A very very good question!!

I have extracted what I consider to be "Pertinent Points" because as the OP, post shows this was initially raised by the former Edn Min and has been resurrected by the present day incumbent - it also seems to fit hand in glove with a new visa arrangement between Australia/Thailand.

Why not explore the possibility it being a means of supporting the "Qualified Teachers - Maybe it needs a "white paper" to be put forward in good faith to the "Minister" We have a bag of talent in TV to present such a "focus" eg, "Steven", Geo, Rumpole, Rhys, PB, the list goes on (apologies to those whose name did not appear).

To fill the gap, the Education Ministry in May this year launched a "Volunteer English Teachers in Thailand Project" to enable students in remote areas to learn directly from native speakers. Key word Volunteer.

Surely it would make more sense to require a TEFL or similar certificate than a Bachelor degree in any field. Many posters over the years have praised the "TEFL" as a necessary qualification for teaching English in Thailand.

^ Would seem to make more sense. TEFL minimum qualification ?

This volunteer program bring to mind the GO (GOVT Service Organization).. However, the American, Brits, and Canadians have left long ago..

It was clearly a cultural exhange with a bit of technical know-how thrown it..

Learning the ropes.. teaching English.. fresh out of Linguistics 101 and into the dirt floor class room.. that includes... the class dog too..allows the newbie to make the mistakes and learn..so when it really counts.. maybe at the upper levels.. the newbie.. has the experience.. Yes

In my opinion if they dropped the Degree requirement you might get some more takers _ Would a TEFL Certicate be a worthy substitute?

I don't think they mentioned a wage other than the 8K, and an allowance. I know they tried something like this before with 'proper' teachers but they paid them around 30K....they didn't hang around long when they saw the class sizes etc.

And you're right, letting people without a degree do it, would make far, far, far more sense and they'd got a lot more people willing do it for the long haul. Are we talking residents who would attend a paid TEFL in lieu of a one-way plane ticket?

I guess you're expected to save enough from that lucrative 8K a month to pay for the return ticket. This would be equal to 6 months wages??

I would also add that the every 3 months transfers be listed as optional. It also erodes any chance for consistency in the education of the students.

Lastly, make it a year long extension on a non-B visa with work permit provided. Very worthy points.

my eyes hurt....

I really cannot see this scheme attracting anyone except a few extremely naive and uninformed people who have some particularly masochistic reason for wishing to live a penurious existence in Thailand.

Requiring a bachelor's degree to participate in this splendid, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, means that any applicant who qualifies could just as easily walk into almost any school in any town in Thailand and find a job paying a minimum of Bht25,000 per month. That same bachelor's degree opens doors in Taiwan, Japan, China, Korea and a number of other places worldwide which will pay more and/or offer a lot more benefits than anything the Thais are offering.

As anyone who has ever had the misfortune to experience Thai working practices knows, there is no way on earth that most schools are going to let these "volunteers" just come in, teach a few hours a week, and then spend the rest of their time "enjoying and appreciating the real Thai culture." The (fatally-flawed) reasoning will be that since these farang are being paid as much as Thai teachers, they should be expected to put up with the same kind of excrement, including being physically present for a ridiculous number of hours, gate-duty, slopping-out lunch for the kids, “editing” Ajarn Kantika’s master’s thesis, and attending the late Ajarn Taweechai’s (who?) funeral rites on their one day off per week. Ineptitude, envy, xenophobia and total lack of any cross-cultural or other management skills will ensure that these “volunteers” are squeezed for all they are worth, in precisely the same way as anyone else who elects to endure indentured-serfdom in the Thai “education” system.

The more I think about this scheme, the less of a joke I think it is. It is in fact a very unpleasant confidence trick, devised by greedy, tight-fisted people, seeking to exploit the naivety and goodwill of those who are probably a good deal more philanthropic than themselves.

I really cannot see this scheme attracting anyone except a few extremely naive and uninformed people who have some particularly masochistic reason for wishing to live a penurious existence in Thailand. 

Requiring a bachelor's degree to participate in this splendid, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, means that any applicant who qualifies could just as easily walk into almost any school in any town in Thailand and find a job paying a minimum of Bht25,000 per month.  That same bachelor's degree opens doors in Taiwan, Japan, China, Korea and a number of other places worldwide which will pay more and/or offer a lot more benefits than anything the Thais are offering. 

As anyone who has ever had the misfortune to experience Thai working practices knows, there is no way on earth that most schools are going to let these "volunteers" just come in, teach a few hours a week, and then spend the rest of their time "enjoying and appreciating the real Thai culture."  The (fatally-flawed) reasoning will be that since these farang are being paid as much as Thai teachers, they should be expected to put up with the same kind of excrement, including being physically present for a ridiculous number of hours, gate-duty,  slopping-out lunch for the kids, “editing” Ajarn Kantika’s master’s thesis, and attending the late Ajarn Taweechai’s (who?) funeral rites on their one day off per week.  Ineptitude, envy, xenophobia and total lack of any cross-cultural or other management skills will ensure that these “volunteers” are squeezed for all they are worth, in precisely the same way as anyone else who elects to endure indentured-serfdom in the Thai “education” system.

The more I think about this scheme, the less of a joke I think it is.  It is in fact a very unpleasant confidence trick, devised by greedy, tight-fisted people, seeking to exploit the naivety and goodwill of those who are probably a good deal more philanthropic than themselves.

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My Rumpole, I'm sorry you had a bad expierence in Thailand. I guess bad things happen to good people sometimes. Things are always changing and perhaps in time Thailand will work through the problems you have witnessed and be a place you might want to work in again.

As for myself, I love it here. I can't ever see living anywhere else. I know it's not perfect and it has its share of bad people, but I have seen worse. To me, it is the paradise I was looking for my whole life.

I hope you find your paradise as well.

Rich how long you been teaching here mate???

Heh heh heh... I find myself, regrettably, agreeing with almost everything Rumpole said regarding the typical working situation here. Some of us (including myself) have toughed it out and found things *somewhat* more tolerable than the typical, but always with elements as he described- and I agree that, without a really, really good reason to stay here (as I believe I have and Richard seems to have) it's not really financially worth the investment of time and effort to find those slightly better places.

The struggle I had here is one of the things that inspires me to try to be an honest broker of information about working conditions here.

"Steven"

Ken, I haven't been teaching long. About a year and a half. I think my situation is a little different and a little more ideal.

I have another source of income so I don't teach for money. Since I don't get paid, I can pick when and where I teach. For me, this keeps teaching fun.

I only do it to help the children. All the children I teach are farmers kids in a very rural part of Thailand. The ampher dosen't even have a 7-11. Their village just got water so life is improving for them. Most have electricity now too.

I am not the greatest teacher and often I find myself looking at teaching English websites just to make sure I am giving the kids the right information.

I have taught myself to read and write Thai and this helps alot when it comes to getting the kids to pronounce words correctly.

Sometimes teaching is frustrating but it's getting better. The kids seem like they are almost to the point of having a conversation with me. I know that dosent seem like much, but I have gotten reports from a few of my students that in their school that they are the best English student.

When I hear that I scratch my head in disbelief thinking if some of the kids I teach are the best in their school, then the rest of the kids must really be really bad.

I don't know if teaching them English will improve their lives. I hope it will. I am trying to inspire them to follow their dreams. 3 of them want to be doctors and one a nurse. I think they will need English skills to get in a university.

I know I can't save the whole world, or make a big difference in Thailand. I would like to help my little part of the world. For me, that makes life worth living.

I borrowed this from another thread:

A bit off topic, but I've been told recently that it's not even a requirement by Thai law to have a degree to teach English in all cases.

Apparently a degree is required to work for an international school or through and employment agency. Reason being is these two situations require a teachers license.

But I am told that I can be employed directly through a government run school, and so long as I can show a TEFL or equivalent and they are happy to employ me, it's ok.

This needs to be clarified ( KK I don't doubt what you have said) - It adds weight to a lot of posters thoughts about TEFL being the qualification needed rather than just any Degree.

Correct me if I am wrong buy i am sure this latest push is for government run schools

http://www.bangkokpost.com/Perspective/02Oct2005_pers03.php

New volunteers programme viable?

SONGPOL KAOPATUMTIP

Various strategies and programmes have been drawn up by the Education Ministry during the past decade to develop Thai students' English communication skills and improve the teaching efficiency of Thai teachers of English. Some foreign governments have provided financial assistance for Thai teachers' training abroad, and foreign volunteers have come to teach English to Thai students. But most of these programmes were short-term and public schools now have to recruit foreign teachers by themselves.

Under the education reform programme that began in 1999, the teaching of English in Thai public schools is divided into four levels _ from Grade 1 to 3, 4 to 6, 7 to 9, and 10 to 12 _ to enable Thai children to read, write and speak English step by step.

The official said this project, if successfully implemented, can be a model for other public schools to follow. "Everyone will gain from this endeavour. The students can learn from native English speakers, and the volunteers can gain a lot of experience because they can rotate to teach in different schools and in different regions every three or four months."

To contact OBEC, call (662) 281-1958 or (662) 280-5561. Fax: (662) 281-5216. Website: http://www.obec.go.th.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Having given this a great deal of thought, better to implement the program by locating it in Umbakumba on Groote Eyland (Australia) which can be transformed into a Thailand away from Thailand and where "Gitdai" will become a northern Australian accent that will imbue students with a sense of belonging. Vocational students

can learn croc hunting and return to guide tourists through the wild south.

Mij,

There's info on the other board where a chap working direct with the school (I assume a proper school, rather than a language school) got a WP without a degree. And I personally know a fair few people that have managed it.

What's wrong with inviting volunteers - people not looking for money and creature comforts? They can surely help out with English in rural schools.

I don't know how the country can plan its whole English language teaching on volunteers though. Just how many interested people are there? How are they going to find them?

Do they have English speaking staff ready to answer the phone calls? They give only two contact numbers, is it enough for all the volunteers to get through? Their website is in Thai so it's pretty much useless.

Imagine all the hurdles volunteers have overcome to get these jobs. Or perhaps it's intentional and is just a clever way to present themselves as a truly third world country unable to pay for its education.

What's wrong with inviting volunteers - people not looking for money and creature comforts? They can surely help out with English in rural schools.

I don't know how the country can plan its whole English language teaching on volunteers though. Just how many interested people are there? How are they going to find them?

Do they have English speaking staff ready to answer the phone calls? They give only two contact numbers, is it enough for all the volunteers to get through? Their website is in Thai so it's pretty much useless.

Imagine all the hurdles volunteers have overcome to get these jobs. Or perhaps it's intentional and is just a clever way to present themselves as a truly third world country unable to pay for its education.

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Plus - There are currently several volunteer avenues - an American one (the name escapes me) requires the volunteer to pay I think about $150 a month for which they receive a homestay and employment at a Thai School - the period spent is recorded/reported on and it allows the Vol to gain credits which are put towards their studies back in America.

I doubt if they have English speaking staff ready to receive calls (hope I am wrong) Web site in Thai & hurdles would be have to be put down to lack of planning (unable to look outside the square).

The pay scale is in the "volunteer category" I feel the promotional aspects of the scheme is offtrack and it will probably end up just another idea that is shelved due to no project sponsor with enough oomph to modify/push for an outcome.

Just how many interested people are there?

They're well and truly on the way to reaching their target. As of 9:30 this morning Thai time, 30 people had completed their online application form. Only another 9970 to go.

Hurry hurry hurry or you'll miss out

I really cannot see this scheme attracting anyone except a few extremely naive and uninformed people who have some particularly masochistic reason for wishing to live a penurious existence in Thailand. 

Requiring a bachelor's degree to participate in this splendid, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, means that any applicant who qualifies could just as easily walk into almost any school in any town in Thailand and find a job paying a minimum of Bht25,000 per month.  That same bachelor's degree opens doors in Taiwan, Japan, China, Korea and a number of other places worldwide which will pay more and/or offer a lot more benefits than anything the Thais are offering. 

As anyone who has ever had the misfortune to experience Thai working practices knows, there is no way on earth that most schools are going to let these "volunteers" just come in, teach a few hours a week, and then spend the rest of their time "enjoying and appreciating the real Thai culture."  The (fatally-flawed) reasoning will be that since these farang are being paid as much as Thai teachers, they should be expected to put up with the same kind of excrement, including being physically present for a ridiculous number of hours, gate-duty,  slopping-out lunch for the kids, “editing” Ajarn Kantika’s master’s thesis, and attending the late Ajarn Taweechai’s (who?) funeral rites on their one day off per week.  Ineptitude, envy, xenophobia and total lack of any cross-cultural or other management skills will ensure that these “volunteers” are squeezed for all they are worth, in precisely the same way as anyone else who elects to endure indentured-serfdom in the Thai “education” system.

The more I think about this scheme, the less of a joke I think it is.  It is in fact a very unpleasant confidence trick, devised by greedy, tight-fisted people, seeking to exploit the naivety and goodwill of those who are probably a good deal more philanthropic than themselves.

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Well said. My (Thai) wife just quit her job at a local school for these reasons, and a whole lot more i might add. There is absolutely zero focus on the quality of the education, it's all about all the other added crap, sometimes I think the kids are more mature than the staff.

It is quite pathetic.

That's what happens when you run education as a business!

Just how many interested people are there?

They're well and truly on the way to reaching their target. As of 9:30 this morning Thai time, 30 people had completed their online application form. Only another 9970 to go.

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Rumpole please make sure the information posted is factual. I called the MoE and CoB also the DFRDB and as of 9.30am 7/10/2548 31 people had completed their online application forms not 30.

You may have been mislead by the fact one (1) application was from Austria and they were checking to see if this was an actual spelling mistake or that the applicant was experiencing difficulty remembering the spelling of his native land.

(I took the time to inform the officer in charge that the actual native from that country was spelt "aboriginal" alas I think by the sound on the other end of the line I have done that particular applicant a dis-service.

Not 100% sure but the officer did say the number of on-line applicants is now 30 so back to you old salt.

These figures are important as it would be wrong to discourage potential applicants by giving the impression there were no more vacancies. Remember there is always next year.

Just how many interested people are there?

They're well and truly on the way to reaching their target. As of 9:30 this morning Thai time, 30 people had completed their online application form. Only another 9970 to go.

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Remember there is always next year.

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And the year after, and the year after that, and ....

At this rate, I calculate it will take them a little over six years to fill all these highly desirable positions. I don't think you need to start packing your bags just yet, boys!

All together now.. PEELING, NUTHIN MORE DAN PEELING

Once again, let us publish the PROPAGANDA ALERT. THIS IS A GOVERNBMENT PRONOUNCEMENT, NOT THE TRUTH.

The original plan was impossible, and not implemented. Thirty applicants, so far; wowzer! Most of them don't qualify, or won't come - and I'll bet they never get 200 who actually come and spend two months.

It's a joke, or it should be.

I bet if they drop the degree requirement they will get 200. Probably much more.

^ Again though.....that would make far too much sense