Abhisit Aghast At Lack Of Knowledge

[jimbeam1]

"So many children got zero in maths, even though it was a multiple-choice test," he said. "I can't believe that our children can be this stupid."

Believe it!

+1 Saved me posting it.

jb1

[trisailer]

National Defense Education Act (NDEA), signed into law on September 2, 1958 required all citizens to attend "school" it's been all down hill since then.

My father had a 3rd grade education and was the smartest man I know. He could drive a big truck, build a house, fix a car, design relay based logic systems for elevators and hit a telephone pole with a beer bottle while driving 50 miles and hour.

Edited April 27, 2011 by trisailer

[animatic]

Did Abhisit really say "I can't believe that our children can be this stupid."?

He's clearly been spending too much time on ThaiVisa.

Or maybe just the opposite!

[FOODLOVER]

"As for saying that the American system would not be an improvement is a joke"

The joke is on you, bub. I can get a computer to do what you "graduates from top universities can do" I came up on my wits, could always find beancounters to crunch the numbers, but struggled to find "educated" people who could lead. I hired a lot of engineers from top universities in my time. Not one was a leader who could "make things happen" empty suits all. Wall St is currently full of them.

I love hubris, It makes my life a cake walk.

Nice Hubris reference. I believe the topic is the Thai system not how bad the US system is and in that regards i feel that any one with half a brain can see that the system here in Thailand is not working. This is the point . To keep the status quo is a crime. You must first educate the "educators" which is not happening. I too agree that the school of hard knocks is equal to or better, especially in my chosen field as it also teaches a strong work ethic as well as the experience required. This is why Thailand should adopt an apprenticeship type approach to learning that requires them to actually produce under proper experienced direction. But until they the Thai people stop allowing all of their money to be stolen or foolishly spent i.e Thaksin , really cool submarines, this will seem to be the way of the educational system.

Non computer using bean counter,

Bub

[animatic]

Here's an example of stupid for you; the bastards that have all the opportunity and resources to get into a position of power and then use that power to enrich themselves and their "betters" while the little people are denied the basics of life. Look at what the education system in the US has wrought, fat, lazy, fearful, easily misled sheep. Yea....let's try to repeat that.

Yeah, right. How do you post about the US system. Did you attend? I went through the public education system and graduated from a world class university. I seem to be doing quite well. Fearful i am not! Easily misled, i am not! Fat, OK, maybe ate to much sheep but besides that doing great, thanks. As for saying that the American system would not be an improvement is a joke

Edited for grammatical and spelling errors (US educated)

Agreed, the american system does allow for those who can excel to excel, and doesn't hold them back just so others are not put out. At least not in my day.

It has been harmed by the Bush plans for it, 'No Child Left Behind', did the opposite of what it intended. It brought the American system closer to the Thai one. Pathetic idea. Badly conceived and actuated. But the system is slowly recovering from this stupidity.

I don't think Abhisit has had enough free time to adress the education problems in the 2 years he has had the possibility to do so. I do remember many rather passing daily issues taking a lot of time. But he has made many steps forward, and put in place mechanism to move the process of modernization of the school system ahead.

But 2 years is not enough to time, and he deserves more time to rock the boat of complacency he is butting up against in the school system hierarchy. I think this speech and his statement is actually a shot across the bows of the education establishment juggernaut of ineptitude.

Edited April 27, 2011 by animatic

[jimbeam1]

Did Abhisit really say "I can't believe that our children can be this stupid."?

Does anyone have the quote in Thai?

Why do you need it quoted in Thai? Abhisit is English?

jb1

Edited April 27, 2011 by jimbeam1

[JohnAllan]

I'm aghast that it's taken Abhisit this long to BECOME aghast! My son attends an 'international' school, and with an eclectic mix of teaching nationalities, I have, more than once, questioned some methods, use of staff, and books used. Thai staff teaching English will NEVER work - in this instance, it is intermixed with English teaching by, may I say, better qualified staff; but even then, it is often 'native' English teachers, whose first language is most certainly not English. A library of some 900 square metres, with one, short section, dedicated to books in English. An over-concentration - sorry if I upset some people's sensitivities, but tough - on religion, morals, culture, and Thai history - granted, students need to learn their country'[ie]s' history, but with a limited involvement in the global aspect, Thailand's history needs less attention, with more given over to world history.

And countrywide - a reading culture that is all too often, more reliant on pictures, than words: newspapers, books, comics.

And let's be frank: a radically improved education system, producing much better - and many more - qualified individuals, would impact on the politicians' ability to 'buy' their way into parliament. They would need to pay more . . . And the electorate would better see, and understand, just what they were going to get for their money

[Screws]

I have seen it written (in BP I think) that the average Thai IQ is 88.

One of the problems I think is the programmes on Thai TV - kids watch them and their IQ goes down.

[yoshiwara]

If this thread is any guide, then Thailand seems to be blessed with a number of falangs who did not complete their studies and think that is just as good as those who have.

I recall years ago asking a group of students whether they thought getting 65% in an assessment was good. 'Yes! Yes! Yes!' nearly all of them cried out.

'So', I replied, 'you would be happy being operated on by a surgeon who scored 65% in his last exam?'

Silence.

[FOODLOVER]

If this thread is any guide, then Thailand seems to be blessed with a number of falangs who did not complete their studies and think that is just as good as those who have.

I recall years ago asking a group of students whether they thought getting 65% in an assessment was good. 'Yes! Yes! Yes!' nearly all of them cried out.

'So', I replied, 'you would be happy being operated on by a surgeon who scored 65% in his last exam?'

Silence.

Uhm, i had one Dr, tell me i had a broken leg and put me in a cast. Three weeks later i was told that it was never broken. Had a friend told he was going to die from stomach cancer with out any further tests or diagnosis was scheduled for surgery. Turned out to be acid reflux. You would be lucky to get one with 65% correct.

[seriouseats]

Pretty sure if you left a thai kid watch Teletubbies, sesame street and other PBS american(there's show for pre-teens too) shows untill they were 18year old for 7hrs a day instead of school. They'd be fluent in english, Better in math and know more about the world and how the human body functions.

No joke. Sesame street has more knowledge than i have found in any thais i have ever encountered with a thai education. The shows they play for 10years old about science at 2-4pm is like a harvard PH.D.

Wouldnt it be cheap to just dump them a bunch of dvds? no test, no teaching? just TV.

[pisico]

When asked to divide 66.6 by one third and give the answer to the nearest whole number the usual response of candidates was to reach for a calculator or to ask if using one was permitted. The second most popular response was a reply of 22. I would guess that about 5% came up with the correct answer.

I'm hoping the answer's 200!

He also emphasised that universities should instil morality and wisdom in their students.

....and whose chosen morality would that be?

This all reminds me of a motivated friend here in CM who was in a dept teaching English which had and extraordinary good result a 100% success rate over their first year with their first batch of students. The dept was assessed from higher up and they were themselves given 61% (I think it was). My friend was aghast and checked into it. The detail of the report gave the sole reason as minus 39% because they hadn't given enough emphasis to ceremony, rites and rituals etc !

A simple Arithmetic problem cannot be solved successfully. Simple standard English sentences cannot be composed but the emphasis on "ceremonies, ritual and rites" is more than one third of grading? No wonder Thais scores are dismal.

[Fremann85]

well i doubt that mr abhisit really said that, cuz if he do so he's offending the whole nation, i dodn't think that the problem is that thai student are stupids, instead i think the the problem is that thai educational system need to be changed. currently i am styudying at one of the best univercities of the Kingdom,the 99 % of my classmates are thai since i am one of the few farang in our school taking the normal course for thai student(it means that all our classes are in thai) and i know a few students that are very smart and very clever too but i most to confess that the most of the students that i know have recieved a really bad education at primary and secondary levels so it is imposible that they can pass our nurmal courses as for example calculus, the univercity knows that, and that's why they force the teacher to "puch up" my fellows classmates ,so the get their degrees withough having the most basic knowledge about their mayors. in my opinion,the main problem is the system, not the students.:jap:

[FOODLOVER]

Pretty sure if you left a thai kid watch Teletubbies, sesame street and other PBS american(there's show for pre-teens too) shows untill they were 18year old for 7hrs a day instead of school. They'd be fluent in english, Better in math and know more about the world and how the human body functions.

No joke. Sesame street has more knowledge than i have found in any thais i have ever encountered with a thai education. The shows they play for 10years old about science at 2-4pm is like a harvard PH.D.

Wouldnt it be cheap to just dump them a bunch of dvds? no test, no teaching? just TV.

Big Bird Rocks!

[LPCustom69]

Picture this, Provincial town- High school13-18 years. The students do NOT know N.S.E.W.......am. pm.....Highest mountains. longest rivers. countries of the world. capitols. animals of the world and where they live. If you asked them how to get to Phuket from Udon-no Idea. this is a very small example of what they know, and thats apart from Maths English and the rest. Example being, at 11 years and secondary school in England, I already knew the answers to the earlier basic things mentioned. Talking about maths, basic divide by 10--remove the last number-yes ?? here NO IDEA. IS it the kids ?? or is it the Teachers ?? Or who ???

It's alright for academics and the like having certain systems of teaching--most of the education system is over the top, They are teaching what is a noun-or a verb- and a little more advanced subjects....THEY ARE FORGETTING the basic -open your eyes general knowledge-GEOGRAPHY. BASIC before advanced stuff please !!!!!

I'm always amazed that they can't pick Thailand out on a map or globe. They usually end up pointing to a large continent as being Thailand!

[WarpSpeed]

Did Abhisit really say "I can't believe that our children can be this stupid."?

Does anyone have the quote in Thai?

I thought that quite strong wording myself and blunt, refreshing honesty that will certainly haunt him at some point ..

Did he even say it in Thai? This is a Nation report so maybe he spoke English and though he speaks English quite proficiently still maybe he couldn't think of a more diplomatic way of putting his perceptions to words at the time..He wouldn't be the first politician to do that and that includes those whose first language is English..

[trisailer]

"i feel that any one with half a brain can see that the system here in Thailand is not working"

It's not about having "half a brain" it's about navagating this world with your soul intact. "What good is it to inherit the world if you loose your soul" They don't teach that in school. I got it sitting with my mouth shut holding the hand of my wife's 80 year old grandmother and listening to the conversation with ten thousand year old ancesters. Our brain is not our only organ for learning.

I'm perfectly happy that I killed off all those brain cells and now have about a quarter of a brain because my heart is whole.

[xminator]

Why learn anything? The students know that no matter how hard they try, its already decided who will be on top and who will be selling used mobile phones. Stuff like that works wonders on motivation.

But Mark, take a positive spin on this. Now that the future generation shows they are in no way ready to lead the country, you can stay in power for 40 more years. Why let a bunch of people without knowledge take part in something as important as elections? Just make sure the TV-stations have a lot of soaps...

Constructive: Ban soaps, send documentaries 24/7 and make sure the grades matter more then social standing when the younger generation steps into their working age. Of course this would also be a more educated and political awakened population, and that will be harder to controll for the old money...

[phuketdreaming]

I think many of you have misinterpreted his "stupid" comment - if he did say it at all. The way I understood the comment was that he was referring to the fact that students got "zero" on multiple guess questions. It's easy enought to blame the system but before you jump on that bandwagon, consider this: IMO, if you have half a brain, you can use the method of deduction and cancellation to rule out the really ridiculous answers (there's always one or two off the wall answers in a multiple guess question) until you are left with two reasonable answers. Then it becomes a hasip-hasip (50-50) chance of getting it correct. From a young child having to take occasional pop quizzes, this method produced at a minimum 25% success rate on the ones I guess at so when someone gets all questions wrong, then you can't just blame the system. I believe that's why he used the word "stupid".

[trisailer]

"he was referring to the fact that students got "zero" on multiple guess questions"

A old college friend of mine visited me this week and we talked about our kids. He told me about his son who did that very thing. Took multiple guess tests and scored zero on each and every one. This son from a upperclass family consistantly scored F's in every class. Here's a thought for you; how SMART do you have to be to take a multiple guess test and score zero? You have to know the right answer to avoid choosing it after all.

After 3 years of F's in high school his kid met a woman on line who liked his art and you know the rest of the story, graduated with straight A's, went to college and graduated near the top og his class.

I was a big brother to a kid who was the high school drug dealer and a straight F student. I met him in the Adventure book section of the local library and we started hanging out. We paddled kayaks and climbed rocks and I never said a word about education or used the "should" word. We got him a placement to the Colorado Outward Bound Program. He also graduated at the top of his class and went on to become a successful medical assistant.

I had a similar transformation becaused someone believed in me. My wife grew up in the village and she has a "monk uncle" a man who believed in her the story gets repeated a million times over, it has nothing to do with books, or school. It has everything to do with love.

Western education is a overpriced babbysitting service designed to produce conformist who go on to become depressed, over medicated, sleep deprived, hopeless fat people. So I hope the Thai's keep that in mind as THEY DECIDE how to move forward.

[SAffer]

They might want to rethink their "no fail" policy then and make the kids actually work at what they are doing, rather than paying for their "certificates" - i realize that is a "blanket" statement.

Another thing is; in Thailand a teacher is only secure in his/her position as long as the students like that teacher. Poor evaluations by students will result in dismissal of the teacher concerned (I am a student at a Thai uni.). So, the result is that teachers who are lazy and virtually give away A's to all students as well as limit the work-load of students... these are the teachers who can keep their jobs. Professional teacher (lecturers), who expect high performance from students and take no nonsense from them are sacked at the end of the semester.

Being popular is more important than imparting knowledge, the teacher's jobs depend on it.

I was in Israel 10 years ago. They run an 'Ulpan' program, in which students get taught Hebrew in around 3 months. This system works very well, as I saw the results first-hand... however, I am yet to hear of one 'kind' or 'popular' teacher within this system. The teachers were rude, demanding, and completely aloof- yet it works.

Thailand cannot educate kids who have so much power over the job security of teachers.

[Junglejumbo]

People always copy each others homework so when it comes to the exam they don't know how to problem solve. Schools should avoid problem solving questions and just do parrat style learning in order to save face and be rewarded with better scores.

Most importantly, schools and colleges should spend more time teaching about Thailand's history and tradition as well as the royal family in order to avoid accidentaly undesirable comments and les majeste cases which cost the state money and could destroy a person's career prospects. Culture should also be tought to avoid girls showing themselves in a culture contrarian mode at street fairs.

[Babcock]

Why learn anything? The students know that no matter how hard they try, its already decided who will be on top and who will be selling used mobile phones. Stuff like that works wonders on motivation.

But Mark, take a positive spin on this. Now that the future generation shows they are in no way ready to lead the country, you can stay in power for 40 more years. Why let a bunch of people without knowledge take part in something as important as elections? Just make sure the TV-stations have a lot of soaps...

Constructive: Ban soaps, send documentaries 24/7 and make sure the grades matter more then social standing when the younger generation steps into their working age. Of course this would also be a more educated and political awakened population, and that will be harder to controll for the old money...

I agree wholeheartedly.

From the nation: "Political activists and associates of high-profile Thammasat University historian Somsak Jiamteerasakul have reacted with shock to the lese-majeste charge filed against him."

I have been told by a professor with links to Thammasat they are not allowed to teach recent thai history there as opposed to ancient thai history for fear of falling foul of the Les majestie law 112. Critcal faculties are smothered as questioning the status quo is discouraged.

[animatic]

200 rounded up.

Edited April 27, 2011 by animatic

[wintermute]

Does Abhisit actually live in Thailand and interact with people there? If so this should come as no surprise.

Abhisit is an englishman educated abroad and has come back to basically administer Thailand as an expat Thai-Brit so i'd say he's pretty out of touch with the common folk. Hi-so Thais and their ilk can't relate to the regular folk because it is a different world (and oftentimes country) that they live in.

[chuang]

"So many children got zero in maths, even though it was a multiple-choice test," he said. "I can't believe that our children can be this stupid."

If the students can be this stupid...who to blame, the teachers and the education's system...

[dunkin2012]

200 rounded up.

haha.................

amused!

processing errors they said....

[FOODLOVER]

People always copy each others homework so when it comes to the exam they don't know how to problem solve. Schools should avoid problem solving questions and just do parrat style learning in order to save face and be rewarded with better scores.

Most importantly, schools and colleges should spend more time teaching about Thailand's history and tradition as well as the royal family in order to avoid accidentaly undesirable comments and les majeste cases which cost the state money and could destroy a person's career prospects. Culture should also be tought to avoid girls showing themselves in a culture contrarian mode at street fairs.

Maybe ethics as well since they copy each others work

[Jerrytheyoung]

in 1450 the korean king Sejong has introduced a new alphabet the hangul, because korean people were unable to write and communicate: it was a brake to the Country development.

The hangul is a powerful alphabet with a limited number of signs.

My elsdest child spend his time at school learning to write and read Thai, apparently a very limited time spent on other topics. geography: nil, History truncated, Calculus bare minimum.

But also in the Country (Issan) the environment is not there. Where to find books except Tesco? I have been obliged to buy a basic Atlas in Siam Paragon after looking around several days. We discuss at home the worldwide events but, true, Most of Thais have no a clue of Geographia. History knowledge is also very limited. truncated i will say.

Most Thais people are living in a buble, with nearly no knowledge of the outside world, definitively Thailand is going to be isolated from the worldwide evolution.

Maybe the first step is to begin to simplify the Thai writing, and to learn the International alphabet...so Thai will be more open on the world...but maybe it is exactly what do not want some Elites?

[animatic]

200 rounded up.

haha.................

amused!

processing errors they said....

1 / 3 or 1/3 = .33333 (1/3 rounded off, it just goes on and on)

66.6 / .33333 (rounded off) = 199.8019980199802

or 200 rounded up.

66.6 / .3333333333 (rounded off) =199.80000001998

200 rounded up. And shot.

66.6 / .33333333333333333 = 199.800000000000002

66.6 / .333 = 200, true, but that is not 1/3rd

It never said ' 1/3 of 66.6 ' which does equal 22.2

Edited April 27, 2011 by animatic