She Took Everything..

[IanForbes]

Ehhh...Ian, that's the SECOND time you've changed your mind and claim this is what you initially wrote. First time you claimed ALL humans want love - I disagreed. You then claimed that what you really said was MOST people want love (that's not what you wrote at all). Now you've apparently changed your mind AGAIN and claim that all humans want love FROM BIRTH, and that some of them get wrecked on the way of growing up.

Isn't that exactly what I said Ian, haven't I claimed a number of times that there are people out there who doesn't want love?? But now you're claiming that I'm wrong due to the process of at which that usually happens? Jeezuz, why is it so hard for some people to admit being wrong!!??? Is it a disease or something?

With the above in mind (and in particular the tragic fact that you have a childish behaviour of altering other members posts (I can prove this one with fact if you want)) I wonder if the real problem here is not that some people are damaged during the course of growing up - but the sad reality that some people doesn't grow up at all...

So, the conclusion here is that you have finally decided to agree that I was right, that not everybody wants love. Thanks for pointing that out, Ian.

Okay, lets just agree that we disagree on the fine print. You are being picky about what I wrote. I will admit to being wrong when I am wrong. But, I wasn't wrong with what I wrote. And, if you continue acting like a spelling nazi then I'll let you have your way and not respond at all. I value your imput in most of the debates here... just as I value the well thought out imput by others with different perspectives than my own.

I'll continue to say that ALL people want love at some point in their life. However, I will agree with you that when people get hardened by many bad experiences then they will put their want for love away for the time being and concentrate on more important issues...such as earning enough money for themselves and family. That doesn't mean they don't want love. It just means that they will forego love for more important issues. I've met many bar girls like that and the longer they are in the business the further away they bury their want for love. Love is just a side issue if you are trying to survive in a harsh world. That doesn't mean you don't want it.

I'm quite happy on my own and I don't want a permanent relationship anymore, but that doesn't mean I don't miss the warmth of a woman's companionship. I just realize I would have to give up my freedom to get it, and that is not worth it to me.

[IanForbes]

She didn't take everything, your still alive and she gave you exactly what you asked for. Your challange is to figure what it was that you were asking for. Sure you made some mistakes, we have all made similar mistakes to varying degrees. My recomendation is to just walk away and use this experence to examine the reasons that brought you to this point.

Being here and experencing this untamed wonderland with all it's ups and downs is a test. It involves risk and some underestimate the danger. My observation is that most navagate it pretty well and come through with what they were seeking unscathed.

I've been a life long sailor and have observed many people who retired and bought a boat after seeing a pretty picture and with little preperation. They spent a fortune making it perfect then left to sail off into the wild blue. Over half didn't get very far before being overwhelmed by the challange. Some wrecked and died, others just paid a huge financial cost. I've seen this same thing with people and motorhomes and building the dream house.

Risk taking is a young mans. For many older guys their money would be better spent hiring a good therapist who has experence helping men analyze what they want to learn and how to learn it without a wreck.

Good post Schooner. I've seen the very same things many times over. There is a HUGE difference between visiting some lovely place on a holiday and actually trying to live there on a full time basis. That goes for many marriages as well. You think you've met the woman of your dreams and jump into a marriage before you actually know what the consequences are.

[Livinginexile]

I have a friend doing the same thing against the advice of his friends...... Met the girl in a bar, married, the house, the money, everything in her name and suddenly....they are not getting along so well.....

Going to be broke in Thailand in his senior years.

Yes, happens all too often.

I know a guy who lost everything to his Thai wife a few years back. He was seriously broke and had to go back home to recover.

You would think he learned his lesson but he is now back in LoS, just married and repeating the mistakes all over again. His current wife is worst than the first one and he just can't see it!

I often wonder if it is a sickness with these guys. Maybe they just can't help themselves.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Livinginexile

[Forethat]

Ehhh...Ian, that's the SECOND time you've changed your mind and claim this is what you initially wrote. First time you claimed ALL humans want love - I disagreed. You then claimed that what you really said was MOST people want love (that's not what you wrote at all). Now you've apparently changed your mind AGAIN and claim that all humans want love FROM BIRTH, and that some of them get wrecked on the way of growing up.

Isn't that exactly what I said Ian, haven't I claimed a number of times that there are people out there who doesn't want love?? But now you're claiming that I'm wrong due to the process of at which that usually happens? Jeezuz, why is it so hard for some people to admit being wrong!!??? Is it a disease or something?

With the above in mind (and in particular the tragic fact that you have a childish behaviour of altering other members posts (I can prove this one with fact if you want)) I wonder if the real problem here is not that some people are damaged during the course of growing up - but the sad reality that some people doesn't grow up at all...

So, the conclusion here is that you have finally decided to agree that I was right, that not everybody wants love. Thanks for pointing that out, Ian.

Okay, lets just agree that we disagree on the fine print. You are being picky about what I wrote. I will admit to being wrong when I am wrong. But, I wasn't wrong with what I wrote. And, if you continue acting like a spelling nazi then I'll let you have your way and not respond at all. I value your imput in most of the debates here... just as I value the well thought out imput by others with different perspectives than my own.

We disagree. Agreed.

There is one thing I'd like to ad, simply because I think it's the common denominator is a discussion like this:

I believe that every living thing on this earth has TWO basic guiding principles:

a ) We all seek happiness

b ) We all try to avoid suffering

For those of you who read, this is a principle explained in a book by the current Dalai Lama. The interesting thing is that by applying this principle to people who want love, sex, drugs, money or whatever it might be - we can get an understanding of why people are different. In the case of Thai women married to western men, I think there simply is clash in selection of the right route to happiness – they want the money and he wants affection - it is just two different ways of trying to gain happiness. However, gaining happiness by material ownership or bodily and emotional pleasures tends to be a one way route since more and more stimulus is required to make one feel happy. If we learn to think this way we can find an explanation to why some people aren't interested in love or affection - they're in it for money, booze, or why not sex.

You appear to have found your route, Ian, with fishing, hunting combined with a very sociable life where human interaction and friendlyness is key. I admire you, Ian, I perceive you as a loveable, extrovert, passionate and loving man one a mission to enjoy life and bring anyone along as long as they share the same passion.

But as I said, everybody is different, and you might be more different than most of us. By the way, that was a compliment.

[Nawtier]

Life is a gamble

[ChristopherWilliamsBKK]

To the OP

Stuff as many things as you can in your pockets (preferably gold)

Say you have to go buy a paper.

Never turn round - never look back.

Next time - rent only

[JohnnyFeelIt]

I think the OP understands the mistakes very clearly and is now asking for advice rather than finger wagging and lectures, so try keeping replies focused on advice please.

[JohnnyFeelIt]

And let's not forget the farang who do illegal, immoral, stupid things, the farang who hit their wives, the farang who father children then ignore them / never support them fainancially or emotionally, the farang who get married then have affairs / many affairs outside of the marriage, etc.

Why live in Thailand if your not going to try and adopt the local culture?!?

[maprao]

And let's not forget the farang who do illegal, immoral, stupid things, the farang who hit their wives, the farang who father children then ignore them / never support them fainancially or emotionally, the farang who get married then have affairs / many affairs outside of the marriage, etc.

Why live in Thailand if your not going to try and adopt the local culture?!?

:cheesy: love it

[Latindancer]

Indeed !

Edited April 25, 2011 by Latindancer

[glomp]

If the lass lacks visa for the uk, file there for abandonment and wait the required time?

[Loz]

have you considered the option of "older" thai ladies?

Imagine a Thai lady who grew up with similar tradtional values to you and yours...

Imagine she's suffered through a marriage compromised by a disrespectful husband who pleased himself rather than his wife. You might seem like a pretty nice chap compared to him and she'd have the life experience to know what emotional needs she valued herself and was willing to accomodate in another.

And the icing on the cake. Imagine if she could talk to you!

Well, these are just some of the ways I think the situation posted here could be avoided. But then, you'd have to be able to avoid coming here and being c**t-struck by the first dusky maiden that sat on your lap and ran her fingers through your toupe.

But I'm biased. I've always liked older women.

[sarahsbloke]

I was taught, by a judge in the UK, that when you have a live-in relationship with a woman.

Renting a house, or owning a house with a huge mortgage in joint names (or her name alone), makes the woman much less likely to want to take it away from you.

The lesson was very expensive, but in the end, worthwhile and it works anywhere in the world.

Edited April 25, 2011 by sarahsbloke

[IanForbes]

have you considered the option of "older" thai ladies?

Imagine a Thai lady who grew up with similar tradtional values to you and yours...

Imagine she's suffered through a marriage compromised by a disrespectful husband who pleased himself rather than his wife. You might seem like a pretty nice chap compared to him and she'd have the life experience to know what emotional needs she valued herself and was willing to accomodate in another.

And the icing on the cake. Imagine if she could talk to you!

Well, these are just some of the ways I think the situation posted here could be avoided. But then, you'd have to be able to avoid coming here and being c**t-struck by the first dusky maiden that sat on your lap and ran her fingers through your toupe.

But I'm biased. I've always liked older women.

It depends on what you call older ladies, Loz. I've met many lovely, attractive Thai women in their late thirties and early fourties who speak excellent English, but because I don't want a long term relationship I've let them know I wasn't interested.

[473geo]

have you considered the option of "older" thai ladies?

Imagine a Thai lady who grew up with similar tradtional values to you and yours...

Imagine she's suffered through a marriage compromised by a disrespectful husband who pleased himself rather than his wife. You might seem like a pretty nice chap compared to him and she'd have the life experience to know what emotional needs she valued herself and was willing to accomodate in another.

And the icing on the cake. Imagine if she could talk to you!

Well, these are just some of the ways I think the situation posted here could be avoided. But then, you'd have to be able to avoid coming here and being c**t-struck by the first dusky maiden that sat on your lap and ran her fingers through your toupe.

But I'm biased. I've always liked older women.

It depends on what you call older ladies, Loz. I've met many lovely, attractive Thai women in their late thirties and early fourties who speak excellent English, but because I don't want a long term relationship I've let them know I wasn't interested.

You old heart breaker Ian.......

[Wavefloater]

I remember Ian wrote a couple of threads ago that "All humans want love". I disagreed, my opinion is that there is a part of the gene pool who frankly doesn't care about love.

But I have no problems understanding why some men end up in situations like the one you and OP describe, especially when you combine this with exactly what I tried to put through to Ian (I suspect it didn't take, based on the embarrassing fact that he falsified my post with "yada, yada, yada") - there are people out there who doesn't give a flying fig about love or emotions, they're simple in it for the money.

Trouble is, most emotional love-seekers fail to understand that others think and operate differently (which could be why Ian believes young girls spends time with him because they enjoy his company rather than because they get paid), hence the many disasters - they desperately WANT the woman to be emotionally connected at the same level as themselves, and in many cases they're not.

I would get professional (legal) help. Mind you, this will generate additional costs. There are times when one simply have to accept a loss, and this could be such case. I have heard so many stories like this, not in a single case has there been a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

You've made a whole lot of false assumptions.

Whether you like to believe it or not, all humans want love and companionship from birth. If they don't get it then they grow up with problems. It is the same with dogs. A dog that doesn't get love will have problems. Dogs are always seeking to belong to a pack or make friends with a human.. The ones that don't get it turn nasty.

You are mixing up love and companionship with sex. Everyone is different. Some men want a mommy to look after them. Others, like myself, only want a bit of companionship and sex. We no longer need a long term relationship. But, we will certainly narrow our lady friends down to those that enjoy our company also. There is any number of pure sexual relationships. Whether the woman is only in it for the money does not mean the woman doesn't enjoy the sex as well.

You can certainly build a mountain of false assumptions on very few facts. What you basically have written is that young people can not enjoy the company of older people. That is a flat out falsehood. If it was true then it would have to include someone's children and grand children as well. I know many grand children who love their grampa and nanna. I know many nurse attendents who look after elderly people, and they have a mutual love for each other... just not in a sexual way.

But, that is drifing off the OP's topic.

Going blindly into a long term relationship with a young Thai woman, and with no understanding about the culture, is a bit foolish. It is compounded when there is a wide gap in ages. That doesn't mean it won't work, but it certainly throws up some road blocks. Then, add into the mix a total lack of future planning when it comes to finances and property and you have a recipe for a disaster.

However, if a man in love with a pretty lady uses a little brain power and uses a little caution then he might have a wonderful future with only minimal risks. Don't throw all your eggs in one basket and take your lumps as they arrive. If the whole thing collapses then just accept the loss and remember the good times. It was worth the ride.

I married a woman in Canada who I was madly in love with. We were together for 7 years of which 5 were great. But her son got into drugs and screwed our marriage. It cost me a lot emotionally and financially, but in the end she actually did me a favour by leaving. If were to compare that marriage to ones I see in Thailand that fail I think the financial losses would be similar.

Whether people are taking about love or companionship, I think the main point that Forethat was making is valid. Naive expats believe that they can get their Thai significant other to have emotions at the same or similar level, but in reality, it just doesn't happen very often in the LOS.

I have to say that I'm really finding it very difficult to have an sympathy for people who get financially (and emotionally) screwed here in Thailand. It happens sooooo often here that you'd think people would approach commitment with more caution.

[IanForbes]

There is one thing I'd like to ad, simply because I think it's the common denominator is a discussion like this:

I believe that every living thing on this earth has TWO basic guiding principles:

a ) We all seek happiness

b ) We all try to avoid suffering

For those of you who read, this is a principle explained in a book by the current Dalai Lama. The interesting thing is that by applying this principle to people who want love, sex, drugs, money or whatever it might be - we can get an understanding of why people are different. In the case of Thai women married to western men, I think there simply is clash in selection of the right route to happiness – they want the money and he wants affection - it is just two different ways of trying to gain happiness. However, gaining happiness by material ownership or bodily and emotional pleasures tends to be a one way route since more and more stimulus is required to make one feel happy. If we learn to think this way we can find an explanation to why some people aren't interested in love or affection - they're in it for money, booze, or why not sex.

You appear to have found your route, Ian, with fishing, hunting combined with a very sociable life where human interaction and friendlyness is key. I admire you, Ian, I perceive you as a loveable, extrovert, passionate and loving man one a mission to enjoy life and bring anyone along as long as they share the same passion.

But as I said, everybody is different, and you might be more different than most of us. By the way, that was a compliment.

I think if we sat on the terrace talking over a cold beer we might agree on more than a few things. You use the word happiness and I use the word love. There are similarities.

If I come across as a little too verbose at times it's because I love life so much and almost religiously want to share it with others. I love Thailand with all its warts and problems, just as I love Canada for what it has to offer. Some of the very problems we complain about in Thailand are part of what I love about the country. I enjoy living life on the rough side where I have to take a few risks. I shun the molly-coddlying that North America has turned into.

I'm fortunate to have enough time and money to enjoy the life that I do. And because I enjoy simple pleasures it is not too expensive to have what pleases me the most.

[meatboy]

in thailand everything is a gamble you pay your money and take a chance. good luck

[Forethat]

I think if we sat on the terrace talking over a cold beer we might agree on more than a few things.

Ian, you've no idea...

[fatpig]

in thailand everything is a gamble you pay your money and take a chance.

That's very presumptuous and based on your own stereotype, you seem very bitter.

[chuang]

I think the OP understands the mistakes very clearly and is now asking for advice rather than finger wagging and lectures, so try keeping replies focused on advice please.

He needs advice not invective....

[IanForbes]

I am unsure it the OP is relating to an actual case that happened to him or it's a generic situation that has happened to many innocent farangs who have fallen for a conniving Thai woman. If all the properties are listed ONLY in the woman's name then I don't think there's anything the man can do. However, if the property is in joint ownership then he should be able to recover half of the cost of the buildings on the property... but not the property itself. But, it would take the hiring of a good lawyer. Sometimes the lawyers fees are more than what can be received in a settlement.

Nobody here but the OP knows all the facts. so anything we might advise is purely conjecture.

[Schooner]

Ian got it.

Thai or farang there's no way I would sign over any assets to someone that I wasn't pretty sure of. I've been married 5 years, everything except the car and motorbike (bought this year) is in my name and my bank accounts are not accessable to my wife. All humans are fallible, try putting some cash in front of anyone and see what happens. I've seen perfectly good people turn into a$$holes over money and that is true everywhere. There is no need for me to give her access to my assets. I have a will, she will be well off if I kick.

I have a college friend who recently came here and is getting used six ways of Sunday by women he wouldn't give the time of day to back home. He thinks this stuff is real and won't listen to reason. This is a guy I used to do some pretty dangerous sports with when we were young and he used to drive me crazy with his attention to detail and preperation. He is way over his head. He thinks he can save these girls and they are using his desire to manipulate him. Any desire to save someone else is based upon a desire to save ourself. Fix yourself and the rest is easy.

[gregb]

If all the properties are listed ONLY in the woman's name then I don't think there's anything the man can do.

The NAME on the property has nothing to do with it. When you are married, you and your wife are considered one entity under the eyes of the law. The question is the property considered sin suan tua of the wife, sin suan tua of the husband, or sin somros. This is a completely different section of the law than the land office requirements.

The disposition of the property will be decided based on the source of the funds used to purchase the property. If you can produce adequate evidence to a Thai court that the source of the funds for purchase of the property in question was not actually sin suan tua of the wife, then that property becomes part of the marital estate, and the court can compel that it be sold and the money distributed to the appropriate parties. There was a high profile cases I have read about a year or two back where the family court agreed that the property, even though it was listed in the wife's name, was actually sin suan tua of the husband, and she got none of it.

When a Thai married to a foreigner purchases land, the foreigner is required to sign a paper swearing that the funds were sin suan tua of the wife. If they were not in actuality, then the foreigner commits fraud when he signs this paper. However, fraud is a criminal action, prosecuted in an entirely different court, and the wife has no standing to bring this case. The family court will not act on this, although it may influence their decisions in other areas where there is room for discretion.

[highchol]

I was wondering do the British embassy offer any help to British expats who have been taken for everything they have got and physically cannot afford to renew their visa and/or leave the country? Do they offer repatriation in such circumstances?

:lol: :lol:

[frankyj]

Thanks for the advice guys - knew I was gonna get a bit of "you should have known better" too so no worries! Part and parcel of posting on an internet forum. None the less some good feedback.

The person in mention is my dad and not me. In case anyone wants to know the plan of action it is as follows: Money has been sent to see him through til August and then I will go out to Thailand and meet him in BKK - I like the idea from ChristopherWilliamsBKK "Stuff as many things as you can in your pockets (preferably gold), Say you have to go buy a paper. Never turn round - never look back."

We'll stay in Bangkok for a couple of weeks and set him up for going back to the UK to stay with some family there. Who knows potentially move back to Thailand in a few years a little wiser!

I do have some other questions though relating to this post for my Dad:

When he returns to the UK he will have no money, can he sign on straight away? Technically he is going back to no fixed abode either and will probably have to stay with his mother to begin with. Here's the problem though, he hasn't lived in the UK for over 30 years and has been working abroad since he got married (first time) so I don't know what that makes him eligible for? He is a British citizen with a British passport. Does anyone know how I would go about inquiring about this?

He also suffers from epilepsy and is in extremely poor health generally (smokes and drinks a lot and very malnutrutioned), all his teeth are pretty much gone too.. Can he just walk into a hospital and basically say "help me" and they will?

Once again any help would be appreciated - I myself have never really lived in the UK so I am not aware of the above..

Thanks again.

[Nawtier]

Dad moves back in with Grandma....thats one i have never heard of before.

[zzaa09]

Dad moves back in with Grandma....thats one i have never heard of before.

Grandma takes in everyone. No questions asked.

[ratcatcher]

Thanks for the advice guys - knew I was gonna get a bit of "you should have known better" too so no worries! Part and parcel of posting on an internet forum. None the less some good feedback.

The person in mention is my dad and not me. In case anyone wants to know the plan of action it is as follows: Money has been sent to see him through til August and then I will go out to Thailand and meet him in BKK - I like the idea from ChristopherWilliamsBKK "Stuff as many things as you can in your pockets (preferably gold), Say you have to go buy a paper. Never turn round - never look back."

We'll stay in Bangkok for a couple of weeks and set him up for going back to the UK to stay with some family there. Who knows potentially move back to Thailand in a few years a little wiser!

I do have some other questions though relating to this post for my Dad:

When he returns to the UK he will have no money, can he sign on straight away? Technically he is going back to no fixed abode either and will probably have to stay with his mother to begin with. Here's the problem though, he hasn't lived in the UK for over 30 years and has been working abroad since he got married (first time) so I don't know what that makes him eligible for? He is a British citizen with a British passport. Does anyone know how I would go about inquiring about this?

He also suffers from epilepsy and is in extremely poor health generally (smokes and drinks a lot and very malnutrutioned), all his teeth are pretty much gone too.. Can he just walk into a hospital and basically say "help me" and they will?

Once again any help would be appreciated - I myself have never really lived in the UK so I am not aware of the above..

Thanks again.

My sympathies to you and your dad. I think I understand why they separated.

My advice: Keep him in England, safely for the rest of his life.The dream is over. Time to wake up.

My suggestion: Use the D9 farewell process with regard to his ex wife. This involves the rental of a D9 driven by a Thai who has received several thousand baht in pay (preferably not from that village.

Several bottles of Johnnie black for tyhe local Mr Plod. Only destroy half the house. Flatten your dad's half. be sure to leave the wife's half livable. A Finning end to a sad tale. It's been done before.

[StreetCowboy]

I guess lucky she never took his youth or beauty.

And lucky he has such a great opportunity to start again. I guess they both do

SC