kuffki Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Hamas is well known for speaking out of both sides of the mouth. "Palestinian propagandists can say and do anything they please without concern for the truth, in the belief that if they repeat it often enough it will simply become the truth." Jack Schwartz Yes, Supremacists will also tell the Palestinians that they don't even exist. Btw. Who is Jack Schwartz? Well thats because they never did! can you show otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkokeddy Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Somehow I can't see Israel jumping up and down for joy at this proposal. Because the Supremacists don't want share the land but keep it for the chosen ones only. Why would Israel share the land? was it historically different?or because Hamas or you said so? Why to share? Because that the deal if you a tolerant and open minded person and want to live in peace with people of an other ethic/cultural/religious background. Apartheid and ethnic segregation belongs to the dust bin of history. Is that so difficult to understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuffki Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Somehow I can't see Israel jumping up and down for joy at this proposal. Because the Supremacists don't want share the land but keep it for the chosen ones only. Why would Israel share the land? was it historically different?or because Hamas or you said so? Why to share? Because that the deal if you a tolerant and open minded person and want to live in peace with people of an other ethic/cultural/religious background. Apartheid and ethnic segregation belongs to the dust bin of history. Is that so difficult to understand? As it turns out, it is hard to understand for you, BUT Since Palestinians are tolerant and open minded and want to live in peace, whats the problem with recognizing Israel, which mind you has already been recognized and established for longer then word Palestine existed. And since you are an open minded person, how on earth would you even try to defend or justify latest statement of Hamas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkokeddy Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) Why to share? Because that the deal if you a tolerant and open minded person and want to live in peace with people of an other ethic/cultural/religious background. Apartheid and ethnic segregation belongs to the dust bin of history. Is that so difficult to understand? As it turns out, it is hard to understand for you, BUT Since Palestinians are tolerant and open minded and want to live in peace, whats the problem with recognizing Israel, which mind you has already been recognized and established for longer then word Palestine existed. And since you are an open minded person, how on earth would you even try to defend or justify latest statement of Hamas? Q: Is Israel willing to share? A: No. Israel is only for one specific ethnic/religious/cultural group but not open for another. According to people like you the other group don't even exist. So much for tolerance. Edited May 12, 2011 by bangkokeddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuffki Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 It seems the world can close this chapter from now on, after all HAMAS is ready to recognize a Palestinian state based on the 1967 borders or any part of Palestine- and this is all that matters, case closed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuffki Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) Why to share? Because that the deal if you a tolerant and open minded person and want to live in peace with people of an other ethic/cultural/religious background. Apartheid and ethnic segregation belongs to the dust bin of history. Is that so difficult to understand? As it turns out, it is hard to understand for you, BUT Since Palestinians are tolerant and open minded and want to live in peace, whats the problem with recognizing Israel, which mind you has already been recognized and established for longer then word Palestine existed. And since you are an open minded person, how on earth would you even try to defend or justify latest statement of Hamas? Q: Is Israel willing to share? A: No. Israel is only for one specific ethnic/religious/cultural group but not open for another. Q. How many Arabs live in Israel? A. Over 1 000 000 , ONE Million Q. What % is that of total population? A. 25% Q. How many jews live in any Arab country? A. Hardly any Q. What % of the population is it? A. Less than even 0.1% Q. Is Bangkokeddy trolling asking this kind of questions considering the REAL facts? A. Absolutely Being existant and having a state are 2 very different things. Gypsy's do exist, yet they never had a country or a capital Edited May 12, 2011 by kuffki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkokeddy Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 It seems the world can close this chapter from now on, after all HAMAS is ready to recognize a Palestinian state based on the 1967 borders or any part of Palestine- and this is all that matters, case closed Yes, sooner or later will there be a State of Palestine, recognized and accepted by the world. hopefully with (East)-Jerusalem as capital. So you can stop now telling them that Palestinians don't exist. Time to go home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckizuchinni Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Why to share? Because that the deal if you a tolerant and open minded person and want to live in peace with people of an other ethic/cultural/religious background. Apartheid and ethnic segregation belongs to the dust bin of history. Is that so difficult to understand? As it turns out, it is hard to understand for you, BUT Since Palestinians are tolerant and open minded and want to live in peace, whats the problem with recognizing Israel, which mind you has already been recognized and established for longer then word Palestine existed. And since you are an open minded person, how on earth would you even try to defend or justify latest statement of Hamas? Q: Is Israel willing to share? A: No. Israel is only for one specific ethnic/religious/cultural group but not open for another. According to people like you the other group don't even exist. So much for tolerance. Have you been to Israel? It is populated by not only Jews, but Christians and Muslims, too (20% of Israel is made up of Arab Israelis). And up until the rocket attacks and bombings started, there was free movement and plenty of jobs for everyone. I have also seen the way that the Israeli Army can treat Palestinians, and it is sometimes not pretty. But that is in response to the attacks on them (I think it is overkill, but I am not the one defending the place, either) But to write that Israel is only for one specific ethnic/religious/cultural group is really ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkokeddy Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 But to write that Israel is only for one specific ethnic/religious/cultural group is really ridiculous. That is Israels right to exist as the Jewish state. Are you questioning that? Hamas does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckizuchinni Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 But to write that Israel is only for one specific ethnic/religious/cultural group is really ridiculous. That is Israels right to exist as the Jewish state. Are you questioning that? Hamas does. If you are referring to Olmert's demands, then there is even lots of controversy withing Israel on what that means. Most Israelis consider it a case of core values and traditions, not of religious doctrine where rabbis act as ayatollahs and non-Jews have no rights or are not considered true Israelis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkokeddy Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 But to write that Israel is only for one specific ethnic/religious/cultural group is really ridiculous. That is Israels right to exist as the Jewish state. Are you questioning that? Hamas does. If you are referring to Olmert's demands, then there is even lots of controversy withing Israel on what that means. Most Israelis consider it a case of core values and traditions, not of religious doctrine where rabbis act as ayatollahs and non-Jews have no rights or are not considered true Israelis. I am referring to the whole Zionist setup of Israel as the state specially for only one specific ethnic/religious/cultural group. A ideological "right of return" for some people who live since generations in Brooklyn? Yes. A right of return for some Palestinian refugees who lived just a generation before where is now Israel? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckizuchinni Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 But to write that Israel is only for one specific ethnic/religious/cultural group is really ridiculous. That is Israels right to exist as the Jewish state. Are you questioning that? Hamas does. If you are referring to Olmert's demands, then there is even lots of controversy withing Israel on what that means. Most Israelis consider it a case of core values and traditions, not of religious doctrine where rabbis act as ayatollahs and non-Jews have no rights or are not considered true Israelis. I am referring to the whole Zionist setup of Israel as the state specially for only one specific ethnic/religious/cultural group. A ideological "right of return" for some people who live since generations in Brooklyn? Yes. A right of return for some Palestinian refugees who lived just a generation before where is now Israel? No. Sorry, but your comment is just plain wrong. Even if you can find some religious Zionists who would call for that, the facts of the matter are that Israel has never implemented anything like that, nor do a majority of Israelis support that. Once again, have you ever been to Israel? Have you observed the ground truth? Without the Arab Israelis, both Muslim and Christian, the economy would fall apart. THey make up a huge percentage of the worker force. You can argue if it is fair that they occupy the lowest economic rung, and I might listen to you. But to go on with your views that Israel is only for one group, well, you are just wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkokeddy Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Sorry, but your comment is just plain wrong. Even if you can find some religious Zionists who would call for that, the facts of the matter are that Israel has never implemented anything like that, nor do a majority of Israelis support that. I am not wrong about the law of "return". I am not wrong about Israels concept of Israel as the Jewish state. That is that what the majority of Israelis support - Zionism. There are a few post-Zionists in Israel, like Uri Avnery or journalists like Gideon Levy, who take a different position, but that is a tiny minority. There are also Israeli-Arab members in the Knesset, a few, guess how much respect they get from the majority of Israelis. ------------------ ‘Marriage to an Arab is national treason’ Recent poll reveals steep rise in racist views against Arabs in Israel; many participants feel hatred, fear when overhearing Arabic, 75 percent don’t approve of shared apartment buildings Over half of the Jewish population in Israel believes the marriage of a Jewish woman to an Arab man is equal to national treason, according to a recent survey by the Geocartography Institute. The survey, which was conducted for the Center Against Racism, also found that over 75 percent of participants did not approve of apartment buildings being shared between Arabs and Jews. Sixty percent of participants said they would not allow an Arab to visit their home. ... http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3381978,00.html ------------------ MK Zahalka: Racist laws target Arab sector During heated Knesset debate ahead of vote on three controversial bills, Arab MK says 'we'll ask international community for protection.' PM: Israel only place where Arab lawmakers allowed to criticize state Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Arab Knesset Member Jamal Zahalka (Balad) exchanged harsh words regarding the Nakba bill and other pending laws during a heated Knesset plenum meeting Tuesday evening. "Today the Knesset will pass three racist laws," Zahalka said, referring to three highly controversial laws which are expected to pass late Tuesday night. ... http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4046297,00.html ------------------ Spreading racism and xenophobia The national intimidation campaign against foreigners must be stopped from the top down. By Gideon Levy The disease is malignant and metastatic, spreading with alarming speed. From Safed to Eilat, through Tiberias and Bnei Brak, one city after another is declaring: I am racist. Renting apartments to Arab students is forbidden in Safed and Tiberias, migrant workers are being thrown out of their apartments in Bnei Brak, where their electricity and water is cut off as well. In Eilat, "black market labor" isn't wanted. This is no longer just the bad old hatred of Arabs, in the name of fear and security; it's now become distilled, violent xenophobia as well. ... http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/spreading-racism-and-xenophobia-1.328333 ------------------ In few days is Nakba Day, guess then will will get more news specially on this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuffki Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Sorry, but your comment is just plain wrong. Even if you can find some religious Zionists who would call for that, the facts of the matter are that Israel has never implemented anything like that, nor do a majority of Israelis support that. I am not wrong about the law of "return". I am not wrong about Israels concept of Israel as the Jewish state. That is that what the majority of Israelis support - Zionism. There are a few post-Zionists in Israel, like Uri Avnery or journalists like Gideon Levy, who take a different position, but that is a tiny minority. There are also Israeli-Arab members in the Knesset, a few, guess how much respect they get from the majority of Israelis. ------------------ 'Marriage to an Arab is national treason' Recent poll reveals steep rise in racist views against Arabs in Israel; many participants feel hatred, fear when overhearing Arabic, 75 percent don't approve of shared apartment buildings Over half of the Jewish population in Israel believes the marriage of a Jewish woman to an Arab man is equal to national treason, according to a recent survey by the Geocartography Institute. The survey, which was conducted for the Center Against Racism, also found that over 75 percent of participants did not approve of apartment buildings being shared between Arabs and Jews. Sixty percent of participants said they would not allow an Arab to visit their home. ... http://www.ynetnews....3381978,00.html ------------------ MK Zahalka: Racist laws target Arab sector During heated Knesset debate ahead of vote on three controversial bills, Arab MK says 'we'll ask international community for protection.' PM: Israel only place where Arab lawmakers allowed to criticize state Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Arab Knesset Member Jamal Zahalka (Balad) exchanged harsh words regarding the Nakba bill and other pending laws during a heated Knesset plenum meeting Tuesday evening. "Today the Knesset will pass three racist laws," Zahalka said, referring to three highly controversial laws which are expected to pass late Tuesday night. ... http://www.ynetnews....4046297,00.html ------------------ Spreading racism and xenophobia The national intimidation campaign against foreigners must be stopped from the top down. By Gideon Levy The disease is malignant and metastatic, spreading with alarming speed. From Safed to Eilat, through Tiberias and Bnei Brak, one city after another is declaring: I am racist. Renting apartments to Arab students is forbidden in Safed and Tiberias, migrant workers are being thrown out of their apartments in Bnei Brak, where their electricity and water is cut off as well. In Eilat, "black market labor" isn't wanted. This is no longer just the bad old hatred of Arabs, in the name of fear and security; it's now become distilled, violent xenophobia as well. ... http://www.haaretz.c...phobia-1.328333 ------------------ In few days is Nakba Day, guess then will will get more news specially on this issue. and yet still over 1 000 000 arabs live in Israel making it over 25% of the population compared to almost non existent population of Jews living in the Arab states. Better yet, Christians are not even counted in Israel yet prosecuted, killed and burned in Arab states. People are shot for demonstrating, let alone being allowed to practice any other religion then Islam, in the Arab states And after all that, you will continue to insists you are right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnvic Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 We're off topic again, recognition, not right of return is the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Maybe you need to read the OP before commenting. Hamas refuses to recognize Israel Yes. I read the OP. Its because the Supremacists don't want share the land but keep it for the chosen ones only. Time to recognize that. Exactly!!! I'm glad I'm not the only one here who sees that. Fight the power I say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuffki Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Perhaps you could give an example of a country that is sharing the land, but not to go off topic, country in the middle east will be great! Maybe you need to read the OP before commenting. Hamas refuses to recognize Israel Yes. I read the OP. Its because the Supremacists don't want share the land but keep it for the chosen ones only. Time to recognize that. Exactly!!! I'm glad I'm not the only one here who sees that. Fight the power I say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Exactly!!! I'm glad I'm not the only one here who sees that. Fight the power I say! As oppose to taking the simple step of recognizing Israel's right to exist, which is a precursor to any peace. But no you would prefer fight instead. The haters gonna hate aren't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dananderson Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) I stated here at the beggining of the Arab spring that it would be smart for Israel to get ahead of these events. Instead they keep building settlements. They continue to use shell companys to buy Palestinian land..( They authorised an election long ago and still backpeddle as to democracy in arab countries when they don't like the results.) As long as the stubborn old guard remains in charge I suspect that a real peace may only be accomplised by the future generations as they are young now and not filled with anomosity or mired in preconceived,, archaic thought. :jap: Edited May 13, 2011 by dananderson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkokeddy Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Exactly!!! I'm glad I'm not the only one here who sees that. Fight the power I say! As oppose to taking the simple step of recognizing Israel's right to exist, which is a precursor to any peace. But no you would prefer fight instead. The haters gonna hate aren't they? Don't take his comment out of the context. Recognizing who? Those who tell the Palestinian refugees that they don't exist and don't have any rights to return? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnvic Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Nobody is telling the Palestinians they don't exist. Drop this nonsense and move on already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) There is no such thing as a "Palestinian" people until they make peace and get their own country and then they will legitimately call themselves whatever they want. When this whole thing started, they were mostly illegal immigrants from Arab countries who declared war on the Jews who legally bought land from the owners. Edited May 13, 2011 by Ulysses G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
councilor Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 There is no such thing as a "Palestinian" people until they make peace and get their own country and then they will legitimately call themselves whatever they want. When this whole thing started, they were mostly illegal immigrants from Arab countries who declared war on the Jews who legally bought land from the owners. rubbish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) Why don't you try to find a legitimate historical link to prove it? No one has been able to so far. The Israel-haters just post complete nonsense that they can not provide evidence for. Edited May 13, 2011 by Ulysses G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dananderson Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) Ancient history has little bearing to the current facts on the ground. Israel should stop all settlemnet buildang and recognize the will of those that wish for an enduring peace. The alternative is not in their best interests given the ever changing mid-east, geopolitical events currently unfolding on the ground. If Syria falls then Lebanon will be a game changer.. Does Israel want that? Israel is outside and in open violation of the UN on many issues,chaba valley to name just one. They are outside the IAEA as well. Israell can no longer dictate all too rigid terms and should come to the peace table now. We will see. Edited May 13, 2011 by dananderson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I wonder whether the so called 'right of return' would be so nostalgically yearned for if said land was 'returned' to the state it was in prior to the Jews purchasing large areas of land and developing it. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Arabs_in_Palestine.html For many centuries, Palestine was a sparsely populated, poorly cultivated and widely-neglected expanse of eroded hills, sandy deserts and malarial marshes. Mark Twain, who visited Palestine in 1867, described it as: "...[a] desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds-a silent mournful expanse....A desolation is here that not even imagination can grace with the pomp of life and action....We never saw a human being on the whole route....There was hardly a tree or a shrub anywhere. Even the olive and the cactus, those fast friends of the worthless soil, had almost deserted the country." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) Ancient history has little bearing to the current facts on the ground. You mention peace partners "that wish for an enduring peace". Hamas and the PLO are partners, so exactly who would that be? Edited May 13, 2011 by Ulysses G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkokeddy Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 There is no such thing as a "Palestinian" people until they make peace and get their own country and then they will legitimately call themselves whatever they want. When this whole thing started, they were mostly illegal immigrants from Arab countries who declared war on the Jews who legally bought land from the owners. So are there real Palestinians or just so called "Palestinians" who are in fact illegal immigrants from somewhere else? Q: What is an illegal immigrant and what makes them illegal? Q: And in that light: What is an "Israeli"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Israel was recognized by the UN. The Arabs turned down the same deal for a country that would have been called Palestine and then declared war on Israel and lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkokeddy Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I wonder whether the so called 'right of return' would be so nostalgically yearned for if said land was 'returned' to the state it was in prior to the Jews purchasing large areas of land and developing it. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Arabs_in_Palestine.html'>http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Arabs_in_Palestine.html For many centuries, Palestine was a sparsely populated, poorly cultivated and widely-neglected expanse of eroded hills, sandy deserts and malarial marshes. Mark Twain, who visited Palestine in 1867, described it as: "...[a] desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds-a silent mournful expanse....A desolation is here that not even imagination can grace with the pomp of life and action....We never saw a human being on the whole route....There was hardly a tree or a shrub anywhere. Even the olive and the cactus, those fast friends of the worthless soil, had almost deserted the country." I am confused kuffki and Ulysses G. keep telling me that there was never a Palestine so in what Palestine was Mark Twain then? Btw. good choice of a source http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org . So balanced, unbiased and accurate. I like what they say about the Irgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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