Thai Nun's Bizarre Rituals Violate Rights: NHRC

[webfact]

Nun's bizarre rituals violate rights: NHRC

By The Nation

A so-called karmacorrection ritual supervised by a famous nun shows clear violations of human rights, National Human Rights Commissioner Visa Benjamano said yesterday.

In the ritual, Maechee Tossaporn Tewapitak told a woman to correct her karma by welcoming the sexual touches of a younger man.

"The victim doesn't know her rights have been violated," Visa commented yesterday.

She said the nun used verbal violence during the ritual and her advice was inappropriate.

Tossaporn has offered karmacorrection rituals at Wat Pichayatikaram in Bangkok for years.

In the wake of the nun's questionable practices, Culture Minister Nipit Intarasombat ordered the ministry's Culture Watch Centre to study clips of the rituals that were posted on the Internet.

The centre's director, Ladda Tangsupachai, said she found many clips in which the nun encouraged the wrong attitudes and condoned inappropriate actions such as repeatedly forcing water into a girl's nostrils. However, she said most of these clips had already been removed, perhaps by the posters themselves.

"Posting such clips is a legal offence under the 2007 Computer Crime Act. Offenders face up to five years in jail and/or a maximum fine of Bt100,000," she said.

Amnaj Buasiri, who heads the Sangha Supreme Council secretariat, said Wat Pichayatikaram's abbot, Phra Prommolee, had already reprimanded Tossaporn and instructed her to adjust her teachings.

"Currently, there is no law to sanction punishment against the nun. The abbot, however, may consider forcing her out of the nunhood if she doesn't pay heed to his reprimands," Amnaj said.

He said the Supreme Sangha Council would be able to enforce rules against nuns only after the Buddhism Protection Bill was legislated.

"The bill is being amended in response to recommendations from the Council of State," Amnaj added.

Thai Nun Institute Foundation board member Maechee Ananta Nakboon said Tossaporn should indeed adjust her teachings because they were not in line with Buddhism.

"We hope she will adjust them because her actions may hurt the image of nuns in general," Ananta said.

-- The Nation 2011-04-29

[bud7]

No law to punish the person who violates the rights of others, but laws to punish anyone who makes the information public. Insanity.

[SiangDeeMahk]

No law to punish the person who violates the rights of others, but laws to punish anyone who makes the information public. Insanity.

Perfectly sane, in a land where Face outweighs Fact.

[dayverne]

And yet nun-disclosure is a crime! Where does that leave the Nation?

[chmiroau]

No law to punish the person who violates the rights of others, but laws to punish anyone who makes the information public. Insanity.

That sounds right, otherwise the people in great power would find themselves in real trouble with the law, usually the law makers themselves. It would be counter productive for the law makers to make a law that they already know they violate, and such would incriminate themselves.

On the other hand, Buddhism. Why is it that there is a need for the Buddhist Protection Bill, and what exactly does this mean????

[webfact]

one unreadable post deleted. Please do not use any MS/Apple word/Apple iWork editors. Members are advised to use plain text editor instead of RTE

[jfchandler]

I love the Culture Ministry....

Bare boobies at Song Kran... a national disgrace....

But a nun who encourages "sexual touching" to adjust people's karma.... No action against the nun....but threaten those who posted videos of the "bizarre" rituals with violation of the Computer Crimes Act.

Glad to see they have their priorities straight...

[guava]

No law to punish the person who violates the rights of others, but laws to punish anyone who makes the information public. Insanity.

As I started reading the article there was the usual <deleted> response, but I would have read it, muttered something about religion and nutters, and moved on. But when I read that bit, my jaw hit the floor. The pure hypocrisy and raw idiocy of these people still astounds* me. The fact they (and far too many like them) have influence over anything more important than a sandwich is one of the biggest issues facing this country, and the world today.

With people like this "protecting" human rights, by um, trampling on better people's human rights, Sharia law starts to sound like a picnic. Sadly thinking like this doesn't even come close to the far greater human rights abuses happening here.

I doubt the Computer Crimes act covers nonsense like this anyway, but scary to think there's people out there who think it should. In other countries people like this are called whistle blowers and they deserve our gratitude and respect, not fines and prison terms longer than rapists and murderes.

I'm reminded of one of the great CS Lewis quotes "Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies, The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."

*astounds will have to do for now, I can't think of a word that implies astounds to the power of 10, and I won't use the required f-word quantifier lest I break the forum laws of this broad smiling land, obviously requiring my torture, and execution by drawing and quartering.

[Screws]

Guava "As I started reading the article there was the usual <deleted> response, but I would have read it, muttered something about religion and nutters, and moved on. But when I read that bit, my jaw hit the floor. The pure hypocrisy and raw idiocy of these people still astounds* me. The fact they (and far too many like them) have influence over anything more important than a sandwich is one of the biggest issues facing this country, and the world today."

No less sane than Bristol Palin picking up a quarter of a mill to be 'abstinence ambassador' for the Candies Foundation.

Edited April 29, 2011 by Screws

[Emster23]

Good comments. I had to copy and paste that CS Lewis observation. Until there is freedom of press and speech, there will be no democracy or freedom in Thailand.

[kennalder]

The centre's director, Ladda Tangsupachai, said she found many clips in which the nun encouraged the wrong attitudes and condoned inappropriate actions such as repeatedly forcing water into a girl's nostrils. However, she said most of these clips had already been removed, perhaps by the posters themselves.

"Posting such clips is a legal offence under the 2007 Computer Crime Act. Offenders face up to five years in jail and/or a maximum fine of Bt100,000," she said.

Posting clips of a water-boarding nun is punishable by up to 5 years? First question I have is, who took the video? If it was the nun herself, is she immune under the same lack of law that allows her to perform these acts? If so she could perform the deeds, make movies of the deeds, and have no consequences. But someone shedding light is up the creek. What a great slogan: Amazing Thailand!

Just where does this nonsensical computer crime act stop? If I am taking a movie of say a wedding, and a dog in the background is pissing on something sacred, do I go to jail for posting it on the web?

Really, does anyone know the scope of this insane law?

[MILT]

No law to punish the person who violates the rights of others, but laws to punish anyone who makes the information public. Insanity.

As I started reading the article there was the usual <deleted> response, but I would have read it, muttered something about religion and nutters, and moved on. But when I read that bit, my jaw hit the floor. The pure hypocrisy and raw idiocy of these people still astounds* me. The fact they (and far too many like them) have influence over anything more important than a sandwich is one of the biggest issues facing this country, and the world today.

With people like this "protecting" human rights, by um, trampling on better people's human rights, Sharia law starts to sound like a picnic. Sadly thinking like this doesn't even come close to the far greater human rights abuses happening here.

I doubt the Computer Crimes act covers nonsense like this anyway, but scary to think there's people out there who think it should. In other countries people like this are called whistle blowers and they deserve our gratitude and respect, not fines and prison terms longer than rapists and murderes.

I'm reminded of one of the great CS Lewis quotes "Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies, The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."

*astounds will have to do for now, I can't think of a word that implies astounds to the power of 10, and I won't use the required f-word quantifier lest I break the forum laws of this broad smiling land, obviously requiring my torture, and execution by drawing and quartering.

nicely put. How about F*#%cking astounded?

[jfchandler]

Exactly!!! Glad to see you're beginning to get the hang of these things....

No sacred stuff dog pissing allowed on the web in Thailand.

But you can sign up for a karmic realignment at your local wat...

Just where does this nonsensical computer crime act stop? If I am taking a movie of say a wedding, and a dog in the background is pissing on something sacred, do I go to jail for posting it on the web?

[exbelg]

the crime in this country is not the action act but the making public, apprently...

3rd world country for something, isn't it ?

[Thaddeus]

Well, at least her name sounds about right.

[Arkady]

The 2007 Computer Crimes Act was ostensibly intended to protect the public from computer hackers but is, in fact, a powerful tool for the suppression of freedom of speech and information. The cabinet is currently reviewing a bill that will give it even sharper teeth.

[CHANGOVER]

Well, at least her name sounds about right.

My thought exactly - Tossaporn told a woman to correct her karma by welcoming the sexual touches of a younger man.

[Asa]

Is not the nun violating the law of unorthodox preaching, nasty behavior, encouraging out of wed intercourse? applying Section 283,284,388 of Criminal Code. How about the abbot who gives shelter to this nasty nun?

[pisico]

No law to punish the person who violates the rights of others, but laws to punish anyone who makes the information public. Insanity.

Perfectly sane, in a land where Face outweighs Fact.

Kill the messenger! We cannot lose face!

[SAffer]

The centre's director, Ladda Tangsupachai, said she found many clips in which the nun encouraged the wrong attitudes and condoned inappropriate actions such as repeatedly forcing water into a girl's nostrils. However, she said most of these clips had already been removed, perhaps by the posters themselves.

"Posting such clips is a legal offence under the 2007 Computer Crime Act. Offenders face up to five years in jail and/or a maximum fine of Bt100,000," she said.

Posting clips of a water-boarding nun is punishable by up to 5 years? First question I have is, who took the video? If it was the nun herself, is she immune under the same lack of law that allows her to perform these acts? If so she could perform the deeds, make movies of the deeds, and have no consequences. But someone shedding light is up the creek. What a great slogan: Amazing Thailand!

Just where does this nonsensical computer crime act stop? If I am taking a movie of say a wedding, and a dog in the background is pissing on something sacred, do I go to jail for posting it on the web?

Really, does anyone know the scope of this insane law?

I certainly don't know the scope of the law. But I do know that waterboarding has become quite popular among Thais...

My first shoking exposure to this cam late one night when my neighbour a 'Tom' and her friends performed a little waterboarding on the young 'Dee' she kept in the room.

I was shoked about the cries and screams... and due to the thin wall I could even hear the water, choking and so on.

The 'De' would be penetrated by toys while being water-boarded. Very disturbing indeed.

And almost daily, as other Toms would come to join the action.

The girl never left the room for more than a month that I observed it all... and I tried to report it to various authorities, not even as much as an investigation to verify my claims.

As for the landlord, he said he is sorry that the noise disturbs me, but seeing as the 'Tom' is the neice of the buildings owner it would be better for me to just get another room.

The whole thing was horrendous... I think it is terrible that it may not be exposed.

[Steely Dan]

While I think it unwise of the authorities to try and censor this matter I would observe that at least they seem to be embarassed at the antics of a follower of the state religion. There appears to be no such embarassment from various Countries where they stone adulterers to death and execute homosexuals and they actually advertise such activity rather than hush it up.

[Tanaka]

The centre's director, Ladda Tangsupachai, said she found many clips in which the nun encouraged the wrong attitudes and condoned inappropriate actions such as repeatedly forcing water into a girl's nostrils. However, she said most of these clips had already been removed, perhaps by the posters themselves.

"Posting such clips is a legal offence under the 2007 Computer Crime Act. Offenders face up to five years in jail and/or a maximum fine of Bt100,000," she said.

Posting clips of a water-boarding nun is punishable by up to 5 years? First question I have is, who took the video? If it was the nun herself, is she immune under the same lack of law that allows her to perform these acts? If so she could perform the deeds, make movies of the deeds, and have no consequences. But someone shedding light is up the creek. What a great slogan: Amazing Thailand!

Just where does this nonsensical computer crime act stop? If I am taking a movie of say a wedding, and a dog in the background is pissing on something sacred, do I go to jail for posting it on the web?

Really, does anyone know the scope of this insane law?

I read the law and cannot find anything that supports the claim of Ladda Tangsuphachai.

[Familyonthemove]

While I think it unwise of the authorities to try and censor this matter I would observe that at least they seem to be embarassed at the antics of a follower of the state religion. There appears to be no such embarassment from various Countries where they stone adulterers to death and execute homosexuals and they actually advertise such activity rather than hush it up.

True ..... but two really big wrongs don't make a smaller wrong right ....... if you see what I mean?

[witsawakorn]

The centre's director, Ladda Tangsupachai, said she found many clips in which the nun encouraged the wrong attitudes and condoned inappropriate actions such as repeatedly forcing water into a girl's nostrils. However, she said most of these clips had already been removed, perhaps by the posters themselves.

"Posting such clips is a legal offence under the 2007 Computer Crime Act. Offenders face up to five years in jail and/or a maximum fine of Bt100,000," she said.

Posting clips of a water-boarding nun is punishable by up to 5 years? First question I have is, who took the video? If it was the nun herself, is she immune under the same lack of law that allows her to perform these acts? If so she could perform the deeds, make movies of the deeds, and have no consequences. But someone shedding light is up the creek. What a great slogan: Amazing Thailand!

Just where does this nonsensical computer crime act stop? If I am taking a movie of say a wedding, and a dog in the background is pissing on something sacred, do I go to jail for posting it on the web?

Really, does anyone know the scope of this insane law?

Wouldn't it be worth finding out the scope of the law before declaring it as beeing insane? I see a lot of posters have very strong opinions about this law yet I don't see any evidence that anyone even knows what its about.

[XAR]

the crime in this country is not the action act but the making public, apprently...

3rd world country for something, isn't it ?

I guess I am called upon to provide this reading public with answers on what is and is not allowed. It was not the recording of the acts that was illegal (whoops!, illegal does not matter here; what I mean is that the recording of the event would not subject one to arrest; unless of course you pissed off a police officer or public official; of course that is not limited to just recording acts; but I digress). What was inexcusable was the method of dissemination of said acts. Everyone knows that making videos public can only be done by hiring Thais to flash still pictures of your video and chant "sexy DVD" at tourists passing by. Once an interested customer is identified, well they can buy as many videos of questionable acts as they like. Putting it on Youtube? Don't be ridiculous! That would be construed as being illegal and is enforced by law.

[TheLaughingMan]

I certainly don't know the scope of the law. But I do know that waterboarding has become quite popular among Thais...

My first shoking exposure to this cam late one night when my neighbour a 'Tom' and her friends performed a little waterboarding on the young 'Dee' she kept in the room.

I was shoked about the cries and screams... and due to the thin wall I could even hear the water, choking and so on.

The 'De' would be penetrated by toys while being water-boarded. Very disturbing indeed.

And almost daily, as other Toms would come to join the action.

The girl never left the room for more than a month that I observed it all... and I tried to report it to various authorities, not even as much as an investigation to verify my claims.

As for the landlord, he said he is sorry that the noise disturbs me, but seeing as the 'Tom' is the neice of the buildings owner it would be better for me to just get another room.

The whole thing was horrendous... I think it is terrible that it may not be exposed.

What in the hell.....

[canajarn]

"Currently, there is no law to sanction punishment against the nun. The abbot, however, may consider forcing her out of the nunhood if she doesn't pay heed to his reprimands," Amnaj said.

Is this because

A) There are no laws against torture or sexual misconduct (specifically comitted by a person of authority)

or

Religious figures are immune from national legal jurisdiction and must instead face ecclesiastic "law"?

Both possibilities are reprehensible but given the quote - "The abbot, however, may consider forcing her out of the nunhood if she doesn't pay heed to his reprimands," Amnaj said. - I lean towards B.

[Thai at Heart]

She said the nun used verbal violence during the ritual and her advice was inappropriate.

Is this a crime?

I am sick and tired of the moral blue rinse brigade getting their knickers in a twist about things and interpreting the law as they see fit.

[kennalder]

The centre's director, Ladda Tangsupachai, said she found many clips in which the nun encouraged the wrong attitudes and condoned inappropriate actions such as repeatedly forcing water into a girl's nostrils. However, she said most of these clips had already been removed, perhaps by the posters themselves.

"Posting such clips is a legal offence under the 2007 Computer Crime Act. Offenders face up to five years in jail and/or a maximum fine of Bt100,000," she said.

Posting clips of a water-boarding nun is punishable by up to 5 years? First question I have is, who took the video? If it was the nun herself, is she immune under the same lack of law that allows her to perform these acts? If so she could perform the deeds, make movies of the deeds, and have no consequences. But someone shedding light is up the creek. What a great slogan: Amazing Thailand!

Just where does this nonsensical computer crime act stop? If I am taking a movie of say a wedding, and a dog in the background is pissing on something sacred, do I go to jail for posting it on the web?

Really, does anyone know the scope of this insane law?

Wouldn't it be worth finding out the scope of the law before declaring it as beeing insane? I see a lot of posters have very strong opinions about this law yet I don't see any evidence that anyone even knows what its about.

How much do you need to know? 5 years for posting a clip of a nun torturing someone, your idea of sanity? How about for posting a clip of 3 topless dancers in a land where prostitution runs rampant? Where you can get a bj under the table in some places? Still sound sane? The severity of the punishment alone is enough for me to call it insane. I doubt knowing every subtlety of the law will change my mind, but I am willing to listen.

[rogerdee123]

Sounds like the old Mamasan at Annies!