Muslim men removed from U.S. flight after pilot refuses to fly them

[Moonrakers]

My stance from the beginning is that the people on the plane were extremely narrow minded and ignorant to object to certain passengers just because they are Muslim.

If how they are dressed is a deciding factor, then surely that just reinforces my opinion.

You would need to forgive the narrow minded people, their perceptions have been made up from what they have seen and that is terrorists being dressed same way when they issue threats and everything else along the lines.

So it is NOT people who should be accommodating Muslim Imams in USA but Muslim Imams should be accommodating people.

Just like Westerners have to respect Arab traditions when they are in Arab country, i do not see a reason why Arabs should not do the same when in USA.

Dress as a bum and go to Porche or Bentley dealership, unless you are a well known person, chances are you will be thrown out and police will be called.

Its called appropriate attire! Person does not go to black & white ball wearing bikini and expect to be treated "normally"

I too have seen terrorists dressing in the same way as ordinary Muslims do.

As have countless others but we don't all decide to generate a bigoted opinion of every Muslim alive.

So no, I won't forgive them for their ignorance. Especially not when they likely have access to education.

[dave_boo]

Airline hijacking stats for you

http://en.wikipedia....raft_hijackings

Would seem the last incident was January, although there was actually no bomb.

So let's say 150 days x 80,000 flights a day = 12,000,000

That's 12 million flights have gone without incident. Do you not think these odds are still rather remote?

That's as silly as asking if you'd stand in front of a GAU-8 for 48 minutes whilst it is spinning and there may be one PGU-14 round (a 425 g round traveling over 1000 m/s) dropped into it...

Edited May 8, 2011 by dave_boo

[Moonrakers]

Airline hijacking stats for you

http://en.wikipedia....raft_hijackings

Would seem the last incident was January, although there was actually no bomb.

So let's say 150 days x 80,000 flights a day = 12,000,000

That's 12 million flights have gone without incident. Do you not think these odds are still rather remote?

That's as silly as asking if you'd stand in front of a GAU-8 for 48 minutes whilst it is spinning and there may be one PGU-14 round (a 425 g round traveling over 1000 m/s) dropped into it...

You're going to have to explain the maths to me

[kuffki]

My stance from the beginning is that the people on the plane were extremely narrow minded and ignorant to object to certain passengers just because they are Muslim.

If how they are dressed is a deciding factor, then surely that just reinforces my opinion.

You would need to forgive the narrow minded people, their perceptions have been made up from what they have seen and that is terrorists being dressed same way when they issue threats and everything else along the lines.

So it is NOT people who should be accommodating Muslim Imams in USA but Muslim Imams should be accommodating people.

Just like Westerners have to respect Arab traditions when they are in Arab country, i do not see a reason why Arabs should not do the same when in USA.

Dress as a bum and go to Porche or Bentley dealership, unless you are a well known person, chances are you will be thrown out and police will be called.

Its called appropriate attire! Person does not go to black & white ball wearing bikini and expect to be treated "normally"

I too have seen terrorists dressing in the same way as ordinary Muslims do.

As have countless others but we don't all decide to generate a bigoted opinion of every Muslim alive.

So no, I won't forgive them for their ignorance. Especially not when they likely have access to education.

You are entitled to your opinion. What is bigoted is in the eyes of beholder.

PS. Would you dress and act gay in Arab country? being well aware of the tradition and would you hold the same opinion when you get arrested and beaten?

Would you consider them to be bigots for not accepting it, they also have access to education

PPS. First example was not the best, so lets make it more appropriate. Would you wear a huge cross on your neck on the outside when you in the Arab country? and would you consider them bigots for beating you? note not warning you but beating you

Edited May 8, 2011 by kuffki

[Moonrakers]

Would you wear a huge cross on your neck on the outside when you in the Arab country? and would you consider them bigots for beating you? note not warning you but beating you

Nope I would not wear a cross, because of the religion. Not out of respect for the religion, but because I wouldn't want to get hurt.

And yes, I would consider them bigoted if that happened.

Your point being?

Edited May 8, 2011 by Moonrakers

[kuffki]

Would you wear a huge cross on your neck on the outside when you in the Arab country? and would you consider them bigots for beating you? note not warning you but beating you

Nope I would wear a cross, because of the religion. Not out of respect for the religion, but because I wouldn't want to get hurt.

And yes, I would consider them bigoted if that happened.

Your point being?

You have just answered it. You would not wear a cross for fear of been beaten.

So Imams should also dress appropriately to avoid being categorized or thrown off the plane.

If you do not grasp this concept, i am sorry i can not think of a simpler way to put it.

Is there anyone you would not consider a bigot? besides yourself of course, as it seems anyone and everyone who does not follow your opinion is a bigot.

Pilot and people on the plane are bigots, Arabs in the Arab countries are bigots, seems you are the only educated one-just seems little odd.

[Moonrakers]

Would you wear a huge cross on your neck on the outside when you in the Arab country? and would you consider them bigots for beating you? note not warning you but beating you

Nope I would wear a cross, because of the religion. Not out of respect for the religion, but because I wouldn't want to get hurt.

And yes, I would consider them bigoted if that happened.

Your point being?

You have just answered it. You would not wear a cross for fear of been beaten.

So Imams should also dress appropriately to avoid being categorized or thrown off the plane.

If you do not grasp this concept, i am sorry i can not think of a simpler way to put it.

Is there anyone you would not consider a bigot? besides yourself of course, as it seems anyone and everyone who does not follow your opinion is a bigot.

Pilot and people on the plane are bigots, Arabs in the Arab countries are bigots, seems you are the only educated one-just seems little odd.

I'm saying that people intolerant of other people's beliefs are bigots. Because that is the very definition of bigotry.

Are you trying to suggest they would not be bigots if they were intolerant of a Muslim/Christian/Jedi/Whatever?

[Richb2004v2]

I've never met a muslim with a big beard who wasn't a complete fanatic. The addition of a bruised forehead adds to the effect. Given the choice I would prefer not to fly with fanatics from a group notorious for attempting to blow up planes every now and then. I've done it countless times and have yet to be blown up, but I'd still rather reduce the chance further by avoiding them.

[kuffki]

Would you wear a huge cross on your neck on the outside when you in the Arab country? and would you consider them bigots for beating you? note not warning you but beating you

Nope I would wear a cross, because of the religion. Not out of respect for the religion, but because I wouldn't want to get hurt.

And yes, I would consider them bigoted if that happened.

Your point being?

You have just answered it. You would not wear a cross for fear of been beaten.

So Imams should also dress appropriately to avoid being categorized or thrown off the plane.

If you do not grasp this concept, i am sorry i can not think of a simpler way to put it.

Is there anyone you would not consider a bigot? besides yourself of course, as it seems anyone and everyone who does not follow your opinion is a bigot.

Pilot and people on the plane are bigots, Arabs in the Arab countries are bigots, seems you are the only educated one-just seems little odd.

I'm saying that people intolerant of other people's beliefs are bigots. Because that is the very definition of bigotry.

Are you trying to suggest they would not be bigots if they were intolerant of a Muslim/Christian/Jedi/Whatever?

Religious beliefs and dress attire are 2 very different things. How does one distinguish the difference between Jihadist and Imam? if both dress and look the same

How does one distinguish the difference between West loving and accepting Muslim and Islamist nut case who only wants to kill?

Give him a chance and get to know him while in midair? what happens if he turns out to be the Jihadist?

[Moonrakers]

What makes you think that all terrorists dress like terrorists?

If people are going to identify terrorists by the way they dress, then there's a huge flaw for the real terrorists to take advantage of. Don't you think.

In fact. Do you not think a terrorist would not do all they can to make themselves NOT look like a terrorist?

Edited May 8, 2011 by Moonrakers

[Moonrakers]

Anyway.

I'm going to watch a movie now

[kuffki]

What makes you think that all terrorists dress like terrorists?

If people are going to identify terrorists by the way they dress, then there's a huge flaw for the real terrorists to take advantage of. Don't you think.

In fact. Do you not think a terrorist would do all they can to make themselves NOT look like a terrorist?

Its irrelevant how terrorists dress, what is relevant which mind you, you failed to answer is that Imam's dress like Islamist Jihadist who hate USA, hate the West and preach nothing but hate and death.

Having simple respect for other people in the country is really not too much to ask for, unless of course they are the ones who chose to be bigots and totally ignore country norms.

People have developed this stereotypes NOT from the fairy tale stories but from seeing what Jihadist do.

3000 people die on 9/11, and they dance around celebrate it. I am sure the families of those killed really appreciated it.

After 10 years, Bin Ladden has been killed, and they mourn his death.

and after seeing all that, tell me again why should people respect them or understand or accept?

PS. I never heard an Imam in any Western country using strong words to condemn all the terror, so why again i should be accommodating them?

Yes there are many muslims who are nice people, but they do not dress as Imams or Jihadist.

USA is NOT an Arab or Muslim country and they have to respect it and respect the people.

America does not close down for Ramadan. If they want respect from the people, they need to respect the people in return and again simple change in dress attire which mind you is NOT against the rules of Islam one step towards harmony, yet they chose to dress how they want and when singled out, they complain.

[koheesti]

Everyone arguing about whether all this airline security is needed or not. I wonder if those who think it ridiculous to be concerned about being a statistically irrelevant victim of a hijacking/bombing would feel comfortable boarding a flight to American from Heathrow or Amsterdam if there was no security checks at all for the passengers? I'm sure the answer here to a hypothetical would be "yes" - but "no" if in reality they ever found themselves in that situation.

[EnSvenskTiger]

Is i OK to refuse to take US ciizens aboard beacuse the attract revenge from Jihads?

I will try this next week.

TTTTiger

[Moonrakers]

Kuffki.

You went from they are a risk because they are terrorists to it's OK, they just need to dress differently. Now you are going back to the same old rhetoric you were spouting before. This is going in circles now, this is where I can no longer be bothered.

Koheesti.

I don't think a single person has argued against the need for airport security once in this thread!

[bonobo]

Sorry, but I can't agree with the pilots' actions if it all went down as reported in the article.

If these men went through all the security checks, then they should have been allowed to fly. The US is a free country where freedom of religion is a basic right.

The general public is generally afraid of young black men with lots of bling and young white men with shaved heads and tattoos. (This is backed up by several studies.) So do we start banning them from flights, too? None of them has recently tried to blow up a plane, true, but many men of this demographic do violence every day.

If we continue to spiral into demonizing all things Islam, we will push many more Muslims into the camp where they believe Islam is under attack by the West and become soldiers against us.

Actually there is no 'freedom of religion'. The actual bill states that the government can "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". Notice there is no provision in there that everybody in the US has to respect your religion.

And how is the prohibition of free exercise of religion not "freedom of religion?" And what does respect for a religion have to do with this?

Actually not demonizing all things Islam is political correctness run amuck. How can it be established that Islam is afforded a protected status from ridicule or questioning? Is it the violence? Should the US not have attacked the Japanese Navy (almost Goodwin'd the whole thread!) because it may have made the Japanese 'on the fence' decide we really were evil?

If I started a religion that stated that everyone that followed it were a special people who lived by special rules and everyone else had to acquiese to those rules or we'd kill them would you support my right to that religion?

I would not support the killing, so this is a pretty specious argument. We, as in Westerners, have fought more wars over the last 500 years against other Christians, the predominant religion in the West. So should we treat other Christians the same? And your argument on the Japanese Navy is frankly ludicrous. The Japanese Navy attacked the US. So it was a target. A better example would be how we treated the Japanese Americans after that attack. If you believe their internment and confiscation of their property was right, then maybe you can argue that treating Muslims who are not breaking any laws like this is also right.

I detest the radical Islamists who use Islam as an excuse for their actions, and I don't like the Salafists' doctrine. But that is a long way from treating all Muslims like criminals.

[Steely Dan]

What makes you think that all terrorists dress like terrorists?

If people are going to identify terrorists by the way they dress, then there's a huge flaw for the real terrorists to take advantage of. Don't you think.

In fact. Do you not think a terrorist would not do all they can to make themselves NOT look like a terrorist?

Wearing suits with trainers is a big warning sign imho.

[kuffki]

You mean you can not be bothered because you can not answer even 1 reasonable question I put to you?

Please show me where I said they are all terrorists???

And please be kind enough to educate me how to distinguish imam and jihadist when both dress the same?

In all your arguments you have claimed to be educated, so please educate me.

Kuffki.

You went from they are a risk because they are terrorists to it's OK, they just need to dress differently. Now you are going back to the same old rhetoric you were spouting before. This is going in circles now, this is where I can no longer be bothered.

Koheesti.

I don't think a single person has argued against the need for airport security once in this thread!

[Ulysses G.]

I'm saying that people intolerant of other people's beliefs are bigots. Because that is the very definition of bigotry.

Why the red herring? No one cares about their religion as long as it is practiced peacefully. The "intolerence" is about radical Muslims who purposely target innocent men, women and children for terrible deaths in order to make political gains.

[dave_boo]

Airline hijacking stats for you

http://en.wikipedia....raft_hijackings

Would seem the last incident was January, although there was actually no bomb.

So let's say 150 days x 80,000 flights a day = 12,000,000

That's 12 million flights have gone without incident. Do you not think these odds are still rather remote?

That's as silly as asking if you'd stand in front of a GAU-8 for 48 minutes whilst it is spinning and there may be one PGU-14 round (a 425 g round traveling over 1000 m/s) dropped into it...

You're going to have to explain the maths to me

48 minutes is how long a GAU-8 would take to go through 12 000 000 rounds if you could sustain it.  The rounds are used for tank busters (meaning they'd vaporise a person standing in front of them).

[pomeloseed]

Google tells me that there are approx 27,000 flights, per day, in the US alone.

To my knowledge, the last time a bomb was found on a plane was 31 Oct 2010, lets call it 210 days. So, since the last time a bomb was found on a plane approx 5.8 million flights have occurred without a bomb in the U.S. alone. If we want think worldwide, we are talking ridiculous numbers.

And these people thought their plane was going to be bombed. What narrow minded idiots!

proof that inspections are rather effective - according to inspectors' stated goal: to ensure passenger safety. I don't like inspections any more than the next person, but I put up with the inconvenience. Because some ignorant @ssholes in the Middle east put explosives in their shoes, in their underpants, it's cause billions of added hours of inspections for decent members of humanity. Passengers have to get to the airport an hour earlier than prior to the time when destructive tactics became fashionable among fanatics. Look at any news report, any newspaper, and you'll see the headlines dominated by troubles in the Middle East. I hate to sound prejudiced (or do I?), but those fanatics really have to grow up and deal better with their self-amped anger/revenge/blood lust. Is there a pill to boost maturity? If so, let's ship tons of those pills to the Middle east. They should take to opium, that might calm them down a bit.

Approximately 6 million flights have occurred in the US alone since a bomb was last found on a plane, yet still people find these actions justified.

I'm not having this conversation, it's ridiculous.

Those 6 million or so flights were relatively safe because of the work of security personnel.

[Ulysses G.]

I don't think a single person has argued against the need for airport security once in this thread!

Only one.

Approximately 6 million flights have occurred in the US alone since a bomb was last found on a plane, yet still people find these actions justified.

I'm not having this conversation, it's ridiculous.

[Pakboong]

I wonder if individuals wearing yarmulkes should have been banned from flying British aircraft during the British Mandate of Palestine. After all, Irgun, Stern Gang, Haganah, etc... were terrorist groups who had used terror to kill British citizens.

[Ulysses G.]

I wonder if individuals wearing yarmulkes should have been banned from flying British aircraft during the British Mandate.

The King David Hotel was British Army Headquarters and the Brits were helping the Arabs at the time and had violated another agreement with the Jews. They were not targetting Brittish civilians.

Edited May 9, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[philw]

I wonder if individuals wearing yarmulkes should have been banned from flying British aircraft during the British Mandate of Palestine. After all, Irgun, Stern Gang, Haganah, etc... were terrorist groups who had used terror to kill British citizens.

Good point.

Perhaps also should include stereotypical Irish Catholic or priest returning from Boston with, possible funds or explosives, for the IRA.

Ideal terrorist garb.

Purely hypothetically, but what if a Muslim pilot on Thai International refused to carry 2 Rabbis or made them do a second security screening ??

Because he was suspicious of the way they dressed.

Would those who are on record as stating the captain has " absolute command " support this action ???

I think not.

Edited May 9, 2011 by philw

[kuffki]

I wonder if individuals wearing yarmulkes should have been banned from flying British aircraft during the British Mandate of Palestine. After all, Irgun, Stern Gang, Haganah, etc... were terrorist groups who had used terror to kill British citizens.

Good point.

Perhaps also should include stereotypical Irish Catholic or priest returning from Boston with, possible funds or explosives, for the IRA.

Ideal terrorist garb.

Purely hypothetically, but what if a Muslim pilot on Thai International refused to carry 2 Rabbis or made them do a second security screening ??

Because he was suspicious of the way they dressed.

Would those who are on record as stating the captain has " absolute command " support this action ???

I think not.

Speaking of vile comments

Ever seen a Rabbi blow himself up or threaten to blow others up? or perhaps hijack a plane? bomb bus or a train?

[JUDAS]

I'm saying that people intolerant of other people's beliefs are bigots. Because that is the very definition of bigotry.

Why the red herring? No one cares about their religion as long as it is practiced peacefully. The "intolerence" is about radical Muslims who purposely target innocent men, women and children for terrible deaths in order to make political gains.

Totally agree with your comment regarding radical Muslims. 'No one cares about their religion as long as it is practiced peacefully' this is clearly not the case here. At least one poster stating Muslims should expect different treatment if they identify themselves as members of that religion.

[Ulysses G.]

I think that most of us agree that peaceful Muslims should have the same freedoms as everyone else and that it is too bad that they are being inconvenienced because of the lunatic fringe.

[kuffki]

I think that most of us agree that peaceful Muslims should have the same freedoms as everyone else and that it is too bad that they are being inconvenienced because of the lunatic fringe.

Absolutely, but if the reason fails, then just blame the jews

[philw]

Speaking of vile comments

Ever seen a Rabbi blow himself up or threaten to blow others up? or perhaps hijack a plane? bomb bus or a train?

From the OP

"CHARLOTTE, NORTH CAROLINA (BNO NEWS) -- Two Muslim religious leaders were removed from an Atlantic Southeast Airlines flight on Friday after they were told the pilot refused to fly them.

Masudur Rahman and Mohamed Zaghloul were supposed to travel on Atlantic Southeast Airlines flight 5452 from Memphis, Tennessee to Charlotte, North Carolina on Friday morning. They were traveling to attend a conference of the North American Imam Federation to address prejudice against Muslims."

I ask you the same, have you ever seen an American Muslim Religious blow himself up on a domesticate flight in America ???

Thought not.

The point is that it is the nature ( and stupidity ) of the profiling that is "vile" not my comment per se.