Muslim men removed from U.S. flight after pilot refuses to fly them

[bonobo]

And your unbiased source is? Why not post a link?

I nearly always post links, just overlooked this one, so if it makes you happy (though I doubt it) here it is.

http://www.centerfor....org/p18663.xml

Okay. Brought you by the people who think Obama is a 'Muslim'.

So much for an unbiased source. Its a paper from an alarmist anti-islam propaganda central.

Anyway, lets look at the data. the 'study' is some half truth reporting, some selective picks from some FBI statistics. (and that is the only data source they use.)

http://www2.fbi.gov/...09/victims.html

The FBI puts what they called hate crimes into different categories.

- bias against a race.

- bias against a religious belief.

- bias against a particular sexual orientation.

- bias against an ethnicity/national origin.

- bias against a disability

the centerforsecuritypolicy now takes only the figures for hate crimes listed under "bias against a religious belief." But ignores other categories like "bias against an ethnicity/national origin."

Lets take two hypothetical hate crime victims. A kosher butcher shop in New York and a halal delicatessen & arab music tapes shop in Detroit.

Overnight both shop front got vandalized, windows smashed, hate slurs sprayed at the wall.

The kosher butcher is in the same street since 1912. It was opened by immigrants from Germany. the halal food and music tapes shop just opened recently, by the son of immigrants from Jordan. That makes him to someone what is in US America perceived as foreign ethnicity/national origin. as one of the others.An Asian.

So how likely is it now that the attack at the New York butcher shop ends up as Anti-Jewish in the bias against a religious belief category meanwhile the shop in Detroit will be filled under against an ethnicity/national origin. and not as Anti-Islamic?

There is a problem with these categories, it are just constructs and the boundaries between them overlap.

And how many of Anti-Jewish hate crimes are really bias against a religious belief and not just stupid dumb antisemtism. Hatred of their ethnic and cultural background or whatever issue the hater has with the Jew. In most cases its not about religion, they hate the people, they will also hate a secular Jew or a baptized convert.

But Anti-Jewish hate crimes might be still different to put in one of the categories above. the race category seems to be for Anti-White, Anti-Black, Anti-American Indian/Alaskan Native, Anti-Asian/Pacific Islander issues. And some might be offended if you label them as race.

Ethnicity/National Origin knows in detail only Anti-Hispanic and Anti-Other Ethnicity/National Origin. Some might be offended if you put them in the same category with the Hispanics and all others. Jews are integrated in the 'American life', they are 'one of us', speak our language, we don't think of them as the others. difficult to label them as of some foreign Ethnicity National Origin. or lets say to say that Jews are Asian.

So in doubt, Anti-Jewish must be Anti religious next to Anti-Catholic, Anti-Protestant, Anti-Islamic, Anti-Other Religion, Anti-Atheism/Agnosticism/etc.

I am not criticizing the work of the FBI, but the way how the agitprop team at centerforsecuritypolicy reads this data. Its a classic example of how to lie with statistics.

There seems to be also a higher public awareness about what is considered as hate crime and hate speech when it comes to antisemitism meanwhile when it comes to acts of Islamophobia some accept it as normal, a valid opinion and see nothing wrong with it.

Throwing pork sausages at Muslims seems to be for some people a party, fun pr defense of western civilisation. Try that in front of a synagogue and you will get arrested for hate crime.

OK, that explanation has some logic to it.

Do we have statistics on attacks on Muslims which are classified as other types of crimes instead of Anti-Islamic?

[Ulysses G.]

And your unbiased source is? Why not post a link?

I nearly always post links, just overlooked this one, so if it makes you happy (though I doubt it) here it is.

http://www.centerfor....org/p18663.xml

Okay. Brought you by the people who think Obama is a 'Muslim'.

So much for an unbiased source. Its a paper from an alarmist anti-islam propaganda central.

Would you like to provide some proof for either of these allegations? From looking at the link, it appears that these distortions assertions are the product of your vivid imagination and a way to ignore facts.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Steely Dan]

Yes just another unfortunate cultural misunderstanding like the bloke who tried to force open the cockpit door shouting Allahu Akbar, who was obviously confused and was looking for the bathroom.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1385083/Rageit-Almurisi-Family-defends-Yemeni-man-stormed-cockpit-San-Francisco-flight.html?ITO=1490

[bangkokeddy]

And your unbiased source is? Why not post a link?

I nearly always post links, just overlooked this one, so if it makes you happy (though I doubt it) here it is.

http://www.centerfor....org/p18663.xml

Okay. Brought you by the people who think Obama is a 'Muslim'.

So much for an unbiased source. Its a paper from an alarmist anti-islam propaganda central.

Would you like to provide some proof for either of these allegations? From looking at the link, it appears that these distortions assertions are the product of your vivid imagination and a way to ignore facts.

Frank J. Gaffney Jr., president of the Center for Security Policy in the Washington Times:

GAFFNEY: America’s first Muslim president?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jun/09/americas-first-muslim-president/print/

Where i see some basic flaws in that 'study' and its 'facts' i explained in detail. Just read my comment.

[Ulysses G.]

An article about Obama having a special interest in Muslims in no way proves either point.

During his White House years, William Jefferson Clinton -- someone Judge Sonia Sotomayor might call a "white male" -- was dubbed "America's first black president" by a black admirer. Applying the standard of identity politics and pandering to a special interest that earned Mr. Clinton that distinction, Barack Hussein Obama would have to be considered America's first Muslim president.

This is not to say, necessarily, that Mr. Obama actually is a Muslim any more than Mr. Clinton actually is black

[bangkokeddy]

Yes just another unfortunate cultural misunderstanding like the bloke who tried to force open the cockpit door shouting Allahu Akbar, who was obviously confused and was looking for the bathroom.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1385083/Rageit-Almurisi-Family-defends-Yemeni-man-stormed-cockpit-San-Francisco-flight.html?ITO=1490

LOL.

I like the 'witness' statements in the article:

Passengers on the flight have given terrifying accounts of how Almurisi was heard to shout 'Allahu Akbar' - or 'God is great' as he hammered the cockpit door.

One, Angelina Marty, said: 'I kept saying to myself, "What's he doing? Does he have a bomb? Is he armed?".'

Ms Marty, 35, said she and other passengers were stunned when Almurisi started walking down the aisle. She said a woman in a row across from her who speaks Arabic translated that he said 'God is Great'.

Andrew Wai, another passenger, told KGO-TV that the wife of one of the men who took Almurisi down later said Almurisi was yelling 'Allahu Akbar'.

OMG.

Edited May 11, 2011 by bangkokeddy

[Ulysses G.]

Just what is amusing about that.

[bangkokeddy]

An article about Obama having a special interest in Muslims in no way proves either point.

During his White House years, William Jefferson Clinton -- someone Judge Sonia Sotomayor might call a "white male" -- was dubbed "America's first black president" by a black admirer. Applying the standard of identity politics and pandering to a special interest that earned Mr. Clinton that distinction, Barack Hussein Obama would have to be considered America's first Muslim president.

This is not to say, necessarily, that Mr. Obama actually is a Muslim any more than Mr. Clinton actually is black

Did you read the article? It proves that Frank J. Gaffney Jr., president of the Center for Security Policy doesn't have some unbiased opinion when it comes to muslims and actually argues that Obama is one of them.

Gaffney is the

.. there is mounting evidence that the president not only identifies with Muslims, but actually may still be one himself. Consider the following indicators:

• Mr. Obama referred four times in his speech to "the Holy Koran." Non-Muslims -- even pandering ones -- generally don't use that Islamic formulation.

• Mr. Obama established his firsthand knowledge of Islam (albeit without mentioning his reported upbringing in the faith) with the statement, "I have known Islam on three continents before coming to the region where it was first revealed." Again, "revealed" is a depiction Muslims use to reflect their conviction that the Koran is the word of God, as dictated to Muhammad.

• Then the president made a statement no believing Christian -- certainly not one versed, as he professes to be, ...

read the rest of he argument at:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jun/09/americas-first-muslim-president/print/

[Steely Dan]

Short of the words 'Assume the brace position' I can't think of any words I'd less like to hear on a plane than 'Allahu Akbar' especially if uttered by a swarthy gentleman with a beard.

[bangkokeddy]

Just what is amusing about that.

How reliable are these witnesses?

The Miss, who needs a translater, who sat in a row across from her, for the words 'Allahu Akbar' and the other guy who told a TV station what he heard from the wife of a man who took the culprit down.

The guy probably said a lot of more things, in Arabic, nobody understands, so its not reported.

All what these small and simple minded people "understand" and "know" is Allahu Akbar. That makes them think they are expert on Arabs and terrorists.

[Steely Dan]

Frank J. Gaffney Jr., president of the Center for Security Policy in the Washington Times:

GAFFNEY: America’s first Muslim president?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jun/09/americas-first-muslim-president/print/

Where i see some basic flaws in that 'study' and its 'facts' i explained in detail. Just read my comment.

Before you take this down another of your blind alleys the fact remains there are far more racist attacks on Jews than Muslims in Europe and in spite of your desparate floundering to argue otherwise the situation is very likely the same in the U.S. Again if Europe is a guide many of the racist attacks on Jews are indeed by Muslims so though a shrill aggreved whine is probably in order in the case of the two Imans it certainly wasn't in the case of the confused bathroom goer or sundry Islamonazis whose hobby seens to be assaulting Jews and desecrating their graveyards whilst using any and every legal avenue at their disposal to complain about any perceived slight they may receive.

[bangkokeddy]

Short of the words 'Assume the brace position' I can't think of any words I'd less like to hear on a plane than 'Allahu Akbar' especially if uttered by a swarthy gentleman with a beard.

Try an airline of a Muslim country with swarthy people, Biman Bangladesh for example. There is that prayer part of the in-flight entertainment. Thats fun.

[bangkokeddy]

Frank J. Gaffney Jr., president of the Center for Security Policy in the Washington Times:

GAFFNEY: America’s first Muslim president?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jun/09/americas-first-muslim-president/print/

Where i see some basic flaws in that 'study' and its 'facts' i explained in detail. Just read my comment.

Before you take this down another of your blind alleys the fact remains there are far more racist attacks on Jews than Muslims in Europe and in spite of your desparate floundering to argue otherwise the situation is very likely the same in the U.S. Again if Europe is a guide many of the racist attacks on Jews are indeed by Muslims so though a shrill aggreved whine is probably in order in the case of the two Imans it certainly wasn't in the case of the confused bathroom goer or sundry Islamonazis whose hobby seens to be assaulting Jews and desecrating their graveyards whilst using any and every legal avenue at their disposal to complain about any perceived slight they may receive.

:jerk:

No, these two guys just wanted to take a plane like anyone else. No bombs, no attack of Jews, no Nazi slogans from them.

Bias and hatred comes in this case from the other side and its racist.

[Steely Dan]

Short of the words 'Assume the brace position' I can't think of any words I'd less like to hear on a plane than 'Allahu Akbar' especially if uttered by a swarthy gentleman with a beard.

Try an airline of a Muslim country with swarthy people, Biman Bangladesh for example. There is that prayer part of the in-flight entertainment. Thats fun.

As an atheist I think I'd derive limited fun from such a spectacle, though for the peace of mind of the faithful I say fair enough. Do they also slaughter a goat prior to take off to ensure a safe landing?

[bangkokeddy]

Short of the words 'Assume the brace position' I can't think of any words I'd less like to hear on a plane than 'Allahu Akbar' especially if uttered by a swarthy gentleman with a beard.

Try an airline of a Muslim country with swarthy people, Biman Bangladesh for example. There is that prayer part of the in-flight entertainment. Thats fun.

As an atheist I think I'd derive limited fun from such a spectacle, though for the peace of mind of the faithful I say fair enough. Do they also slaughter a goat prior to take off to ensure a safe landing?

I don't know something about goat slaughtering before take off. You are the cultural expert when it comes to Muslims.

[beechguy]

Just what is amusing about that.

How reliable are these witnesses?

The Miss, who needs a translater, who sat in a row across from her, for the words 'Allahu Akbar' and the other guy who told a TV station what he heard from the wife of a man who took the culprit down.

The guy probably said a lot of more things, in Arabic, nobody understands, so its not reported.

All what these small and simple minded people "understand" and "know" is Allahu Akbar. That makes them think they are expert on Arabs and terrorists.

How much of an expert do you need to be, when some asshol_e is trying to open the door at altitude?

[bangkokeddy]

Just what is amusing about that.

How reliable are these witnesses?

The Miss, who needs a translater, who sat in a row across from her, for the words 'Allahu Akbar' and the other guy who told a TV station what he heard from the wife of a man who took the culprit down.

The guy probably said a lot of more things, in Arabic, nobody understands, so its not reported.

All what these small and simple minded people "understand" and "know" is Allahu Akbar. That makes them think they are expert on Arabs and terrorists.

How much of an expert do you need to be, when some asshol_e is trying to open the door at altitude?

OMG. the experts ...

Did you read the article? It covers more than one incidents.

One, was about a guy pounding at the cockpit door who said 'Allahu Akbar' according to a lady across the aisle who understands Arabic and the man who heard it from the wife of another man.

The dude at the door handle was in another plane. He is described just as a 'burly' person and was tackled down by Mr. Harris, Vietnam veteran and martial arts expert.

No information about 'Allahu Akbar' here. but some other words were reported.

Mr Harris added: 'I asked him, 'What in the hell were you doing? What were you thinking?' He said, 'Well, it's Mother's Day'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1385083/Rageit-Almurisi-Family-defends-Yemeni-man-stormed-cockpit-San-Francisco-flight.html?ITO=1490

[Steely Dan]

OMG. the experts ...

Did you read the article? It covers more than one incidents.

One, was about a guy pounding at the cockpit door who said 'Allahu Akbar' according to a lady across the aisle who understands Arabic and the man who heard it from the wife of another man.

The dude at the door handle was in another plane. He is described just as a 'burly' person and was tackled down by Mr. Harris, Vietnam veteran and martial arts expert.

No information about 'Allahu Akbar' here. but some other words were reported.

Mr Harris added: 'I asked him, 'What in the hell were you doing? What were you thinking?' He said, 'Well, it's Mother's Day'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1385083/Rageit-Almurisi-Family-defends-Yemeni-man-stormed-cockpit-San-Francisco-flight.html?ITO=1490

When it comes to pig headed contrarianism which would even make a debating society blush you are indeed the king. :jap:

To use your own words, did you actually read the article?

His family did admit that in September last year his uncle Jamal Almoraissi, who lives in Vallejo, was interviewed by federal authorities over an alleged ‘dry run’ of a terrorist attack.

Hezam al-Murisi, one of their distant cousins, was arrested in Amsterdam on his way Yemen, when police found what appeared to be suspicious items inside his travelling companion's suitcase.

They were held but released two days later due to lack of evidence. ‘That was a mistake, a complete misunderstanding'

There is a serious point to this however and it does come as manna from heaven in it's timing. With the benefit of hindsight (given available evidence) it was probably wrong to pull the Imans off the flight, but again with hindsight the background of this man made him a risk and he should not have been allowed to fly.

What if he had been refused entry to the plane? Well you can be dam_n sure a lawsuit would have followed with CAIR falling over backwards to arrange litigation whilst crying victimisation. Perhaps the passengers on the plane should sue the airport security for not doing their job with some no doubt woken from their slumbers by shouts of 'Allahu Akbar' whilst witnessing a scuffle taking place by the cockpit door. Now there's a thought.

[mca]

'What I did was I just jumped on him,I wrapped my legs around him, I put my 210 pounds of weight on his neck and he still wouldn't go down

I'd struggle as well if some 60 year old Vietnam vet was trying to force me to give him a blowjob.

[bangkokeddy]

When it comes to pig headed contrarianism which would even make a debating society blush you are indeed the king. :jap:

To use your own words, did you actually read the article?

His family did admit that in September last year his uncle Jamal Almoraissi, who lives in Vallejo, was interviewed by federal authorities over an alleged ‘dry run’ of a terrorist attack.

Hezam al-Murisi, one of their distant cousins, was arrested in Amsterdam on his way Yemen, when police found what appeared to be suspicious items inside his travelling companion's suitcase.

They were held but released two days later due to lack of evidence. ‘That was a mistake, a complete misunderstanding'

And?

Read the article? His relatives aren't terrorists. So what is your point?

More paranoia, bias and prejudice?

And even if some distant cousin were a real terrorist. Ban the entire family and kin from flying and/or arrest them all?

Edited May 11, 2011 by bangkokeddy

[sarahsbloke]

Should someone dressed as a Nazi stormtrooper be allowed to board an aircraft?

Would anyone complain about his rights if he were refused the flight?

Just a thought

[Steely Dan]

Should someone dressed as a Nazi stormtrooper be allowed to board an aircraft?

Would anyone complain about his rights if he were refused the flight?

Just a thought

Good point. In order not to appear xenophobic I wonder whether Indonesian carriers are happy to fly chaps from PNG around the archepelago.

Cue, Eddie.

[luckizuchinni]

Should someone dressed as a Nazi stormtrooper be allowed to board an aircraft?

Would anyone complain about his rights if he were refused the flight?

Just a thought

Good point. In order not to appear xenophobic I wonder whether Indonesian carriers are happy to fly chaps from PNG around the archepelago.

Cue, Eddie.

I got on a flight in Dubai where three guys were dressed as some sort of African Tribal members. They wore very little with loin cloths, jewelry, a sort of animal-skin shawl, and not much else.

Some kids seemed fascinated, but not too many adults did more than give them a cursory glance.

[koheesti]

xx

Edited May 11, 2011 by koheesti

[endure]

'What I did was I just jumped on him,I wrapped my legs around him, I put my 210 pounds of weight on his neck and he still wouldn't go down

I'd struggle as well if some 60 year old Vietnam vet was trying to force me to give him a blowjob.

[bangkokeddy]

Should someone dressed as a Nazi stormtrooper be allowed to board an aircraft?

Would anyone complain about his rights if he were refused the flight?

Just a thought

Nazi stormtrooper?

You talking about who? The pilot or the other passengers who wanted the Jews Muslim men out of the plane?

Its not a dress that makes someone to a 'Nazi' but his thoughts and his actions.

[Ulysses G.]

You talking about who? The pilot or the other passengers who wanted the Jews Muslim men out of the plane?

Its not a dress that makes someone to a 'Nazi' but his thoughts and his actions.

Of really? Why would someone go out of the way to include Jews in a thread that has nothing to do with them.

[bangkokeddy]

'What I did was I just jumped on him,I wrapped my legs around him, I put my 210 pounds of weight on his neck and he still wouldn't go down

I'd struggle as well if some 60 year old Vietnam vet was trying to force me to give him a blowjob.

The same thing came to my mind, but if I would say it a shitstorm would start how anti-American and anti-Western i am and that i support Charlie & The Terrorists.

[Ulysses G.]

If the shoe fits...

[bangkokeddy]

You talking about who? The pilot or the other passengers who wanted the Jews Muslim men out of the plane?

Its not a dress that makes someone to a 'Nazi' but his thoughts and his actions.

Of really? Why would someone go out of the way to include Jews in a thread that has nothing to do with them.

Because the Nazis would probably not allow Jews on a plane and refuse to fly them. Or why someone include Nazi stormtroopers in a thread that has nothing to do with them.