiming to be ‘peaceful protests’.

I’m not a pacifist, not even a ‘peace activist’. I still maintain my sypathy for the CPT’s armed struggle of the 1960s-1970s. But the used of arms in [urban] struggle, during political protest that claims ‘non-violence’ as its motto is political suicide. It didn’t really ‘protect’ the rally, in fact it only provoked heavier deployment of lethal force by the gov, which the protesters, however armed, would not be able to counter, and which would [result] – and this is my strongest objection – in lost of lives of innocent demonstrators themselves."

http://www.tumblerblog.com/2010/06/somsak-jeamteerasakul-on-red-shirts-and-thaksin/

[Emptyset]

An underlying issue that tends to be overlooked amongst a number of pundits refers to history faculties within the esteemed universities.....what can they teach? How far can they go? In particular, the numerous well-known historians that have a reputation for progressive values and walking that straight-razor as such applies to Siam/Thailand studies and related social sciences. Most have adapted cleverly to play the game.....some have had to flee in exile.

Good question. I had a look at the reading list for Pitch Pongsuwat's modern Thai politics course (called something like that anyway) at Chula. The list includes articles by Somsak Jeamteerasakul, Giles Ungpakorn, Suthichai Yimprasert, Kasien Tejapira, Thongchai Winichakul... in fact most of the list, specifically the part focusing on the Thammasat Massacre and the rise of the CPT, consists entirely of pieces written by academics like the aforementioned who most Thais would consider 'radical'. But most Thais don't read them, of course, and many would perhaps be shocked by articles like these, they certainly push the boundaries whilst remaining within the law. Of course, academic criticism and historical remarks are supposed to be within the law anyway, but then Giles & Jakrapob Penkair were charged for remarks made in a pretty much academic context (and now Somsak may be charged too I suppose)... so I suppose it's all open to interpretation. What constitutes 'academic' and what constitutes defamation, etc.

Most Thais would likely be shocked even by book like Pasuk and Baker's "A History of Thailand", I was reading some bits to a well-educated Thai friend recently and he had no idea about things that one would assume should be taught to every Thai student at school if they're to get an accurate picture of their own history. This is just a guess, but most Thais outside academia reading "A History of Thailand" would probably be at least a little shocked... for one reason, or another. Quite amusing in a way since it's probably one of the first books foreigners buy if they're interested in Thai history or politics. The sad truth is anyone that's read just this book alone likely knows more than 80% of Thais do about Thai history. Perhaps I'm wrong, but the only Thais I know that really know the truth about their own history is those that have gone out of their way to seek information from various heterodox sources, or studied it in a reputable academic institution.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Emptyset

[metisdead]

Another post with veiled speculation on The Monarchy has been removed.

[Buchholz]

Somsak hasn't been charged according to his statement.

Have we reached "the future" now?

the movie,

Minority Report

In the future, criminals are caught before the crimes they commit

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0181689/

or more precisely in this case,

People are said to be charged with crimes before they are charged with crimes.

[animatic]

Just because one is 'an academic', doesn't mean they are not against the monarchy or are saying things that are illegal, though said in a more intelligent manner than street rants and slogans.

For example and expert in 'Socialist Studies' may also likely believe in a 'down with all monarchies' stance, in favor of a communist or socialist governmental framework, and espouse same in erudite language. But no matter how flowery the prose the core idea may well be illegal in certain societies.

So, is tenure on a University faculty a pass to advocate illegal things?

This is not the same as making comparisons beween various systems in the form of analysis. If it is advocating even in the most opaque terms and illegal change then it is illegal, no matter what your 'job description' is,

Edited April 26, 2011 by animatic

[Thai at Heart]

Just because one is 'an academic', doesn't mean they are not against the monarchy or are saying things that are illegal, though said in a more intelligent manner than street rants and slogans.

For example and expert in 'Socialist Studies' may also likely believe in a 'down with all monarchies' stance, in favor of a communist or socialist governmental framework, and espouse same in erudite language. But no matter how flowery the prose the core idea may well be illegal in certain societies.

So, is tenure on a University faculty a pass to advocate illegal things?

This is not the same as making comparisons beween various systems in the form of analysis. If it is advocating even in the most opaque terms and illegal change then it is illegal, no matter what your 'job description' is,

I know of one foreign lecturer in a Uni who was asked to leave a university after being accused of lese majeste. He included a speech from someone into his course that was deemed inappropriate, despite the words of the speech being openly available in texts.

Rather stupidly, he was re-employed a couple of years ago by the same university only to be asked to move on again last year for a similar accusation.

I wonder if even suggesting changing the law might leave one open to accusations of lese majeste. There was a wonderful article in the notthenation a few years ago, satirizing the fact that accusing someone of lese majeste could leave one open to accusations of lese majeste. It is the unsolvable conundrum that no one wants to solve.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Thai at Heart

[whybother]

...

I wonder if even suggesting changing the law might leave one open to accusations of lese majeste. There was a wonderful article in the notthenation a few years ago, satirizing the fact that accusing someone of lese majeste could leave one open to accusations of lese majeste. It is the unsolvable conundrum that no one wants to solve.

That particular article was linked on a similar TV thread a week or so ago. It cut too close to the bone for some people in the current environment and didn't last long.

[animatic]

Just because one is 'an academic', doesn't mean they are not against the monarchy or are saying things that are illegal, though said in a more intelligent manner than street rants and slogans.

For example and expert in 'Socialist Studies' may also likely believe in a 'down with all monarchies' stance, in favor of a communist or socialist governmental framework, and espouse same in erudite language. But no matter how flowery the prose the core idea may well be illegal in certain societies.

So, is tenure on a University faculty a pass to advocate illegal things?

This is not the same as making comparisons beween various systems in the form of analysis. If it is advocating even in the most opaque terms and illegal change then it is illegal, no matter what your 'job description' is,

I know of one foreign lecturer in a Uni who was asked to leave a university after being accused of lese majeste. He included a speech from someone into his course that was deemed inappropriate, despite the words of the speech being openly available in texts.

Rather stupidly, he was re-employed a couple of years ago by the same university only to be asked to move on again last year for a similar accusation.

I wonder if even suggesting changing the law might leave one open to accusations of lese majeste. There was a wonderful article in the notthenation a few years ago, satirizing the fact that accusing someone of lese majeste could leave one open to accusations of lese majeste. It is the unsolvable conundrum that no one wants to solve.

Yes certainly it is a riddle inside a conundrum.

[Emptyset]

I note this case was mentioned in the New York Times today, a piece written by Thomas Fuller. Not sure it can be linked here so I won't. There was also an interesting profile of him in The Nation: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/This-voice-from-another-side-30154326.html and a report of him going to hear the charges in New Mandala: http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2011/05/12/support-for-somsak-at-nang-lerng/

Seems to get mentioned a lot lately actually, he was also quoted in this Asia Times piece: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/ME12Ae01.html

[jesse89]

Somsak has now written a second open letter to the princess. I don't think a direct link to the letter would be allowed on here due to the sensitive subject matter, but an English translation of the letter is available somewhere on New Mandala. It proves to be quite a compelling read.

Edited May 23, 2011 by jesse89

[lrena]

Wow, I just read up on this and what this lese-majeste charge comes from. What a joke. If that's all he wrote, my dog could get charged with lese-majeste for farting too loud after eating dinner.

[kennkate]

Maybe but only if it was a right Royal Fart

Wow, I just read up on this and what this lese-majeste charge comes from. What a joke. If that's all he wrote, my dog could get charged with lese-majeste for farting too loud after eating dinner.

[dunkin2012]

Wow, I just read up on this and what this lese-majeste charge comes from. What a joke. If that's all he wrote, my dog could get charged with lese-majeste for farting too loud after eating dinner.

yep!.. unfair...........

remove it.

[Buchholz]

Somsak Jiamteerasakul (center) with Red Shirt Leaders Jatuporn and Thida

Somsak Jiamteerasakul at Red Shirt rally

Somsak Jiamteerasakul (right) with Red Shirt Surachai Sae-dan (who was previously arrested for LM)

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=444646&view=findpost&p=4235150

.

Both Somsak, as well as Surachai, had their bail requests denied yesterday after PTP MP's requested it using their parliamentary status as collateral.

[whybother]

Both Somsak, as well as Surachai, had their bail requests denied yesterday after PTP MP's requested it using their parliamentary status as collateral.

It's interesting how they can use their parliamentary status as collateral. Would that mean that if the MP is dumped, either through being banned or through election, that the person on bail would need to go back to jail?

[nicknostitz]

Both Somsak, as well as Surachai, had their bail requests denied yesterday after PTP MP's requested it using their parliamentary status as collateral.

This is quite wrong information.

Thammasat historian Prof. Somsak Jeamteerasakul has not been arrested as his case is still in the early stages of investigation (you can see that he has posted in the comment section in New Mandala during the last couple of days in a topic regarding the latest Thai Studies conference organized by Mahidol University - hardly possible from prison).

Somyos Prueksakasemsuk, editor of 'Red Power' and leader of the independent 24th of June Group is the one whose bail request has been refused.

[Buchholz]

Both Somsak, as well as Surachai, had their bail requests denied yesterday after PTP MP's requested it using their parliamentary status as collateral.

This is quite wrong information.

Thammasat historian Prof. Somsak Jeamteerasakul has not been arrested as his case is still in the early stages of investigation (you can see that he has posted in the comment section in New Mandala during the last couple of days in a topic regarding the latest Thai Studies conference organized by Mahidol University - hardly possible from prison).

Somyos Prueksakasemsuk, editor of 'Red Power' and leader of the independent 24th of June Group is the one whose bail request has been refused.

Correct. I got caught with the Red Shirt "S's" charged with lese majeste and mixed them.

It was Somyos and Surachai who had their bail refused, not Somsak and Surachai, despite the PTP MP's offering to use their MP status as a surety.

.

Edited August 20, 2011 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

Somsak Jiamteerasakul (right) with Red Shirt Surachai Sae-dan (who was previously arrested for LM)

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=444646&view=findpost&p=4235150

Both Somsak, as well as Surachai, had their bail requests denied yesterday after PTP MP's requested it using their parliamentary status as collateral.

To reiterate photographically, it was Red Shirt Surachai (above left) and Red Shirt Somyos (below with his publication Red News) who were denied bail, not Somsak (above right).

.

[Cnxforever]

yes as a historian life is difficult in Thailand - as one is only allowed to teach and preach the "official" approved /bent version of "history".

"Striking against red-shirt leaders is one thing but striking against an academic is another," - This sentence says everything what is wrong with these laws - they are used for political gain only - so what that means is - the LM laws can be used to get rid of political oponents - but when it comes to academics they should not be used ??

Certain Thai officials seem to be as blind as bats - far, far away from todays reality - "the emperor is naked" - and while most can see it already - some pretend to remain blind - only some dare to point it out.

Edited August 20, 2011 by Cnxforever

[nicknostitz]

yes as a historian life is difficult in Thailand - as one is only allowed to teach and preach the "official" approved /bent version of "history".

"Striking against red-shirt leaders is one thing but striking against an academic is another," - This sentence says everything what is wrong with these laws - they are used for political gain only - so what that means is - the LM laws can be used to get rid of political oponents - but when it comes to academics they should not be used ??

Certain Thai officials seem to be as blind as bats - far, far away from todays reality - "the emperor is naked" - and while most can see it already - some pretend to remain blind - only some dare to point it out.

Even more disturbing is that the case against Ajarn Somsak has been filed by the Army, and against the policies set by then Prime Minister Abhisit regarding the lese majeste issue, especially regarding academic commentary. This is not the first such case - Abhisit has on several occasions spoken out in public against the charges filed against Prachatai editor Chiranuch Premchaiporn.

When cases are filed then all that are involved in the investigations are under enormous pressure as they may be accused of the same when someone may deem that they lapsed in their duty to protect the monarchy. Anybody can file such a lese majeste case against anybody, and again, every such case filed has to be investigated. No wonder that the conviction rate is higher than 90% in lese majeste cases.

Abhisit has introduced a panel whose job it was to filter out political inspired cases from what ma be "real" infractions against this law. This panel though has completely failed, due to the pressures involved in this most sensitive issue.

There are presently hundreds of known cases in the court system. The exact number, especially cases still under investigation, is not known. We have seen now a small number of accused in lese majeste cases having escaped Thailand, and even been granted official refugee status by the UN in third countries. We can only expect this number to rise in the future, putting even more pressure on Thailand. This is an issue that will not go away, and has the potential to really get out of hand, until the Thai state can find a solution that is both acceptable to Thai society and to Thailand's position in the global community.

The present situation is clearly not satisfying, a point both the Red side, and moderates of their opponents agree upon. The problem though is that even moderate proposals for a reform of the 112 law are attacked by the ultra-conservatives as lese majeste, making it almost impossible to have any discussion over this topic, and has resulted in a deadlock.