Bin Laden says America 'will not dream of security' until Palestine has security

[Steely Dan]

Don't kid yourself. Islamic terrorism is linked to intolerance of both Christians and Jews.

You can include intolerance of Hindus as well.

And Buddhists, not to mention atheists too.

[Ulysses G.]

funny for you two posters to be talking about making justifications or being apologist....considering your posting history...

Pot, Kettle, Black.

Hardly.............

That one cries foul on their own governments immoral actions does not equate to cheer leading for either side.

I'm not sure that trying to prevent attacks by Bin Ladin, al Qaeda, Gadafi, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hezbollah, and Hamas are "immoral actions" to most people.

[flying]

Hardly.............

That one cries foul on their own governments immoral actions does not equate to cheer leading for either side.

I'm not sure that trying to prevent attacks by Bin Ladin, al Qaeda, Gadafi, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hezbollah, and Hamas are "immoral actions" to most people.

Guess you would have to ask the families of the deceased collateral damages

Aside from which all this supposed policing does is increase the hatred towards the US

Poll after poll has shown the majority of American Citizens do not support the war policing action

[Jingthing]

Don't kid yourself. Islamic terrorism is linked to intolerance of both Christians and Jews.

You can include intolerance of Hindus as well.

I am not clear on that. Point to some radical Islamic terrorist rhetoric/attacks on Hindus, OK?

In India, I suppose, but the big attack in Mumbai was targeted at western (presumably mostly Christian) people and also the Jewish center. Also keep in mind the Koranic texts used to justify their fanatacism specifically talk about Christians and Jews.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Jingthing

[Huey]

They just arn't worth the drama they bring.

Antisemites aren't worth the drama they bring.

Seriously, dude, do you realize you come off as a racist?

Firstly, my beef is with israel, I don't like the entitie's policies and actions. Furthermore I think they are cancerous for my country (the USA) as whole.

Secondly I don't have a problem with any one individual race. I said it before I like Arabs just fine, how could I then be anti-semetic?

Thirdly, I don't have a problem with most religions. I think all of the Abrehamic religions have some distasteful elements in them, and they all share periods of brutality and violence in the name of their god, but all equally so. And no I don't think being a religion makes you a race, I don't care what any dusty old scroll says.

Anyway, to discuss these things in a written forum is always more tiresome than doing so in person. So thats it for me on this until I catch ya at the next meet up.

**Quick Edit**

I just had to mention this. It goes with my statement of thouse Abrehiamic faiths being equally distasteful. and israel being cancerous for the US. Check out this American Jewish paper ( that photo-shopped out the women Hillary Clinton and another, from the command room during the Bin Ladin operation Why? Because they were women and should not be seen in such a prestigious situation together with men. Talk about backwards...some one said it earlier was it you Ulysses? "Pot, Kettle, Black"

Edited May 10, 2011 by Huey

[Jingthing]

Huey, I am telling you the truth here, and you can accept it or not.

Your post which included

They just arn't worth the drama they bring (referring to Jews) sounds antisemitic. I can't imagine any Jew reading that and not thinking that.

I don't think you really care, but if you do, you shouldn't post that way.

Your statement about liking Arabs means you aren't antisemitic is just simply IGNORANT. The funny thing is I bet you know that and are just playing a game. The definition of antisemitism is specifically about Jews. It is not about Arabs at all. There is no argument about that, it is a word with a definition, you do not get to make up your own false definition of it. Yes I know you are parroting Helen Thomas in your games. She is a smart woman but on this point she is being IGNORANT, just like you.

BTW, if you honestly want to represent antisemitism on this board (you're not alone), well, go ahead and expose yourself. But please don't try to act like that isn't what you are doing. That's sleazy.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Jingthing

[Huey]

Had a problem editing my last post, the news paper is The Brooklyn-based Der Zeitung and I probably can't post the link due to forum rules.

And Jing?

Helen who? Seriously? Call me what you will but my thoughts and words are my own.

[Jingthing]

Had a problem editing my last post, the news paper is The Brooklyn-based Der Zeitung and I probably can't post the link due to forum rules.

And Jing?

Helen who? Seriously? Call me what you will but my thoughts and words are my own.

Your so called "thoughts" regarding the definition of antisemitism are demonstrably, objectively, 100 percent, WRONG. If you want to play act with your own language with your own customized definitions, well, maybe that's amusing for you.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Jingthing

[koheesti]

Don't kid yourself. Islamic terrorism is linked to intolerance of both Christians and Jews.

You can include intolerance of Hindus as well.

I am not clear on that. Point to some radical Islamic terrorist rhetoric/attacks on Hindus, OK?

In India, I suppose, but the big attack in Mumbai was targeted at western (presumably mostly Christian) people and also the Jewish center. Also keep in mind the Koranic texts used to justify their fanatacism specifically talk about Christians and Jews.

Attacks in India.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Mulsim+attacks+Hindus&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&ie=&oe=

[Jingthing]

Yeah, good point about the Hindus and there was also the attacks on Buddhist symbols in Afghanistan. But as far as the Koranic text justifications, I still think the primary enemies are Christians and Jews.

[dave_boo]

Best we get Palestine sorted out rather quickly then. The scores of terror attacks the West has recieved is all in the name of occupied arab land. Whether it is Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Iraq etc etc.

Lets get out and leave them and Israel [the core problematic country] to it and hopefully they will leave us all alone. It really isn't too much to ask actually.

If you replace Arab with Muslim then the whole world is occupied land in the eyes of Islamic supremacists - Just ask those in Kashmir, Southern Thailand, East Timor or Sudan. In this we are all Spartacus Israel and it is moral cowardice to delude oneself into thinking the demands would stop if Israel ceased to exist.

Guess most people have never heard of Dar-al-Islam and Dar-al-Harb....

[koheesti]

Yeah, good point about the Hindus and there was also the attacks on Buddhist symbols in Afghanistan. But as far as the Koranic text justifications, I still think the primary enemies are Christians and Jews.

The Koran also says nothing about Britian and China, does it? The point I'm making, is that the Koran is about the people and religions they had contact with in their region. Obviously, since it was written 1400 years ago its followers have expanded the original list of enemies.

[Jingthing]

I still think Bin Laden's rhetoric was against Christians and Jews. I am not contesting Islamic violence against other groups as well.

[koheesti]

I still think Bin Laden's rhetoric was against Christians and Jews. I am not contesting Islamic violence against other groups as well.

Bin Laden started to include Hindus in his rhetoric 5 years ago...

http://www.southasia...Cpaper1776.html

BIN LADEN TARGETS INDIA

2. In the latest audio message attributed to bin Laden, which was broadcast by the Al Jazeera TV channel on April 23,2006, he has for the first time made direct references to India and the Kashmir issue and spoken of an alleged Crusader-Zionist-Hindu conspiracy against the Muslims. He makes the first reference to " a Crusader-Zionist-Hindu war against the Muslims" while talking of the alleged Western conspiracy to deprive Indonesia of East Timor. It is not clear why he refers to India in connection with the separation of East Timor from Indonesia. He then says: "Meanwhile, a UN resolution passed more than half a century ago gave Muslim Kashmir the liberty of choosing independence from India. George Bush, the leader of the Crusaders' campaign, announced a few days ago that he will order his converted agent [Pakistan President Pervez] Musharraf to shut down the Kashmir mujahidin camps, thus affirming that it is a Zionist-Hindu war against Muslims."

Edited May 10, 2011 by koheesti

[Jingthing]

OK, thanks. I suppose he was an equal opportunity hater then.

[Naam]

Don't kid yourself. Islamic terrorism is linked to intolerance of both Christians and Jews.

You can include intolerance of Hindus as well.

I am not clear on that. Point to some radical Islamic terrorist rhetoric/attacks on Hindus, OK?

In India, I suppose, but the big attack in Mumbai was targeted at western (presumably mostly Christian) people and also the Jewish center. Also keep in mind the Koranic texts used to justify their fanatacism specifically talk about Christians and Jews.

"intolerance of Hindus" = rubbish! inform yourself about Kashmir.

"qr'anic text... fanatacism Christian and Jews" = more rubbish! get some basic education. perhaps by googling keywords "Qr'an and People of the Book".

this lesson is as usual free of charge

[Naam]

some qr'anic statements on "People of the Book"

And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is One, and to Him do we submit. [Qur'an 29:46]

Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Scripture stand for the right, they recite the Verses of God during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin Al-Ma'rûf and forbid Al-Munkar ; and they hasten in (all) good works; and they are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for God knows well those who are Al-Muttaqûn .(3:113-115)

And there are, certainly, among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), those who believe in God and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before God. They do not sell the Verses of God for a little price, for them is a reward with their Lord. Surely, God is Swift in account. '(3:199)'

Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve . [Qur'an 2:62]

Say (O Muhammad ): "O people of the Scripture : Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but God, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides God. [Qur'an 3:64]

[ianf]

Says?? If the tense here is correct, there are going to be some very red faced SEALs and a somewhat red faced Obama.

If Thaksin is unable to get back to Thailand after the election perhaps he can take on the position vacated by Bin Laden?

[koheesti]

Don't kid yourself. Islamic terrorism is linked to intolerance of both Christians and Jews.

You can include intolerance of Hindus as well.

I am not clear on that. Point to some radical Islamic terrorist rhetoric/attacks on Hindus, OK?

In India, I suppose, but the big attack in Mumbai was targeted at western (presumably mostly Christian) people and also the Jewish center. Also keep in mind the Koranic texts used to justify their fanatacism specifically talk about Christians and Jews.

"intolerance of Hindus" = rubbish! inform yourself about Kashmir.

"qr'anic text... fanatacism Christian and Jews" = more rubbish! get some basic education. perhaps by googling keywords "Qr'an and People of the Book".

this lesson is as usual free of charge

And worth every penny!

[Ulysses G.]

As usual!

[Ulysses G.]

Secondly I don't have a problem with any one individual race. I said it before I like Arabs just fine, how could I then be anti-semetic?

Oh, come on, too many of us have read your posts for too many years.

By the way, Jews and Arabs are different races, Semetic languages are the only thing that they have in common.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Steely Dan]

some qr'anic statements on "People of the Book"

And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is One, and to Him do we submit. [Qur'an 29:46]

Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Scripture stand for the right, they recite the Verses of God during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin Al-Ma'rûf and forbid Al-Munkar ; and they hasten in (all) good works; and they are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for God knows well those who are Al-Muttaqûn .(3:113-115)

And there are, certainly, among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), those who believe in God and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before God. They do not sell the Verses of God for a little price, for them is a reward with their Lord. Surely, God is Swift in account. '(3:199)'

Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve . [Qur'an 2:62]

Say (O Muhammad ): "O people of the Scripture : Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but God, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides God. [Qur'an 3:64]

Another Naam style smokescreen. So Naam do you believe the Meccan verses take precedence over the Medina verses, such belief could get you killed in certain parts of the world you seem to hold dear. Here are some more verses, but if want to argue religion of peace scripture I think you are on dodgy ground.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=216_1207467783

[dave_boo]

some qr'anic statements on "People of the Book"

And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is One, and to Him do we submit. [Qur'an 29:46]

Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Scripture stand for the right, they recite the Verses of God during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin Al-Ma'rûf and forbid Al-Munkar ; and they hasten in (all) good works; and they are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for God knows well those who are Al-Muttaqûn .(3:113-115)

And there are, certainly, among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), those who believe in God and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before God. They do not sell the Verses of God for a little price, for them is a reward with their Lord. Surely, God is Swift in account. '(3:199)'

Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve . [Qur'an 2:62]

Say (O Muhammad ): "O people of the Scripture : Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but God, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides God. [Qur'an 3:64]

And the Jews say: The Christians do not follow anything (good) and the Christians say: The Jews do not follow anything (good) while they recite the (same) Book. Even thus say those who have no knowledge, like to what they say; so Allah shall judge between them on the day of resurrection in what they differ

And the Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians until you follow their religion. Say: Surely Allah's guidance, that is the (true) guidance. And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you shall have no guardian from Allah, nor any helper.

(This is) the truth from your Lord, so be not of the disputers.

But whoever disputes with you in this matter after what has come to you of knowledge, then say: Come let us call our sons and your sons and our women and your women and our near people and your near people, then let us be earnest in prayer, and pray for the curse of Allah on the liars.

Most surely this is the true explanation, and there is no god but Allah; and most surely Allah-- He is the Mighty, the Wise.

But if they turn back, then surely Allah knows the mischief-makers.

Say: O followers of the Book! come to an equitable proposition between us and you that we shall not serve any but Allah and (that) we shall not associate aught with Him, and (that) some of us shall not take others for lords besides Allah; but if they turn back, then say: Bear witness that we are Muslims.

O followers of the Book! why do you dispute about Ibrahim, when the Taurat and the Injeel were not revealed till after him; do you not then understand?

Behold! you are they who disputed about that of which you had knowledge; why then do you dispute about that of which you have no knowledge? And Allah knows while you do not know.

And do not believe but in him who follows your religion. Say: Surely the (true) guidance is the guidance of Allah-- that one may be given (by Him) the like of what you were given; or they would contend with you by an argument before your Lord. Say: Surely grace is in the hand of Allah, He gives it to whom He pleases; and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing.

Of those who are Jews (there are those who) alter words from their places and say: We have heard and we disobey and: Hear, may you not be made to hear! and: Raina, distorting (the word) with their tongues and taunting about religion; and if they had said (instead): We have heard and we obey, and hearken, and unzurna it would have been better for them and more upright; but Allah has cursed them on account of their unbelief, so they do not believe but a little.

Wherefore for the iniquity of those who are Jews did We disallow to them the good things which had been made lawful for them and for their hindering many (people) from Allah's way.

O Messenger! let not those grieve you who strive together in hastening to unbelief from among those who say with their mouths: We believe, and their hearts do not believe, and from among those who are Jews; they are listeners for the sake of a lie, listeners for another people who have not come to you; they alter the words from their places, saying: If you are given this, take it, and if you are not given this, be cautious; and as for him whose temptation Allah desires, you cannot control anything for him with Allah. Those are they for whom Allah does not desire that He should purify their hearts; they shall have disgrace in this world, and they shall have a grievous chastisement in the hereafter.

And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up! Their hands shall be shackled and they shall be cursed for what they say. Nay, both His hands are spread out, He expends as He pleases; and what has been revealed to you from your Lord will certainly make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; and We have put enmity and hatred among them till the day of resurrection; whenever they kindle a fire for war Allah puts it out, and they strive to make mischief in the land; and Allah does not love the mischief-makers.

Certainly you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe (to be) the Jews and those who are polytheists, and you will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those who believe (to be) those who say: We are Christians; this is because there are priests and monks among them and because they do not behave proudly.

Quite a few quotations that contradict the supposed respect that is supposed to be extended from those few that get trotted out now and again...

[luckizuchinni]

America will not dream of living in security before we experience security in Palestine and not before all infidel armies have left the land of Muhammad,

Somewhat different from the "They hate us for our freedoms" rhetoric we so often hear as the reason for terrorism

"They hate us for our freedoms" = ridiculous! the Israel/Palestine problem is the root of most islamist terrorist activities.

Sorry, but I don't believe that is true. It is an excuse, a whipping boy. After Iraq was kicked out of Kuwait, only then did Saddam start espousing support for the Palestinians. Osama bin Laden started after the US only after troops were in Saudi. He never mentioned the Palestinians much before.

it wasn't until the Palestinian issue started gaining traction abroad that terrorists and other groups started jumping on the bandwagon. Before that, most of the Arab world, particularly, did not treat the Palestinians too well. They have always seemed to be the redheaded stepchildren.

[luckizuchinni]

America will not dream of living in security before we experience security in Palestine and not before all infidel armies have left the land of Muhammad,

Somewhat different from the "They hate us for our freedoms" rhetoric we so often hear as the reason for terrorism

"They hate us for our freedoms" = ridiculous! the Israel/Palestine problem is the root of most islamist terrorist activities.

because if he hated freedom in the West he couldn't have had his

Coke and Pepsi as well

" The grocery basket included extensive supplies of Pepsi and Coke - U.S. brands that have become the face of western commercialism that Bin Laden claimed to despise."

more like " the face of western commercialism that governments of certain countries claimed Bin Laden despised."

That reminds me of a quote which I think was made by al-Zawahiri. To paraphrase it as I don't have the exact quote, it went along the lines of "America, you are so evil, but your coca cola is so sweet."

[Ulysses G.]

After Iraq was kicked out of Kuwait, only then did Saddam start espousing support for the Palestinians. Osama bin Laden started after the US only after troops were in Saudi. He never mentioned the Palestinians much before.

it wasn't until the Palestinian issue started gaining traction abroad that terrorists and other groups started jumping on the bandwagon. Before that, most of the Arab world, particularly, did not treat the Palestinians too well. They have always seemed to be the redheaded stepchildren.

Exactly. The other Arabs use the "Palestinians" as pawns and always have.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[geriatrickid]

Are last week's attacks on Egyptian churches, two of which were set on fire, because of Israel too? A cynic would say that with Egypt being judenfrei, the next group on the list to slaughter and persecute are Christians. The Israelis are the canary in the coal mine for the west. There will be those that don't want to watch the canary and that will blame the canary when it dies or that will come up with convoluted reasons for the canary's death, rather than accept that a poisonous cloud is on the horizon.

[kuffki]

Don't kid yourself. Islamic terrorism is linked to intolerance of both Christians and Jews.

You can include intolerance of Hindus as well.

I am not clear on that. Point to some radical Islamic terrorist rhetoric/attacks on Hindus, OK?

In India, I suppose, but the big attack in Mumbai was targeted at western (presumably mostly Christian) people and also the Jewish center. Also keep in mind the Koranic texts used to justify their fanatacism specifically talk about Christians and Jews.

"intolerance of Hindus" = rubbish! inform yourself about Kashmir.

"qr'anic text... fanatacism Christian and Jews" = more rubbish! get some basic education. perhaps by googling keywords "Qr'an and People of the Book".

this lesson is as usual free of charge

I do not think its a wise idea to tell people to google Q"ran and people of the book, you may not like the results people will find.

This is what i found

Is Islam a Violent Faith? Violence, Hatred and Discrimination in the Koran.

Dr. Sami Alrabaa

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.2287/pub_detail.asp

[dave_boo]

After Iraq was kicked out of Kuwait, only then did Saddam start espousing support for the Palestinians. Osama bin Laden started after the US only after troops were in Saudi. He never mentioned the Palestinians much before.

it wasn't until the Palestinian issue started gaining traction abroad that terrorists and other groups started jumping on the bandwagon. Before that, most of the Arab world, particularly, did not treat the Palestinians too well. They have always seemed to be the redheaded stepchildren.

Exactly. The other Arabs use the "Palestinians" as pawns and always have.

Ask an Shiite what they think of 'Palestinians'.....occasionally useful idiots is the closest I can come to what the Iraqi Shiites think of them and still remain civil.

[bonobo]

After Iraq was kicked out of Kuwait, only then did Saddam start espousing support for the Palestinians. Osama bin Laden started after the US only after troops were in Saudi. He never mentioned the Palestinians much before.

it wasn't until the Palestinian issue started gaining traction abroad that terrorists and other groups started jumping on the bandwagon. Before that, most of the Arab world, particularly, did not treat the Palestinians too well. They have always seemed to be the redheaded stepchildren.

Exactly. The other Arabs use the "Palestinians" as pawns and always have.

Ask an Shiite what they think of 'Palestinians'.....occasionally useful idiots is the closest I can come to what the Iraqi Shiites think of them and still remain civil.

I have heard basically the same, but from both Iraqi Shiites and Sunnis.