Retirement Visa - Funds Question

[ChrisP]

Hi..

I understand that one of the requirements for a Retirement Visa is 800,000baht.

I've read that this can either be sat in a Bank somewhere.. OR can be certified as your annual income - maybe via a pension statement.

Can someone tell me:

1. Can the funds be certified as annual income, or does it HAVE to be a bank balance.?

2. Does the money HAVE to be sat in a bank in Thailand..? i.e can it be 800,000baht equivalent in foreign currency in a foreign bank?

3. Can you use some of it during the year, then top it up again before the next Visa Renewal?

I've read it's hard to open a Bank Account in LOS with a Retirement Visa anyway.. is this correct..??

ChrisP

[lanny]

The requirement for a retirement visa is that you must have a COMBINATION of money in a Thai bank and annual income which totals 800,000 Baht. You will be required to produce a bank statement or copy the bank book and a letter from your bank certifying the balance. Income must be certified by your embassy.

Once you have met the requirements, you can use the money; the account is not restricted. You just have to replenish the account to renew the visa next year.

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

The answers you seek are well documented on this site. I am probably not best qualified to reply but here goes anyway. I am new to this site but I am sure if anything I say is wrong I will be corrected.

The answer depends or whether you obtain the “retirement” O-A visa in your home country or convert from another visa type in Thailand.

Either way you must demonstrate you have a monthly income of 65000THB or 800000 in a bank or a combination of both i.e 32500pm and 400000 in the bank.

If you apply in your home country the equivalent of 800000 should be in you home bank/savings account and you will need to produce a bank statement and a very recent letter of confirmation from the bank. For application based on pension an original recent letter from you pension provider is required. I cannot say if other types of guaranteed regular income are acceptable – I suspect not.

After arriving in Thailand open an account. At some time you will need to transfer the 800000 to the account but no hurry.

For pension you should immediatley make arrangements for monthly trnasfer to your Thai bank account – many ways to do this.

If you convert in Thailand you will need to open a bank account before you apply. This should be easy – but if rejected just go to another bank. You can open an account with any visa but you will need an address in Thailand. The Bangkok Bank website is very helpful.

If you are relying on money in the bank you MUST transfer it from abroad before you apply for visa. You will need bank passbook and letter from bank.

If you are relying on monthly income go to your embassy with letter from pension company and they will produce a letter to take to immigration. I believe you also need letter from Bank and Bank passbook even if at this time it only contains one baht but I am not sure.

Remember in return for permission to stay long term you are expected to support the Thai ecomomy to the tune of 80000 however in practice what you do with the money is up to you. But transferring it back abroad is a definite no no. I won’t go into detail of obtaining a one year extension suffice to say you will have to demonstrate that 800000 in savings or pensionhas been transfered and withdrawn during the course of the year and if relying on lump sum another 800000 has been transferred into your account.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Well put seen all.

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

MY apologies to Lanny. In the hour it took me took draft my reply I had not noticed he had added a more succinct reply. And on re-reading the original post I see he was not asking for procedures, anyway.

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Thank you Doc. I truly appreciate your comment.

I have lived most of the past 3 years in Thailand, not as long as many. I have been a regular reader of the site but never felt qualified to contibute even when occasionally I see something I know to be, well, wrong.

I now feel maybe I have sufficient experience to assists others.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Go for it and welcome aboard.

[lopburi3]

This is the requirement in English directly from the Royal Thai Embassy web site in Washington DC

2.4 A copy of a bank statement showing a deposit at the amount equal to no less than 800,000 Baht, or an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly salary of no less than 65,000 Baht, or a deposit account plus a monthly income of no less than 800,000 Baht a year.

Seen All has obviously learned more than he knows and outlined the procedure well.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

He might subcontract for ya Lop. The pay is unfortunately crappy

[paulfr]

One minor detail I can add here ....

When I went for my Retirement extension renewal, even though I had enough income to qualify, they (Suan Plu) still insisted on a local bank letter verifying funds there too.

Makes no sense since the income was sufficient, but hey .... TIT.

This might save you or someone else an extra trip (for the bank letter) back to Suan Plu.

Edited October 2, 2005 by paulfr

[lopburi3]

One minor detail I can add here ....

When I went for my Retirement extension renewal, even though I had enough income to qualify, they (Suan Plu) still insisted on a local bank letter verifying funds there too.

Makes no sense since the income was sufficient, but hey .... TIT.

This might save you or someone else an extra trip (for the bank letter) back to Suan Plu.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True they do make sure you have a way to spend that money.

That bank letter and account (unspecified amount if pension if over requirements) seems to always be a requirement for a one year extension of stay.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

They want to be sure that you have ready money on hand in case of need.

[ChrisP]

Many thanks all..! Appreciated.

I will be applying for the Visa in my home country of the USA. I will have a Certified Pension of more than 65,000baht per month.

But two questions:

2.4 A copy of a bank statement showing a deposit at the amount equal to no less than 800,000 Baht, or an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly salary of no less than 65,000 Baht, or a deposit account plus a monthly income of no less than 800,000 Baht a year.

This statement seems to say that IF you have 65kbaht / month certified income you don't need the bank deposit of 800,000. But everyone keeps saying that Suan Plu expect to see it.

Hence my original post.

Then:

I won’t go into detail of obtaining a one year extension suffice to say you will have to demonstrate that 800000 in savings or pension has been transfered and withdrawn during the course of the year and if relying on lump sum another 800000 has been transferred into your account

I'm confused about the about the above in BOLD. Does that mean I have to withdraw/spend the 800,000 during the year..??

ChrisP

[lopburi3]

1. You must have a Thai bank account - you do not need 800k in it - so if you have full pension income I would guess 200k would be considered reasonable but do not believe extension would be held if less.

2. You need to show a reasonable spending pattern but it is not often checked closely. There has been no demand you spend 800k that I am aware of.

[TizMe]

Remember in return for permission to stay long term you are expected to support the Thai ecomomy to the tune of 80000 however in practice what you do with the money is up to you. But transferring it back abroad is a definite no no.

How would they know if say 3 months into your stay you take a trip back home and take 400,000 baht with you to deposit into your foreign account ready for retransfer back to Thailand 9 months down the track?

[kid]

But transferring it back abroad is a definite no no

Is this in Fact Stated somewhere ?

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Lopburi is of course right in his Point 2. There is of course no reason whatsoever to withdraw 800000 in the year. I don't know why I put that in. They would like you to spend the money but of course sitting in a Bank account it is earning money for the economy (or banks to be more precise) because of the low interest you get on Thai saving accounts.

A point which crosses my mind. OK. After a year you extend the visa the first time and have topped up to 800000. Now in year 2 you spend 500000, leaving 300000. When you come to extend a second time would IMM expect to see 110000 in the account i.e would you need to transfer a further 800000 or just a top up by 50000. (Obviously this point is not applicable to those who like the OP meet pension requirement in full).

Also when I said you should not transfer money abroad I should have been more concise and added "directly from your Thai bank account". Why did I put that? Well I was reminded of a practice of people who could not meet the requirements transferring money back to heir home country and then transferring it back again to Thailand. Dare say this happens still. Transferring directly from your account would lead to suspicion by IMM. I recall reading last year on this site that IMM were going to tighten up and give passbooks a closer inspection.

[lopburi3]

When you come to extend a second time would IMM expect to see 110000 in the account

800k in the bank account on the day you extend should be fine. There was a report last week of a new bank letter being used that will spell out your balance at the start of each month so expect those in the habit of borrowing/juggling funds for extension of stay may have to do some fast talking if this is really going to be checked.

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Lopburi. This is academic as I do not have or seek a retirement Visa but...

I interpret what you say as this:you could obtain a "retirement" visa with 800000 in a thai bank. Spend say 400000 over the course of the year, transfer in 400000, bring it to 800000 and repeat the process ad infinitum. Whereas someone on Pension must transfer in a minimum of 780000 (12x65000) each year.

This may be the practice but surely it is not what is intended.

Do you think down the road IMM may insist that 800000 must be transferred each year?

[lopburi3]

Lopburi. This is academic as I do not have or seek a retirement Visa but...

I interpret what you say as this:you could obtain a "retirement" visa with 800000 in a thai bank. Spend say 400000 over the course of the year, transfer in 400000, bring it to 800000 and repeat the process ad infinitum. Whereas someone on Pension must transfer in a minimum of 780000 (12x65000) each year.

This may be the practice but surely it is not what is intended.

Do you think down the road IMM may insist that 800000 must be transferred each year?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who is saying a person on a pension must transfer a minimum of 780,000 baht? I have never seen any such requirement. The requirement is that you have a pension of 65k per month or more.

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Lopburi,

Interesting.

I stated 780000(12x65000). That is 12 monthly payments of 65000baht. 780000.

Or are you also saying it is not necessary to actually transfer the pension. Just have evidence of the pension. Would suit me as I have a pension well in excess of this amont but because of alimony payments my net pension falls below the threshold. Therefore I have had to let my retiremnt visa lapse.

[lopburi3]

AFAIK you only are required to transfer what you need to use and that would be different for each of us. The requirement is the paper from your Embassy saying what your pension is and believe that is based on "what your are paid" not your net pay (but don't have a copy of paper in front of me).

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Hmmm.

I was sure you had to transfer a minimum 65000. I am 95% certain you are wrong. But if you are right then I'm a right Chump. For reasons already given I let my Visa lapse and have had the bother and expense of obtaining Tourist visas and extensions and visa runs.

What do those contibutors with visas based on pension have to say.

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Abject apologies Lopburi. My 95% certainty was wishful thinking that I wasn't going to be made to look like a chump. A hurried trawl of sites. Nowhere does it say you actually have to transfer the money. Sh*t and ######. Honour is due. You are correct. I could have transferred 55000pm but had no savings to make up the diffence. I now understand why, on extension, it appears from this forum, IMM insist on seeing 200000 in the account (they didn't with me). Previously I thought that out of order. I now think it more than reasonable.

You'll understand if I don't thank you for your contribution.

I said earlier today I believed my 3 years in the country now qualified me to contibute advice. Forget that. Still, my screen name has proven to be aposite so some consolation.

[lopburi3]

I don't believe immigration normally does anything more than insist that you have a bank account and the normal letter. Some have gotten the impression that 200k would be a nice amount to have in the account and I don't doubt that but do not believe anyone is having a problem with less at this point.

Not to worry. If you are wrong today wait a few months and you may well be right. Things do change often as much is policy rather than laws (which are often very broad).

[Steve2UK]

Until reading this thread, I thought I'd got the O-A renewal financial requirements sussed - now I'm confused again.

I won't have a pension of any significance (at least not for about 10 years - I'm 55 now) and plan to meet the renewal requirements by having 800,000 baht in my Thai bank account at the appropriate renewal time. Picking up on a point raised earlier, is it OK to draw down this 800,000 in the course of the year (say to 200,000) and only top it up to 800,000 a couple of weeks before the next renewal?

I'm asking this specific point because I picked up an implication (maybe wrongly) that the 800,000 baht needed to be "new" funds shown coming in each year.

On a second point - remembering that I'm not talking about a monthly pension - would I be able to use other income (from UK savings/investments and rental from UK property) in a similar way as operates for pensions i.e. to provide a proportion of the financial requirement and thereby reduce the 800,000 baht figure?

[redwood13]

I received my first extension 21 Sept. 2005 at Pattaya Immigration. Others have described the procedure so the only thing I'll comment on is in regard to the bank book. I'd gotten copies of my bank book pages and passport made at the little shop nearby the Immigration office.

It was around 14:00 by the time I’d filled out the TM 7 form and the office was jammed. I thought it might be too late in the day to complete the procedure, but I only had to wait a few minutes before the processing started. The officer made copies of the medical certificate, Embassy letter and the TM 7. I was asked for my signature on all the copies he made plus the passport and bank book pages.

With all the paperwork and documentation in satisfactory order the whole package was passed over to a female officer and I joined her at the adjacent desk. She rechecked everything and then went through the copies of the pages of my bank book (6 pages over a two year period) and using a yellow highlighter marked each instance of transfer of funds from the US into my Bangkok Bank account. She asked me something about transferring funds and I said I did it by wire transfer but only every 3 months or so to save on fees. Awhile later she asked me what I did for a living before I retired. She did the math on the numbers I submitted and as she was putting all the paperwork back together she asked, “So, you transfer money 3 or 4 times a year?” Was she trying to see if I had my story straight or just practicing her English? I don’t know. Paid the cashier 1900 baht and was told to return at 16:00 for my passport. And it was ready at 16:00.

A few comments:

US Embassy does not require any documentation of the amount of pension money. I'm told British Embassy does and also the procedure for Canadians is a bit more complex.

I probably don't transfer more than 600,000 baht per year from the US into my Thai bank account.

A friend who receives pension money in excess of the 65,000/mo. only had about 15,000 baht in his Thai bank account and there was no problem receiving an extension in Pattaya.

My impression is that you need to be able to present the qualifying financial evidence in such a way so there is no possible thought on the part of Immigration that you might be working illegally in Thailand.

One more thing; I received an O-A visa in the US Oct. 2003. Each time I returned to Thailand through Don Muang I was stamped in for an additional 365 days. As my last trip was to Singapore Sept. 2004 my new admitted until date was Sept. 2005, so I received almost 2 full years after my initial entry into Thailand using the O-A without having to go through the full extension process until last month.

-redwood

[lopburi3]

Until reading this thread, I thought I'd got the O-A renewal financial requirements sussed - now I'm confused again.

I won't have a pension of any significance (at least not for about 10 years - I'm 55 now) and plan to meet the renewal requirements by having 800,000 baht in my Thai bank account at the appropriate renewal time. Picking up on a point raised earlier, is it OK to draw down this 800,000 in the course of the year (say to 200,000) and only top it up to 800,000 a couple of weeks before the next renewal?

I'm asking this specific point because I picked up an implication (maybe wrongly) that the 800,000 baht needed to be "new" funds shown coming in each year.

On a second point - remembering that I'm not talking about a monthly pension - would I be able to use other income (from UK savings/investments and rental from UK property) in a similar way as operates for pensions i.e. to provide a proportion of the financial requirement and thereby reduce the 800,000 baht figure?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. You can draw down in a normal spending fashion and it should not be a problem as long as it is back up to 800k at renewal time. There has not been any requirement to remit any set amount each year.

2. The pension letter I signed from US Embassy was specific on the form of payment being pension but believe they may have other forms for other types and it may well be acceptable; although bank book may get a closer check in that case.

Overall I get the impression that as long as you can support yourself in a reasonable manner that does not suggest having to work in Thailand it should not be a problem.

[redwood13]

Thai immigration only asks for a statement from your embassy re your monthly income. What you'd need to do is convince the British Embassy that you can document an income stream that would satisfactorily meet the annual requirement.

The statement from the US Embassy is worded, "receives an amount of US$XXX every month from the US Government and/or other sources." The word "pension" doesn't even appear in the income declaration.

-redwood

[lanny]

After reading the posts after mine, I think I might add a bit of my experience.

When I renewed my retirement visa a couple of months ago, I had a letter from the US Embassy that stated my income. I also had copies of two bank books and letters from both banks. Neither bank account had more than about 40,000 Baht but the income was more than the monthly minimum.

At the Immigration Office, the officer taking my documents gave back the copy of one bank book and the related letter.

It seems that they want to see that you have enough resources to survive here and that you have a local bank account to use here.

Otherwise, the process is really quite simple. It actually took longer to get the letter from Bangkok Bank than to do the whole procedure at Immigration! (And, in the end, it was the letter from Bangkok Bank that she gave back to me!)