Rubber Trees

[CMFarang]

Thanx

Edited July 25, 2014 by CMFarang

[fezzy]

Hey CMfarang , welcome to the forum , I just bought 100 plants today , grafted 251 type , cost us 23 baht each and their around 70 cm tall , I can send you a picture tomorrow as there sitting in the back of my truck,it's dark outside and it's raining . I'm 1.5 hours south of you at Thung Saliam (Google it ) if you are willing to make the journey I can take you there .

But before you venture into this game , please read this forum from the start and you will be a lot wiser to what it takes to run rubber successfully , and what has changed over the years with the global market , different governments in Thailand , also costs associated to the first 7 years of non productivity and ongoing costs , what strains people are using and everyday questions .You'll also find out where we've gone wrong in the past.

Some guys on here will be reluctant to help out as most if not all of your question are answered in previous posts but most seem to be friendly guys and we share the highs and lows of this life we've chosen .

I was told the same thing way back when we didn't even have a Rubber Category allocated for us and it was scattered throughout the farming forum so it's a lot easier now . Take the time and start reading from the start , it's a good read bit like a novel and you will get to know the other guys from their past comments you'll be a lot wiser from it I assure you.

You can check out Youtube also ,fair bit of info with a few guys up here doing it. Jim was the man but I think he's back in Oz now .

.

All the best

Garry

Edited July 25, 2014 by fezzy

[cobbler]

Cmfarang . B careful wat ever u do . Dont expect to make money on wat u spend . We have been at this now for about 5 years . It was great , but that was before laos had millions of rai being tapped africa wasnt doing rubber and myanmar wasnt open either . We were getting up to 180 per kilo for sheet . Now its 50+ to 60 per kilo for sheet . We have put in 1000 namwa bananas 5000 chillis 100 avocado and long beens for daily beer money +mixed vegies to mix things up a bit .

Im not telling u dont do it but dont expect to make money like before , those days r gone . You will need to accept its just a hobby.

Its great fun we enjoy it . If we didnt mix our farming though , our 45 rai 3000 trees approximately of rubber wouldnt be enough for us now. Find something locals grow in your area . Grow that . Go to kings project inyour area they will tell you what grows best. Many things you can make money on more than rubber . If I was in your area I would grow avocado . Great for export . With the opening of the asian nations , you r in prime location for exporting to china for food. Just trying to give u options , not cut your dreams down . Depends wat u want to do . Make money ? Or just have a hobby ?

Best of luck .

Cheers Cobbler

Sent from my SM-T315T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited July 26, 2014 by cobbler

[thaiguzzi]

1. Sorry to put a downer on your project... but NO WAY would i be putting new rubber in now, in the year of our Lord 2014.

2. You are too late. You have missed the boat etc etc.

3. There is FAR TOO MUCH new rubber in SE Asia, 2-5 years old, not even ready for tapping for another few years. Up here in Isaan, it's ridiculous, they are still sticking it in, words fail me whenever i see new plants stuck in the ground.

4. There is already over supply / under demand. Check out Global Rubber Markets.

5. Prices are sh#it now, and will only get worse.

6. They will only get better if oil spikes to $150 per barrel, or WW III breaks out or there is a HUGE economic recovery in the US, EU and China.

7. I have 64 rai of rubber, this our 4th season of tapping on approx 38 of that. The rest will be opened this october.

8. If i had 2-4 year old trees in instead of 6.5 year old trees on that plantation, i'd pull the lot out.

9. Out of 3 plots, 2 are available for sale.

10. It is this bad. I have been owner/operator of my plantation for 10 odd years, with a lot of hard work and money put in by myself and my wife. I know what i'm talking about.

Regards,

Mike.

[thaiguzzi]

Re the above posts;

# The only reason the 3rd plot is not for sale is it is 20 rai, with my house and workshops on it, and the paperwork cannot now be sub divided.

# In the last 3 years, 3 million rai of NEW trees have been planted in 6 countries in SE Asia. Let alone Africa.

# In the last 2 years there has been an oversupply of around 500,000 tons in the world marketplace every year, ie the world produced 12 odd million tons of the stuff, but only needed 11 million odd.

# Add the two above items together and you can see it aint gonna add up in the future.

# 10 rai of rubber in 2014 is ok if it is a gift for the parents and they work it and get all the money ie 100%, they will still earn 3k a week as a couple (less expenses). But for younger people, they can earn a better wage in the city these days, especially if skilled. With the current low prices, finding quality workers ie tappers is a problem here, and in Malaysia.

# If i had 10 new rai now, and free water supply all year round i would do palm. If i had electricity to the 10 rai, i would have a bore well dug, and, as Cobbler suggested, do veggies.

# Whatever you do, if involved yourself ( the only way to do it - permanently on site) it will be hard work. There is no easy money in any farming, anywhere on this planet.

# Jim is still in Ubon, posting regularly on TD, on Isaan, farming and rubber threads. He got banned/banned himself here.

Mike.

[Mosha]

1st dry night for about 2 weeks, and our tappers wife goes into labour. Someone must really hate me.

[cobbler]

Yes mr thaiguzzi is on the mark . If anybody is planning on pumping water to farm palm oil , . Be sure to do your maths on the fuel and pump expenses 1st . As I think youll find its not worth it. Expenses will kill your profit. You will need incredible amounts of water . Unless u have a windmill .

Sent from my SM-T315T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[khwaibah]

Yes mr thaiguzzi is on the mark . If anybody is planning on pumping water to farm palm oil , . Be sure to do your maths on the fuel and pump expenses 1st . As I think youll find its not worth it. Expenses will kill your profit. You will need incredible amounts of water . Unless u have a windmill .

Sent from my SM-T315T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

or solar.. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/745867-solar-powered-waterwell/

[CMFarang]

Garry, Cobbler & Mike

Many thanks for your input and advice.

We have started our Date Palm trees, Rubber was phase '2' but I like the advice of avocado , and we are looking at a 5 year window, when we are 60ish, to reap any harvest and rewards.

Any suggestions and ideas of what might be a profitable crop in the next 5 - 10 years would be welcome, and I can start my research from there .

Definitely afraid of market surpluses and fluctuations, and I have been here long enough to see this happen the effects. Lychee comes to mind first.

Thai Dad has lots of land, and actually made a profit last year, first time in 5 years that has happened.

I've seen the scams he falls for, they promise him 50 Baht a Kilo for tomatoes, but they only pay 8 Baht when the crop comes in, due of course to over supply at the time.

I am looking for the longer term , retirement income, that is not to labor intense and is a bit of a gamble , not the gold rush of the day plant.

I have also started Horse Radish, and have keen interest in that , but the marketing ( which I can do ) will be an effort to deal with.

Highest Regards to all

Brian S.

Farmer in the making with mental breakdown expected as a result

[cobbler]

Yes , just keep an eye on the setting up costs, as u r going to be pumping large amounts of water . Also be carefull of the land u try to grow them on. As they will drown if on low lying area before they get established .you get all or nothing as far as rain goes up there . Mostly I see palm on good draining soil so as they dont drown there roots .

Sent from my SM-T315T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[cobbler]

If u grow avocado , again be sure u have good draining type soil , avocados are shochink in water . Dont like wet feet for more than 2 weeks at a time . Clay soil on low lying areas is not good . Dont laugh but bananas r a good income with little work. Best thing is take your wife and go talk to the local kings project about wat grows best in your area .

Best of luck cheers cobbler

Sent from my SM-T315T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[bantatnin]

I have someone looking for 10 days old cup rubber, he is talking about container loads per week. I am not too clued up in this subject. Where would be the best place to find it? And what is the going rate? I was made to understand that I need to take out about 20% water content from a 10 days old cup rubber?

[Mosha]

Not worth the effort or the smell. Cup rubber is straight from the trees but left to dry. You are expected to run around butibg it and then let it dry. It stinks like shit, flies like it. Depends where you are on the price, but 26-30 baht, is what you will pay. You need to check daily with the local depots. Then you sit with it. Male sure you are upwind. I'd orget it

[thaiguzzi]

Not worth the effort or the smell. Cup rubber is straight from the trees but left to dry. You are expected to run around butibg it and then let it dry. It stinks like shit, flies like it. Depends where you are on the price, but 26-30 baht, is what you will pay. You need to check daily with the local depots. Then you sit with it. Male sure you are upwind. I'd orget it

+1. Forget it.

Back in the days when cup rubber with no DRC check ie wet was sold at auction in Bung Khan for 90-100 baht per kg, the winning bidder ( i knew her) needed 25 mil plus (no typo!) in cash on that day. She probably made approx 75-90k profit for two days work. But she had shed loads of workers, trucks and her own depot. And had to find 25 mil every two weeks.

[thaiguzzi]

Garry, Cobbler & Mike

Many thanks for your input and advice.

We have started our Date Palm trees, Rubber was phase '2' but I like the advice of avocado , and we are looking at a 5 year window, when we are 60ish, to reap any harvest and rewards.

Any suggestions and ideas of what might be a profitable crop in the next 5 - 10 years would be welcome, and I can start my research from there .

Definitely afraid of market surpluses and fluctuations, and I have been here long enough to see this happen the effects. Lychee comes to mind first.

Thai Dad has lots of land, and actually made a profit last year, first time in 5 years that has happened.

I've seen the scams he falls for, they promise him 50 Baht a Kilo for tomatoes, but they only pay 8 Baht when the crop comes in, due of course to over supply at the time.

I am looking for the longer term , retirement income, that is not to labor intense and is a bit of a gamble , not the gold rush of the day plant.

I have also started Horse Radish, and have keen interest in that , but the marketing ( which I can do ) will be an effort to deal with.

Highest Regards to all

Brian S.

Farmer in the making with mental breakdown expected as a result

Good. You have listened to sound advice; stay out of rubber. If you have electricity, bore well, water tank - fruit and veggies are the way to go. Even Thais are now getting into hydroponics etc. The money some woman i heard about earning from basic salad lettuce in plastic tunnels done properly on a small plot of land was very thought provoking.

[thaiguzzi]

Re Palm; great ONLY if you have year round FREE access to water. No water in the dry season = crappy palm trees and crap output.

[cobbler]

Yes agree with the vegie idea. In an area of 10 meters x 10 meters we grow tua fuk yeow , long beens . My wife and I do it . We put in bamboo frames , simple stuff . 240 to 300 bart every second day . We pick them in the morning . Put them in little 15 or 20 bart bunches. Jump on the bike sell them to all the neighbours or shops who resell at a profit . Thats our beer money . Much better money than same area of yang . Have other vegies too .

Sent from my SM-T315T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[scotbeve]

We have started our Date Palm trees, Rubber was phase '2' but I like the advice of avocado , and we are looking at a 5 year window, when we are 60ish, to reap any harvest and rewards.

Any suggestions and ideas of what might be a profitable crop in the next 5 - 10 years would be welcome, and I can start my research from there .

Definitely afraid of market surpluses and fluctuations, and I have been here long enough to see this happen the effects. Lychee comes to mind first.

Thai Dad has lots of land, and actually made a profit last year, firs

I've seen the scams he falls for, they promise him 50 Baht a Kilo for tomatoes, but they only pay 8 Baht when the crop comes in, due of course to over supply at the time.

I am looking for the longer term , retirement income, that is not to labor intense and is a bit of a gamble , not the gold rush of the day plant.

I have also started Horse Radish, and have keen interest in that , but the marketing ( which I can do ) will be an effort63[/url]');

Cm farang,

I'm assuming that you and yours live somewhere in Chiang Mai. Been here longer than I'd like to admit ( but still love it here...). We've done a vast variety of ventures in the agri-biz. Rubber: take our advice, do it as a hobby - say 50 or 60 rai. Still have more land leftover and want to know what will be a good harvest in 5-10 yrs.??? That, my friend, is impossible to predict even if one has "ins" and "good contact" info. The best thing one can do is plant/ grow / raise a large variety of products. 5 rai of this, 5 rai of that, and so on....Try bottling water.... always a demand for that. Startup cost is maybe 2M baht.

Edited July 27, 2014 by scotbeve

[scotbeve]

Re: palm oil plantations in the north.... palm needs 1500mm of water minimum / year AND palm will not do well at an elevation higher than 300m above sea level.

[CMFarang]

Date Palm seem to do well in the north

Working on water supply and watering system farang style soon ?

[bantatnin]

Re Palm; great ONLY if you have year round FREE access to water. No water in the dry season = crappy palm trees and crap output.

I was told you also need to spend lots on fertilizers as well.

[cobbler]

I wouldnt b worried about the pui , but be sure u do your maths about watering . If its not windmill hmmm id b reconsidering .

Sent from my SM-T315T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited July 27, 2014 by cobbler

[Mosha]

Not worth the effort or the smell. Cup rubber is straight from the trees but left to dry. You are expected to run around butibg it and then let it dry. It stinks like shit, flies like it. Depends where you are on the price, but 26-30 baht, is what you will pay. You need to check daily with the local depots. Then you sit with it. Male sure you are upwind. I'd orget it

Note to self. Don't drink and type 555

[VNRubber]

To all those who have replied, thanks for your interests.

This is not a new product, so I am not looking for guinea pigs. It has been in use in Indonesia and Malaysia for the last 7 years, being marketed under different brand names by appointed distributors. The manufacturer is Malaysian, and I am marketing this under our own brand, Ultra.

The product has been put on trial by several users in Isaan, and so far the results are encouraging.

If anyone wants detailed I information, PM me and I will reply each one with brochure, technical information, lab test reports, video of our actual user's test result.

10-20% of rubber trees in Isaan have dry bark problem, not producing any latex. If you don't have any such trees, then congratulations. You have taken very good care of your trees.

FYI, I am not just sitting in my aircon officr trying to sell the product. I have visited users in Indonesia and Malaysia and done my due diligence. I have done onsite demos with plantation owners, talked to them about their problems with the trees and productivity etc.

Also, I am not expecting anyone to try a new product on all their trees. 5 trees will be enough to show results.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It'll be interesting to know the product you've got there...my production has been dropping...perhaps you can help...PM me...thanks...

[VNRubber]

I'm having 38 hectares of Rubber in Vietnam right now, 20 years old and production is on the slide so is the price. It's time for a dismantle and regrow...any advise on Palm trees? Have good access to water source, apparently they have just put a damp in operations near by so the surrounding area is now become a part of the reservoir. No flooding concerns, possibilities of veggie and fruit crops. Elevation is about 100 meters above sea level.

[fezzy]

Sold today boys, medium water content 30 Baht , abit better than 2 weeks ago with 26 and 28 baht, couple of extra beers for me and more dresses for the missus . Bahaha 5555555

[thaiguzzi]

I'm having 38 hectares of Rubber in Vietnam right now, 20 years old and production is on the slide so is the price. It's time for a dismantle and regrow...any advise on Palm trees? Have good access to water source, apparently they have just put a damp in operations near by so the surrounding area is now become a part of the reservoir. No flooding concerns, possibilities of veggie and fruit crops. Elevation is about 100 meters above sea level.

You cannot check production figures in the middle of a rainy season, even on an average. Wait till the cool season or Oct - Jan and then re-check. Good trees should have at least another 10-15 years life left in them.

[VNRubber]

I'm having 38 hectares of Rubber in Vietnam right now, 20 years old and production is on the slide so is the price. It's time for a dismantle and regrow...any advise on Palm trees? Have good access to water source, apparently they have just put a damp in operations near by so the surrounding area is now become a part of the reservoir. No flooding concerns, possibilities of veggie and fruit crops. Elevation is about 100 meters above sea level.

You cannot check production figures in the middle of a rainy season, even on an average. Wait till the cool season or Oct - Jan and then re-check. Good trees should have at least another 10-15 years life left in them.

Thanks for the feedback, but due to the high intensity of harvesting during the last few years plus poor initial cares at the beginning, we are left with only around 60% of the land with good trees. I was going to keep harvesting for 5 more years then dismantle, but with the falling NR price, I have to look into other alternatives. Another reason now is that there are now power lines run across my land and I have to cut off about 3.5 ha, I'm thinking of growing banana under the power lines. All ideas are welcome.

[cobbler]

VN rubber . Good idea nam wa are easy . Or you can go to the kings project in your area and ask about the new strain of banana . They r amazing .

Sent from my SM-T315T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[thaiguzzi]

Cobbler; no monarchy in VN

VN, check out what price you will get for lumber on 20 year old trees. May be crap, may be very good.