carlthailand Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 What I don't understand here Brit is I seem to remember a recent thread where you offered advice to a 15 yr old boy on the subject of illegally aquiring drink and what bars not to go to if you want to avoid the police. Not only condoning the crime but you was offering help to this potential criminal on how not to get caught. How can you be so strict in your belief in Thai laws in this thread but actively encourage lawbreaking by a minor in another? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> BKK - I'd rather not have a 15yr old in a bar drinking w/me and it would ill advised for him to do so. I believe the thread you carelessly mention - we did point out what might happen if he is caught. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You may not rather have it, but it has to be said you did advise him on how to commit his crime and not get caught. I don't understand why your strong belief in Thai law didn't come into play then. I would have expected you to have immediately condoned the criminal act rather than help him with it. Thats probably illegal in itself isn't it? I just don't follow your reasoning really? Do you believe all Thai laws should be followed 100% and those that don't should get punished to the full extent of the law? Because if so, helping a minor in Thailand aquire alchohol illegally doesn't seem quite right does it now. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> BKK - quite simple one is a mega-serious offense while the other is not. I actually learned smth in that thread myself - didnt know one could buy alcohol for a minor and it was legal for them to drink it. It's being in the venue which is the illegal part. Anyways don't get wound up if I don't class alcohol and x as the same sort of thing. The whole point of this thread - you get caught doing smth illegal in thailand or anywhere else in the world, you better be willing to accept the punishment. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well what can I say. Seems like you have just justified the others side of the arguement. Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopeless Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 GLASTONBURY, GATECRASHER, CREAMFIELDS, GLOBAL GATHERING to name a few places you can openly take drugs without people GRASSING on you (the point i was trying to make before). mind you I have smoked drugs infront of security and they didnt bat an eyelid, can I act like a cool kid now? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wow, you took drugs in front of a security guard. You ARE cool You said people can freely take drugs in clubs where you are from. I argued that you cannot do that in a club in the UK (club being a licensed premises) because it will get shut down. This does happen a lot. If you mean that no-one grassed you for taking drugs then of course that is extremely unlikely. However if you deal to someone there and they get busted there is a good chance they will grass you. BTW at Glastonbury 2005, Avon & Somerset police recorded 205 drug offences, at Creamfileds there were 45 arrests (vast majority for drug offences). I know that is a small percentage of those who attended, but the security and police prioritise. If they see someone smoking a joint they may turn a blind eye so they can look for dealers. As I mentioned I have worked in a club where drugs were widely used. Sometimes we turned a blind eye and sometimes we couldnt. I am not contradicting myself at all, but I obviously have to spell it out for you, heroin, coke, meth and other addictive compounds including alcohol are the ones that do the damage. EVERY single ecstasy user I have ever met, and seen on www.blulight.nu have NEVER STOLEN TO BUY ECSTASY NEVER BEEN ADDICTED TO ECSTASY NEVER BEEN VIOLENT OR HURT ANYONE ON ECSTASY + NEVER HAD AN ADVERSE EFFECT ON ECSTASY Most of the guys I know using ecstasy are students or in well paid jobs <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You said that heroin and coke ruin lives, but then said that ecstacy, like anything if used sensibly, will not wreck your life. So using heroin and coke sensibly will not wreck your life if we follow your logic. Equally ecstacy will wreck your life if not used sensibly. You may never have met anyone who has stolen to buy E and are students or people in good jobs, but that doesnt mean to say it is the way it is. And your mates may not be in well paid jobs for long if they get caught. E can be psychologically addictive, hence why many people take it week in week out, and I have met people who take E in the week also. Is that not a bit of a problem? And dont compare it to alcohol. Going having a couple of beers 3/4 times a week is not the same as taking E's 3/4 times a week. If you are on benefits and you want to go clubbing then where do you get the money from? You steal or deal that's how. You have never had an adverse effect from ecstacy, but that does not mean it does not happen. People have died. It is rare but true. Ecstacy is not a drug that increases aggression like alcohol can, in fact it is the complete opposite. I have seen fights in the club I worked in and they have been on pills. Admittedly there was usually booze involved too and they were dodgy guys usually, but it does happen. Ecstacy, because of its illegal status, can only be sold (and technically bought) by criminals. It is very lucrative and so attracts some particularly nasty criminals. I stated earlier that the E trade in Manchester was controlled by some very vicious, dangerous people from Salford, who caused mayhem in the area because of their power and money. So do not pretend that people do not get hurt because of ecstacy. And we all know that legalising is never going to be an option so dont counteract with that argument. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> have to make myself extra clear as a few of you are twisting my words: I agree the guys in Salfod like you said are bad guys, who use violence to get what they get. But guy this thread is about is a harmless individual, no doubt a decent guy , PROBABLY thought the thai clubs were like the clubs back home in the UK where noone will grass. Little did this guy know that wasnt the case. Yes, the police will do you if they catch you but among other civilians, noone will give a dam. The club owner WILL NOT want to get the police involved if drugs are being dealt on his premises as hel_l get closed down. Heroin, believe it or not can be used safely if used in moderation. The point I was making is that ecsatsy in moderation is not half as harmful as its made out to be. The people who are take E in excess are those with addictive personalities, my friends brother had that problem, he was taking E about 3 times a week. Your point about the fighting on E, again it isnt valid as you say booze was involved and they are most probably violent individuals, therefor it is not the drug making them violent, is it? Ive been going to superclubs for nearly 8 years, I dont mean the shitholes like icon and diva, i mean crasher, godskitchen cream etc I have never in my whole time witnessed any vilence at all. I estimate about 2/3 of the crasher crowd are using E in there. EVERY time I hit the town at the weekend (which isnt often anymore) violence is rife, your guarenteed to see a fight if you go out on a saturday night in the UK, all thanks to cheap beer. Its sickening to see and its enough to make me want to stay in and watch TV You say "So do not pretend that people do not get hurt because of ecstacy" Im not saying people dont, thats another matter all together with the debate 'if E was legal and not controlled' This thread is about the the thrill seeker now inprisoned, not gangsters. One can argue that wearing a leather jacket or wearing make up tested on animals is cruelty to animals, thats not what this thread is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odowdchr Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Along with booze, it apparently mows down all defenses <{POST_SNAPBACK}> American right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard10365 Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 Not in the too distant future....15 to 20 years from now, these people will be free (if they survive) and you guys will be still talking about it on Thai Visa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlRedEyes Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 Wonder how long a thread on Mary Jane will become, if E is so popular... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantilley Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 By the way, and I'm aware that this is VERY off topic so forgive me, but what's the most amount of pages you've ever seen in a Thaivisa topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patex Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 (edited) By the way, and I'm aware that this is VERY off topic so forgive me, but what's the most amount of pages you've ever seen in a Thaivisa topic? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Here,you can read a real fightthread, over more than 100 pages! http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=20045 This one is even harder, over 200! http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=43632 Edited October 22, 2005 by Patex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogoso Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 [quote I agree the guys in Salfod like you said are bad guys, who use violence to get what they get. But guy this thread is about is a harmless individual, no doubt a decent guy , PROBABLY thought the thai clubs were like the clubs back home in the UK where noone will grass. Little did this guy know that wasnt the case. ______________________________________________________________________ Pure <deleted>, how do you know the character of the individual? how do you characterize an individual that sells illegal drugs anywhere in the world as a decent guy? Maybe he is a decent sort of person, maybe not. the the fact still remains he knowingly was selling an illegal substance to make a large profit. Maybe it was just to finance his vacation, but does that matter. To say he was so ignorant as to not understand that the drug laws were different in other countries is laughable. ______________________________________________________________________ quote Yes, the police will do you if they catch you but among other civilians, noone will give a dam. The club owner WILL NOT want to get the police involved if drugs are being dealt on his premises as hel_l get closed down. Heroin, believe it or not can be used safely if used in moderation. The point I was making is that ecsatsy in moderation is not half as harmful as its made out to be. ______________________________________________________________________ Sure heroin can be used in moderation. Why just last month I had a shot of morphine administered at a local trauma hospital. It did have the function of relieving pain due to having discovered a neo natal copperhead attached quite briefly to my index finger. And the vicodin I took home with me came in quite handy for pain, but only for the next day as I quit taking them. I personally don't like the feeling of disjointness they give me. Its a feeling I can understand of how you'd like to have that same feeling again and again. I think your moderation statement falls apart as I don't know many drug users, but those I've talked to at the VA hospitals I've been in, have thought their usage would be an infrequent delight only to become a constant nightmare. I can't recall any of them saying how heroin made them financially sucessful, or kept their interaction with the police to a minimum, or how healthy they were coping with hepititis or HIV. The fact you view drugs as nothing more than recreational and normal is fine with me, as you must live with your choices. I personally would prefer that drugs were legalized with a few caveats. No govermental money (ie my tax money) could be used to treat any illiness gained by the using of drugs. The death penalty if you sell to minors, very long sentences for driving under the influence (alcolhol as well) would be few of the laws to go with legalization. I'd also give the number of deaths caused by drug usage as a nightly stat on the news. Four people died in London tonight from overdoses or drug related illness, as a reminder to those outthere listening that there are consequences of drug usage. _________________________________________________________________________- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinLOS Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 The fact you view drugs as nothing more than recreational and normal is fine with me, as you must live with your choices. I personally would prefer that drugs were legalized with a few caveats. No govermental money (ie my tax money) could be used to treat any illiness gained by the using of drugs. The death penalty if you sell to minors, very long sentences for driving under the influence (alcolhol as well) would be few of the laws to go with legalization. I'd also give the number of deaths caused by drug usage as a nightly stat on the news. Four people died in London tonight from overdoses or drug related illness, as a reminder to those outthere listening that there are consequences of drug usage. Well we agree on something.. Of course those hospitals must not treat anyone with liver damage or lung issues associated with drinking or smoking right (I genuinely agree with this if it becomes a level field) ?? But to take that to ubsurity how far does self infliction get stopped ?? Obiesity is a self inflicted problem (in 99% of cases).. So do they get no medical ?? Or how about the footballer who screws his knees up ?? Or the guitarist with tedonitus ?? Of course these are extremes but where doe the line between self inflicted harm get drawn and it stops becomeing societies fault. At some point you have to go to totally private healthcare where the insurers profile every aspect of your life and make you pay accordingly (hel_l thats fine with me.. I have no medical cover and pay my hosptial bills as I injur myself.. I do exactly what you are proposing).. Also those news stats each night must include all alchohol related deaths in the same measure, eg if your going to count an ecstacy death as one where someone high on a drug falls down a stair and injurs himself equally all alchohol 'accidents' must be equally covered.. I would bet dollars to doughnuts you would have a minum 10:1 ratio of achohol injuries / fights / domestic disturbances to 'drug' use.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopeless Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 (edited) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/right] Edited October 25, 2005 by hopeless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogoso Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 quote So you are saying all dealers are the exactly the same, with the stereotypical violent stigma associated with them? And that they must be involved in all sorts of crime bla bla? I really dont understand where you are comming from, but if you are under the impression all dealers are evil why dont you give MR NICE a read by howard marks. Or how about you go to one of these clubs ive mentioned, when you get offered ecstasy (which is what this topic is about) why dont you have a conversation with the guy, and see how evil he is. I would suggest you learn a little more before catogarising ALL drug dealers as evil. --------------------------------------------------------------- I don't believe I said all dealers were evil, but I cannot see where a lifetyle of quick and easy money doesn't eventually lead to violence. As illegal entrepenuers I would imagen there would be an element within that society that would take an even easier route to the cash by removing the assets or cash from the dealer by stealth or force. In either case the reaction to such occurances would be to find some means to protect the assests. either a safer place of storage, or a means to protect one from the theft, which could be muscle or perhaps firearms. In any case the escalation of protection, could produce an escalation of force. I also may be mistaken but this thread is about a briton recieving a jail term for the selling of drugs, in this case ecstasy, not about the glorification of ecstasy. I will not be trying the drug, ever! I also have no desire to read stories glorfying the drug trade, if thats what your aforementioned Mr. Nice is about. I once again will reinterate the lad got what he deserved for selling his drugs in a society that proscribes their usgae with harsh sentences. And for learning a little more about drug dealers, I learned alot about the cocaine culture, its dealers, trafficants, its effect on the overall society while living in Colombia. My mother in law was a member of their Congress and was given the pluma or plata option. She took neither and didn't run for reelection. ________________________________________________________________________ You said, "I think your moderation statement falls apart as I don't know many drug users, but those I've talked to at the VA hospitals I've been in, have thought their usage would be an infrequent delight only " How does it fall apart, would you care to explain? So you have spoken to a few guys who got hooked, I clearly stated drugs CAN be used in moderation, including smack, thats all I said. I think you should read my posts carefully before jumping in there Why dont you people listen _______________________________________________________________________ About listening.I could say the same, as my posts have concerned the sentence the brit recieved while all yours want to glorify drug usage. I think those who have to distort their realities to exist are pitiful, except I can't find any pity within my heart for them. I'm not argueing the differences of drugs, I'm simply saying he (the brit) knowingly broke the law, knew there could be consequences, and now he lies in the bed he made of drug dreams. If he still wants to do drugs while in jail, from what I understand he can if he has the money. Send him some money, the heroin will do no harm if he does" it in moderation" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnvic Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 This is going nowhere, are we all finished? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinLOS Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Nope not quite.. I think those who have to distort their realities to exist are pitiful, except I can't find any pity within my heart for them. That includes alchohol right ??? I think many of the poets, musicians, artists throughout history have been a lot more interesting and creative than simply 'pitiful' but I wish you luck and hope you enjoy your N'sync, squeaky clean, non drug using, non pitiful artists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gentleman Scamp Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Etc... etc... good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnvic Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Yeah, its finished. Next cv /closed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.png.3b3332cc2256ad0edbc2fe9404feeef0.png)
.thumb.jpg.bc523c85a8d558dbc282dca7a2e602c9.jpg)
Recommended Posts