Rubber Trees

[gregj69]

Hey Mosha,Just as a matter of interest.What's a rai of land worth down there in your area,if the paper is torbo 5 , also for chanort.?With rubber trees on it at cutting age or already being cut.Not if they are broke and really need money ,but just an average price.

Cheers Cobbler

P's' I have to go and dig 200 holes now ,we are getting 200 banana tree (small ) in beginning of September,.This gives me about 20 days to do it..My hands have blisters on blisters,Not to mention,I really got to eat more meat,.

A friend wants to sell, trees are between 8 and 5 years. 25 Rai either Tor bur 5 or Sor por kor 4. He went ballistic cos the wife turned down 1 million. They paid more than that. He's fed up, can't find an honest worker, and they are throwing more money at it than it gives. She bought about 5 tons of some organic feed, hoping to sell. From what I've seen of the harvest it's not that good except making the trees grow,

Just wondering where your friend's farm is? We are looking in Loie as that is where the family live.

Greg

[thaiguzzi]

And another thing - all this talk about the last govnt paying 180 baht per kilo, now only 90 baht, blah blah. <deleted>.You sound like some of the local Thais around here! This (Udon) is completely 99.5% red shirt country, yet they are saying Abhisit kept the prices high, Yingluck has let us down blah blah. I keep telling them its got nothing to do with the govnt that prices are shit (except perhaps the strong baht regarding foreign buyers). Its the WORLD ECONOMY - get it!! Back in my home country the UK, friends are telling me vehicle insurance is now so high, people are not using their cars anymore. Bicycling to work. 20% less traffic on the roads in some areas. New cars not selling Europewide like they used to - ITS THE ECONOMY! Banks not lending money, speculators ca'nt speculate - now's the time to buy rubber, it wo'nt get much cheaper, but nobody has got any money. It aint the fault of the current Thai govnt that the world is in a financial mess.

Peace and Love,

Mike.

[Mosha]

Hey Mosha,Just as a matter of interest.What's a rai of land worth down there in your area,if the paper is torbo 5 , also for chanort.?With rubber trees on it at cutting age or already being cut.Not if they are broke and really need money ,but just an average price.

Cheers Cobbler

P's' I have to go and dig 200 holes now ,we are getting 200 banana tree (small ) in beginning of September,.This gives me about 20 days to do it..My hands have blisters on blisters,Not to mention,I really got to eat more meat,.

A friend wants to sell, trees are between 8 and 5 years. 25 Rai either Tor bur 5 or Sor por kor 4. He went ballistic cos the wife turned down 1 million. They paid more than that. He's fed up, can't find an honest worker, and they are throwing more money at it than it gives. She bought about 5 tons of some organic feed, hoping to sell. From what I've seen of the harvest it's not that good except making the trees grow,

Just wondering where your friend's farm is? We are looking in Loie as that is where the family live.

Greg

Way way south of you Greg, it's in Ranong, and it's sor por kor land.

[Mosha]

And another thing - all this talk about the last govnt paying 180 baht per kilo, now only 90 baht, blah blah. <deleted>.You sound like some of the local Thais around here! This (Udon) is completely 99.5% red shirt country, yet they are saying Abhisit kept the prices high, Yingluck has let us down blah blah. I keep telling them its got nothing to do with the govnt that prices are shit (except perhaps the strong baht regarding foreign buyers). Its the WORLD ECONOMY - get it!! Back in my home country the UK, friends are telling me vehicle insurance is now so high, people are not using their cars anymore. Bicycling to work. 20% less traffic on the roads in some areas. New cars not selling Europewide like they used to - ITS THE ECONOMY! Banks not lending money, speculators ca'nt speculate - now's the time to buy rubber, it wo'nt get much cheaper, but nobody has got any money. It aint the fault of the current Thai govnt that the world is in a financial mess.

Peace and Love,

Mike.

That's not the problem though Mike, the problem is knowing your RSS is good quality, and the government buyer giving a price to wet your lips. Then turning up with the said RSS and they tell you it's crap, and give a price of half what was quoted over the phone. The local private buyers are giving a better deal.

[jamescollister]

Hey Mosha,Just as a matter of interest.What's a rai of land worth down there in your area,if the paper is torbo 5 , also for chanort.?With rubber trees on it at cutting age or already being cut.Not if they are broke and really need money ,but just an average price.

Cheers Cobbler

P's' I have to go and dig 200 holes now ,we are getting 200 banana tree (small ) in beginning of September,.This gives me about 20 days to do it..My hands have blisters on blisters,Not to mention,I really got to eat more meat,.

A friend wants to sell, trees are between 8 and 5 years. 25 Rai either Tor bur 5 or Sor por kor 4. He went ballistic cos the wife turned down 1 million. They paid more than that. He's fed up, can't find an honest worker, and they are throwing more money at it than it gives. She bought about 5 tons of some organic feed, hoping to sell. From what I've seen of the harvest it's not that good except making the trees grow,

Just wondering where your friend's farm is? We are looking in Loie as that is where the family live.

Greg

Greg sent you a PM, don't think you will like it much.

My e mail is in my profile. Jim

[gregj69]

Just wondering if anyone is clued up on the BOI incentives for rubber production. The way I interpret it, if you are in zone 3, which is most of Isaan they give you

1/ Zero duty on machinery and equipment from overseas.

2/ up to 8 years corporate tax holiday if you are running as a company.

3/ 200% tax rebate on Electric, water and fuel costs.

4/ Permit to own land for executive of company (10 rai max)

5/ Other incidental things dependent on amount of investment.

They also say that the minimum investment is 1 million baht for these.

Any insights?

Greg

[thaiguzzi]

Mosha,

yes, can understand the current probs with sheet. That's the main reason why farmers up here are reluctant to do latex or dry cup. DRC %ages are not what they seem according to most sellers, hence up here it's only sheet or wet cup, and to be honest, if people are only getting 76 - 82 baht for sheet (max) and then hassles on the saleday, but getting 41 baht per kg for wet cup, no probs on govnt auction day, stick to cup till it gets better.

Regards,

Mike.

[glennb6]

Sold 1 ton of kee yesterday, factory price drc is 64b/kg. Local shop to us is again buying at 32b wet. I told wife she's getting no more money for this stinky game as we've made zero in the last month buying and selling kee. She finally relented to reason.

[jamescollister]

Sold 1 ton of kee yesterday, factory price drc is 64b/kg. Local shop to us is again buying at 32b wet. I told wife she's getting no more money for this stinky game as we've made zero in the last month buying and selling kee. She finally relented to reason.

Think us small players had better just sit back and watch. You need big money laying around to play in the speculating game.

I will be happy to just get through to when things pick up again. Jim

[thaiguzzi]

Glenn,

exactly my point. I doubt if that new factory near Udon would even pay 64 baht/kilo for DRC dry cup, but people are getting 41 baht/kilo for wet cup at auction, and with no hassle, and no made up stories/ DRC %ages etc.

Regards,

Mike.

[jamescollister]

Glenn,

exactly my point. I doubt if that new factory near Udon would even pay 64 baht/kilo for DRC dry cup, but people are getting 41 baht/kilo for wet cup at auction, and with no hassle, and no made up stories/ DRC %ages etc.

Regards,

Mike.

Thaiguzzi, there is wet cup and there is wet cup, we sold some wet cup today 34 Baht a kilo. 24 hour old. It will dry over night and will lose weight, but will still be wet cup. The water content game is where the money is made. If you do or they do crepe, the wetter the better. Everyone is playing the percentage game and I have been buying for a few years now and I still have not mastered it. That's why we have closed up shop for now, a Baht here or there can make a difference from profit and lose. The big buyers are making Satangs per kilo, but are buying big. There is a lot to the game and if I knew the rules I would be a rich man. Jim

[cobbler]

Hey Mosha,Just as a matter of interest.What's a rai of land worth down there in your area,if the paper is torbo 5 , also for chanort.?With rubber trees on it at cutting age or already being cut.Not if they are broke and really need money ,but just an average price.

Cheers Cobbler

P's' I have to go and dig 200 holes now ,we are getting 200 banana tree (small ) in beginning of September,.This gives me about 20 days to do it..My hands have blisters on blisters,Not to mention,I really got to eat more meat,.

A friend wants to sell, trees are between 8 and 5 years. 25 Rai either Tor bur 5 or Sor por kor 4. He went ballistic cos the wife turned down 1 million. They paid more than that. He's fed up, can't find an honest worker, and they are throwing more money at it than it gives. She bought about 5 tons of some organic feed, hoping to sell. From what I've seen of the harvest it's not that good except making the trees grow,

Just wondering where your friend's farm is? We are looking in Loie as that is where the family live.

Greg

Thanks for the message Mosha.Our internet has been not good for 3 or 4 days due to storms.We are selling 1 of our farms as we want to buy 1 closer to our home farm.24 rai ,trees are producing 30kgs per day of sheet rubber and will increase with age yet.Last season closed 22nd of February,opening again on 20th of April. .Has an extra 4 rai at back of this 24 rai also ready to put another 290 trees on.2.7 million baht.Has 2 brand new mat making machines on it ,electric and living quarters for workers.Also has a dam fed by a spring so never goes dry.

Paper is torbo 5 .

Edited September 1, 2012 by cobbler

[Mosha]

I was wondering where you had got to. Dam big enough to fish?

[how241]

Hey Mosha,Just as a matter of interest.What's a rai of land worth down there in your area,if the paper is torbo 5 , also for chanort.?With rubber trees on it at cutting age or already being cut.Not if they are broke and really need money ,but just an average price.

Cheers Cobbler

P's' I have to go and dig 200 holes now ,we are getting 200 banana tree (small ) in beginning of September,.This gives me about 20 days to do it..My hands have blisters on blisters,Not to mention,I really got to eat more meat,.

A friend wants to sell, trees are between 8 and 5 years. 25 Rai either Tor bur 5 or Sor por kor 4. He went ballistic cos the wife turned down 1 million. They paid more than that. He's fed up, can't find an honest worker, and they are throwing more money at it than it gives. She bought about 5 tons of some organic feed, hoping to sell. From what I've seen of the harvest it's not that good except making the trees grow,

Just wondering where your friend's farm is? We are looking in Loie as that is where the family live.

Greg

Thanks for the message Mosha.Our internet has been not good for 3 or 4 days due to storms.We are selling 1 of our farms as we want to buy 1 closer to our home farm.24 rai ,trees are producing 30kgs per day of sheet rubber and will increase with age yet.Last season closed 22nd of February,opening again on 20th of April. .Has an extra 4 rai at back of this 24 rai also ready to put another 290 trees on.2.7 million baht.Has 2 brand new mat making machines on it ,electric and living quarters for workers.Also has a dam fed by a spring so never goes dry.

Paper is torbo 5 .

What is the Torbo 5 paper ?? Here is a lawyers link showing the different types of Thai land ownership papers but I don't see the 'Torbo 5".

http://www.integrity-legal.com/real-estate-thailand/title-opinion.html

[Mosha]

Por Tor Bor Ha http://www.doingbusi...tor-bor-ha.html

A nominal rent/tax is payed annually.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Mosha

[thaiguzzi]

Jim,

thats why the govnt auctions are per fortnight. When they hand out the dates for the forthcoming cutting season in april, there is a seperate entry for how many nights (meet) they expect you can cut in that fortnight, generally 9. They do'nt want to buy 2-3 night's worth of cutting, too wet, has'nt sat in the cup long enough. Also, as i've mentioned before, wet cup is delivered the day before it is weighed, again to get moisture content down. The buyers do'nt like soft, squidgy cup, they like hard, firm cup. A bit like how we like our tits.

Regards,

Mike.

[Mosha]

Jim,

thats why the govnt auctions are per fortnight. When they hand out the dates for the forthcoming cutting season in april, there is a seperate entry for how many nights (meet) they expect you can cut in that fortnight, generally 9. They do'nt want to buy 2-3 night's worth of cutting, too wet, has'nt sat in the cup long enough. Also, as i've mentioned before, wet cup is delivered the day before it is weighed, again to get moisture content down. The buyers do'nt like soft, squidgy cup, they like hard, firm cup. A bit like how we like our tits.

Regards,

Mike.

It's always wet down here, oops sorry that's the weather

[jamescollister]

Jim,

thats why the govnt auctions are per fortnight. When they hand out the dates for the forthcoming cutting season in april, there is a seperate entry for how many nights (meet) they expect you can cut in that fortnight, generally 9. They do'nt want to buy 2-3 night's worth of cutting, too wet, has'nt sat in the cup long enough. Also, as i've mentioned before, wet cup is delivered the day before it is weighed, again to get moisture content down. The buyers do'nt like soft, squidgy cup, they like hard, firm cup. A bit like how we like our tits.

Regards,

Mike.

Understand want you are saying and how the Gov, buyers work. We are sheet makers, but this time of year, just too much rain. So we put acid in the cup before tapping, this congeals the rubber overnight. The next day the cup is solid enough to handle. It is very wet and clean, this we sell to the crepe buyers. On a price per DRC you usually get more for crepe rubber than dry or dryer cup. Though sometimes not, all depends on the demand at the time.

Everyone is playing the margins game and as many a private buyer round here has found out to his loss, small errors in judging water content and price will send the buyer broke. Jim

[cobbler]

I was wondering where you had got to. Dam big enough to fish?

Yes ,workers have fish in it

[thaiguzzi]

Jim,

never heard that before - putting formic in BEFORE tapping. I understood that the panel does'nt even like the smell of the stuff, the drips start slowing as soon as the formic is around, and generally wo'nt produce as much per cut. Up here, everyone who does wet cup; cuts/ waits (in an ideal situation ie it aint gonna pour down soon) till the cut has stopped "bleeding"/ pours in the mixed formic (not sulphuric) and swills/stirs around. I do it myself on the 500 trees the missus cuts to help her out. By the time i've done 3 trees, the first is pretty much congealed and does'nt even move, even turned upside down. I know others (Thai smallholders) who will put in a weak mix or so much, that it takes an hour to go off, but they trying to get their water content right up and diddle the buyers.

A couple of the bigger landowners around here have said they are going over to sheet next month once the rains have cleared, these are people who can afford to keep it a couple of months and hopefully sell at a higher price later. Their tappers are also fortunate enough to be able to hang on and wait for the money.

Unlike me at the moment, i need it fortnightly or at worst, monthly

Regards,

Mike.

[jamescollister]

Jim,

never heard that before - putting formic in BEFORE tapping. I understood that the panel does'nt even like the smell of the stuff, the drips start slowing as soon as the formic is around, and generally wo'nt produce as much per cut. Up here, everyone who does wet cup; cuts/ waits (in an ideal situation ie it aint gonna pour down soon) till the cut has stopped "bleeding"/ pours in the mixed formic (not sulphuric) and swills/stirs around. I do it myself on the 500 trees the missus cuts to help her out. By the time i've done 3 trees, the first is pretty much congealed and does'nt even move, even turned upside down. I know others (Thai smallholders) who will put in a weak mix or so much, that it takes an hour to go off, but they trying to get their water content right up and diddle the buyers.

A couple of the bigger landowners around here have said they are going over to sheet next month once the rains have cleared, these are people who can afford to keep it a couple of months and hopefully sell at a higher price later. Their tappers are also fortunate enough to be able to hang on and wait for the money.

Unlike me at the moment, i need it fortnightly or at worst, monthly

Regards,

Mike.

Jim,

never heard that before - putting formic in BEFORE tapping. I understood that the panel does'nt even like the smell of the stuff, the drips start slowing as soon as the formic is around, and generally wo'nt produce as much per cut. Up here, everyone who does wet cup; cuts/ waits (in an ideal situation ie it aint gonna pour down soon) till the cut has stopped "bleeding"/ pours in the mixed formic (not sulphuric) and swills/stirs around. I do it myself on the 500 trees the missus cuts to help her out. By the time i've done 3 trees, the first is pretty much congealed and does'nt even move, even turned upside down. I know others (Thai smallholders) who will put in a weak mix or so much, that it takes an hour to go off, but they trying to get their water content right up and diddle the buyers.

A couple of the bigger landowners around here have said they are going over to sheet next month once the rains have cleared, these are people who can afford to keep it a couple of months and hopefully sell at a higher price later. Their tappers are also fortunate enough to be able to hang on and wait for the money.

Unlike me at the moment, i need it fortnightly or at worst, monthly

Regards,

Mike.

Mike it rains every night round here at this time of year, If you wait for the tree to give up it.s rubber, you have a cup full of water. If you put some acid in the rubber will congeal at the bottom of the cup. You will never get the full out put, but you will get rubber.

My tappers and I need the income, I know of no other way to get the money in.

We are doing 1/2 cup and 1/2 sheet, the sheet is getting about 40 kilo a tap, where they should be getting near on 100 kilos. This time of year we live on the cup prices and hope that the sheet we keep will pay the bills for the none rubber times. Jim

[glennb6]

We'd started cutting in April and had used formic (Superman brand), which of course worked. Went to a local shop and bought something else on their recommendation when we ran out of formic. Shop said they use it on their 500 rai farm for may years so figure must be ok. I think it has a Tiger on the bottle, don't remember.

I looked at a bottle when gave to a worker, says something wife translates to nam-som, vinegar. Huh? Check for the spec sheet in the box-joking, called the the shop and they confirmed it's not formic/hcl/muratic but nam-som. Workers used it and said it's fine. Visited the shop few days later and owner poured some out of the bottle on her hands, look still have skin and hands! Hmph, would you look at dat...

What kinds of acid or vinegar do y'all use on your farms? tried different ones? We also have a 5 liter container of some sort of white powder, don't know if it's good stuff man but a different shop gave it to us as a puppy-dog trial. Haven't tried yet but is supposed to be 100% safe.

[glennb6]

ps, I which to thank Mike guzzi for the proper description of cup rubber as is fitting for any falang here.

a while back when buying kee I picked up two well rounded cup lumps in my hands and held them to my chest and gave them a squeeze smiling, as stupid humor works in our village, mostly the old ladies kackled in Lao, I had a stinky shirt and wife yelled something in Lao.....

[Mosha]

We use Nam Som, Glenn.

[Mosha]

I was wondering where you had got to. Dam big enough to fish?

Yes ,workers have fish in it

I'd be fishing every day if it was mine. Before we settled here, we looked at a place, with a house on that for a relatively small amount would fix up into a nice house. It had an 1/2 rai pond on. Boy was I tempted even though it was Sor Por Kor The land came with 30 Rai of rubber, then the Sister in law offered us 3 1/2 Rai of Chanote for 19,000 Baht, and The 25 Rai Tor bor ha, over the road was up for sale at 10.000 per Rai.

[thaiguzzi]

What kinds of acid or vinegar do y'all use on your farms? tried different ones?

Glenn,

we were recommended white vinegar, so went out and bought 5 x 4 .5 litre plastic cans of the stuff at 50 baht each. Disapointed, too weak and too slow, even upping the concentration markedly. Gone back to proper formic at 270 baht for a 5 litre plastic can. Has a red star on the label and funnily enough is called Red Star Nam Got. There are a couple of other well known brands sold locally (Bat - in a blue can and another one i forget) for similar money, but we stick with what we know, and like. Neat formic is not dangerous and will not burn you, unlike sulphuric which definetely will, and is nasty shit. That stuff they sell in brown glass bottles for 15-20 baht is straight sulphuric acid and is NASTY shit. Keep it well away from your trees, hands, eyes and nether regions. Highly unrecommended for wet cup and the long term health of your trees. Have you seen what that stuff does to concrete?!!

Mike.

[cobbler]

I was wondering where you had got to. Dam big enough to fish?

Yes ,workers have fish in it

I'd be fishing every day if it was mine. Before we settled here, we looked at a place, with a house on that for a relatively small amount would fix up into a nice house. It had an 1/2 rai pond on. Boy was I tempted even though it was Sor Por Kor The land came with 30 Rai of rubber, then the Sister in law offered us 3 1/2 Rai of Chanote for 19,000 Baht, and The 25 Rai Tor bor ha, over the road was up for sale at 10.000 per Rai.

Sounds like a great deal.By the way we planted another 400 prick kee gnoo yoday.I'm looking for a windmill for dry season..Might have to make 1

I'm not doing that watering can stuff ever again

[cobbler]

Yang farmers have a rally from Chumpon to Bangkok.Left Chumpon today and will arrive in Bangkok on Ffriday.Saw them here just now.Feel sorry for them.Waste of time.Just going to have to wait till she's out of office ,then things will pick up.Or maybe in her last year of gov ,then maybe she'll make a better deal.Trying to get votes next ellection.Not just5 Yang but coconut and pineaple and Rice farmers .She has killed all these farming people's incomes.

By the way no TV crews allowed .Gee I wonder why?

[SonnyWaxmo]

Hi Cobbler

This prick kee gnoo you talked about, have you planted them between rubber trees, or somwhere else?

Regards

Sonny

[cobbler]

Hi Cobbler

This prick kee gnoo you talked about, have you planted them between rubber trees, or somwhere else?

Regards

Sonny

Between the rubber trees.They don't go well in full sun/.Leaves go all curly.This is why they are 200 baht per kilo wholesale price in dry season and 90 to 100 baht per kilo in low times.They should be ready to pick chillis in february next year.Pickers are paid on a percentage of sale price from local middle men,which is less than price we will be selling them for at a main market.Our trees are spaced 3 meters apart and rows are 7 meters apart..We clear a strip down te center of the row and put 2 lines of chillis spaced 1 meter apart to allow pickers to walk down the center.We also have bananas down the center too.I can't see rubber prices improving any time in the next 2 to 3 years.So we like to make extra money.So far we have 2000 seedlings in the ground with another 3000 seedlings still in the nursery boxes. Really it's quicker and easier and the plants are tougher younger if you just plant the seeds straight into the cleared rows between the trees.Good if the soil is wet at time of planting..Really I'm tempted to fill the whole 20 rai with chillis between the trees,but not sure I can do it all.My wife is already working too hard.We will see what happens.